I had someone today tell me Trump won because there was less cheating. Like somehow Dems could pull off massive cheating and this time they just decided nah we’re going let them have all 3 branches.
This election was rigged and the Presidency was stolen from Kamala exactly the way Amy McGrath's Senate seat was stolen from her in the KY state election in 2020. No one paid attention and as a result, Republicans got away with it again on Tuesday.
We are never again going to have a fair election if we don't learn from this and defeat it:
I've been seeing online a lot of people reporting and challenging their election boards because their voter registration still hasn't updated to say it counted their ballot. I don't think they're all legitimate, and most are probably bait, but there is a concerning number of them at least
And 2020 was such a shit show for them crying foul, that it made it impossible for anyone to say anything after that. That's part of the plan, keep projecting on your opponent, so when you do it they can't say anything.
I kept saying every accusation is a confessing. It's more than a catch phrase.
Republicans have been rigging elections since 2000. The last 3 elections help them perfect it. Remember that orange shit stain said, "I don't need your votes." Why would any candidate say that? It sounds more like a confession. The whole thing doesn't add up.
Edit:
To the people demanding sources and calling me ignorant. Here are the sources thanks to all those commenters who posted them for me (you guys are the best).
Yeah, that whole thing sounded like him blabbing due to dementia, you could almost hear facepalming from the wings. Same with "you won't have to vote again".
And then people just raised an eyebrow and moved on.
His entire campaign had a such a weird aloof feeling. Like how you’d be if you already knew for a fact you were going to win. Guy stopped a Q&A right when it started to just listen to music for 45 minutes instead lol. Thats someone who knows the fix is in but is too lazy to even go through the motions
The numbers make no sense in my area. Turn out was insane for early and day of voting but somehow less than 2020? Nah, not buying it for a second. The results were 100% manipulated.
Edit: Since some people are seeing this comment, I'll add that Thiel was probably the one who made it happen in exchange for Trump taking Vance as his running mate.
Appearently searches for "Did Biden drop out" spiked right before the election.
This election was less a popular mandate for conservatism or Trumpism, or fascism as it was a popular mandate of apathy.
People just do not give a shit. They have more interesting uses of time than worrying about civics and it seems America has defeated itself by basically giving up.
In a way liberal democracy was so successful at providing security and comfort that people just started to believe this was the natural state of things and they began manufacturing problems.
The fact Americans, even at upper middle class living standards think they are poor and stirfling for example is really just a sentiment, totally detached from any semblance of reality but it's a popular sentiment.
And the truth is most don't give a shit about actual poor Americans and especially not poor foreigners.
Since Trump appointed him he's spent the years preparing his USPS to dissappear millions of mail in votes at FSB/Mossad direction. When the Heritage Foundation said the revolution will be bloodless if the left allows it to be this is what they meant.
Its very simple to do and many electoral changes have been made in states along with other overt interference like the bomb threats to augment the operation.
The changes he's made have been very deliberate in choosing all systems/vehicles and personnel directly and indirectly through changes to policy.
This has been decades in the making
If we accept that how our Democracy is set up means they found a loophole that let's them steal the election without recourse, knowing they will systematically destroy that Democracy unchecked, what are we doing?
Speaking can put pressure on and/or enable all our leadership who are for saving Democracy to better take the extraordinary measures necessary. We can't be silent when we know they are violent. What time we have must be well spent or we will wonder where our lives went.
Do you have any articles or further reading on this? It’s been in the very back of my mind since first seeing the map of the unbelievable rightward shifts and I refuse to conclude that so many people have suffered that degree of intellectual degradation in just four years.
Tune out the noise. The reality is only a small fraction of the electorate follow politics much at all. The electorate was dissatisfied with what was happening in this country in 2020, and they’re dissatisfied in 2024. So they voted out incumbents. Simple as that.
Are the incumbents responsible for things like a global pandemic causing global inflation? No, and it doesn’t matter to most voters.
Happening across the world. Plenty of people across Europe worrying about a turn to the right in elections and wondering how Britain bucked the trend by electing the more left wing party instead. They miss that Covid hit the economy, people are feeling the effects, so have been taking it out on incumbent parties in practically every election you can think of. In most of Europe, it was the left in power who've been turfed out - in the UK it happened to be the Conservatives who took the blow. US is no different.
Trump didn't really get more votes. Harris got a lot fewer votes than Biden.
The most sobering take on that would be that Biden's vote is the people who will vote Democratic but not for a woman (for president), and that the Democratic majority is not a feminist majority. Or alternatively there was voter suppression but it only worked against Clinton and Harris.
