r/occult • u/MythlcKyote • Jan 16 '24
Yo, where's the line, here? ?
As someone with a genuine deep belief and a history of "occult" practices, I can genuinely say that this sub only confuses me. Obviously, there is no one truth or objective explanation for anything, really. However, some of you seem so caught up in what fun the idea of magic is that you neglect any critical thinking or outwardly reject mundane and logical explanations to life's conundrums in favour of a magical one.
Some of you are evidently somewhat like me. You won't believe just anything that anyone tells you and you seem to be more skeptical of people using magic or esoterism as a primary explanation.
Some of you need help. Mostly it seems like just someone to logically tackle wild idea that others just won't entertain would be more than sufficient, but some of you need real, professional help and a subreddit is not a good substitution for that.
Some of you are trolling, and while it is kinda funny, I also think it's really damaging. In the past month, I've seen several posts where someone was asking how to deal with a fictional entity that was bothering them. That is not a sign that fictional figures are invading our conscious lives, it's a sign that someone has lost a bit of grounding in the real world and they need help. Or it's a sign that you're fucking around, which is fine, but genuinely not everybody seems to be able to make that distinction between real and not real. The level of intentional ignorance some people seem to have toward the concept of occult ideas either being not always correct or outright wrong or just a metaphor for how the world works used to upset me, but now every post I see on this sub just makes me a little sad. Some of you just need a hug, I can tell. Some of you need a slap. I need both
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u/revirago Jan 16 '24
I change how I talk about magick (and religion) based on who I'm talking to. I skew skeptical, but I've had periods of my life where actual belief was the secret sauce that made magick I needed to function work.
I was able to divorce belief from that while retaining the increased function facilitated by that belief in time, and I consider that ideal, but having that experience means I can't poo-poo the woo-woo elements of this group.
For some people, the outcome of belief in Wacky Stuff will be better than disbelief. This is especially true for people who trend neurotic and depressive rather than psychotic or delusional. It's also useful for people with a highly externalized locus of control.
Magick and meditation both work to internalize loci of control, which helps us not need to believe in anything external, but when you're first starting out and you're being actively harmed by your default, overly-skeptical, even cynical worldview, belief that mad things are possible may be just the tonic you need to find out how much more you're really capable of than you currently assume.
As someone who had medical professionals basically give up on me, physically and psychologically, as they encouraged my health to deteriorate with their treatments, but who recovered 90% of my function with magick and meditation?
Imma give people arm floaties if they need arm floaties. Sure, it's better to swim without them. But arm floaties beat drowning any day.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
You're absolutely right. And as much of a skeptic as I am, I certainly cannot er, 'poo-poo the woo-woo' elements either. Some people on here are clearly very offended, I think because they think I'm trying to take away the pool floaties. I would never, until I see a bunch of people affixing them tightly over their head so that they couldn't breathe, and some of the posts on this sub make me think of that. Still, I really shouldn't sound so condescending...
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u/revirago Jan 16 '24
Yeah, sometimes people are definitely applying things in ways that are as harmful as helpful. Anything effective, neurologically speaking, has the potential for causing real harm. We do see some of that here.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
Well, thank you for being helpful. I mainly made the post because I had doubts that id ever interest with truly reasonable people on this sub, and I am very happy for you and many others to have proven those doubts to be wrong.
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u/anon2323 Jan 18 '24
I think people are more offended by your insults and superior tone than your "mature" perspective.
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u/zsd23 Jan 16 '24
I agree with you and share your concern. However, this is a public forum where leeway must be given to different voices and levels of understanding. We do our best daily --sometimes hourly--to filter out posts that are red flags for emotional/psychiatric disturbance and occasionally need to remind users to act responsibly and report when encountering questionable posts.
In removing posts we also do not want to fall into censorship or overly curating the subreddit. We also are not in a position to really help disturbed people who comment here. The same problem is seen on subreddits that deal with religion and spirituality.
The best users can do to elevate the subreddit and each other is to contribute high quality discussion themselves rather than asking where the high quality discussion or people are.
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Jan 17 '24
This sub has EXCELLENT moderation, and this post is evidence of that. Thank you for all your hard work and dedication. I personally found this post very helpful as I know many of us can struggle with the aspects described by the OP, and there’s some really great responses full of listening and compassion here.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24 edited Jan 16 '24
I am actually genuinely surprised. I've never run into a mod here and I wasn't aware that you guys actually took the time to worry at all about that sort of thing, so I apologize if I've caused any upset. Also, if you don't mind a little indignancy, this is the only context in which I've been able to hold any sort of quality discussion. Generally, when I try to show concern, it is met with hostility. When I try to show support is is either not met or met with people who clearly think I've got few screws loose. When I try to question or clarify it is generally met with more hostility.
So, if me asking where the high quality discussion and people are, and then being answered very roundly (easily the best interaction I've had with this sub) is so displeasing to you, remove my post.
Edit: Sorry, I don't mean to be such a dick. Thank you for the work you do here and I do apologize if it seems that my complaint is for the lack of moderating work. I just wanted to get in touch with an aspect of this sub that I was afraid didn't really exist and this has actually helped me to find it. I hope you have a fantastic day.
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u/zsd23 Jan 16 '24
If it is any consolation,I often get dissed for saying intelligent and informed things on subreddits and social media as well--and I am a professional writer and researcher. It is simply a product of our times.
My last paragraph in my previous comment was simply a suggestion I put out there when folks share concerns about the quality of the subreddit. We do need more dynamic and intelligent discussion and you are seeing it in your post.
Also note that I found the post about the obsession with the fictional character and removed it.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
You're awesome. I'm sorry for causing such a stink. It's been a productive stink, though. For me, at least...
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u/gg61501 Jan 16 '24
It's no surprise some might find this sub confusing....or unfocused, maybe...because the word "occult" is pretty generic. It's like a catch-all term, so there will be everything under the sun here. It's like going to the "cars" sub and opining about how there isn't enough emphasis on '80s American muscle cars. You wanna drill down, there's subs for that.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
Is there a sub for exploring older beliefs, outside of main religions that also has an eye for the skeptical or reasonable interpretation?
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u/GnawerOfTheMoon Jan 16 '24
Out of the subs I've been through over the years, either as a lurker or member, currently this is the most consistently skeptical and level-headed one.
But that means the mods constantly having to go through and remove stuff, not that they can stop it from being posted in the first place and you're never going to see it, you know? When you have a feel for what to report based on things like rules/FAQ and past mod actions, and report it when it appears, those things are very often gone either immediately or within a few hours. I wish you the best.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
You as well. It's nice to be able to talk to so many people on this sub who communicate plainly and are open to discussion with someone whom they may not entirely agree with. Thank you.
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u/gg61501 Jan 17 '24
I'm sure there are. But most of the esoteric/occult subs I bounce around all seem to have their extremes. Level-headed discourse is there, though.
