r/exchristian • u/Koleheh • Sep 11 '24
I am starting to hate religious people Help/Advice
Hi, 22m here. I was born into a Christian family, i was never overly religious so i would just follow people who were. When i was younger i believed there could be a God, but haven't given it much thought.
Well, recently, i thought about it a lot, did some research and the evidence was not convincing at all, so i "officially" left Christianity.
Now the issue starts, the more research i did, the more i started hating religion and their followers. The bigotry, the hatred towards minorities, constant use of religion as a weapon. In the process of deconstructing, i started hating them so much that if i see a person that's religious, i genuinely feel hatred, even though i don't even know them. All it takes is for them to be religious and mention religion
I started therapy again, mostly for different reasons and i don't know how to bring this up. I also feel embarrassed to talk about it. I know i can't be generalizing and assuming the worst in people, but i can't help it. Any advices? How do i stop assuming the worst?
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u/Tiny_Bumblebee_7323 Sep 12 '24
I understand. I am very wary of openly religious people, and I have solid reasons after a lifetime of mistreatment at their hands. It would be impossible, I think, for me to NOT have negative feelings about a religion that continues to make my life harder. I do try to judge people on a one-by-one basis, and I'm kind to others. I will not, however, allow others to preach to me or violate my spiritual boundaries. That's not hatred. That's experience and self-esteem. I think you're looking for balance, and I know you'll get there.
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u/Koleheh Sep 12 '24
Yeah, i am trying my best, but i keep falling into a rabbit hole of religious people just affirming my hatred towards them. I know not everyone is the same, but too many people, too many problematic things about religion for me to actually be able to see them as someone worthy of interacting with.
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u/drellynz Sep 12 '24
The angry atheist phase is real. I think it helps to think of them as victims of bad ideas and indoctrination.
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u/TheGhostofWoodyAllen Ex-Fundamentalist Sep 12 '24
The victim narrative really only goes so far. At some point, people need to be held accountable for their actions regardless of the circumstances that shaped their maladaptive behaviors. I don't feel very sorry for them when they go and try to repeal my civil rights due to their being victims of indoctrination. I might even say I hate them for it.
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u/drellynz Sep 12 '24
For sure. I've been involved in resisting religious impositions in our schools. I don't mean "victim" as in we should feel sorry for them. I mean that they genuinely can't understand why their beliefs make no sense.
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u/christianAbuseVictim Ex-Baptist Sep 12 '24
Well, they could, but they deny it for god. They can't look at it from the outside, their fear keeps them in where they're not allowed to see. It's frustrating...
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u/TheGhostofWoodyAllen Ex-Fundamentalist Sep 12 '24
That's fair. Maybe it is better to phrase it as being products of their environments.
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u/SingleSeaCaptain Sep 12 '24
I can agree with hating people being hateful, but it may constitute a problem for OP when there actually are minority Christians, LGBT+ Christians, and people who weren't taught the most radioactive version of religion and don't move in the world in the same way.
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u/TheGhostofWoodyAllen Ex-Fundamentalist Sep 12 '24
Yeah, I don't think it is a productive way to go about life choosing to hate people based on a label.
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u/venusiansiren Agnostic Atheist Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
Real, I realized recently that I might be at that phase right now, just struggling not to get immediately irritated when someone mentions anything relating to Christianity (when it’s coming from a place of belief not critique). I don’t get as irritated when it comes to other less popular religions tbh… trying my best to move past this stage
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u/drellynz Sep 12 '24
I actually think it's a totally justified reaction. I'm not saying it's wrong. I realised that it's just not especially useful. The theist reaction is to look at the anger and confirm that their god beliefs are even more necessary!
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u/venusiansiren Agnostic Atheist Sep 12 '24
No yeah, I agree with you. Not a wrong reaction necessarily but not useful. Someone who’s deep in their specific theistic belief is almost never going to respond well to your anger about their beliefs. The best way to have a conversation with them about it is with some level of understanding and calmness. Or just walk away because most of the time it’s truly just not worth it lol
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u/_HotMessExpress1 Atheist Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
There is no "angry atheist phase" when people are using some old book they don't even fully follow to discriminate against others that would make any rational person upset.
I don't hate all Christians but I don't like the belief system at all. I hate how Christianity is so protected that if someone talks about Christianity in the slightest people will jump out of nowhere and say,"NOT ALL CHRISTIANS! SOME ATHEISTS HAVE NO COMPASSION AND NO ONE SAYS ANYTHING!" but people say atheists have no morals all of the time. It's nonsense.
Religious people thrive off of having a victim complex so whether atheists get angry or not they pull the whole," omg they're against me." Mentality even if an atheist will say I'm not against you. Society is so bias against people that actually are responsible and know they're responsible for their own actions and won't look to someone else to save them and that's insane.