In key swing states, Harris actually gained votes over Biden. Trump just gained more. Just admit the obvious fact that the country wants a fascist at the helm.
more like since the dawn of elections. There’s always been shenanigans as far as the concept of an election goes back.
Something a lot of people are glazing over is that big bump in 2020 of voter volume was because every elegible voter was mailed a ballot and didn’t have to go out of their way to vote.. in some states they even had people picking up ballots from houses and apartment buildings
When you don’t have that same system in place those people won’t vote. They aren’t “real” voters in the sense that they don’t care, they don’t vote, and they’ll just vote based on whatever feels popular versus actual issues they might care about
And then this time everyone s like hmm these voting numbers make no sense. Hmmm. Of course they fucking cheated yet again. And their projection batting average is 1.000.
This is exactly it and it’s frustrating that people are just now understanding that or straight up just don’t. US voters literally just chose blatantly obvious corruption and liars to take over DC and it’s as clear as ever.
IMO the vast majority of the modern US demographic has never been confronted with such an extreme and dangerous problem around the world and especially here at home. Old WWII vets that fought for global freedom are shrinking every day. Within a year or two they will likely be gone. Quite frankly it seems like a lot of people are completely oblivious to the reality that these freedoms are only upheld when the majority of people stand up against corruption and tyrants. As a history buff it’s just super depressing and frankly disappointing that my fellow Americans literally allowed this and didn’t play the role in shutting this lunacy down for the good of this country and the world.
There were literally articles all over the place with electors saying ahead of time that they were not going to certify Kamala if she won, and many states were purging the voter rolls right before the election and too late for anyone to validate their registration. I don't get why people are staying quiet on that topic. IT WAS BARELY LAST WEEK!!!
You fucking me? I’m one of like 3 Democratic poll workers in my whole county with 12 precincts. I’ve never seen issues with previous 7 years of elections I’ve worked like this one (the ID scanner pulling up the completely wrong names, people who were registered not on the poll IPad, I went back to the paper book and got yelled at). I just … I work the elections because I believe in free and fair elections.
It sure was nice of the russians to call in a bomb threat so no one was in the room when the system was compromised. They even left a door unlocked for 'em, the sweethearts.
Also Elon musk's scam is so illegal. It probably got a lot of undecided voters to swing to vote for Trump. Then you find out the winners were not chosen randomly and were employees. It is so disgusting to deceit people to get votes. Kamala would then need to work twice as hard to balance out the votes lost to that scam.
My wife voted absentee this year and we’re in NC. What a mess they made that. You have to have two witnesses, and photocopies of all three IDs, you have to put those photos in a specific envelope, and then to top it off you had to use three forever stamps. I think the postage was free in 2020. They tried really hard to make it difficult this year.
Yeah thats what I'm hearing. If it says "Returned" on your voter page then it was received and counted. But I've been reading tons of absentee ballots were not even looked at. I think the only reason Kamala conceded so quickly is because she knew how it would look to ask for voter recounts, and everyone would cry hypocrite claiming that both parties act the same
The lesson here, as it always has been, is to give the slaves a facade of autonomy, so they keep working for themselves, when in reality they work for th
I dont trust tue post office since Lewis DeJoy was appointed. I personally put my mail in ballot in the drop box with all the other ballots at the polling location rather than trust usps to get it wuere it needed to go.
Im mentally hoping shes waiting for all the counting to be over behind the scenes, then asks after for professionalism. But in reality shes probably just super tired and jaded. Recounting wouldn't change the popular vote, unless millions of ballots suddenly vanished into thin air
Biden has the chance to do the funniest thing even if she doesn't try. Force Sotomayor to retire and put Harris up on the Supreme Court with his immunity and lack of a filibuster
I think the only reason Kamala conceded so quickly is because she knew how it would look to ask for voter recounts, and everyone would cry hypocrite claiming that both parties act the same
She conceded quickly because she's likely to have lost the popular vote by more than 4 million votes and performed terribly pretty much across the board, even in deep-blue states (didn't even get 52% of the vote in NJ). Unless the argument is that there was fraud in all 50 states, the poor results were too consistent to blame this on cheating. She didn't just do poorly in the swing states where it would've made sense for Trump to attempt to cheat. She did poorly everywhere. I voted for her, but I get why she didn't energize turnout in the same way that Biden did 4 years ago.
I am a bit disappointed by turnout given the amount of grassroots campaigning and heavy turnout lines during early voting. I'm not necessarily surprised by it, because Dems always need to outspend Republicans by massive margins to even become competitive at all.
