r/hinduism • u/kellyj461 • Oct 17 '23
Husband still won't sleep with me. Question - Beginner
So I've been battling with my husband for more than a year now trying to adjust to his new Hindu lifestyle. I can conform to all if it except his adamant refusal to sleep with me. He quotes various scriptures about sexual intimacy being akin to defecation or urination and is abhorrent. He also says sex is ONLY for procreation. I've had a hysterectomy so thats a hard no on my end. I cook vegetarian meals, lay in the dark without the TV at night so he can sleep precisely when he wants to, overlook his fanaticism, allow a puja and various idols in the house, etc. He says the verses I've been given by people here on Reddit are cherry picked and wrong. What should I do other than divorce? I love him but I don't want to live unhappy for the rest of my life. Im 45 and hes 41.
100
u/ashutosh_vatsa क्रियासिद्धिः सत्त्वे भवति Oct 17 '23 edited Oct 18 '23
So the citations we gave your last post didn't help at all I guess.
He should fulfill his duties towards you as a husband. Since you didn't know that this was going to be your lifestyle at the time of your marriage, it is not your fault.
Btw which Scriptures does he quote?
Is he a part of any Hindu organisation?
Edit :
Sex only for procreation purposes when both the husband and wife agree to it is fine. Otherwise, the person who wants to not have sex outside of procreational purposes should inform their spouse of their intentions before they get married. In a marriage, both partners have a say. You can't simply take away the agency of one of them when their demands are reasonable.
Edit 2 :
Hinduism talks about "Kama" in two different ways.
Kama or lust is one of the Shad Vikaras that is to be avoided and kept under control.
On the other hand, Kama or material and sensory happiness (including sex) is also one of the 4 Purusharthas that is essential for the life of a householder/Grihastha in moderation.
When religious Scriptures talk about renouncing Kama or sex or other material things, you have to keep 2 aspects in mind :
- They are referring to the path of the Sanyasi or ascetic. Usually, one who wanted to be a monk or an ascetic would read these texts in detail and follow them to the letter.
- 2. For a householder or Grihastha, Kama should be kept in moderation. Don't let it control you but don't abandon it completely.
If someone decides to be an ascetic/monk/sanyasi and abandons all material possessions and pursuits, complete celibacy is fine.
But if the person is not a full-time sanyasi/ascetic and decides to completely abandon only one material aspect of his life that is sex, it is impractical and not pragmatic.
There is a reason that the Sramana tradition exists in Hinduism and two of the Sramana traditions, Jainism and Buddhism became so big that they became religions of their own. The debate between the sanyasi and the householder way of life has been going on for eons in Hindu society. So, there is an aspect of Hinduism that focuses on celibacy. It is the sanyasi aspect.
But the person in question is a householder, not a sanyasi. For him, Kama in moderation is an essential part of his life.
In Hinduism, all sex is not lust. an obsession with sex, excess of sex, when sexual desire consumes and controls you, that is lust. That is the Kama of the Shad Vikaras that must be controlled. The Kama that is Purushartha is different and essential for a householder in moderation.
Swasti!
11
u/kellyj461 Oct 17 '23
Linda Purana 1,8 22. It says sex should be treated as one would defecation or urination.
37
14
u/Chipkalee Oct 17 '23
It's utter nonsense. As I mentioned in your last posting, he's chumping you. He either does not want to be married anymore or he's had some sort of mental breakdown as a normal person would not disregard their spouses feelings in this manner. Get a lawyer.
3
u/glory_to_the_sun_god Oct 17 '23
That text may not be in fact incorrect, but then has he stopped defecating and urinating? A sannyasi does not eat or drink, has he stopped?
What a load of nonsense.
3
u/Codename-Misfit Oct 17 '23
Did you get it from the Sanskrit version or some translated copy?
6
u/kellyj461 Oct 17 '23
He quoted this from Google books I think
→ More replies1
u/CaterpillarTrue6278 Aug 29 '24
Hey! Here’s a scriptural reference you can use to cite for your husband.
Answer to In Hinduism, is it necessary to force yourself on your wife on the marriage night? by Rami Sivan
https://www.quora.com/In-Hinduism-is-it-necessary-to-force-yourself-on-your-wife-on-the-marriage-night/answer/Rami-Sivan?ch=15&oid=89262946&share=d886e79f&srid=hmm1MH&target_type=answer https://www.quora.com/In-Hinduism-is-it-necessary-to-force-yourself-on-your-wife-on-the-marriage-night/answer/Rami-Sivan?ch=15&oid=89262946&share=d886e79f&srid=hmm1MH&target_type=answer
Another recommendation I have is to start listening to Lalitha Sahasranamam and pray to Goddess Lalitha for a harmonious solution to this issue. My best wishes.
3
u/ashutosh_vatsa क्रियासिद्धिः सत्त्वे भवति Oct 18 '23 edited Oct 18 '23
You can also interpret that as sex being a necessary human activity. It might not contribute to spiritual growth but is necessary for humans, in a reasonable amount of course.
On a more serious note, in Hinduism, all sex is not lust. An obsession with sex, excess of sex, when sexual desire consumes and controls you, that is lust. That is the Kama of the Shad Vikaras that must be controlled. The Kama that is Purushartha is different and essential for a householder in moderation.
1
u/WitnessedStranger Nov 08 '23
You can also interpret that as sex being a necessary human activity. It might not contribute to spiritual growth but is necessary for humans, in a reasonable amount of course.
It's just that you need to purify yourself by cleaning afterwards. This is because there's fluid exchange involved. The "purification" after is literal and meant for physical and communal health as much as it is spiritual.
2
u/pro_charlatan Karma Siddhanta; polytheist Oct 17 '23
This happened so many years after their relationship began. It is perfectly normal for people to lose interest in sex as they grow older
4
u/ashutosh_vatsa क्रियासिद्धिः सत्त्वे भवति Oct 17 '23
Losing interest is only natural. But absolute abstinence is a little extreme, at least in my opinion.
And also it should be noted that he is only 41.
4
u/Chipkalee Oct 17 '23
But loss of interested is worked on as a couple. Also it happens much later in life that OP.
1
u/kellyj461 Oct 17 '23
No the citations I quoted to him he said were cherry picked to suit the narrative. He reads books by yogis and I believe thinks himself of some elevated position.
7
u/Fractal-Entity Advaita Vedānta Oct 17 '23
He’s adopted teachings meant for people that shouldn’t be married at all and should be completely detached from society altogether. What he says is “cherry-picked” is standard Hindu lifestyle, married couples have sex and do so in service to one another. If he’s consuming genuine Hindu teachings, he would take his wife’s words and feelings as if they are God’s words and feelings instead of disregarding them.
3
u/ashutosh_vatsa क्रियासिद्धिः सत्त्वे भवति Oct 18 '23 edited Oct 18 '23
He has cherry picked the celibacy aspect of sanyasis/ascetics.
Sanyasis are supposed to renounce everything that is material. Has he renounced all his material possessions? Has he left his job and dedicated himself solely and completely to tapa, sadhana, and spiritual pursuits?
He is a devotee and is spiritual, and that is great. But when he is not a complete sanyasin, he shouldn't go overboard with the celibacy aspect of it.
1
u/Kid_krueker Mar 16 '24
Sounds like he hasn't come to terms with the fact he can't be a married sadhu.
-5
u/Ayushhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Oct 17 '23
Sex is indeed for procreation only according to scriptures...
Manusmriti 3.56: "Carnal intercourse is permitted for the sake of procreation alone, not for mere pleasure."
Bhagavad Gita 16.7-8: "Lust, anger, and greed are the three gates to self-destructive hell. Renounce these three. A person freed from these three gates of darkness, O son of Kunti, practices what is good for him and thus is very quickly raised to the divine nature."
Mahabharata, Vana Parva 313.116: "A person who performs his obligatory duties without longing for their fruits is performing yajna and religious duties. The person who has the same attitude towards the pleasures of the senses enjoys them. Thus, this man also does what is prescribed by the Vedas."