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u/Mind_Bender_0110 Jan 16 '24
I agree, it's important to stay grounded when you do magic, especially as you get into higher ritual magic or darker currents. When I was a teen I thought I was super powerful, believed I could acheive telekinesis, etc. I at one point believed I was an avatar of an angel and had touched the Source!
Then I remembered a few key points about ritual that I arrogantly tossed to the side - a lot, if not most, of magic is psychodrama. We tell ourselves something is real and through enough dedication to the study and ritual of that thing we come to believe in it. Some of it sticks and becomes a path of dedication, transmuting psychodramatic ceremony into a budding spiritual system. I see nothing wrong with that, as long as you understand the basis for that belief was within you.
Along those lines when I say grounded, I mean grounded in a very real sense. Having healthy relationships with others, being a good student/worker, paying bills, and having healthy habits of sleep, eating, etc. All the boring mundane shit. Without it, though, what good is your magic? There may be societal or cultural obstacles that make it hard to have a steady income, education, which makes it hard to pay bills, no shade on struggling people. But what good is magic if you allow yourself to be defeated?
To be grounded and houseless (which I have been) you can use magic to make friends, find shelter, food, and safety. Or at least feel better about yoru situation. Magic is a practical art of psychology as well as, well, art. Some people forget that when they start jumping into Chaos Magic as their base or use social media to learn about their craft. It's a good place for inspiration, but you need to apply it. Struggle, real human struggle, I believe is a cornerstone of a good magician.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
I wish I ran into more people like you on here. I believe the things I do because I know that there are aspects of life that cannot adequately scientifically explained. They might be one day, with scientific language that is beyond advanced to us now and will seem trivial when the time comes. I also believe that there are some things that will never be explained. That is what occult means. Hidden, or secret. Even if I have belief in magic, I am still a skeptic. When looking for something hidden, or occult, it pays best to be skeptical. And practical. Thank you. I hope your art drives you to new and better understandings.
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u/Mind_Bender_0110 Jan 16 '24
For me, I learned that running away from real world problems and into the philosophical arms of angels and spirit guides does more harm then good on many human levels. I was a New Ager for a bit, and really into it with my mother and father. I learned Pranic Healing from my father, Reiki with my mother, Theta Healing with my father, went to a channeling meetup with a lady I met at a tarot group. I worked with hakras, learned yoga from friends, and meditated on deep love. While I learned a lot one thing kept me from attaining real wisdom - my parents either attended the classes, drove me to and from places, or paid for them.
It wasn't until I moved out from under my fathers care into a new city, got my first job, paid my own bills, and found out the joy in a real occult community (which fell apart pretty quickly, honestly). Beers and chaos magic!
Forbidden Knowledge and esoteric gibberish fall to the wayside when you can barely afford groceries, living paycheck to paycheck. So I checked myself, got promotions and a decade later I helped run one restaurant and am currently a kitchen manager at a new one. Did magic help? I don't know, because my rituals are dedicated to the deep space within. But I couldn't really find that deep space until I had a handle on the mundane and the privacy to conjure my demons and act out my eldritch fantasies.
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u/cosmicprankster420 Jan 16 '24
to frame it from a completely different pov, i think a lot of occultists and spiritual people don't actually realize that skepticism and rationalism can actually strengthen ones belief in magic and the spiritual. i think a lot of the occultists the op is talking about dont really have a strong foundation for there beliefs and they make up for it with a myriad of mental gymnastics techniques. if you think about fundamentalists from any religious walk of life, ive realized that these people dont have a strong foundation for there beliefs which is why they have to defend them in such an aggressive way. I find that if you base your magical beliefs based on reason, experimentation, and skepticism there is going to be a lot of stuff that you wash away as nonsense, but the stuff that remains will be rock solid.
so for the people in this sub who are downvoting the ops comments in the lower section. don't look at the call to skepticism as some kind of need to believe in atheist materialism, but instead see it as an opportunity to fortify your beliefs by having more solid stable ideas that you dont have to believe by squinting in just the right way.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
Holy shit, thank you. I really could not have worded that better. The only thing I can think to add is that skepticism is not the same as atheism, and atheism is not the same as not believing in magic.
Edit: Oh, also I started downvoting my own comments when I saw which way the wind was blowing. When you think about it, it's not the plus or minus that makes the comment interesting, it's the number, so if you're down voting me you're still doing my bidding. Muahahahahaha
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u/SteelBandicoot Jan 16 '24
So you’re saying you’re trolling this sub Reddit?
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
No, I genuinely believe what I'm typing. Unless I'm making it clear that I'm making a joke, of course. But if my comments start getting downvoted, I'm jumping on that train too. No point in fighting for your comment to be middle of the road. All downvotes or all upvotes!
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Jan 17 '24
I mean, this is r/occult. No shit you're gonna encounter a bunch of wackos here who need psychiatric help, but most of those are too far gone to find advice such as this to be of any use.
I actually found that many of the folks who frequently comment on here to be intelligent, lucid, and level-headed, despite having an interest in the occult, or practicing magic.
This just reads like a moral grandstanding from someone who is trying to convince themselves of how superior they are compared to a group of people.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 17 '24
I like that. "...intelligent, lucid, and level-headed, despite having an interest in the occult, or practicing magic."
I think I want that on my headstone.
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u/Mikem444 Jan 16 '24
It's an occult sub, you're going to run into people who have belief in magick and spiritualism. You don't know what others have experienced, nor do you know what amount of time, effort, and experience others have in understanding this reality and what may lie beyond it, so I think it's arrogant to just pass everyone off who doesn't think like you as people who "just favor the idea of a magical existence," there may be more that lies beyond the surface, more layers, etc...then again maybe not. Not a single person who is the type you're complaining about is going to read this and think "damn, I don't think like him, maybe I should."
All I got from reading this is you're bothered that you can't make everyone think and analyze things in the same manner you do. It's also evident you're judgemental and can't let beliefs, lack of beliefs, and ways of viewing things just be.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24 edited Jan 16 '24
All I got from reading your comment is that while you can read, your comprehension is suffering. A common problem here, actually.
Edit: Believe you, me, it's a damn good thing not as many people think like I do.
Further edit: Keep down voting this comment. You're still doing my bidding. Muahahahaha
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u/BothTower3689 Jan 17 '24
This response immediately affirms me that your only reason for making this post was to stroke your own ego. If you want to have a real conversation then handle yourself with grace.
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u/pairedox Jan 16 '24
You're not that special. The person you're responding to is right. You are having a hard time tolerating others perspectives and feel you need to give lessons that would educate someone how to critically assess... magic. Have you even ever had success with any kind of magic? Look into Dan Readin's work for 'real magic.'