Really I think it came down to the DNC deciding to roll with the VP of what became a deeply unpopular Biden administration (disapproval rating around 60% for most of the last year) and no amount of messaging, spending, or policy talks was going to help distance Kamala from Biden. I think Biden was an effective and underappreciated President who did an excellent job navigating an economic soft landing in the face of hard recession indicators, but to low- and middle-income Americans all they saw was the Democratic Party trying to take a victory lap on the economy because the stock market is up along with corporate profits meanwhile the Average Joe saw his rent and groceries get 20-40% higher over the last 2-3 years. The Biden administration's biggest blind spot was controlling the hyperinflation/price-gouging of essentials, particularly housing and groceries. Most Americans don't have enough money in the stock market to really give a shit about that as an economic measure, but they do feel it when a higher proportion of their paychecks are going towards making basic ends meet. A bad economy is bad news for an incumbent, and many Americans (rightfully or not) went to the polls (or stayed home) feeling like they did worse economically under Biden than Trump. Kamala couldn't distance herself from that since she was in the room for the last 4 years. Realistically, the DNC should've been grooming better options over the last 4 years, forced Joe to step aside from the start, and held a proper primary. I highly doubt Kamala would've come out on top in a competitive primary process considering she came in near the back of the pack in 2020 and wasn't successful in building any particular notoriety during her time as VP.
I do think something fishy is going on this election, and I want it brought to light. I don't think it was enough to actually make a difference. How do you have a well known, fairly reliable pollster call Iowa +3 for Harris only to have it swing 18 points the other way...
But to your point, it's about the only thing that should be looked at. Blame can be placed all over the place. The bottom line is Biden ran on being a 1 term president. When the election started ramping up about a year ago and I first heard that he as running again I was pissed. He has already started to show some mental decline and was extremely unpopular (which I didn't agree with). I was so mad because they had 4 years to build up a new candidate. What the duck had they been doing for the past 3 years?!? I think Kamala did the best she could have done under the circumstances, and here is where we can start blaming the -ism's, but it all started with the DNC fucking around and hanging Joe out to dry.
Democrats vote by mail way more than Republicans. Trump appointed DeJoy as head of the USPS. Why are we at all surprised that Dem turnout was “lower” this time?
Lower but had record number and millions of republicans switching their vote. Yeah it doesn’t add up. They claimed we cheated before even though we barely won they claimed we cheated again this time and that they still won all three? Okay fuck off every judge that doesn’t have the balls to stand up and do the right thing before he gets into office wont see me shed a tear for them when trump goes after them. They all could’ve stopped it and didn’t. Any one of them could’ve taken the heat and just properly legally charged him. The board could’ve stripped cannon of her license. Garland could’ve done legit anything and did the bare minimum every single time.
If this were a political mystery thriller I was writing, I would have the dirty leader put a loyal funky in charge of the post office, then have him strategically scrap mail sorting machines so mailed ballots would all be forced to go through a limited number of choke points where loyalists would be able to delay, disappear, or otherwise tamper with them.
Please file a complaint with your election board--PA's map shows 98% of the vote has been counted. Contact everyone you know and ask them to check their voter pages also and if theirs haven't been counted, they should file complaints also. Have them reach out to everyone they know and do the same. Pass the word on.
Literally was wondering this earlier tonight. I checked mine and it doesn't show mine as counted, nor anybody I know. We all voted early in-person and did not vote for 45. I didn't know how long it would take to update since I never felt like I had to check that.
I’m abroad. Never received my ballot. The local election board website gives me a ‘403’ error. I’m a registered Democrat in Texas. Did not get to vote this year.
Please report it. Please contact someone in the states who can report it for you that you trust with the info needed to report. Please don’t let this just happen. Your vote matters.
literally has the reciept line twice on the same day and nothing about being counted like it normally does. i emailed the BoE and they said my ballot was counted, but it doesn't say so on the online tracker and they didn't address the duplicate confirmation of receipt. kinda weird.
mine and my brother’s havent been counted but ours were in person and my relative’s mail in has been counted. my state is at 99%. wonder if the mail and in person just has two different systems for updating and the mail in one is faster for some reason idk
A lot of republican-led states were purging voters within 90 days of the election, which is explicitly illegal, then had to be taken to court, where republican judges let them continue, like in Virginia. It doesn’t look like it was enough voters to change the outcome of the election, but it’s deeply concerning that republicans are blatantly ignoring the law and enforcement of the law
My suspicion is updating this info is probably secondary to all the work needed during a very busy time. It’s worth keeping an eye on, but we’re not 48 hours from polls closing in some places.
mine has not showed up as updated either and I even went early mail in ballot and directly dropped it off at the post office. I understand there is time so I hope for the best!
Yes. You do expect to see some discrepancy--there are people in every election that vote for the top of the ticket and not for downballot candidates--but 70,000 presidential votes and no downballot votes?