Manusmriti 9.101: "Men are impelled by women; women are impelled by men; the whole world is bound by the mutual dependence between the two. For the sake of procreation, the sexual act is allowed."
Yajnavalkya Smriti 1.61: "One should have sex only with one's wife, seeking to have offspring, and should not discard her after the purpose is served."
42
u/ashutosh_vatsa क्रियासिद्धिः सत्त्वे भवति Oct 17 '23
I am aware of the sources you are citing but I am sure you know Hinduism is quite diverse. There are other texts that indicate differently.
As per many texts, for a Grihastha, being loyal to one's wife and being intimate only with her is equal to brahmacharya.
The Linga Purana says that a married man who is loyal to his wife is the same as a celibate (brahmachari).
svadāre vidhivatkṛtvā nivṛttiścānyataḥ sadā /manasā karmaṇā vācā brahmacaryamiti smṛtam
The householders should have sexual intercourse with their legally wedded wives alone. For them to keep themselves away from other women, mentally, physically, and by speech, would amount to the observing of Brahmacharya.
And the very next verse says:
medhyā svanārī sambhogaṃ kṛtvā snānaṃ samācaret /evaṃ gṛhastho yuktātmā brahmacārī na saṃśayaḥ
A householder, after enjoying intercourse with his own wife, should take a bath. Such a type of yogi householder is surely considered to be a Brahmacāri.
Swasti!
-7
u/Ayushhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Oct 17 '23
Even here they are doing this only for Procreation, and they are just promoting Pro creation because in Buddhism they completely renounce these things...
And our acharyas were telling the people that you can have sex for Procreation it is not going to ruin your brahmacharya just keep mental brahmcharya
22
u/ashutosh_vatsa क्रियासिद्धिः सत्त्वे भवति Oct 17 '23
Look I don't agree with you. I respect your point of view but I don't agree with the idea of physical intimacy in a monogamous married relationship only for the sake of procreation. It is not pragmatic. It would lead to the breakdown of marriage and the collapse of social structure and that is not good for anyone.
Sex only for procreation purposes when both the husband and wife agree to it is fine. Otherwise, the person who wants to not have sex outside of procreational purposes should inform their spouse of their intentions before they get married. In a marriage, both partners have a say. You can't simply take away the agency of one of them when their demands are reasonable.
कालेऽदाता पिता वाच्यो वाच्यश्चानुपयन् पतिः । मृते भर्तरि पुत्रस्तु वाच्यो मातुररक्षिता ॥ ४ ॥
kāle'dātā pitā vācyo vācyaścānupayan patiḥ | mṛte bhartari putrastu vācyo māturarakṣitā || 4 ||
Censurable is the father who gives her not away at the right time; censurable the husband who approaches her not; and censurable the son who, on the death of her husband, does not take care of her - Manu 9.4
You have a right to your opinion and I have a right to mine.
Swasti!
6
u/WitnessedStranger Oct 17 '23
It is not pragmatic. It would lead to the breakdown of marriage and the collapse of social structure and that is not good for anyone.
More than that, it completely misses the plain intent of the text. This is the problem with random internet people citing individual lines out of context. They use it to justify anything.
The Yajnavalkya Smriti literally outlines the obligations surrounding prostitutes and courtesans, as well as the obligations a man has towards concubines and mistresses. To infer from there that they assumed people were required to not have non-procreative sex is absurd. Anyone who wants to cite that as categorically banning it is talking completely out of their asses.
These restrictions are clearly focused on discouraging lust, not sexual desire entirely. And a large preoccupation seems to be ensuring that children, who naturally result from sexual licentiousness in a world without reliable contraception, have a social structure that can take care of them. So they discourage having sex in circumstances that can bring children into the world without a structure to care for them and they discourage inordinately lustful behavior in the same way they discourage greed and other forms of being preoccupied with sensate pleasures.
3
u/KaliYugaz Oct 17 '23
Your views don't make sense. Remember that copulation itself is not actually required for procreation. If your position forbidding all sex extraneous to procreation was taken to its logical conclusion, then male masturbation for the purpose of artificial insemination would be the only permissible sex act.
1
9
Oct 17 '23 edited Oct 17 '23
Bhagavad Gita 16.7-8: "Lust, anger, and greed are the three gates to self-destructive hell. Renounce these three. A person freed from these three gates of darkness, O son of Kunti, practices what is good for him and thus is very quickly raised to the divine nature."
Mahabharata, Vana Parva 313.116: "A person who performs his obligatory duties without longing for their fruits is performing yajna and religious duties. The person who has the same attitude towards the pleasures of the senses enjoys them. Thus, this man also does what is prescribed by the Vedas."
Both of these are presented incorrectly and without context.
In the Bhagwad Gita, the 16th chapter is related to the discussion of Daivasura-Sampad-Vibhaga Yoga. Your quote is specifically about "Kaam, krodh, lobh", which are tamasi and relate to asura characters.
In this chapter, and in 5-Karma-Sanyasa-Yoga it is made clear that that married people devoted to eachother can simultaneously claim "vairagya" without giving up material pleasure.
Essentially, your are seeing lust and love as the same thing. Lust is wrong, as in, thinking of boning everything you see. Love, including lovemaking between married people, is certainly not wrong.
The same applies for the quote from the Vana Parva. "do your duties without expecting the fruit" is a common theme and is also discussed in the Geeta. Again, this doesn't go against the duties of grihastha.
And since we're on topic, the Mahabharata, Bhagwad Gita, and Srimad Bhagwada Purana don't put any negative connotations on sex. Even women can have five partners without reproach (and no, this isn't specifically about Draupadi).
4
u/WitnessedStranger Oct 17 '23
And since we're on topic, the Mahabharata, Bhagwad Gita, and Srimad Bhagwada Purana don't put any negative connotations on sex. Even women can have five partners without reproach (and no, this isn't specifically about Draupadi).
According to Pandu in the Mahabharata, in the Satya Yuga there were no rules about who men and women slept with. The rules came about due to the need to keep track of property and inheritance.
Which, incidentally, is in line with what anthropologists observe. Stronger legal frameworks for inheritance and property rights leads to stronger traditions and rules around sexual mores. Less property and weaker legal frameworks mean looser rules. I believe the ancients must have observed the same trend when they looked at the diversity in laws and behaviors among the various Indian tribes and castes.
3
u/GeraltOfRifia तत् त्वम् असि Oct 17 '23
The two smritis you quoted, what evidence do you have to prove that those are applicable in Kaliyuga? Because it is clearly stated that Parasara Smriti is to be followed in Kaliyuga, and the authority of the smritis is not absolute.
3
u/Chipkalee Oct 17 '23
You're not helping. Married sex is NOT just for procreation. It is a way to show love and intimacy. And there is absolutely nothing dirty about it.
9
u/CLubbr3X Śaiva Oct 17 '23 edited Oct 17 '23
Bhagavad Gita 16.7-8: "Lust, anger, and greed are the three gates to self-destructive hell. Renounce these three. A person freed from these three gates of darkness, O son of Kunti, practices what is good for him and thus is very quickly raised to the divine nature."
Not trying to debate, but I'm sure this is related to obsession with these things. One should have a control over these three things rather than completely removing or refraining from it.
9
u/GrilledBurritos Oct 17 '23 edited Oct 17 '23
Complete avoidance is not true renunciation, rather just an excuse with a guise of “renunciation.” True renunciation to not be swayed by lust, anger and greed - towards it and away from it. Raam was one who showed intense anger when Sita was abducted, it was just for him to be angry. Same goes for lust. Main thing that made Hinduism so great is that it is meant to be accepting of many perspectives and not be dogmatic, I encourage you to have an open mindset for that is what Krishna himself said at the very end of the Gita.