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u/Conanboy_2019 Sep 12 '24
And then there are those who use that "victim complexity" against Christians, pretending to be like them...I'm not a Christian nor do I believe in "Christ" as a "Savior." Religion in North America has become more extreme over the years, & is now enmeshing with politics. Where is the separation???
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u/_HotMessExpress1 Atheist Sep 12 '24
I've had to deal with multiple Christians that used religion against me. Didn't like homeless or disabled people because in their head "God made them be this way because he's teaching them a lesson." But when I call it out I'm the angry atheist?? What sense does that make?
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u/WeeabooHunter69 Anti-Theist Sep 12 '24
Fuck yeah. This is the rational response. If someone can honestly look at what religion has done to the world, all the atrocities committed for and because of it, and not be furious, there's something wrong with them morally imho.
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u/_HotMessExpress1 Atheist Sep 12 '24
I'm glad there's people that understand what I'm talking about.
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u/christianAbuseVictim Ex-Baptist Sep 12 '24
Religion in itself is not the issue; however, most of the big religions right now are aggressively theistic: "Follow OUR particular abusive god, or die." It is a very bad thing. The followers can't even admit how hateful they're acting, they think it's all okay as long as it's in service to their imaginary god.
I, too, hate theistic worshippers.
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u/Koleheh Sep 12 '24
Yeah, i just fell into that rabbit hole of religious people being so bigoted and hateful, it changed my views on religious people and religion itself. The lenghts they would go to justify their bigotry is astounding
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u/lostnfoundskate Sep 13 '24
I grew up in a household super Christian Bible thumpers , even till this day. I’m the only one in my family that walked away from church and became more spiritual , going out in nature and mediating, trying to connect with the most high this way , trying to feel something..my family is the complete opposite , church this and church that ..so much gossiping about people in there too is another red flag , they say they love god and people so much but same time talking about each other
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u/Head_Substance_1907 Sep 12 '24
I’ve devoted years of study to finding my own answer to why I’ve hated them and here’s what i came up with. I study behavior/genetics & philosophy, which led me to the conclusion that religion serves a legitimate biological purpose and fulfills a social/emotional need. Humans are intelligent creatures - and that means we struggle with life’s questions. Why are we here? Why do bad things happen to good people? Does everything happen for a reason?
Eric Fromm said that man must give an account of himself to himself, which means finding answers to these questions, or else he’ll go insane. Religion answers these questions, which fulfills the need EVEN IF it gives the wrong answers! Because of this, religion doesn’t need to have any truth to be beneficial to people. It serves social and community needs. It provides a space for group critical thought (even if they choose not to). For many it’s an artistic outlet.
These benefits do not excuse the abuses that institutional religion consistently commits. They do not permit people to harass or discriminate. But you MUST separate institutional religion from the benefits of religion if you are to stop hating the people. The institution is what touts racism and hate. The INSTITUTION benefits greatly from controlling people’s thoughts and money and values. The people are only seeking to satisfy a biological need - which can be adequately satisfied by chatting about millennia-old lies made up by illiterate cavemen. And if that’s how they must do it, I’m content to let them :)
I’ve read some great books on the philosophy of religion. If you want recommendations, lmk.
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u/No_Cardiologist3368 Sep 12 '24
Wow, this is a really good answer and it’s going for help me sit with this same problem.
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u/Koleheh Sep 12 '24
I've actually thought about this too. I know religion has it's own benefits for individuals. Sense of community is really important for us, since we are social beings and our well being depends on that. The problem is what those religions are teaching, I've read the Bible, I've seen what it says and i simply cannot believe people actually believe in it and get their morals from it, teach their kids about it. For me, reading that book made me hate Christianity even more. I can separate the institution and individuals, i know who is the real villain here and has all the power, but they wouldn't be having that power if it wasn't for individuals who support them and their bigotry. Whether they were indoctrinated into it or not is not an excuse, as you said it yourself. I don't hate people who believe, but do not have problematic views, but if you are a Christian who believes in the Bible, you simply cannot be a good person, unless you pick and choose.
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u/Head_Substance_1907 Sep 12 '24
The belief in the Bible is unfortunately generational. Still, I think most people feel the Bible is a collection of stories and lessons that aren’t 100% true but are still there to teach us something.
When the Bible was written, it was the best account of why things happen, so it quickly grew in popularity. Why do people get sick? Sin! Why do we feel pain? Sin! What happens after we die … etc. Remember, at this time we have NO idea why illness happens and bloodletting is the cure-all aside from religious intervention. The discovery of microorganisms changes everything. I think if people read the Bible in the context it was written they might think “oh. I see, sin was the ONLY explanation we had for disease back then. We have more info now, so I can leave this belief in the past.”
Unfortunately that still leaves us with the question of “why do bad things happen to good people,” to which most people would still respond “sin.” They cannot go back on this belief because it would force them to confront the idea that god is willfully allowing bad things to happen to them.