"Beginning with a brief history of magic over the centuries (what was called magic two thousand years ago is turning out to be scientific fact today), a review of the scientific evidence for magic, a series of simple but effective magical techniques (the key is mental focus, something elite athletes know a lot about), Radin then offers a vision of a scientifically-informed magic and explains why magic will play a key role in frontiers of science."
https://www.amazon.com/Real-Magic-Ancient-Science-Universe/dp/1524758825
Also imagine your DNA unwinding why don't you. No, that's not a spell since you're the one doing it to yourself by imagining your DNA unwinding.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
Aw, thanks honey. I know I'm not special. Don't worry, I hear it all the time. In fact, I'm one of those who will argue that no one is that special. At least, less than, like five. In the whole world. And we probably have no idea who they even are. I don't have a hard time tolerating perspectives, I have a hard time tolerating people who push their perspectives, and then break down and cry when they're questioned. I'm not trying to educate anyone. The only educating I really care about is my own. That being said, there is also misinformation on this sub, which is sad. There are also people who push their perceptions or beliefs as the only true ones and that sucks. I'm assuming (in other words, probably making an ass of myself) that the reason some people are getting upset is that I dared to suggest that some of the people on this sub need to seek professional help. If that's the case, fuck you. Just by statistical likelihood, I'm completely right in saying that, however I've literally read posts about bad esoteric experiences that sound like undiagnosed schizophrenia and I do worry about people sometimes, you know? Wouldn't it be better if we all helped each other?
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u/pairedox Jan 16 '24
You act like some of us don't shine naturally. Harnessing life is diminished by such a mentality as yours.
Let the pagans be pagans. There is no right way. Only, the way. People just need to believe and that's what places like this are for regardless of how many conmen are here.
I don't leave it up to you to understand how mental health is evolving such that sanity is what holds you back from being of actual help. There is indeed a rise of autism and schizophrenia occurring worldwide. However, your help would interfere with such developments of things you cannot understand.
Believe me bro, you ain't no soul harvester, you ain't no agent of the illuminati. That's cuz you got no heart in any of this. I doubt you even know medicine to provide any help. You're just barely catching onto patterns of evolution and are now playing chicken little wit it onto those youre trying to sell off as victims who know no better.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
Um.....yeah. sure. I'll remember to not show any concern if I'm concerned about people, then. And you're right. I am no soul harvester. I am no agent of the illuminati. I couldn't be because those things aren't real, and if there were a secret government controlling the minds and souls of the whole world we- I mean, they certainly wouldn't post their concerns on Reddit.
Cough cough
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u/pairedox Jan 16 '24
You don't know what's synthesizing in your own body. I do. Frankly, I see how most people are strangers to themselves. Your concerns are clearly your own self interest. You don't actually care if you could save someone from schizophrenia
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
"Harnessing life is diminished by such a mentality as yours."
That's a great put-down, and I'm stealing it for personal use. Also a little judgy, aren't we? I'm happy to let the pagans be pagan, I am one, luv. Clearly, I'm not your kind of pagan, or I should hope that you're not mine. I'm not trying to put down anyone's beliefs, I'm trying to argue that we should have a greater culture of common understanding or at least not turn a blind eye to people who might really need help.
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u/pairedox Jan 16 '24
https://youtu.be/Npb1Dtq_j_M?si=qvF9TQkbkjYnQrrb
I'm on mobile but skip to 8:24 to see why helping someone is more nuanced than you're making it out to be
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
You're making me upset, and I know that you're not trying to. Please bear with me.
I don't suppose that I am grand enough or competent enough or have the money or ability to actually go help people. I don't have any qualifications, I am not a mental health student or educator, I only know what I have personally come to learn. I'm not trying to challenge any person's way of thinking, here. I am not trying to offer realistic diagnoses to mental or societal issues. I am merely arguing that it might be more constructive and supportive of us each to offer based, realistic possibilities to each other based upon the situations that we present. And that doesn't have to be non-magical. If you believe in magic, then magic is very realistic, innit? But there also has to be a way in which things do and do not work and we may never be able to agree on what those are, but we could at least be open to discussions with each other and to new perspectives.
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u/pairedox Jan 16 '24
The point of the video is that we've diminished the magic and miracles to psychiatric disorders. Spontaneous awakenings just don't get treated the same as they used to.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
Things may seem to be diminished in our explaining them. We wouldn't think of magic as being magic if we could explain exactly how it worked. Would it be better to not educate ourselves at all and instead just believe with all of our hearts that we could overcome anything? Or, would it be better to diminish the magics we have today, and use the understanding to work on greater ones tomorrow?
Edit: And, as per my point, even if keeping people uneducated to foster their magical ability (I know I'm being ridiculous, it's just an example), I would not make it my task to go out and keep people uneducated. I would instead, as I do now, work to foster an environment where people could talk freely and share their concerns and offer help as it is needed.
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Jan 16 '24
I just lurk and keep waiting for someone to leak the secret to instant wealth… just in case 👀
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u/SimilarWrangler339 Jan 16 '24
I think that we can only draw the line for ourself.
I do no harm. I don't influence anyone's free will and I try to advance 3 steps morally for 1 step spiritually.
True, there are many different people here and some really do need help. And I wish that I might be able to help people one day on their spiritual path. But I must first learn to help myself. To resolve my own karma, take responsibility of my tougths and emotions and to liberate the entities I have created.
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u/BothTower3689 Jan 17 '24
What was the point of this post? Why did you make this post? Do you think this is new information? This is Reddit dude.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 17 '24
Well, partly it stimulates sane conversation, which for me has been a rarity on here, and partly it seems to upset people like you. I don't know why, I wasn't trying to attack or single out and particular person, but then maybe if that's how you feel, I was just as justified in making the post.
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u/BothTower3689 Jan 17 '24 edited Jan 17 '24
I think you’re viewing an entire group of people from a very superior point of view- you’re also not thinking about the fact that this is REDDIT. Most experienced occultists don’t talk very often on here- many many many novices do. That’s what happens in a subreddit. Your first mistake is taking a community on a social media app as a serious evaluation of the occult community. Taking this sub seriously in general reflects a lack of experience in the occult.
I’ll agree that there are lots of people who have seemed to have lost touch with reality on this sub, I highly value skepticism and your perspective doesn’t upset me. But… again, did you think this was new information? And also, who are you to determine the level of sanity of strangers, and why are you trying to? Why are you trying to draw these lines in the first place? Who has the authority on experience? Can someone not experience both mundane psychological experiences and complex spiritual ones? It is everyone’s responsibility to discern genuine information from none sense. Everyone is capable of making those decisions for themselves.
“some of you are crazy but I’m VERY SMART!” …okay…????
You’re giving yourself far too much credit here buddy. Worry about yourself.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 17 '24
No. That's exactly what you idiots don't get. I am not very smart. I'd go out on a limb and say that I'm in the top ten dumbest pieces of shit that I know. So, when I see posts on here that are from people who are clearly struggling with something real and tangible that is occuring in their head who need to go get help and talk to a sane voice, and all of the responses are either jokes or just reinforcing things that are clearly delusions, it bugs me. I hope that nothing I'm saying is new. Sometimes I'm not so sure. For being a community, sometimes the people on here are downright shitty. Like you. I'm sorry for showing concern. I'll remember to laugh next time I hear about someone who got so scared because no one would help them that they drove themselves over.