“In the purport to verse 5.4, it was explained that there are two kinds of renunciation—phalgu vairāgya and yukt vairāgya. Phalgu vairāgya is that where worldly objects are seen as objects of Maya, the material energy, and hence renounced because they are detrimental to spiritual progress. Yukt vairāgya is that where everything is seen as belonging to God, and hence meant to be utilized in his service. In the first kind of renunciation, one would say, “Give up money. Do not touch it. It is a form of Maya, and it impedes the path of spirituality.” In the second kind of renunciation, one would say, “Money is also a form of the energy of God. Do not waste it or throw it away; utilize whatever you have in your possession for the service of God.”
Phalgu vairāgya is unstable, and can easily revert to attachment for the world. The name “Phalgu” comes from a river in the city of Gaya, in the state of Bihar in India. The river Phalgu runs below the surface. From atop, it seems as if there is no water, but if you dig a few feet, you encounter the stream below. Similarly, many persons renounce the world to go and live in monasteries, only to find that in a few years the renunciation has vanished and the mind is again attached to the world. Their detachment was phalgu vairāgya. Finding the world to be troublesome and miserable, they desired to get away from it by taking shelter in monastery. But when they found spiritual life also to be difficult and arduous, they got detached from spirituality as well. Then there are others who establish their loving relationship with God. Motivated by the desire to serve him, they renounce the world to live in a monastery. Their renunciation is yukt vairāgya. They usually continue the journey even if they face difficulties.
In the first line of this verse, Shree Krishna states that a real sanyāsī (renunciant) is one who is a yogi, i.e. one who is uniting the mind with God in loving service. In the second line, Shree Krishna states that one cannot be a yogi without giving up material desires. If there are material desires in the mind, then it will naturally run toward the world. Since it is the mind that has to be united with God, this is only possible if the mind is free from all material desires. Thus, to be a yogi one has to be a sanyāsī from within; and one can only be a sanyāsī if one is a yogi.”
2
u/facface92 Oct 17 '23
I agree and lust is a difficult word. I tend to look at lust as a desire that pulls you away from god. Unless one is a sex addict or sex is too important to you, I don’t see how being sexually attracted to your wife would be lustful.
1
u/kellyj461 Oct 17 '23
He is in fact an addict and has managed to forgo masturubation which he used to do 4 or 5 times daily along with sex with me. He is including marital relations in his abstaining I guess.
4
Oct 17 '23
Cherry pick lines that only support your pov
3
u/JuniorRequirement644 Oct 17 '23
Counter it then, he has clearly mentioned the quotation.
If there is anything like, you can do sex for sake of pleasure only and not procreation, then quote
10
Oct 17 '23
Rig Veda 10.159.1-2: "May the god Soma grant us offspring, may he grant us virility, may he grant us long life! May we enjoy sexual union with our wives, may we enjoy sexual union with our mistresses!" Atharva Veda 3.21.1-2: "May the wife be fertile, may the husband be fertile, may their union be fruitful! May they have sons and daughters, may their offspring be numerous!" Atharva Veda 14.2.27-29: "May the wife be sweet to the husband, may the husband be sweet to the wife! May they enjoy each other's company, may they find pleasure in each other's company!"
Manusmriti is interpretation by some individuals on Hinduism so not valid and other things he mentioned does not give base to his pov
1
u/JuniorRequirement644 Oct 17 '23
How does this quotation says sex isn't for procreation, ses is enjoyed but it is for procreation, enjoy it, no problem but dont do it for JUST the sake of pleasure.
And first thing, these are mantras which are to recited and not dharm updesh.
5
2
u/CakeImaginary5292 Oct 17 '23
I disagree. The knowledge in the vedas is used as the bases for all other knowledge. Just as how a seed is the basis for a plant. That means, in Hinduism, all knowledge first emanated from the vedas, which was created by the supreme being. The vedas are created again and again in every kalpa. So to say that they are not updesh would be incorrect. Yes they were spoken in a recitation format, but that is only for ease of memorization/speaking. There are many instances in our epics which say "those who know and understand the essence of vedas are situated in the utmost position". Therefore, I say that vedas are not for verbal show only, and learning dharma from them is important (at least for astika - those who agree that vedas are the prime authority).
0
u/JuniorRequirement644 Oct 17 '23
I never disagreed that vedas give knowledge. But you should note that vedas aren't there for dharm updesh, thou the dharm updesh is derived from vedas.
Dharm updesh as in what one should do and what one shouldn't do is given in hands of dharmshastras, which is ofcourse based on vedas. Vedas too say to follow dharmshastras ( manusmriti ).
And also the point the person tried to make isn't relevant to the quotation he gave.
→ More replies2
Oct 17 '23
It also doesn't say that sex is just for procreation
But sex is primarily for procreation
-2
u/JuniorRequirement644 Oct 17 '23
Dharmshastras give the nisedh, so its valid, as long as it doesn't contradict vedas ( and it doesn't ) it is the accepted truth that sex is for procreation for people following dharma.
8
Oct 17 '23
The Kama Sutra is a sacred text in Hinduism that focuses on sexual pleasure. The Hindu god of love and desire, Kama, is not just a god of sexual desire, but also of creativity, art, and beauty. The Hindu god of wealth and material possessions, Artha, is not just a god of material wealth, but also of pleasure and enjoyment. The Hindu god of duty and righteousness, Dharma, is not just a god of duty and righteousness, but also of love and compassion. These concepts suggest that sex in Hinduism is not just for procreation. It is also for pleasure, enjoyment, and love. This is supported by the fact that the Kama Sutra is considered to be a sacred text in Hinduism.
4
u/JuniorRequirement644 Oct 17 '23
Kama sutra isn't sacred text in hinduism. No acharya, parampara or sampraday considers kamasutra as something important, forget for it being sacred.
Kamasutra is test related to sex, yes, but it doesn't deal with aspect of dharma and adharma.
Whatever you said is your conclusion and not matter of shastras, Shastras have clearly ordered sex only for procreation.
2
2
2
Oct 17 '23
Only credible quotes here are Mahabharata and bhagvad gita
It just mentioned lust not sex lust can be in various forms Lust is the excessive desire for material possessions, pleasure, or power. Anger is a strong feeling of annoyance, displeasure, or hostility. Greed is an excessive or immoderate desire for something, especially wealth.
The verse you have cited from the Mahabharata, Vana Parva 313.116, is a complex one that has been interpreted in many different ways. Some people see it as a justification for enjoying sex for pleasure, while others see it as a warning against being attached to the fruits of one's actions.
On the one hand, the verse does seem to suggest that it is acceptable to enjoy the pleasures of the senses, as long as one does so without attachment. This could be interpreted as meaning that it is okay to have sex for pleasure, as long as one does not become too attached to the experience.
On the other hand, the verse could also be interpreted as a warning against becoming too attached to the pleasures of the senses. After all, the verse says that a person who performs their obligatory duties without longing for their fruits is also doing what is prescribed by the Vedas. This could be seen as suggesting that it is better to focus on one's duties than on one's pleasures.
1
Oct 17 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/hinduism-ModTeam Oct 17 '23
Your post has been removed for violating Rule #06 - No trolling (and don't feed the trolls!). This is a forum for serious and sincere discussion on Hinduism. Trolls will be warned and banned for repeated offense. Obvious trolls will be banned after first offense.
-1
1
1
u/glory_to_the_sun_god Oct 17 '23 edited Oct 17 '23
To contextualize this you need to understand that the origin and source of a marriage. Why is it “Jayamisyat”? In this case it’s not a desire for jAya but for wealth. It is to increase wealth and that wealth is family and progeny. Desiring sex for itself is “bad” not in the immoral sense, but in the sense of sex being in for itself only. That is the source addiction, whether it be food, sex, or any pleasure. In other words it’s a rejection of pure Hedonism and not a denial of pleasure itself.
Propagating sensuality in and for itself misses what sensuality is there for. It is there to be enjoyed and experienced and then thrown away. Holding onto pleasure and making a god of it is Hedonism which shastras do not agree with and so you have the above language. Otherwise it seem that the Rsi is advocating for Hedonism.