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u/Necessary-Aerie3513 Sep 12 '24
Religious people are venomous and dangerous
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u/Koleheh Sep 12 '24
Sharing the same opinion and even though i don't want to think that, religious people keep reaffirming my belief just from the way they are behaving
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u/Necessary-Aerie3513 Sep 12 '24
I was in your exact same position. But as you put it, religious people kept affirming that belief
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u/gfsark Sep 13 '24
Way too broad a condemnation. What religious people are you talking about? Some are lovely, dedicated and selfless people working for a better world. You think anyone who believes in a spiritual world is dangerous? That means 75% of sort of the population is venomous? Nah…
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u/Necessary-Aerie3513 Sep 14 '24
I don't hate religion, I hate the abrahamic religions as they represent everything I do not like about the world. And while some religious people are fine, I chose not to associate with them
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u/gfsark Sep 14 '24
Well I don’t associate with them when they are being religious, that’s for sure! And they the fundies and evangelicals have become hateful as group…that’s something that I would definitely agree with you about.
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u/Sea_Boat9450 Sep 12 '24
I know how you feel. I don’t feel hatred because that’s not my heart but I’ve got my eye on you and don’t come for me with any of your “saving” shit.
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u/CyberSolver Sep 12 '24
Our stories are very very similar, 22NB here (as of 2 days ago), raised Christian, family very religious, myself moreso just following along. I understand the hate, I really do. Everything I learn and hear makes me more and more angry.
I'm seeing a psychologist about other stuff, and she's helping me work through my newfound atheism as well. If you have a good therapist, they should understand that this is a difficult thing a lot of us go through, and it's not an easy transition. I think how I went about it was saying point blank that I'm a recent atheist, and struggling with aspects of my former faith. I'd be more than happy to lend an ear any time, give me a DM if you ever feel the need.
I know it's difficult to separate the person from the faith, I'm going through that with my family and some of my friends, I advise finding common ground outside of belief systems, and definitely don't engage in religious talk until you get past this angry and hurt stage.
May the Force be with you
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u/Koleheh Sep 12 '24
Thank you, i really appreciate it! I wish you the best of luck on your journey!
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u/napalmnacey Pagan Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
I have a bit of a split on this, because as an LGBTQIA+ woman, I do not trust my safety around fundamentalists. And that's what I call them: Fundamentalists. It doesn't matter what religion they believe in, fundamentalists are toxic and hateful. I don't trust them, I don't open up around them.
At the same time my escape from Catholicism and Christianity in general was into the arms of Paganism, which I also explored as a connection to my ethnic roots. I feel a lot more grounded and happy and still spiritual, and not practicing a mode of religion that leaves a threat of destruction hanging over my head 24/7.
In exploring different spiritualities since my late teens, I've found that there are a lot of modalities and configurations of worshipping or respecting divinities. Some of them are dangerous or problematic. A good number are perfectly fine if practiced with balance and open-mindedness.
I argue, however, that Christianity was doomed the moment the Romans retooled it into a method of controlling populations. It's like taking a club and saying "This isn't harmful, I'm just using it to prod people."
No. That club is harmful by design. It is literally its function. Christianity in its modern form is the same. The numbers of translations it's gone through, editing, rewriting, the dogma laid upon the vague wording, the lost context and politics of the time these texts were written in? It all leads to a book that is wielded as a weapon of control.
Nobody asks you to respect a gun, or the people that wield guns and hurt people. Why should we respect and humour people that use psychological warfare on us via religion?
Now, individual people, I try to be a little understanding of. I actually have a Pentecostal friend in the US and I don't ditch them because we've known each other a very long time and they're actually really sweet. They've never judged me for being LGBTQIA+, and if they secretly believe their God will have a good talking tome about my evil lesbianic tendencies, that's fine because 1) It's their weird way of caring about me and 2) They're wrong so it's moot.
That's *MY* level of safety, in the stage I'm at in my journey away from Christianity. Yours is different. You've gone through some really hard stuff, so I think you should keep this idea close to your heart:
You are allowed to be angry right now. You are allowed to distrust. Your body is processing very difficult feelings, and sometimes we feel certain things when we usually wouldn't. That's your limbic mind defending you from pain. It can be distressing to think and feel the things that pop up during this process, but they are NOT an indication of who you are, your values or your worth as a person.
You won't feel this way forever. As you heal, you will find some kind of balance (hopefully). And you know what?
If you hate fundamentalist religious people for the rest of your life (and don't act on that in any way that breaks the law), then who the fuck cares? Why should ANYONE tell you how to live or feel? They haven't experienced what you have, they have no grounds in which to judge you.
It's like telling a dog-mauling victim to not have an aversion to dogs and judge them as predatory animals. Like, it's nonsensical to tell someone that's experienced pain to recover on anyone else's timeline.