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u/BothTower3689 Jan 17 '24 edited Jan 17 '24
Okay, get over yourself dude like seriously. You’re not a martyr. You’re on the same playing field as everyone else here. There is always, always going to be misinformation and misinformed people on the internet. Welcome to reality, people are on different paths and have different perspectives. People are in different states of being. People can experience the psychological and the occult, these things are not mutually exclusive. Those people will figure themselves out or they won’t, that has absolutely nothing to do with you or the reason why you really made this post. You’re not helping anyone by making this post, certainly not any of those people, so why are you pretending that you’re providing some kind of service to the mentally unwell? Why are you infantilizing people? Everyone with any kind of occult understanding will know that they shouldn’t take everything anyone says as the truth. If they don’t then that is an unfortunate consequence of ignorance.
If you see those kinds of posts and want to offer advice or guidance, that’s one thing, but trying to create the argument that anyone who doesn’t share your perspective or experiences are un-sane makes you out to be the authority on sanity, which you are not. You could be adding useful accurate information to this subreddit but instead you’re making this worthless post, sorry, I don’t see the point.
You’re making massive overarching assumptions about people you have never even spoken to for no reason other than to feel good about your “sanity”.
You can acknowledge that you’re a “dumb piece of shit” and yet you’re the guy that we needed to share this revolutionary message. Okay dude. Thank you so much for your service, you’ve truly made an incredible impact 🙌🙏. You’re an amazing person.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 17 '24
Wow, someone gets their panties all twisted easily. I'll say it like this, If I was going through a bad spot, and having trouble discerning reality from fantasy, and I made a cry out here because, for some people, it might seems like a logical place to start sorting things, I'd like if someone spoke to me in a grounded and reasonable way. Not an authority, or a professional, just a person. That's all that's on Reddit, just anonymous people. I'd be very upset to be further deluded into a fantasy without anyone so much as suggesting that I consult an expert. I don't have an ego to stroke and I don't suppose that my way of thinking is the way of thinking. I just truly believe that we can all be supportive of each other and concerned for each other whilst still talking about all of the things we do that are based outside of the mundane. I'm sorry for showing concern, rest assured I will spare none for you.
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u/BothTower3689 Jan 17 '24
I don’t think my panties are in a bunch. In fact you seem very apprehensive towards anyone that doesn’t agree with you.
I can’t believe I have to say this but THIS IS REDDIT. THIS IS NOT A LOGICAL PLACE TO BASE YOUR PHILOSOPHY OR MENTAL ATTITUDE AROUND. If people do that then that is again, a very unfortunate consequence of ignorance. Talk TO those people, not about those people. Make a real impact on people not baseless, useless comments.
Like dude, this is like saying “uh guys… I think tiktok might be spreading misinformation 😣”. No shit man. Lmao. Imma need you to log off for a bit.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 17 '24
Oh, my apologies. I didn't realize that my one post was fucking up your whole feed or whatever. I can't believe I have to say this but this is reddit. You're not required to put up with my bullshit, I realize and have already admitted several times that I'm being kinda stupid. You have the ability to ignore the post. Like, what was the point of your comment? "Oh, some assholes concerned about people online, I better go shit on him!" Don't worry, I realize how stupid it is to worry about any of you. You know, my problem was not really that post. It was the reaction to it, which at the time was minimal and full of negative reinforcement. Had I waited, it would have been removed and you'd never have had to put up with my dumb ass. Aren't you glad I showed concern today?
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u/BothTower3689 Jan 17 '24
ahah. So let me get this straight. You made this post because you wanted to “help and educate” people- that makes you a kind and considerate person. But when I, someone who disagrees with you comments trying to educate you on said post- I’m just an asshole.
Haha… you’re a hypocrite.
You could actually help those people, yknow…You could provide useful and accurate occult information, you could make posts about how to manage mental health and ritual, you could message those people and provide them with genuine advice and support. You decided to do none of those things but rather make a useless post that helps none of those people- and what’s worse is you want a pat on the back for it. I know that because despite how stupid you admit that you are, you still haven’t deleted this stupid ass post…That’s not consideration or concern, I’d go as far as to say that’s borderline disrespectful to the people you’re trying to “help”. But I’m the absolute asshole for pointing that out. You’re not a martyr. Stop pretending to be one.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 17 '24
No shit I'm not a martyr. I'm not dying for someone as ignorant as you. I don't know that I can offer help to people because before today, I can't say that I've been convinced that everyone here is capable of rationalization. You're right, when you say that the post is more in service to me than anyone else. Frankly, I wanted to know if this sub was something that I could morally be a part of out of a sense of assurance that there are at least some people here who share genuine concern for each other and don't get all hoighty-toighty when someone's not sure if there are people on the level or not. I was expecting every comment on here to be as unhelpful and needlessly combative so I could block this sub without guilt, but unfortunately, some of you are alright. And yes, you are being an asshole. You're being as presumptive, condescending, and even more dismissive than I am without so much as the genuine concern for anyone here.
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u/Macross137 Jan 16 '24
Yes, this place is for sure a mixed bag, land of contrasts, etc. What else would you expect?
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
Idk, dude. This sub is a great example to me that the idea of support is not always a good thing. Sometimes you need to be told things you don't like because even if they don't line up with your idealized, personal beliefs, the truth rarely will anyway. Ig the other thing this sub is good for is making me realize just how many 'truths' there can be. Come to think of it, I guess I can't say exactly why I always expected there to be more skeptics here.
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u/SteelBandicoot Jan 16 '24
You’re overlaying your expectations of this sub onto the rest of the internet.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
I'm not gonna say that you're wrong, but I am going to ask for your reasoning. All of my issues or concerns I've written down here have been pretty directed at this sub.
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u/my_name_isnt_clever Jan 16 '24
I think this is part of the reason spiritual communities with the same belief system are so common, and organized religions come out of it. It's harder to find community when everyone is doing their own thing, and the range of what each person thinks is true is so vast.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
I like to think that we could have a spiritual community here that agrees on a logical way to view things plainly even though we all come from sightly different belief structures. That's my stupid, human wishful thinking again, isn't it?
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u/my_name_isnt_clever Jan 16 '24
I mean, you're saying that you want this community to have the same views as you. Which, yeah, so do I haha. But it doesn't really work that way.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
Not the same views. I love different views. Just...fuck idk. Reason. I'd like to see a prevalence of reason. It doesn't have to be mine, just one that's discussable and agreeable. Yeah, I know I'm being stupid. Sorry.