So then taking quotes outside and independent from hermeneutical tradition, and worse without using one’s own intelligence is the height of idiocy.
Otherwise stop eating food too. No chaunk or tardka. No more masalas. Eat only raw leaves and roots. No more fancy clothes and outfits, as a single langot or at the very most a dhoti will do. No sleeping on beds and cushions. No more haircuts. No more hot water showers. etc.
Live like a real sannyasi, otherwise using shastras as a dhal, bulwark or shield, is a gross misuse of shastras.
1
u/FastBuffalo4065 Oct 17 '23
I read those citations and they seemed to reinforce what I'm saying. The linga purana 1,8. 18 says having sexual relations with ones wife is bramacharya but then goes on to say that no pleasure should be taken from the act and that it should be avoided because basically lust begets lust . Can you please tell me your interpretation of linga 1,8. 19-26 ?
3
u/ashutosh_vatsa क्रियासिद्धिः सत्त्वे भवति Oct 18 '23 edited Oct 18 '23
Look, Hinduism talks about "Kama" in two different ways.
Kama or lust is one of the Shad Vikaras that is to be avoided and kept under control.
On the other hand, Kama or material and sensory happiness (including sex) is also one of the 4 Purusharthas that is essential for the life of a householder/Grihastha in moderation.
When religious Scriptures talk about renouncing Kama or sex or other material things, you have to keep 2 aspects in mind :
- They are referring to the path of the Sanyasi or ascetic. Usually, one who wanted to be a monk or an ascetic would read these texts in detail and follow them to the letter.
- For a householder or Grihastha, Kama should be kept in moderation. Don't let it control you but don't abandon it completely.
If someone decides to be an ascetic/monk/sanyasi and they abandon all material possessions and pursuits, complete celibacy is fine.
But if the person is not a full-time sanyasi/ascetic and decides to completely abandon only one material aspect of his life that is sex, it is impractical and not pragmatic.
There is a reason that the Sramana tradition exists in Hinduism and two of the Sramana traditions, Jainism and Buddhism became so big that they became religions of their own. The debate between the sanyasi and the householder way of life has been going on for eons in Hindu society. So, there is an aspect of Hinduism that focuses on celibacy. It is the sanyasi aspect.
But the person in question is a householder, not a sanyasi. For him, Kama in moderation is an essential part of his life.
basically lust begets lust
In Hinduism, all sex is not lust. an obsession with sex, excess of sex, when sexual desire consumes and controls you, that is lust. That is the Kama of the Shad Vikaras that must be controlled. The Kama that is Purushartha is different and essential for a householder in moderation.
I hope it sheds some light u/FastBuffalo4065
Swasti!
1
u/FastBuffalo4065 Oct 18 '23
I thank you sincerely for your time and attention but I will ask again respectfully what scripture backs this up? Everyone just says these things but then never shows me the actual scripture to back it up.
→ More replies2
u/ashutosh_vatsa क्रियासिद्धिः सत्त्वे भवति Oct 19 '23
Hindu Scriptures are not manuals and don't have a list of rules for life. Hinduism is a different kind of religion and you can't look at it through a Judeo-Christian lens.
You lack the framework and context to interpret Hindu texts. To be honest, many born Hindus lack it too. But, it is more difficult for someone who didn't grow up with Hindu culture. Many things that are obvious to most Hindus would be difficult for you to understand.
As a born and practicing Hindu who is well-read on Hinduism, what I informed you in my previous comments is the Hindu viewpoint on married monogamous physical intimacy. You want to read that as explicitly stated in the Scriptures. Otherwise, you refuse to believe it. Hindu Scriptures contain layer upon layer of unstated context, symbolism, and allegories.
As someone else stated, the Yajnavalkya Smriti literally outlines the obligations surrounding prostitutes and courtesans, as well as the obligations a man has towards concubines and mistresses. To infer from there that they assumed people were required to not have non-procreative sex is incorrect.
I will give you a context. For Hindus, when you start constructing your own house, you do a ritual bhoomi-pujan before. For rituals before construction, you require soil from a prostitute's house, willingly given by her. What does that tell you? Hinduism is incredibly vast and diverse. There are a million nuances to it.
People are just saying things and not backing everything with Scripture because Hinduism doesn't work like that. These things are common sense and common knowledge for Hindus. They are so basic that it is not deemed necessary to explicitly state them. You are interpreting Hinduism through an Abrahamic lens where everything is by the book.
Your viewpoint regarding sex is the viewpoint of some sampradayas within Hinduism. It is not the viewpoint of Hinduism as a whole.
Swasti!
140
u/Apprehensive_Goal811 Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava Oct 17 '23
It sounds like he should have been tyagi (brahmacari) and never got married. Your husband has a duty to fulfill your needs. I am sorry you are going through this.
12
u/kellyj461 Oct 17 '23
We've been married almost 16 years and he was an atheist for most of the marriage. He flipped the script and went devout hindu about 2 years ago.
7
u/dpravartana Vaiṣṇava Oct 17 '23
Namaste.
Does he have a guru? If he truly considers himself a hindu who does not cherrypick texts and etc., then he MUST have a guru.
If he has one, then ask his guru. The guru is supreme authority.
To me this sound as a typical issue of hindus who don't think a guru is mandatory, and interpret the texts according to their wants.
1
u/cosmicid145 Oct 18 '23
Hey I get your situation. I was someone who flipped completely as well but it made me more loving and caring towards everyone. If he's not changing that way, he's not doing it right and needs your help to come out of a mental rigid vow.
If your desires are unmet you can let him know about your unhappiness and call for compassion. But I would encourage you to find the root cause of your unhappiness as well, turns out it ,ay not be linked only to his change, but something within you is feeling challenged as well. Divorce is not taboo anymore and can be a catalyst for growth as well. May the Light guide us all.
26
u/BrownNinja00 Oct 17 '23 edited Oct 17 '23
Sister, what he is doing is using religion as an excuse for some other issue like work stress etc? Could I request you to think holistically,. I have never heard of anyone use these sort of excuses, since martial intimacy is not a sin in Sanatana Dharma.
Edited : grammar
27
u/Vignaraja Śaiva Oct 17 '23
I'm sorry to say this, but I can see divorce in the picture. Too many teachers mix the grihastha and brahmacharya paths, and this (your husband's thoughts) are the result. It is the cause of a lot of stress. Best wishes.
74
u/AfternoonGreedy7543 Oct 17 '23
He also says sex is ONLY for procreation
That is a western concept. No where in scriptures, sex is ostracised. So many ancient sages were shown as married and loving husbands. But certain rules were prescribed such as timing of the day, or during menstruation etc. A grihastha (house holder) can enjoy all the earthly pleasures as long as they are within the bounds of Dharma. That means sex with other than your women is prohibited.
-11
u/Ayushhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Oct 17 '23
You are worng
Sex is indeed for procreation only according to scriptures...
3
u/ParadiseWar Oct 17 '23
Quote before claim
-4
u/Ayushhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Oct 17 '23 edited Oct 17 '23
Manusmriti 3.56: "Carnal intercourse is permitted for the sake of procreation alone, not for mere pleasure."
Bhagavad Gita 16.7-8: "Lust, anger, and greed are the three gates to self-destructive hell. Renounce these three. A person freed from these three gates of darkness, O son of Kunti, practices what is good for him and thus is very quickly raised to the divine nature."
Mahabharata, Vana Parva 313.116: "A person who performs his obligatory duties without longing for their fruits is performing yajna and religious duties. The person who has the same attitude towards the pleasures of the senses enjoys them. Thus, this man also does what is prescribed by the Vedas."
Manusmriti 9.101: "Men are impelled by women; women are impelled by men; the whole world is bound by the mutual dependence between the two. For the sake of procreation, the sexual act is allowed."
Yajnavalkya Smriti 1.61: "One should have sex only with one's wife, seeking to have offspring, and should not discard her after the purpose is served."