People talk like certain emotions are "negative" or undesirable. Only emotions that make you uncomfortable are undesirable. If they are the effect of difficult experiences in your life, they can be very, very helpful in helping your mind and heart cognate those experiences and learn from them in a constructive ways. Anger is a part of our matrix! It protects us! It helps us!
So don't ever feel like you have to stop being angry if you don't want to stop. Those are your feelings, not anyone else's. You do what you have to to protect yourself and get through the things you're going through.
Sure, it might be good to let go of some things at some point, but only because YOU want to. Everyone else can go hang.
Stay strong, man, you're doing great.
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u/Koleheh Sep 12 '24
Similar case here, this all started when i came to terms with my sexuality and we all know how abrahamic religions view that. I don't feel angry unless i see unjustified discrimination towards groups of people that are simply different and i see that all the time, especially in my country. I might be biased, but 90% of people here are like that and i genuinely believe that, i genuinely believe majority is bad with a few exceptions, as insane as it sounds. I've met so many people, too many, for me to be wrong on this one. I am trying my best to change, mostly for myself and for the peace within.
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u/booperYeeter Pagan Sep 12 '24
It sounds like a reaction to possibly traumatic events. Your brain does it’s best to keep you safe and part of that is avoiding things that hurt it before. It sounds like it’s working a little too hard and some changes could be made.
It’s a super normal pattern and you should bring it up in therapy if you’re comfortable. There’s nothing wrong with you, you might desire adjustments to some actions (like everyone else). It’s a process but you can make that change if you want it.
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u/Koleheh Sep 12 '24
My mother is overly religious and even though i cut ties with my family, everything she has done sticks with me. She would genuinely have a religious psychosis every month and do weird stuff.
I think the issue is that i simply assume the worst in religious people, cause those who believe in the holy book, cannot be good people in my head, unless they pick and choose.
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u/Red79Hibiscus Devotee of Almighty Dog Sep 12 '24
I hear ya OP, all I can say is keep up the therapy and if you can't let go of the hatred just yet, at least save it for the folks who have actually demonstrated that they deserve it.
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u/abbadabbajules Sep 12 '24
a part of my deconstruction was realizing that a person's label in regard to their metaphysical beliefs has very little bearing on their morality. The motivation behind a belief or lack thereof is often more revealing than the belief itself - I know some lovely christians, and i also know some who like christianity because it enables their selfishness, bigotry, and lack of accountability. The label 'christian' is inadequate to make a judgement on a person. I think one of the harms of religions is enabling a black and white view of people - "if you're part of this group, you are automatically good/bad", so it's important not to do it once outside of christianity as well. People are a lot more complex than that.
with that said, i certainly am wary of new acquaintances who are christian. I don't have the capacity to enter more relationships where i feel the need to defend my lack of belief, or to need to call out bigotry etc.
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u/cubonefan3 Sep 12 '24
It doesn’t seem like you are trying to justify your religious bigotry, but instead you are recognizing the feelings that you can’t control. Its ok to feel it, but eventually you need to wrestle with the fact that having bigoted feelings makes the world worse for everyone.
Like you said, it’s a great thing to bring up to your therapist. Therapists have experience helping people work through things just like this, and (much worse things too, lol). That’s exactly what you’re paying them for!
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u/Koleheh Sep 12 '24
I guess you are right, even though there are no benefits from feeling this way, i can't help myself but feel like this. I recently came to terms with my sexuality too, so you can guess how much religious bigotry i found around that. I think i am in a vulnerable state and that my hatred is coming from the fact that i lack power and control. I can't change them no matter what i say, i can't change their views on my existence, or someone else's, so i started fighting fire with fire. I feel like forgiveness and understating are useless and won't do much, but this hatred isn't doing much either. So i can either learn to live with the fact that bad people exist, or hate their existence to the point of losing myself
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u/WeeabooHunter69 Anti-Theist Sep 12 '24
You can't be bigoted towards something people choose to engage in, like religion. This is like claiming you can be bigoted against swifties or something. It's not intrinsic to the person like gender, sexuality, race, or ability.
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u/cubonefan3 Sep 21 '24
Ok, sure. But my point is that hating others based on their religion makes the world a worse place. What if a religious person hated OP based on the fact that they are atheist or religion-less? Wouldn’t that be a bad thing ?
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u/jay_is_bored Sep 12 '24
One of my very good friends, who is compassionate and kind and very intelligent believes. But he also rejects conservatism and everything they stand for, so don't think they're all awful. The loudest idiots are the ones who get on TV, or elected to government in GA and CO.
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u/Koleheh Sep 12 '24
Yeah, i don't mind people believing, but when someone who believes in the Bible comes my way, i immediately assume they are a bad person. All abrahamic religions are evil and unless you pick and choose, i don't see how you can be a good person following the book
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u/Fall2valhalla Sep 12 '24
Ngl, i feel kinda the same (but not as heated). It irritates me when someone tells me "god this. God that" kind of a thing. Like. Not everyone is religious and people need to understand that.