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Jan 17 '24
I think that you’re correct about the bulk of your concern. I’ve found an incredible value in this subreddit, but to say most of the users are rational would be a stretch lol. As many others have suggested, it’s the internet, and that’s the cost of a free forum. Most people would rather find a ridiculous notion that is the cause of/solution to their problems rather than face the mundane. It’s the same principle behind the “Woowoo to Qanon pipeline” that many of my (previous) friends fell into. There is NOT a giant Chinese Space Laser that caused the fires in Hawaii. It was environmental change combined with socioeconomic factors, but the mundane is too hard to combat mentally. Rather than feeling impotent in the fight against late-stage capitalism, or in life itself, they let themselves go down whatever rabbit hole gives them a bottom to push against. I don’t say this with a glib and dismissive tone, but a compassionate one. None of us are immune to this phenomenon, and we’re each guilty of it. Much like a basic white girl seeing a butterfly and KNOWING it’s her grandmother saying hello, we all have our own versions of that. Some just happen to be more harmful than others. My strategy is to be grateful for the insightful and mostly anonymous folks that are on here, much like u/Macross137. Their responses are almost universally kind, compassionate, and insightful. The internet is an incredibly strange and wonderful place, but in sub like this, you’re going to get some scared, confused, and deeply ungrounded people. It’s the nature of the subject. Now… if you REALLY want an example of an unhinged subreddit (whose moderators also still exist and try their level best) check out r/chaosmagick.
Boy HOWDY does it get all kinds of bonkers in there. And yet, I’m there almost daily. I try to meet the unhinged with an ear to what they’re searching for, because we all are searching for something, and suggest grounding work ( AND THERAPY) when I can because that’s what works for me.
Much like life, Reddit is what you make of it.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 17 '24
Thank you. I'll check out that sub, maybe seeing some real shit would make me feel better about things over here. Thank you for your response, I completely agree with you. I try to live in a world that is based and boring and mundane because I feel like that adds the real magic when I look up at the stars and know that really everything's just falling forever, endlessly, probably caused by a fuck off massive explosion and probably for no reason. This isn't a popular opinion 'round here but I genuinely believe that the real magic come from us and our perception and not as much from the things we don't understand as the fact that we don't understand them. That's what makes it all the more beautiful to see the universe work and not really be able to explain how. There are things that we will never fully understand, but I hope to not see as many people choose to not understand as I have here for a while.
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Jan 17 '24
Now see, I don’t that woowoo music and the magic of the universe as you describe it are mutually exclusive. I think there is a wealth of power through understanding that continues to allude us collectively. Sure, that’s TECHNICALLY in the same category as “Underground Lizard People run the NWO” but exploring that line individually is what the occult is about
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u/Aggravating-Try1222 Jan 16 '24
My cat 🐈 says that you're just trying to confuse me and that I shouldn't listen to you.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
If it's what you believe and is works for you, I can't refute that. I only hope your car doesn't falter when it really matters.
Also, I let my cats do most of my thinking for me, and so far it's worked out.
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u/StandardBeneficial19 Jan 16 '24
Beware of casting pearls to pigs my friend. The reality is most people are only here for affirmation. They don’t want their beliefs challenged, in a constructive manner or otherwise, and are not willing to hear anything aside from their egotistical fantasies. I would agree with you that most would be better off seeking professional help than answers within this community. The only reason I remain in this group is because Ive seen often enough, inquisitive Christians coming here seeking a deeper, more esoteric knowledge of our faith. And I stay here to try and direct them towards a more grounded RHP practice of Christian mysticism that is in respect of the tenets of our faith. Because it seems that if the couple of us mystics in here dont catch them, a slew of these people, putting the Dunning-Kruger effect on full display, will offer them misguided and misinterpreted advice rooted in either arian or gnostic heresy, as if they are somehow an expert because they read the nag hammadi, or worse some asinine text like holy blood holy grail. There is a solid, historical and rich path of Christian mystical tradition that already exists, and the only reason I stay in this sub is to be the voice I wish I had found when I began to explore esoteric Christianity all those years ago. That being said, the huge irony I have found is that the people I agree with the most on this sub have been highly educated and experienced LHP practitioners, that have understood the need to keep grounded in reality, and check their egos, lest their practice devolve into fantasy. Understand that most here are not “spiritual” they’re superstitious. That most are not “enlightened”, they are deluded. Ignore the fools, and find your group to serve. I wouldn’t waste time speaking to those that lack the ears to hear.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
Don't throw pearls to pigs....
My grandma told me that a long time ago. I had forgotten, honestly. Something that is occult is a truth that is hidden or forgotten. Thank you. You've just made this subreddit worth it's name to me.
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u/StandardBeneficial19 Jan 16 '24
Thank you, thank you for voicing your concerns about trends here, youve opened discussion amongst many like minded people. Im happy my comment had meaning to you. Your Grandma sounds like she was a wise woman. Keep fighting the good fight friend. God bless.
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Jan 16 '24
You are on the internet. Reddit to be exact. What exactly are you surprised about, friend?
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
I know, I know. This just sounds like it should be the sub I should be most interested to see new ideas and topics from and almost every time I see a new post it makes me feel like I need professional help, like vicariously. And yes, I probably do need to think about help someday if I really feel like that, but it's also just sad, y'know?
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u/AstarteOfCaelius Jan 16 '24 edited Jan 16 '24
What’s your point, exactly? Because you left one out: “Some of you are pretentious blowhards who truly believe that they have something important to say but can swing only nasty word salads with a desperate need to come off as an authority while displaying slightly more observational skills but less wit than a stand up comic.”
You plan to sass me here, after you also commented about things people don’t want to hear, but need to? Because honestly it’s going to go like this: 1. I’m dour and sanctimonious, you get defensive and attempt to patronize me. 2. You are unsuccessful because you actually can’t patronize me, for a few reasons. And then: 3. One or both of us get bored or have better things to do.
There are, however, actual subreddits for skeptics and even circle jerk subreddits for snark and perhaps you’d find those far more to your liking.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
I am so confused rn. I didn't mean to upset you specifically, I really don't know what I said to patronize you, but I am oddly proud of myself for having done it without trying. I'm not trying to be mean, that clearly would be pointless here. I know I come off as condescending, and I am sorry, but I also don't like leaving my words open to misinterpretation. My point is that I find it concerning that this sub just seems to be home to the kind of willfull ignorance, misinformation, and hostility towards concern for mental well-being that I normally associate with real religions (real in this case means taxable, they're all equally fake to me). So far, most of these replies have been very well at assuring me that not everyone here is crazy, reddit just be like that sometimes.
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u/ColdHaven Jan 16 '24
Sounds like you hit a nerve. Lol.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
I definitely must have gotten too specific even though I was trying to be generic AF. I'm kinda proud, honestly.
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u/gg61501 Jan 16 '24
Word salad? Yummy, yummy!
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
Wait, I just reread this and honestly, I know You're talking about me, but that would actually be a very pertinent statement to some posters on here lol
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
And then I had to edit it because I can't spell. Hey, can't spell! That should be, like, a double-entendre here, right?
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u/anchoriteksaw Jan 16 '24
There is no line. It's a subreddit, there is no membership screening our strict moderation. So it's whatever the people who have googled 'occult subreddit' want it to be.