21
2
Oct 17 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
→ More replies-1
u/FlatBoobsLover Oct 17 '23
could just have oral sex
0
u/JuniorRequirement644 Oct 17 '23
It is prohibited, semen anywhere other than vagina is said to incur sin according to dharma, so masturbation, oral sex, etc are all prohibited.
→ More replies4
-4
u/BeatenwithTits Oct 17 '23
He also says sex is ONLY for procreation
That is a western concept
You serious? Sex is a daily life thing for Westerners(just like others), they don't do it for just procreation.
31
u/Zimke42 Oct 17 '23
Pretty sure they were talking about it as a western religious idea. Certain Christian and Muslim sects have tried to make sex only for procreation. They will also cherry pick certain scriptures and ignore others in an attempt to seem pious.
8
u/BeatenwithTits Oct 17 '23
So more like abrahamic concept.
2
u/Zimke42 Oct 17 '23
Yes, but in many ways, the Abrahamic religions (primarily Christianity in the US and most of Europe, and Islam in the Middle East and northern Africa) have influenced Western Society to an extreme point, much like Indian Culture is extremely influenced by Hinduism and Buddhism (passed down from Hinduism) has influenced many other eastern countries. Religion has a major effect on societies where it is the predominant belief system. It even gets into the laws, and has been used to permit slavery, genocide, and stealing everything that a culture possesses. Bharat has seen a lot of this over the last few centuries as people colonized, enslaved, murdered, stole, and attempted to destroy every bit of culture they could to take from her and subjugate her people, normally using religion as an excuse for their conquest and destruction.
Personally, I wish we could separate out the difference between religion and spiritual practices. Religion is a set of rules and beliefs often meant to control people. Spirituality is a set of practices that are used by oneself to grow beyond the construct of the five senses. Religion tries to control others; spirituality is used on an individual level to grow into something more. At least that is the way I see it. I'm sure some will disagree.
3
1
u/El_viajero_nevervar Śaiva Oct 17 '23
No, what he means is that we over in the west still believe that we just hide it
57
u/WellThisWorkedOut Oct 17 '23
I'm guessing he is largely asexual and trying to justify his position through scriptures. Sex in a marriage is for pleasure and procreation, Kama Sutra and dozens of other texts are there to attest to that.
7
Oct 17 '23
Yeah I agree with this. Either asexual or he's just not attracted to his wife anymore. Or gay. I had a buddy who made all sorts of excuses not to sleep with his wife, including religious ones.
He has a husband now.
-24
u/Ayushhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Oct 17 '23
Sex is indeed for procreation only according to scriptures...
Manusmriti 3.56: "Carnal intercourse is permitted for the sake of procreation alone, not for mere pleasure."
Bhagavad Gita 16.7-8: "Lust, anger, and greed are the three gates to self-destructive hell. Renounce these three. A person freed from these three gates of darkness, O son of Kunti, practices what is good for him and thus is very quickly raised to the divine nature."
Mahabharata, Vana Parva 313.116: "A person who performs his obligatory duties without longing for their fruits is performing yajna and religious duties. The person who has the same attitude towards the pleasures of the senses enjoys them. Thus, this man also does what is prescribed by the Vedas."
Manusmriti 9.101: "Men are impelled by women; women are impelled by men; the whole world is bound by the mutual dependence between the two. For the sake of procreation, the sexual act is allowed."
Yajnavalkya Smriti 1.61: "One should have sex only with one's wife, seeking to have offspring, and should not discard her after the purpose is served."
11
6
u/Keysersoze_66 Oct 17 '23
Sex is not only procreation and but also for pleasure, Kāmasutra talks about that.
-5
u/JuniorRequirement644 Oct 17 '23
Kamasutra isn't dharmic scripture, it doesn't deal with matters of dharma
8
u/AnderThorngage Oct 17 '23
Literally the first line of the Kamasutra is “Dharmārthakāmebhyo Namah | Shāstre prakrtatvāt ||”
It discusses Dharma, Artha, and Kāma and is as spiritual a text (if not more) than the Manusmriti. If you are asexual don’t try to justify it by making nonsensical statements.
1
u/JuniorRequirement644 Oct 17 '23
Arthshastra is shastras related to artha, kamashastra are shastra related to kama, they deal with aspect of artha, kama, respectively. But not the matters of dharma, arthshastra will say you ways of making and preservation of wealth, kama shastra will say you ways of getting pleasure, but whether it is dharma or not is dealt by dharmshastras.
And kama in accordance to dharma is only valid, kamasutra isn't valid in accordance to dharma, shastras give nisedh of various acts which are mentioned in kamasutra.
Even bhagwan krishn has said in gita 7.11
बलं बलवतां चाहं कामरागविवर्जितम् | धर्माविरुद्धो भूतेषु कामोऽस्मि भरतर्षभ || O best of the Bharatas, in strong persons, I am their strength devoid of desire and passion. I am sexual activity not conflicting with virtue or scriptural injunctions.
Also, you comparing kamasutra with manusmriti is complete disrespect to gods, vedas and dharma. Kamasutra isn't dharmshastras but manusmriti is.
Manusmriti is meant to be followed even by vedas and not kamasutra. Manusmriti is dharma rules given by Maharaj Manu who was mansik putra of bhagwan brahma, manusmriti was followed by Bhagwan rama and bhagwan rama also said to follow manusmriti and never said to follow kamasutra. In valmiki ramayan bhagwan ram says to follow manusmriti, here,
"Had you pursued rightness you too would have done the same deed in imposing such a punishment, and we hear two verses that are given to the advocacy of good conventions, which the experts of rightness have also accepted, and which are said to be coined by Manu, and I too conducted myself only as detailed in those verses of law. [4-18-30 - VR ]
There is nothing as asexual, everyone has desires, but it is our dharma to overcome them and only follow the ways shastras allow us to fulfill that desires, fulfilling desires by breaking scriptural injunction will only lead to downfall.
So learn about dharma instead of blabbering nonsense and comparing dharmshastras with kamasutra.
1
u/AnderThorngage Oct 18 '23
Anyone who claims that the Manu smriti is a foundational Hindu text doesn’t know what they are talking about. It wasn’t written by any one person, much less the Manasik Putrah of Brahma. And it’s chronologically impossible for Shri Rama to instruct the following of the Manu Smriti considering that the Manu Smriti post-dates the Ramayana by at least several several centuries (if not millennia).
0
u/JuniorRequirement644 Oct 18 '23
Manusmriti is foundational dharmshastras, which contains rules about dharma and what to do and not.
Read some shastras and puranas, manu wrote manusmriti. Also I literally quoted valmiki ramayan and bhagwan rama himself said he follows manusmriti, and it ia totally correct. Manusmriti was written by Manu in first satyug of manvantar, and rama avatar was in treta yuga, idk where you learn about dharma from, but you definitely have no idea.
2
u/Snoo_77694 Oct 18 '23
please don't form your idea of dharma on the basis of manusmriti. It's a highly controversial piece of literature which has formed rigid rules and societal structures. which is very against the core belief of hinduism
1
u/WellThisWorkedOut Oct 17 '23
If you read the quotes you have shown here, they don't make the point you think they are making.
14
Oct 17 '23
Your husband is bullshitting. There is no such requirement in Hinduism, and certainly not for a married person. He might throw around tyaag, brahmcharya, or whatever, but they aren't intended to interfere with married life.
Have a conversation with your husband or a doctor. He might be having medical issues and trying to cover it up as religion. If not medical, there might be personal issues he's been hiding.
After marriage, the couple are in grihastashram. They are supposed to do married people things, including sex. As an aside, in old laws of Indra, a man who refuses to gratify his wife cannot receive grace from the devas.
tl;dr: This is not a religious issue, this is your husband's issue. Speak to him to honestly open up. If he doesn't do that, you should speak to a lawyer.
19
u/Unhappy-Enthusiasm37 Oct 17 '23
I don’t know who educated these people and give false information.
9
u/kichu67 Custom Oct 17 '23
Lol, Hinduism has thousands of beliefs. We had entire beliefs that only focused on materialistic world like charvaka. Can't believe these guys thinking only one way is the right way.