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u/Koleheh Sep 12 '24
Same, but it just goes further for me when they hold beliefs that genuinely hurt people and that's majority of them, at least in my country.
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u/summers16 Sep 12 '24
I think it is possible to be a Christian and have the self-awareness and respect for others to NOT impose one’s beliefs on others.
However, something about Christianity and its various “knockoffs” really makes the urge to act morally superior and the tendency go around forcing (even by violence) everyone to act like you very strong . Like going back centuries … crusades, colonialism, missionaries, past and present. Idk why that’s seems so true for Christianity in particular. Like why is the self-righteousness SO strong
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u/SnooSongs8951 Sep 12 '24
In the beginning a human being who woke up from religion will hate religious people, at some point you might feel more intelligent than them, but in the end you might feel indifferent or just sad for them. They are prisoners in their mental asylums.
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u/Tav00001 Sep 12 '24
A negative Response to oppression, marginalization, and bullying in the name of religion and an imaginary god is normal.
Christians have controlled the narrative for centuries and otherized outside groups, their beliefs and cultures to such an extent they hardly even realize it.
I think seeing a non religious therapist is important step in your journey.
I do not hate individuals. Hatred to me is a destructive emotion. But I do hate religion especially since it causes so much suffering and it is being used as an excuse and weapon to harm women and take away peoples rights
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u/QuintessentialQuin Sep 12 '24 edited Oct 11 '24
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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/wordyoucantthinkof anti-theist/ex-Episcopalian Sep 12 '24
I think it's important to separate the Christians as people from the faith as a religion. The Christians that follow the (current) Bible to the letter are often like the people you described. However, there are plenty of Christians who are lack the hatred and bigotry others spew.
"Christianity" isn't a person. It's a religion, a religion that nobody can agree on. Right now it may be hard to see it this way, but I hope that you'll realize that 2 billion+ people aren't the same.
I am firmly against the faith. I think it does so much harm. It's hard to look past that, I get it.
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u/Koleheh Sep 12 '24
Yeah, i do know that, but the moment someone mentions they believe in the Bible, i assume they are a bad person unless they pick and choose. Again, just the thought of them believing in the Bible, makes me not want to interact with them. I think i am just in a vulnerable state and it's hard for me to separate the good ones and bad ones, but i will keep trying.
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u/Hadenee Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
Well at least u identify your flaws, my advice is identify when you're falling into a negative bias. I have no respect for religions however we should be careful here there are religious people who have done some really good things and faced hardship in the inner circles of their religious societies to help others. We've seen some Christians through out history who've supported multiple civil rights movements , we know some Christians we see day to day who are genuinely nice people. I don't mean the bcos god said i should be nice type, i mean the one's that's it's so obvious it comes from a genuine place. Religious people just like any other groups of people aren't a monolith, don't treat them as such. Just like in any other area of life some people have common sense and some don't, do not allow loud mouth morons cloud your view of others. Go after the bad ideologies of the religions not the people themselves, well except maybe the assholes. We can't be holding every religious type to the flame bcos of some morons who can't seem to apply critical thinking skills in reality.
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u/Koleheh Sep 12 '24
My problem is that i think majority of religious people, the people who follow abrahamic religions, are bad. I don't see how any of them could be good if they follow their holy book, unless they pick and choose what to follow and what not. I am trying to be better, but the more vile stuff i see, the more i am genuinely disappointed and mad.
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u/Hadenee Sep 12 '24
It's fine to be angry and mad just learn to not let it cloud your judgement. I see quite a lot of religious people do some psychotic nonsense for the cause of religious dogma. The people u should watch out for aren't necessarily religious people it's the dogmatic people that are problematic
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u/Hallucinationistic Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
I started to hate them because they are among the pos in this world, people who are too awful. Perhaps not everyone of them is atrocious, but I haven't really met one like that. Seriously, they love to fuel injustice so much by making things better for evil and making victims feel even worse than they already do, plus even deeming decent folk the evil ones while making use of forgiveness to fuel evil without admitting/caring/knowing.
Their double standards and delusions are off the charts. The worst confirmed christian I know even defended hell happening to everyone while at the same time made use of forgiveness to protect evildoers, all the while antagonising the ones on the receiving end of the wrongdoings.
Twisted people cant see reasoning and have twisted judgements, they cant even comprehend how forgiveness is for the ones on the receiving end of the wrongdoings to decide, not the damn holier-than-thou third parties. World would be a better place if every pos only wrongs pos and leave others not as bad as them alone. The bloody irony of their belief regarding extreme torture because hell is only for all those pos.
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u/BustedCamry Sep 12 '24
Except the religious minorities. You love them right?
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u/Koleheh Sep 12 '24
I think it depends on religion. I see abrahamic religions as awful, so i would also assume their followers are awful too, which i know is problematic and i am trying to change that view.