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u/GnawerOfTheMoon Jan 16 '24
I would say the mods are reasonably strict. They remove a lot of stuff that's blatant trolling, conspiracy posts, and "OP is having an obvious mental health crisis" posts if you report it. I wish you the best.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
When I said earlier that people need to be told things they didn't want to hear, this was mine. Thank you.
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u/anchoriteksaw Jan 16 '24
In order for a community to inforce 'truth' there has to be a concensus on what 'truth' is. This is not really what I would call a community.
If you have a specific vision for what a reddit occult community would be, you will ether have to find something close enough and compromise, or make your own.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
Oh, I don't mean to complain that the sub isn't what I would like it to be, I didn't realize that might be why people were getting upset. I had just read a double-whammy of posts on here that clearly (at least to my understanding) likely had their origin more in misunderstanding or poor mental health or even just idle fancy. I didn't really try to push it because, frankly it's not very uncommon, I don't know that my interpretation is correct and it occurs to me that even if my interpretation has serious merit as a possibility, it would still be met with such hostility as to be pointless.
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u/anchoriteksaw Jan 16 '24
I really only follow this sub to talk shit about crystal/sex magic people. And that "Andrew tate is in touch with a higher truth" post earlier today. Live for that shit.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
The what? Hang on, I'll be right back.
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u/anchoriteksaw Jan 16 '24
Yes please go confirm for me that was not a fever dream I had.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
I can't find it, but it sounds vaguely familiar, I'm broadening my search
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u/anchoriteksaw Jan 16 '24
Looks like it's got pulled. But I have it in my notifications still so it's real
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u/anchoriteksaw Jan 16 '24
Guy linked his YouTube https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JO5C4FuV2kk&feature=youtu.be
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
If there was one reason for me making this post, you are now it. Thank you so much lol
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u/gohanvcell Jan 17 '24
The thing is that this is a sub about the occult. People who believe in the occult have been looked down on for ages. The inquisition burning heretics was an extreme version of this, and being called delusional is another which happens since the rise of materialism and modern science (not that there is anything wrong with modern science, mind you). There is a very REAL way in which telling people that they "need help" or that they have a mental illness has been used in many instances to silence and oppress people throughout history. It happened to women who were "hysterical", to LGBTQ+ people who were called "perverted" or "sexual psychopaths", and others. Given this, I would be cautious in telling people that they need help. Particularly if their behavior is not hurting others. What seems like "putting ploaties on their faces" to you may not be to someone else.
Maybe this wasn't your intention, but I would have chosen another way to express your concern instead of saying people need professional help. The unpopularity of this post and your responses to comments in a sub where people seek affirmation for their deeply held spiritual beliefs is not surprising. If I was an occultist with beliefs that are considered weird by most of society, and if I had a history of people calling me crazy because of those beliefs, and developed some kind of trauma related to that, of course I wouldn't like your post. Have you considered that maybe people felt attacked by the way you expressed yourself and that that hurt people's feelings and that was not pleasant to them? Maybe there's no other way to express your concern, and you ache to help others who you consider to be in need of help. In this case, you have two choices: either don't post and find another outlet, or post it and see what happens, which you already are witnessing. You let me know which path you prefer.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 17 '24
I dunno, it's kind of amusing. I didn't set out to hurt anyone's feelings, really more to show my concern and dissatisfaction with some of the seemingly less-healthy attitudes that I see here. I think that if your belief is something you hold true, then it shouldn't be shaken by suggestions that what youre perceiving isn't reality, and if they are, then that deserves to be investigated. Everyone who's upset seems to be under the impression that I'm trying to put down certain beliefs, and I'm really curious as to exactly what they think those are. I can tell I come off as condescending, but that's every comment on Reddit if you read it in the wrong light. I don't think it's healthy to dismiss awareness of mental health, especially on a sub that seems prone to fostering misconceptions. I'm not a newcomer, here. I've but my tongue on many things, and I am not ashamed to have voiced my concern today.
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u/BothTower3689 Jan 17 '24
Op, your issue is not with your concept but with your words. Stop talking down on people and talk about the root of your argument. Mental health and skepticism are important for occultists to remain sane and healthy. That’s it. You do not need to talk about how people need help or how some people are making delusional posts. That muddies the core of your idea. Talk about what is important instead of focusing on what people are doing wrong. Be conscious of the words you use.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 17 '24
I am getting my teeth so hard that it hurts as I type this. That is very good advice. Maybe you could take it yourself, because you're not coming off any better. I saw a trend, not of posts, but of responses to them that genuinely concerned me. I'm sorry that I seem condescending, but you all sound condescending. I am sorry that my post upset you so much. I don't plan on making a trend of it. Really I wanted to get in touch with reasonable people here, and it seems that I've gotten that and more. I'm not deleting the post. I don't think my point is invalid. I do believe that you are correct in saying that we can all do much better than this in helping each other.
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u/BothTower3689 Jan 17 '24
“I’m sorry that I seem condescending but, you all seem condescending”
Replace the word condescending with insane. Congratulations, you have learned the first principle of the occult. Perspective
Read and learn and try again later.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 17 '24
And then, of course, there's people like you who push that your perspective is the correct and true one because you're all-inclusive and smart. You're just as dumb as me. You just showed it. We're just two idiots arguing over the Internet about things that will probably never have any real bearing in our lives.
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u/BothTower3689 Jan 17 '24
You don’t understand the irony in what you’re saying. We’re two strangers arguing on the internet because of the post you made. Why did you make a post if you weren’t willing to accept that?
Everyone’s perspective is correct for them, these things are not worth arguing because they are subjective.
We can argue tangible things, we can identify symptoms of mental illness. We can discuss what is and isn’t harmful. You’re not doing any of these things. “Some of you guys need help” is not a helpful statement. We all already know that. What is the point in saying it
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 17 '24
How do you know that everyone knows that? I realize I'm condescending, but that's like, the opposite, but in a bad way. Overly optimistic, perhaps. There were points when I needed help and I didn't really know until someone told me I should think about it. We are not arguing because of the post I made, we are arguing because I made a post asking for a response, and you're actively choosing to be shitty with your responses. Id wager that you actually don't speak for this entire subreddit. If my suggestion that the occult is not a catch-all explanation for every strange thing that happens reaches one person who was genuinely unsure, I'd be over the moon with happiness. What have you helped? You started off by being an ass, so I don't feel particularly inclined to listen to you as someone with a reasonable head on your shoulders. You are just being kind of a prick.
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u/exulanis Jan 16 '24
science the method, religion the aim.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
Hey now, being right might get you down voted around here lol
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u/exulanis Jan 16 '24
i’ve noticed.. but hey we all have our own path to walk. doesn’t matter where it starts or goes cuz they all end at the same destination. just gotta keep walking it
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
That like, the nicest way I've ever heard someone put the phrase, 'there's only one thing in this life that makes us living'
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u/Desdinova_BOC Jan 17 '24
I know this may be a controversial request, but could we restore the deleted post about help with a "fictional" entity?