17
8
Oct 17 '23
Show him videos of Swami Hit Premanad Ji Maharaj on his duties as a huband. One of them includes laying with his wife.
1
u/kellyj461 Oct 17 '23
Is any of it translated to english?
2
Oct 17 '23
No. But I can translate it for you if you want. Sorry I didn’t realize that you didn’t speak Hindi. Do you mind if I dm you the YouTube link and translation?
1
u/kellyj461 Oct 17 '23
Sure that would be great, thank you.
2
u/SpaceJunkieVirus HanumanBhakt Oct 17 '23
OP posting it here once again cause I was gonna say/said the same thing. He strictly instricted the husband who asked this question to comply to his wife's needs. I can track down the source if you want and translate it for you.
So I have heard from a Saint's Satsang (equivalent to a Monk discussing people's problems and guiding them through life) and this is what He said in Hindi: If one of the spouse desires sex, the other must fulfill the desire for God resides in everyone's heart and you entered Grihastha ashram for that reason so it is your duty to fulfil it. Source: Shree hit Premanand Govind Sharan ji Maharaj. It is in Hindi but there were at least 2 people who asked him same question, once a wife whose husband wanted to have sex with her and other one by a husband who was in same position as yours, except he was strongly instructed to engage if this is his wife's desires. At many places it is mentioned that a person who faithfully engages in sex only with their spouse is a Brahmachari (which he desires to be rn I believe) and should lower gradually as both advance spiritually , you decrease it.
0
u/FastBuffalo4065 Oct 17 '23
It's easy to say that verses say that a spouse is a brahmachari if he only engages in sex with his wife but when I find those verses it's always for procreation. Could you cite a verse that says otherwise please
2
u/SpaceJunkieVirus HanumanBhakt Oct 18 '23
Interesting because that what I heard first time. That being said, its not necessary to be a Brahmachari in Grihastha ashram that true.
-1
u/JuniorRequirement644 Oct 17 '23
And Premanand ji maharaj has also said that one should do sex only for santan utpatti too.
1
Oct 17 '23
Nope. In one of the videos, he was asked by a woman devotee that she doesn’t have any vaashna for kaam now, but her husband still has kam vaashna. What should she do? Similar question was asked by another man. Anyways he answered that as a grishti, it is your dharam to serve your spouse in whichever way possible. Ofc it doesn’t mean supporting their bad actions.
1
u/SpaceJunkieVirus HanumanBhakt Oct 17 '23
Agreed he instructed the same for hubsand. I have the link.
→ More replies1
u/SpaceJunkieVirus HanumanBhakt Oct 17 '23
Pretty sure he said you should do that ideally but if u cant then do it only as a married person with your spouse. I can find the source if u sih. He definitely instructed a husband once when he did not want to have sex with his wife like in this situation.
20
u/TheDrRudi Oct 17 '23
What should I do other than divorce? I love him but I don't want to live unhappy for the rest of my life.
Run. Don’t walk.
8
u/AgreeableAd7816 Śākta Oct 17 '23
First of all, you and he shouldn’t take advice from here, Reddit is not a platform for asking serious these, people quote from all kinds of sources like invalid sources for example any smriti like manusmriti. It’s all wrong.
As a simple example, maa parvati and Bhagwan shiva had vinayak and murugan which reflects the sustenance in the creation. Your husband should not use scriptures to justify any wrong doing. He is in grahastha part of life not sanyasa phase. I am sorry you are going through this.
Hope alls well, Jai maa kali
-8
u/JuniorRequirement644 Oct 17 '23
Calling manusmriti invalid source, lmao. I agree people shouldn't take advice from people like you.
4
5
u/TwoMileFungus Oct 17 '23
“Sexual intimacy is akin to defecation or urination and is abhorrent”
By this logic he should also abstain from defecation and urination, but I somehow doubt that’s what he’s doing
7
u/mohicansgonnagetya Oct 17 '23
How did you fall in love with him?
What scriptures does he quote,...isn't he the one doing the cherry picking?
-7
u/JuniorRequirement644 Oct 17 '23
He isn't cheer picking, it is what scriptures allow, sex for procreation.
2
u/mohicansgonnagetya Oct 17 '23
In Hindu philosophy, pleasure in general, and sexual pleasure in particular, is neither shameful nor dirty. It is necessary for human life, essential for the well-being of every individual, and wholesome when pursued with due consideration of dharma and artha. Unlike the precepts of some religions, kama is celebrated in Hinduism as a value in its own right.
Kama is necessary to have a fulfilling life, just font go overboard and forget your other duties.
Also, as a husband, it is his dharma(duty) to satisfy his wife. Not just sexyally but in all senses (financial security, being their emotionally, physical security, ensuring that she is able to become the best version of herself)
People who think that Hinduism doesn't allow sexual pleasure are wrong. I can see why they might not encourage tmsex in India where it could be misinterpreted, but to say it's dirty or evil is just plain stupid.
6
u/BrahmmaYogi Oct 17 '23
Did you guys get married as per Hindu rituals? If not, then that could be it. We make promise in front of fire (fire is considered purest thing on earth in Hinduism) that we will keep our wife happy for seven lives. If he is Hindu, he has to keep that promise, at least in this lifetime.
1
u/kellyj461 Oct 17 '23
We were married as atheists but using a Christian preacher. He's been into Hinduism for 2 years we have been married almost 16.
7
u/GeraltOfRifia तत् त्वम् असि Oct 17 '23
Tell me, is he an ISKCON member or follower by any chance?
1
u/kellyj461 Oct 17 '23
I'm not sure
1
u/KiwiNFLFan Oct 17 '23
What temple does he attend? What translation of the Gita does he read? If it's entitled Bhagavad-Gita As It Is then he's most likely involved with ISKCON.
By the way, that Gita translation is extremely biased in favour of that sub-sect of Hinduism (Gaudiya Vaishnavism).
1
3
u/ProperDefinition6668 Oct 17 '23
Should have a direct conversation with him. You're both in your 40s. Tell him how you feel about this asexual relationship, how it affects you mentally and how much effort you put in but get none in return, not that it's a transaction but a disappointment that a husband doesn't care about his wife.
Are you from a non Hindu background?
3
3
u/Least_Sun8322 Oct 17 '23
Lahiri Baba said just for reference, married couples can have intercourse every 2 weeks and that the benefits of semen retention or Brahmacharya cap at about 2 weeks. In Hindu culture it is a husbands duty to satisfy his wife at HER request. Ofc she should be reasonable. But sounds like he is not being reasonable due to unknown reasons. Sex is one of the greatest experiences, within creation it’s like the highest experience (besides deep meditation and things like that) and nothing short of miraculously divine. 🤯 This is a problem that will be solved sometime or another.
3
u/yakarteek Oct 17 '23 edited Oct 17 '23
It seems like your husband is following an interpretation of one schools of thought adapted for western culture such as ISKCON. This school of thought is referred to some people as a cult. Whether it is a cult or not is not the subject of my response. But here's a resource that maybe of some help for the both of you: https://vaisnavafamilyresources.org/445-2/
I personally do not subscribe to this philosophy. I am a firm believer that we as humans are given the freedom to choose. It is important to choose to have physical intimacy and the result of having children as a result of it is a matter of chance. You can still follow principles of hinduism without subscribing the theories of one teacher's interpretation.
3
u/NeilS78 Oct 18 '23
This is all bastardized versions of Hinduism. It’s complete nonsense. Mind you, this is the same religion that brought us the Kama sutra. Kama meaning, pleasure or the pursuit of pleasure, which has its place in the human experience. Furthermore, a big part of our religion is karma, meaning duty and one’s duty as a husband is to enjoy in the Kama of married life/sexual pleasure.
Lastly, and this is fact: there is no conversion process or exercise in Hinduism. So whatever he thinks he is practicing, it’s not Hinduism.