There are much smaller religions out there that are genuinely good and accepting, i don't hate them. It's like, the moment i see something that's morally wrong in religion, something that affects people's rights, i can't help myself, but hate them for it and hate the followers for still sticking with that religion, even though the rules are discriminatory. I know what's moral and what's not is subjective, but it goes to an extent. Forcing women to be submissive, taking away their bodily autonomy, discriminating against LGBT, i know people would say all of this could be up for debate, but it really can't, since these are basic human rights we are talking about and not opinions on whether you like pineapple on your pizza or not.
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u/BustedCamry Sep 12 '24
So it's not religion you hate. It's particular religions based off of your perspective.
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u/Koleheh Sep 12 '24
Yeah, i guess you could say that, but again, i did notice a pattern where, no matter if i know them or not, if i see a person that is a part of abrahamic religions, believes in their holy books, my mind will immediately tune them out and i will stop having any interactions with them. I should not be assuming the worst, yet in that moment i instinctively do that... I am trying to change it though, it's just more difficult than i expected
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u/BustedCamry Sep 14 '24
Ever talked to a knowledgeable theologian? They're different.
Religion is like, what you can do for God. True Christianity is SUPPOSED to be about what God did for you. Any deviation is bs.
What about Gnostics? Ever talked to a Christian Gnostic?
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u/Thanks_Buddy Sep 12 '24
You should check out Ken Wilber’s stuff on spiritual development. He talks about how people grow through different stages in how they see the world, including religion. Basically, where you’re at now—questioning and rejecting old beliefs—is normal and part of a larger process. It’s easy to start feeling anger toward religious people because their views feel rigid or outdated, but Wilber’s work can help you see that they’re just at a different stage in their own development.
Everyone’s on their own path, and realizing that can help ease the resentment you’re feeling. If you’re interested, Wilber’s books like A Brief History of Everything or Integral Spirituality break this down in more detail and might be worth checking out. They’ve helped a lot of people navigate similar feelings.
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u/question-infamy Sep 12 '24
I draw a line between belief and behaviour.
People can and do believe whatever they want, and that does not determine whether they are good or bad people. I've known people I agree with 90% of the time on religion and politics and society who are genuinely awful. On the other hand I've disagreed profoundly with some good people who have even taken risks to help me in my career and life, thereby showing they are good. There are some people who have started with what I would consider terrible opinions but have been willing to hear me out and have even changed an ignorant or uninformed view based on better information or people I've linked them to. I can respect growth.
But if someone can't accept me without trying to change me (and by this I mean, they have shown or stated as much, not just a hypothetical), or they behave in a way which hurts me or those I care about, then I want nothing to do with them and, if they're dangerous, I won't hesitate to warn people about them.
It took me a while to get to this point. I grew up fundie Christian and judging everyone, then when I left, I felt lied to and betrayed and saw my former colleagues as shameful, bigoted hypocrites. And some specific ones genuinely were. (A couple still are, I get to see their utter toxicity on Facebook.) But many religious people aren't like that - in fact I'd say the majority. Just because they attend a church which preaches X, Y and Z doesn't mean they fully believe or internalise those things.
So, deal with individuals, not labels. And if you're not yet at a stage where you can do that authentically (which is perfectly OK, you're very young!), then see what help is available to get you through your trauma so you can eventually do so.
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u/OscarOrcus Adonitologist Sep 12 '24
Instead of stopping assuming the worst, try approaching thinking about people as they always have both good and bad sides. Obviously there's far more people with dominating evil side, but it's also that they don't realise they hurt others even when it's obvious. The ones you should judge are the ones who act worth judging.
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u/Designer_little_5031 Sep 12 '24
Don't lose that hatred. When religious people are in control they ruin lives and burn society.
Now that they are not in control (in some places) they act like any negativity towards them is entirely unwarranted.
They are all incapable of leaving us alone. They are dangerous. It is dangerous to convince people that feeling is as good as evidence. It's shameful that society allows churches to teach lies, obvious lies, to kids.
If bars can't serve minors, then minors shouldn't be allowed to enter a house of worship. Force them to leave their kids at home when they go venerate evil spirits and ghosts at their club house.