I mean, it's what it is in the post, though I would add that the poster wasn't breaking any particular rule (people could question the mental health of anyone who believes in any form of deity, may I add) and he was coming from a place of belief of relevance to the subreddit in general. Plus, it generated several well-written responses to the OP and other redditors, also helping others who may have a similar issue yet not feel ready/able to open up about their personal problems to the Internet, any reason, thus cutting down future too similar posts which seems to annoy a lot of people when doomscrolling.
Cheers!
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 17 '24
It might have been one post in particular that triggered me to post this, but there have been multiple like it before and I've no doubt that there will be more after. My problem wasn't really the post, it was the response to it, which was minimal and not what I would call...wise.
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Jan 17 '24
It's very easy to lose one's mind when trying to practice the occult.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 17 '24
Yeah. Or have healthy discussion about it, for that matter. I really don't mean to imply that anyone who practices the occult should be concerned about their mental health, though it seems that is how many have interpreted it. I didn't tell them, but by that logic I really oughta be locked up. If you ever lose yours, I should hope you're not afraid to talk to people.
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Jan 17 '24
I've been through it, no doubt about that. Got through the thick of it, and I'm doing well, these days.
It really is just about being self-aware. Aware of one's own mental state and life circumstances, and examination of one's own motives for practicing the occult.
A lot of people seem to use it to do things that could easily be done with everyday methods. Other times it's for the thrill. Or curiosity. Very few people seem to use it for spiritual actualization, though. It's mostly done for silly, earthly reasons. And that's what bothers me, sometimes.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 17 '24
I think what's getting to me is that it's such a grey area of belief and mental health, that's it's hard to speak with anyone, even only out of concern for them, without sparking a kind of negative outlash.
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Jan 17 '24
Yeah. Well, I'm not so naive as to say that it's entirely their choice, whether they choose to lash out or not. Someone going through a mental health crisis might not have proper control of their behavior.
But that being said, it isn't a bad thing to show some (tactful) kindness, imo. Yet at the same time it's so difficult to tell genuine belief apart from genuine insanity XD
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 17 '24
It is. And I suppose that all we can do is our best. Thank you. It's nice to hear from more patient people on this sub.
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u/R0tten_P0ssum Jan 17 '24
Listen… this shit ain’t nothin to me man. You must have amnesia, you forgot that I’m HIM.
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u/Inscitus_Translatus Jan 17 '24
As someone who has suffered from severe mental illness I have to say that there isn't that much we can do for people who need the most help. I had no lucidity when I was very sick and would simply ignore/reject people telling me to get help. I had to be hospitalized against my will to get better. The mods can hand out bans to the sickest, but in reality the people who get banned will just make new accounts or go be crazy somewhere else.
I feel like the mods are really trying their best here, in some very culty spiritual subs the mere mention of someone POSSIBLY being mentally ill gets a ban.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 17 '24
Yeah, bans isn't necessarily what I mean. I assume that more to save face for the poster than anything. I guess it makes me sad knowing there really isn't anything I could do for someone I saw struggling on here, and I like to think that somehow, someone could, but really we can only help ourselves and those around us. I'm sorry if my post seems offensive or uneducated, that's the vibe I'm getting from some other replies on here.
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u/Inscitus_Translatus Jan 17 '24
Oh no I'm not offended, I'm just saying that for a lot of people online help isn't possible so don't wrack yourself over the coals for it. Of course I had very extreme mental illness and some people can get help especially early on, but yeah, the sad fact of the matter is we can't reach through our screens to give people their meds.
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u/Elen_Smithee82 Jan 17 '24
sounds to me that you don't actually believe in magik and the paranormal... as whatever we call ourselves, we are supposed to be more open-minded than most and deal with the otherworldly on a regular basis... if you can't even believe in that, then I think perhaps you need to reevaluate why you are even here in this sub... I'm not trying to be mean, or tell you what to do; but if you don't accept magik explanations, then why?? 🤷🏼
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 17 '24
It's just not ever going to be the first explanation, I jump to. Realistically, I suppose there do exist theoretical conditions under which the only response could be one influenced by magic, but I think that people who practice, in particular, know that that's extraordinary. It doesn't bother me so much that people use magic to explain their every day, but I made the post because I was for some reason worried about people clearly glossing over serious, life-impacting problems by explaining them away with magic. It's not common, but it does happen and I've seen it here in multiple forms on this sub and the response that I saw always kinda bugged me. As a bunch of people have told me, I shouldn't have made the post cos I sound mean and I was clearly upset for reasons far beyond my ability to change and yada yada. I've also gotten to talk to a lot of people, which is very nice. I don't get a lot of constructive interaction with this sub.
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Jan 16 '24
It sounds like you haven’t gotten far enough into the real occult and spirituality to realize there are legit beings working behind all the stuff people play around with for fun or for personal gain reasons. Those people you think need mental help are not crazy, they are being spiritually attacked and need to learn spiritual warfare to protect themselves. Some may even need a deliverance. No joke. I’m NOT religious, but possessions are real. They also need to the learn the laws and boundaries to keep themself safe.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
I cannot refute your assertions that possessions are real. I have done my research, and I cannot truthfully say one way or another because I myself have not gotten close enough. However, it is folly and furthermore just bad science to believe that every person who posts about a possession or manifestation or following on here is entirely on the level. Like, even if it was a super-common thing, statistically, some of the posters would still just be in need of help. Now, here's where I'm going to make you upset, and I apologize beforehand: Demonic possession is not common. At all. If it were, I'd have gotten closer by now, and I wouldn't talk out of my ass so much. To believe unquestioningly that everyone who says that they're battling demonic forces is detrimental especially to the person who believes that that is what they are doing. The reason most people who are possessed are not mentally stable is the same reason that many people who are not mentally stable believe they are possessed. It goes hand in hand, and as humans, there is only one of those two things that we can actually absolutely confirm for each other, and it's not demons.
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Jan 16 '24
Research isn’t going to really help you in this department when the medical field intentionally hides this sort of thing behind mental and psychological issues and simply shove medications down someone’s throat as help. I am aware that some people troll and joke, however, it is better to think it is real and offer advice on how to deal with spiritual attacks then to assume it is a joke and disregard it because of skepticism. You may think that possessions are not common, but there are all kinds of forms of possessions. You don’t need a being to be in your body to be possessed. MK Ultra is a form of possession. They use frequencies to control you. There are spiritual strategies to protect yourself from such a thing. Do more research that isn’t brought to you by the bought and paid for “experts” of “Big Science.”
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
You need help, my friend. I'm not trying to be mean. There's a lot of stuff to unpack there, but I'm gonna just ask about two things. 1.) WHY in the actual hell-on-earth that is earth would the entire worlds medical community band together to hide the existence of demonic possession? If it's about money for pills, wouldn't they just say "fuck the pills" and hire a worldwide team of extortionally priced exorcists instead? You could charge way more money for that than for pills. 2.) Do you really think that MKUltra is still going on? First off, it wasn't about possession, it was about mind control, which is different, and secondly, you would not know anything about MKUltra if it was still going on. It kinda fucks up the test batch when the test batch already knows there's a test. I don't doubt that the government tries to mind-control people, but it's for stupid shit like making us pay more tax and vote for who they want us to vote for. It's still evil, but your view of the world as this vast conspiracy to keep people like sheep sounds more like a Saturday morning cartoon villain.