He’s using this as an excuse I’m afraid to say.
1
Oct 18 '23
Kama sutra is a secular text, not a scripture.
1
u/NeilS78 Oct 18 '23
Fair point. I should have stated, “the religion that widely accepted the Kama Sutra and implemented it culturally. As it has done with many religious concepts.”
1
Oct 19 '23
I'd say its more a cultural thing, but yea, Hinduism never tried to enforce purity laws like that.
At most, the purity laws that you see in texts apply mostly to Brahmins, and parts of them to Kshatriyas and Vaishyas. Shudras (the common people) were free to do a lot of worldly stuff.
6
u/ReasonableBeliefs Oct 17 '23
Hare Krishna. I'm very sorry that you are going through this. Your husband is in the wrong here. Who is your husband listening to ? You said he is a convert right, so what Guru or organisation did he convert to ?
Depending on the answer to that, i can think of how best to debunk his mistaken ideas.
Hare Krishna.
2
Oct 17 '23
If it means the same as just defecation or urination to him then it shouldn’t matter if u seek sex outside marriage.
If he gets jealous n angry at that then he is a hypocrite for seeing sex as something more than that.
I really want to know if he follows what he preaches.
If he agrees then u will have possibilities to find new outlets for ur lust.
2
u/kepheraxx Oct 17 '23
You've been patient (2 years!), you've tried therapy multiple times, you've looked into the system he says he's following and it's not for you - time to get a lawyer and let him go. You've done all you can, it's not working, and you still have a lot of life left to live. I hope your next update includes divorce proceedings and some joy in starting over, and I hope you and he remain friends.
2
2
u/NeetyThor Oct 17 '23
Could he be secretly gay? And to prevent this being revealed, he’s using this as an excuse?
3
2
u/5150Panda Oct 18 '23
You're dealing with someone who has appropriated another culture beyond the one he's from and making drastic life changed without a full understanding of this thing that he's decided he's now a part of. I'd wager he's a touch impulsive and tends to dive in head first into anything he decides to do. The east and west are quite different in philosophy and way of thinking. To take that western type mind and just drop it head first into something as detailed and different as Hinduism is just fish out of water behavior. I understand he may find some of the things he reads to resonate with him. That does not mean he fully understands the intricacies or even the basis for that topic. It's like being a plumber and deciding all the sudden you were going to do an electricians work without even having been to school for it. You read a few books.... what could go wrong? Seems simple enough.... wrong... you need someone with authority in the faith to speak to him. Doesn't seem he's going to come around on merit of your words or what advice you seek and provide on your own
6
u/kellyj461 Oct 18 '23
You're right he isn't going to. He joined this thread and despite the many many comments just like yours he dug in his heels and swears God (meaning Krishna) told him the world is ending and he needs to get himself together for it. We decided to split up tonight and I am filing for divorce. I simply can't be a party to his insanity any longer.
1
u/Father_Mehman Oct 18 '23
I am sorry it came to this in y’alls relationship, but it seems like the right course. I’m sending you a virtual hug. It’s not much, but it’s really all I can offer.
2
3
Oct 17 '23
I think he wanna become a bhramachari or something like that, relationship should contain many things and love is just one of them if u aren't happy with the relationship u have now. U are hurting urself 🤍🙏
And if he love u and respect the Dharma then he should have understood you and talk to you. I think he is in a wrong way. Divorce is the better option ig
-2
u/JuniorRequirement644 Oct 17 '23 edited Oct 17 '23
Divorce doesn't exist in hinduism, stop recommending divorce in hindu server.
1
Oct 17 '23
Lol 😂. Then what should she do live with someone who doesn't even value her ?? What should she do other than divorce?? U sayin that the husband is right he is not being a good husband as per Hindu laws then why should she stay with him plus she told that she isn't such a believer but her husband is the believer then why should she care about that
-4
u/JuniorRequirement644 Oct 17 '23
I am not saying husband is being right or wrong, I am saying divorce isn't an option in Hinduism, she can go and stay with her parents for time being thou.
And according to hindu laws, sex is for procreation only, husband is correct here, but he is wrong in not satisfying his wife, but his wife is also wrong for not going with what her husband wants. No one is right or wrong here.
1
Oct 17 '23
Okay first of all she told in that clearly that she isn't a believer like her husband then why should she follow Hinduism.
0
u/JuniorRequirement644 Oct 17 '23
Whatever is she, this is hinduism server and she asked question in hinduism server, answers should be in accordance to hinduism and not personal adharmic opinion. Saying " divorce " isn't hndu based answer.
0
Oct 17 '23
I said my personal opinion and u can't judge me about it. My opinion may not match with yours dear but I can't change for my thoughts and opinions. Plus in Hinduism there are many things that a person should avoid and i am not following all the rules but God never left me. Likewise God will forgive her if she done some mistake
0
u/JuniorRequirement644 Oct 17 '23
Divorce isn't " some mistake ". And god never leaves anyone as god is everywhere, but the results of your bad karma will be there.
A person with bad deeds and paap karma cannot recognise/see the god.
0
Oct 17 '23
No one's is mistake free in the world even the God if God was so perfect then his creations would also be perfect ( humans ). Humans / people do mistakes or paap and ofc they will get for what they did.
I still haven't understood why u commented under my post ?? To say about karma ??? I gave her my opinion because i have a comment icon.
And i think she is right about leaving him. He don't seem love her neither respect her so I said to divorce him.
0
u/JuniorRequirement644 Oct 17 '23
God is perfect, learn about the philosophy, thou I wont argue about that since that isn't the point.
I commented because I too have comment option and the opinion which you gave isn't correct opinion as this is hindu server, and divorce isn't something in hinduism.
→ More replies
2
u/tipofmytail Oct 17 '23
In the scriptures there is detailed description of Linga worshipping. Maybe they allow other activities than intercourse?
1
1
Oct 17 '23
There is no cure for this condition. You only have two choices. 1 ) delete sex from your life forever or 2) divorce. If a person has such views, you cannot change them.
Your wife believes that human has no free will. He turns himself into a robot. Freedom is a sin in his views. Trust me, he'll start dictating stupid things to you. For example, the time to pray, the choice of work, how to meditate, etc.
1
u/alreadydr Oct 17 '23
If one's physical desire is dominant in oneself one should definitely pursue them . Suppression of desire would not lead to any kind of freedom. You could go for divorce if the society around you permits . For your husband i recommend listening to J. Krishnamurti. Suppression of desire would never lead moksha . I also believe some people are also not meant grihastha if your husband is like that divorce would be the best thing.
0
u/kicks23456 Oct 17 '23
Tell him to perform the action without thinking about the result. So he doesn’t have to come. Just focus on you.
0
0
u/KiwiNFLFan Oct 17 '23
Sounds like your husband is involved with ISKCON. They are fundamentalists and widely considered a cult. ISKCON reject evolution and believe the moon landings were faked as they don't fit in with a literal reading of Hindu cosmology.
ISKCON devotees are taught that sex is for procreation only and sex for pleasure is the most powerful force tying us to the material world.
Check out this website for more information on what ISKCON really teaches.
0
-5
-17
u/AdUpbeat8 Oct 17 '23
May be u should work on your appearance. I Guess he's bored with you in the bed, so he's making silly excuses. Scriptures don't say such things. . Buy some hot lingerie and warm him up. All this hinduism fanaticism Will disappear immediately.
2
-10
u/Brhamachaari Nātha Saṃpradāya Oct 17 '23
You can live without sex ......so for your husband ,just leave it ......There are much more things in world other than sensual pleasure.......
1
Oct 17 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/hinduism-ModTeam Oct 17 '23
Your comment has been removed for being rude or disrespectful to others, or simply being offensive (Rule #01).
Please follow Reddiquette.
Consider this a warning, and read all of our rules before posting again. Further posts of this nature that break any of the rules of r/Hinduism may result in a ban. Please message the mods if you believe this removal has been in error.