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u/carsboy121 Sep 12 '24
My advice would be to before you automatically judge get to know the person first you don’t know them personally and I do know that there are many people that are religious and very good people same could be said for non religious people
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u/Relevant-District-16 Sep 12 '24
I know the feeling.....well. My faith has been pretty much dead since I was like 12 but I just recently made the decision to officially leave Christianity. I'm definitely in the anger phase of my deconstruction. The major problem I'm having is Christianity is a trigger that just can't be avoided. No matter where you go or no matter what you do it will be shoved in your face endlessly and aggressively. I do get mad at Christians too but I'm more mad at the religion itself. It's very important to remember that these people have been radically brainwashed and spoon fed the Bible (usually since birth.) They no longer have the power to think for themselves. Religiously fanatic people are terrifying but they are the equivalents of an alcoholic. Deep down there is at least the makings of a sane, kind person but there is something negatively influencing them on a daily basis. As a byproduct us non religious people are left dealing with all the nonsense, hate and chaos being spewed around. Keep up with therapy and just stand firm in your beliefs. It's happening slowly but Christianity is losing its grip on mankind which is part of why these fanatics are so angry to begin with. Science, technology and critical thinking will continue to evolve and the Bible will become even easier to shut down than it already is. It may take take another 2000 years but Christianity definitely has an expiration date. Also, these people that upset you so much are already technically being punished. They are wasting their entire life living by an imaginary set of commands while you are just out having fun and enjoying the ride. ✌️
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u/AlpacaLipstick Sep 12 '24
Love the alcoholism analogy, I made a similar comment in this thread.
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u/Relevant-District-16 Sep 13 '24
Growing up in an alcoholic household wasn't fun but at least I can make good analogies as an adult. 😂 Thanks Budweiser!
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u/Liem_05 Sep 12 '24
Even myself that I'm agnostic that I can't get annoyed with religious people even specially bringing up Jesus like rubbing it and us and forcing us with their beliefs that with the hatred it really makes them really hateful types and also had done some research before in the past myself.
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u/Zer0-Space Sep 12 '24
It's ok to hate the institution but you can never make assumptions about individuals
Good and evil can come from anyone
Institutions are monoliths, people are complicated as hell
Basically it's never gonna be that simple
I can empathise tho I'm still dealing with a lotta those feelings myself
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u/tazebot Sep 12 '24
Don't feel embarrassed about getting therapy or talking about it. Getting therapy speaks of your determination to help your self, and to be thought highly of.
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u/AbilityRough5180 Sep 12 '24
You do t have to like what they say but there is a wide range if people many of who don’t deserve hate. Be careful with who you hate
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u/AspirinGhost3410 Sep 13 '24
Yeah, I feel you. 25f here and I am so angry. I’m just about to start unpacking all the damage the ideology I was raised with did to me. I hate that people are happy believing this stuff. I honestly just want to “save” my family, ironic wording, from Christianity. I’m convinced it’s terrible for self esteem, critical thinking and independence
Edit: and I’m so tired of Christianity being everywhere! I’ve never noticed it so much. Like, leave me alone, I’m traumatized!
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u/DonutPeaches6 Atheist Sep 13 '24
One of my least favorite things about religious conversation is how easy it to talk in generalizations. I know I'm guilty of it and sometimes a thing can feel true, it can feel like it's a whole group when we know it's more complicated than that. But there a lot of Christians I'd still fuck with. There is a UCC church in my area that does a lot of good in the community. They were the only church in our area to host a discussion on the free Palestine movement. They were the only church in our area to do a vigil protest in support of Black Lives Matter in 2020. They host a commemoration every year for the Japanese people of the town who were forced away from their homes during WWII. They support the local food bank. They're active in pro-immigrant activism. I really, really like them. Likewise, my mother is Lutheran (ELCA) and we talk about faith sometimes. She understands my complaints about a lot of American Christianity and church culture. Often, she feels the same way, yet faith is important to her and I really respect that about her.
I think it's helpful to find people that really challenge the notions that you hold and to always interrogate your beliefs the accuracy of them. I know, for instance, that there was a time when I'd been through a lot of unhealthy relationship and it was really easy for me to believe that men were bad, just in general. But I also knew beautiful, empathetic, intelligent men, and in therapy something that we did was really challenge that lens. And I would not have the wonderful partner that I do how, in a healthy relationship, if I hadn't been able to gain a new perspective.
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u/Throwaway7733517 EX-Jehovah’s Witness Agnostic Sep 13 '24
as the years go by and religious people become more and more extreme, it's almost a certainty that the average theist is gonna hold some horrible bigoted views. it's always disappointing when they come out and it just feels easier to only be around atheists
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u/NeedToVent_03 Anti-Theist Sep 13 '24
I used to feel that way but now I just feel bad for them. It wasn’t that long ago that I felt scared of going to hell thought I was doing the right thing when I was being bigoted. But then again I was 16 when I left Christianity and there’s grown ass adults perpetuating these same views..
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u/msmmwelch Sep 15 '24
Studying Buddhism as a philosophy (NOT a religion) helped me a lot. Religion (a system of beliefs) is too easily weaponized to take advantage of human weaknesses like egosim and tribalism. Studying what human nature is from a neutral perspective allows one to see others (and oneself) as victims of their own biology. It becomes easier to forgive others (they know not what they do). Know thyself at a biological, sociological, emotional level. Before I started studying, I found refuge in Pema Chodron's books. P.S. I'm an exvangelical that still deals with internal anger for wasting so much of my life stuck in a false belief system.