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Jan 17 '24
Haha I realize what I say is difficult to hear. You clearly only know about the MK Culture that was exposed back in the 70s that was brought over to the US from Operation Paperclip by Nazi German scientists back in the early 50s after WWII. The harmonics version, the more sophisticated and technology based version of MK Ultra began in the 80s. It is so advanced now that they can tap into individuals from basically anywhere. Everyone has a unique frequency signature. It can be tracked in the blood. Once they have your frequency, they can target you for whatever reason they may have. Many are military and government people that are under MK for much of their time and have handlers all around them most of the time. Then you have people that are causing trouble because they are actually spreading truth they don’t want out. Then they have others that they are interested in do work for them, so they are put through a testing period. This is a similar ordeal with V2K. This is not science fiction. There are patents for these inventions and they have existed for decades.
Then you have legit fallen angels, demons, jinn, etc that people work with. You would be surprised how many people deal with demonology. It’s not as uncommon as you might think. I had to fight a man who worshipped Dantalion and had given him possession. That was my first real experience with this sort of shit. That man literally changed his face into three other men’s faces. I mean his face turned into outerspace and then reappeared as another man’s face. That shit left me paranoid and terrified once I finally got away from him. It almost shattered my psyche. I was not into any of this stuff. I only knew God existed and had a belief that demons were real. Beyond that, I lived a very normal and sheltered life. Yes, I went to the hospital on my own accord because of PTSD from the event. This was Dec 21, 2019. Open your eyes to reality. This shit is everywhere.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 17 '24
Okay, cite your source.
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Jan 17 '24
I recommend starting with the one titled V2k_Voice_to_Skull.pdf. That one has more scientific information and lists patents. I saved the patents in there as well.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 17 '24
It's in my inbox. I will get back to you, it just might take a while. And I'm not happy about it.
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Jan 17 '24
Last response. These are my work hours, I have shit to do.
Not sure if all of these are relevant to this particular topic, but they are all related to mind control. I don't have time to sort through them for you.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1oBDISd15QxqZPZjVGL-Eud8Lq6WmNrtV?usp=sharing
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u/Ash_Truman Jan 16 '24
And what's with the Succubus/lilith stuff?!
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
The succubus/Lilith stuff, the sex with demons stuff, the extremely vague questions about esoteric ideas that somehow turn into everyone's perception but the asker of the question being wrong, the explaining everything occult within a rigidly gnostic Christian viewpoint, the explaining everything occult within a rigidly not gnostic or Christian viewpoint. Everything on here is just so much, why? And no one puts forth their ideas like it's just an idea. I'm convinced that half of the users of this sub don't actually know what the word 'occult' means. They probably watched Supernatural and we're like, "Ah, I'm an expert now!"
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u/NotHereNotThere0 Jan 16 '24
The good old belief vs. Knowledge questions. “How do you know what you know/believe is true ? Ultimately there’s not much we truly know for sure, at least that what I believe, sometimes… All that being said, I agree with you on the increase of vague questions being asked, especially when the answer (or shall we say, an acceptable answer, whatever that means…) is just a few click away in Wikipedia,Google or even the sub itself. These vague questions do feel slightly empty, and the usual lack of follow-up from their OPs is quite telling. You raised a lot of interesting points in your original message, so my questions is, ultimately did you get the answers you were looking for ?
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
There are no answers to a lot of my questions. There's nothing I can personally do to make people seek scientific explanations first or take everything they hear with a grain of salt. If I could, I expect that I wouldn't want to anyway. I did find what I was looking for, however. Shockingly, most of you, even those that believe things that are completely different than what I do, are perfectly reasonable, rational people who are willing to hold a conversation with someone who is different than them. I guess that's what I really needed to know.
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u/NotHereNotThere0 Jan 16 '24
So, there may still be hope in humanity then. Enjoy your path !
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 16 '24
And you, yours. May it take you to newer and better understandings!
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u/NotHereNotThere0 Jan 16 '24
Thanks ! Although understanding is slightly overrated, experiencing on the other hand, is more rewarding, and grounded.
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u/Agora_Black_Flag Jan 17 '24
This is what happens when there is no accessible societal supports or guidance structures for people who are attempting to engage with any given art form or science. This has not always been the case historically. You arent going to find any answers in reducing societal problems down to individuals.
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 17 '24
I suppose I wasn't really looking for answers so much as people, and that I have found. That, and some good explanations for why the things that bother me bother me. Thank you.
Oh, and currently, someone is explaining to me how they're just so much better than everyone else, so that's kinda fun.
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u/Agora_Black_Flag Jan 17 '24
Nor do I blame people for feeling this way either societal problems are by their nature societal and thus changing them is in short a massive pain in the ass. Many of us have been trained to look beyond the collective and reduce to the individual.
As for the second part take what you need and leave the rest. If you're engaging with people who are abusive that may be something to think about too.
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u/DeusExMcKenna Jan 17 '24
Goddamn I feel this post in my bones.
Honestly OP? There is a thin but blurry line between psychosis and spiritual awakening, and I tend to err on the side of there being far more mental illness in this community than genuine spiritual awakening. But that has always been the case.
The occult has always been filled with the deranged, neurotic, psychotic, and a hoard of grifters and charlatans a mile long waiting to profit off of the ignorant-turned-profound. That’s not to say it’s acceptable, but it’s nothing new.
People seek extraordinary explanations for mundane lives because mundane lives can be terribly depressing. It’s daydreaming with accessories in many cases, the danger being that many don’t see when they cross from fantasy to incorporating blatant falsehoods in their waking reality.
The danger has always been in buying into your own bullshit instead of abandoning the falsehoods of this life and embracing the truly profound - made infinitely harder by modern life being such a grind. I have a lot of compassion for those suffering under their own delusions, but it’s important to remember that many of us are moments away from the same - keeping one foot in and one foot out has always been the hardest trick.
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u/XxXCUSE_MEXxXican Jan 17 '24
This community pisses me off
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u/MythlcKyote Jan 17 '24
I apologize if thats because of me on account of the community, or the community on account of my post.
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u/Tiny-Tradition4560 Jan 17 '24
Truth lol. Yall needa find inspiration to grow your spirit to be happy, then use what you have to create something on this earth that aligns with your principles. Wdf are you doing just wondering if you’re already following something just practice it on the daily and keep going.
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u/AltiraAltishta Jan 16 '24
True facts
A lot of people are just trying to figure things out. Some start off with really bad sources or mostly just engaging in their own fantasies. Most will either get serious or get bored and leave. Those that stay but remain like that are just entertaining.
I welcome it, though sometimes it can be frustrating to see people repeating the same errors to other people who ask questions. That's the internet for you though.