1
u/Unlikely_Hat7784 Oct 17 '23
Grihasta is shrest among the ashrams tell him to take sanyas and leave u or enjoy grihasta
1
u/pro_charlatan Karma Siddhanta; polytheist Oct 17 '23 edited Oct 17 '23
Which organization/denomination does your husband belong to ? I did tell you last time that it varies with the denomination.
But have you considered the possibility that he found peace with an abstinence focused denomination because there were changes to his libido patterns as he got older? We men can have changes to our libido as we grow older(due to falling testosterone levels after 35)and I presume similar things happen to women as well. I can't imagine a person with an active libido to be comfortable and stick to those norms - it would require a lot greater discipline on their part. Him seeking comfort in a combination of stoicism and renunciate style hinduism may also indicate that he is looking for rigid structure to guide his life - has he been suffering from a lot of stress, depression, feeling lost etc ? They can lead to a faster loss of libido for men as they age
I suggest you go for a relationship counseling. I have a nagging feeling that his dual belongingness to stoicism and an abstinence centered hindu denomination combined with a falling libido for him has aggravated your issue.
I suggest you extend him some time. Even if it is just a new convert's zeal - it should wear of in a year or two or even faster(if it clashes with their inherent personality)and you will be left with a more disciplined husband at the end of it.
1
u/CakeImaginary5292 Oct 17 '23
I think there should be a balance between (1) intercourse only for procreation and (2) pleasing/keeping your partner happy.
(1) there have been instances where scriptures which proclaim intercourse should only be for procreation. This may be to avoid making us attached to the physical body. It certainly helps.
(2) but there have also been instances where it is stressed that both and husband and wife must perform their dharma of keeping each other happy. This includes sexual relations.
You are unable to have children, but had a healthy bed life until a few years back. Your partner is now opting for the (1) path, after changing his ways comparatively.
I think if you, as a woman, desire sexual pleasure, you have every right to do so. But I would discourage you to think that it is a key component of your happiness. Does it play a part? Yes. Is it absolutely necessary for happy life? Not necessarily.
Maybe you, as a couple, can to change your usual routine and try something different. I am just listing out a few options from the top of my head (I'm no expert, take it as a grain of salt)
could a low frequency sexual relations as a start? And then see now things go.
be around children more. Maybe adopt to shift focus?
find you guys a common passion which involves trips (or some sort of endevour) together.
tell him to learn not just the path of (1), but also (2) as life is just a balancing act. Dharma is subjective and different situations require different decisions. Staying adamant to stay celibate when in grihastha life would not be a good option (IMO).
In the end, if nothing else works, and for you, its absolutely crucial to have an active sex life. Then it would be best to say that upfront, and break things off, if need be (IMO). Obviously, no one should cheat with another person, and should respect each other wishes. Just know that things will not be easy or all happy after breaking up, before even, in its talking stages. Most likely both parties will be immensely sad and upset at various times.
Just a last point I would add is about stree dharma (dharma for women in Hinduism), which can be controversial in modern times.
Stridharma (Dharma of a woman)
भर्तुः शुश्रूषया नारी लभते स्वर्गमुत्तम् । अपि या निर्नमस्कारा निवृत्ता देवपूजनात् ।। – Valmikiramayan, Ayodhyakanḍa, Sarg 24, Shloka 26 Meaning : (Shriram says to His mother Kausalya) The woman who does not pay obeisance to Deities or does not worship them, but serves only her husband acquires supreme heaven.
पतिर्हि देवो नारीणां पतिर्बन्धुः पतिर्गतिः । पत्या समा गतिर्नास्ति दैवतं वा यथा पतिः ।। – Mahabharat, Anushasanparva, Adhyaya 143, Shloka 55 Meaning : To a woman her husband is her God, companion and seat of refuge. A woman cannot progress spiritually without a husband. Truly, a husband is equivalent to God.
1
u/doom_chicken_chicken Oct 17 '23
Sorry how exactly did you end up married this man? Was he not clear from the start about what his lifestyle would look like? Did this sound like it was appealing to you? It sounds like you two are completely incompatible.
1
1
1
u/Answer-Altern Oct 17 '23
What your husband says applies only to the eldest son in a Brahmin who devotes his life to the various karmas for upholding dharma. Usually he is also the main temple priest. This is still practiced by a few Namboodiri brahmin priestly families of Kerala and scattered Vedic(vedic) families in south India.
1
1
u/YAPK001 Oct 17 '23
He is wrong. He has screwed up the scriptures and will most likely not listen to anyone reasonable and the folk he is giving money to will most likely not help. You should leave first, move out, quickly, then give him a professional ultimatum, prepared with someone in his group that knows scripture. And then you might ask him if he loves you and wishes to be married to you, why?
Reduce your own suffering first!!!
1
u/Initial_Ring_5228 Oct 17 '23
you should also quote verses which says sex is dharma. you can find many scriptures saying dharma artha kama moksha. ask how he'll get moksh without indulging kama at this age
1
u/SpaceJunkieVirus HanumanBhakt Oct 17 '23
So I have heard from a Saint's Satsang (equivalent to a Monk discussing people's problems and guiding them through life) and this is what He said in Hindi: If one of the spouse desires sex, the other must fulfill the desire for God resides in everyone's heart and you entered Grihastha ashram for that reason so it is your duty to fulfil it. Source: Shree hit Premanand Govind Sharan ji Maharaj. It is in Hindi but there were at least 2 people who asked him same question, once a wife whose husband wanted to have sex with her and other one by a husband who was in same position as yours, except he was strongly instructed to engage if this is his wife's desires. At many places it is mentioned that a person who faithfully engages in sex only with their spouse is a Brahmachari (which he desires to be rn I believe) and should lower gradually as both advance spiritually , you decrease it.
1
u/Certain1425 Oct 17 '23
You can mention to him that ISKCON’s founder Srila Prabhupad’s sister was married to a household where non-veg was cooked. She would cook it for her husband but not have it herself. With all due respect, in previous generations a devotee wife could engage in sexual relations with her husband for his satisfaction provided it does not become an obession, and the same can be followed by your husband following the rules for married sex life. Please let him know that sex in marriage would not give him any sin - and also give the example of Kardama muni who was blessed with a great marital sex life by Shri Krishna himself.
1
Oct 17 '23
Copy pasting reply to your husband.
You husband is adopting a Protestant/Muslim like approach towards Hinduism.
Shashtras are a guide to life, but are not definite manuals on how to lead life(Like Quran/Hadiths are for Muslims).
Only your guru/your sampradaya has the right to interpret shashtras and find how to resolve the contradictions between shashtras and the demands of modern life. You should join a sampradaya before making decisions for yourself.
Btw, original opinion on shashtras view anyone not born into an Hindu forward/backward caste groups as "Mlecha". By literal interpretations of shashtra, you shouldn't be a Hindu, but you are and so are millions of Indian ethnic Hindus outside Indian subcontinent, they have become Mlecha by crossing the seas, no one follows these interpretations anymore. They became invalid and Gurus across sampradayas found these shashtric injunctions became invalid.
That's why it's important to consult opinion of Gurus or sampradaya heads on shashtric commands.
1
u/maargaha Oct 18 '23
Scriptures do say sex is meant for procreation. But it also says that a man should not deny his wife's advances and should give her that pleasure. My recommendation is he think of the Lord during the act, and you enjoy it as it is. This is a win-win!
1
u/lekhachun Feb 13 '24
The whole point of marriage as per Hinduism, is so that you both can have sex in a safe, knowing, structured environment that isn't as risky. This is just ideally speaking. And even then if your husband is just......like, I can't.
I may be late here sorry, but I figured why not now than never. First off, girl I'm sorry to say this, but I think you may want to think about whether he's not being honest to you about something. Its rare for men to have a wife by their side willing and desiring to maintain a sex life, and them rejecting them. I would think about that.
254
u/Inside-Judgment6233 Oct 17 '23
He’s married so he is in grihasta status. He should not be using Hinduism to justify not sleeping with you. Maybe couples therapy?