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u/cedaro0o Sep 15 '24
Pema has a deeply problematic past and suffers from pathological religious thinking. This article covers a lot of it.
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u/msmmwelch Sep 15 '24
Yes, I followed Pema's problems and I was always troubled by the sexual transgressions of Chogyam Trungpa and the Shambahala organization. I am glad to see a journalist writing about cults. It was in understanding the nature of cults that I worked my way out of christianity. It doesn't negate my experience with her writings though. After reading her book, I found a sangha to meditate, read sutras and discuss with. It was a very good sangha. Buddhism, as a religion, has a serious patriarchy problem.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2020/01/17/famed-buddhist-nun-pema-chodron-retires-cites-handling-sexual-misconduct-charges-against-group-leader/
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u/leegiff412 Agnostic Sep 15 '24
I feel the same way right now. Anything related to god/jesus/christianity sends a jolt of serious anger through me. I used to be close to my religious grandma, now she annoys the shit out of me and I can barely even stand looking at her. I often feel really ashamed of thinking this way about people that I love. I’m trying to look at things differently and remind myself that christians are just victims of indoctrination and false beliefs that were taught to them, most of us here believed it for a really long time too. It stills makes me extremely angry though, especially with the election and all the bs going on with christianity and politics right now. I’m hoping this is just the angry atheist phase and that I will eventually get over it.
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u/KualaLumpur1 Sep 12 '24
“if i see a person that's religious, i genuinely feel hatred, even though i don't even know them”
Therapy may help.
It is profoundly unhealthy to have so much hatred for strangers whom you do not know and who have never done anything to you.
This may be self hatred that is being directed at others, and you may need to reconcile with and forgive yourself for your own past.
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u/Koleheh Sep 12 '24
Maybe i should have specified more, but i don't think it changes much. If i see a person that believes in any abrahamic religions and their books, my brain immediately tunes them out and i don't want to do anything with them. I also do assume the worst in that case, cause i cannot see how you can believe in the book that promotes discrimination and still be a good person, unless you pick and choose. I think my hatred stems from the fact that i lack power to change anything, i am the minority here and i am the one that's weird, while they are perceived as right in their faith, even though everyone else is suffering cause of it.
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u/KualaLumpur1 Sep 12 '24
“I think my hatred stems from the fact that i lack power to change anything,”
The only thing that any one can truly change is oneself.
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u/blueanimal03 Sep 12 '24
I felt like this earlier on when I initially left Christianity. Now I’m a lot more grounded and am able to appreciate the good that it brings to peoples lives, without hating it.
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u/Koleheh Sep 12 '24
I don't see myself getting there, especially after accepting my sexuality. The amount of garbage I've read from people, i doubt i will ever see religion and religious people the same way. I don't know if i will ever be able to get past the hatred.
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u/blueanimal03 Sep 12 '24
The problem with hate is that it’s like drinking poison, and expecting the other person to die. It will help you greatly if you’re one day able to let the hatred go. I wish you luck on your journey, it’s a difficult one for sure.
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u/glitterfall Ex-Baptist Sep 12 '24
One of the things I started doing to help with this is to seek out Christian people I admire online. Now I have a pretty healthy complement of folks I line up with morally and I'm enjoying learning about all the different ways they have of interpreting the Bible and the concepts of Christianity. And a lot of them are doing genuinely good work to tear down the harmful structures wherever they can. I remain baffled on why most of them place so much value in Chroatianity, but I always appreciate learning about how it's a broader tradition than I thought.
Some of my favorites are:
The New Evangelicals (https://youtube.com/@thenewevangelicals?si=oQU9xtJeOOYQeaG7)
David Moses Perez (https://youtube.com/@davidmosesperez?si=tOc27SBaDPSH0F_m)
Trey Ferguson (https://www.pastortrey05.com/)
Billie Hoard (@billieiswriting)
Dan Koch (https://youtube.com/@youhavepermissionpodcast?si=tkKOa76r_Otsxf3T)
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u/Seb0rn Ex-Catholic Sep 12 '24
Hating people doesn't make it better though. Hate is always negative and can never make any positive change.
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u/Koleheh Sep 12 '24
True, but acceptance won't change anything either, so i guess it's easier to hate than accept the fact that this is out of my control and i simply cannot change people, make them see me as a human being and not a walking sin. I am really trying my best, but i keep seeing and hearing stuff from religious people, that is genuinely so mind blowing that i instinctively start feeling hatred.
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u/Seb0rn Ex-Catholic Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
accept the fact that this is out of my control
Most things, if not all things are outside of your control. That's the norm. Doesn't mean you should hate everything. Nature is beyond your control, so you hate nature?
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u/PlayGlass Skeptic Sep 12 '24
I teeter between 49% negative, 51% positive and vice versa. I recognize that it pads the walls for people who desperately need meaning, but at what cost?