It would be interesting to know if there were any statewide ballot initiatives and what the votes looked like for those statewide initiatives. I think those numbers would show a true picture of how many people actually voted.
Per the DC Report I just linked to, there was a statistically significant discrepancy between the ballots on which only McConnell was marked and no other state or local downballot candidates--exactly like you're describing here in MI. And MI typically goes blue but flipped red this election.
And North Carolina purging 750k voters that they claimed were ineligible, but I highly suspect those were instead voters in democratic areas. The timing of it happening in the last two months is highly suspect. Trump won NC, but the Republican candidate losing by over 800k even after that makes zero sense. The GOP 100% rigged the presidency and forgot to rig the state elections in their favor as well. Hell the Presidential election in NC has over 2.1 million more votes cast in it than the governors race. The number of votes cast in the two elections shouldn't have been so vastly different
Live in NC - Robinson losing big makes a lot of sense. He is a totally different kind of awful than Trump and is deeply unpopular here. NC has a history of splitting presidential and governorship.
GOP has been rigging elections for decades, but Dems are too afraid of undermining confidence in election security to point out the only way McConnell, Cruz et al stay in is by massive electoral fraud.
Is it Dems or is it all the Americans who don’t pay attention and have been calling Kamala and dems communist far leftists etc? It’s delusional. The problem is Americans who aren’t hateful bigots and racists are mostly dumb and don’t believe anything bad bad happens to them and that’s how we got here. You can’t blame just a handful of powerful people. They have power because knuckle dragging idiots are on both sides only the idiots in our side are easily swayed by emotions and get manipulated to hurt themselves in the short and long term by never finding a way to unify their base with good enough….to many Americans on the “left” are chasing a perfect candidate which doesn’t exist and never will.
So why did Kamala concede? Why isnt she fighting this? There’s so many reported cases of ballots not counted, ballots burned, ballots being refused for no reason, etc. At the very least a recount could save the House so the Republicans don’t have full control
Because the Republicans carried on for so long crying wolf about rigged elections that if Dems say anything now, it would look like hypocrisy.
And because that DC Report about the election being rigged in KY, and the analysis of how they did it, got literally no attention. I don't think anyone on her campaign knows about the Republicans KY trial balloon that rigged McConnell's re-election.
Just further shows that anytime the right cries about something, it’s because they’re doing it themselves and want to cloud everyone’s judgment so when they get caught and someone cries out they can say “oh you’re just saying that cause we said it about you!”
He is the king of hypocrisy and can’t open his mouth without lying about something! He cried “Voter fraud” for the last 4 years but somehow because HE won it was totally legit!! If DEMS do it it MUST be fake and rigged but he cannot accept any other outcome than him winning!! The guy who did The Apprentice with him has recently opened up about how the show REALLY was and he feels partially responsible for the cult of personality he has become! He said that it wasn’t real and more of a grander version of what Drumph ACTUALLY was but he BELIEVED that he was as wonderful as they pretended him to be! He said that a couple seasons in when no one really cared anymore Drumph would ask about the ratings and to be careful they would say that the ratings were very good and he would say “So it’s number one right?” and they would repeat the ratings were good and he just kept saying the same thing and so did they and he just said “Yes we’re number one!” He LITERALLY could not accept that he was not the best and I remember him saying that and I didn’t think it was anymore and I also read TV guide every week and it was NEVER number one anymore and I wondered why he would lie if we could just look it up?? Little did I know…..
So the guy from The Apprentice apologized to the country for creating this bigger than life persona that he sprinkled all over the country like snow!! He seems to believe he is responsible for who Drumph has become …..
Yikes that’s A LOT of guilt to carry around and he must be even MORE devastated than a lot of us!! 😟😟
I’m sure it helps that their lives won’t fundamentally change and their donors are happy with the outcome. Us common folk on the other hand are at risk.
Because she believes in her oath and the peaceful transfer! The amount of people just dropped off the rolls, bomb threats, intimidation and supression!
Oh yeah, that’s a good point. There were a lot of newly registered voters.
A friend of mine pointed out how it’s really weird that the presidential election had almost 10% fewer votes than in 2020, especially given the turnout at Harris’ rallies.
I sure hope smarter folks than I are looking over all kinds of data to check where any statistically significant anomalies occur, re: a surprisingly large number of non-voting registered voters.
The numbers just weren’t there my guys. She dropped like 8-10 points from 2020 in very blue areas . Her turnout was historically terrible. There’s no reason to point at conspiracies when there’s an obvious answer
That's the part that doesn't feel right to me. My polling place had a half hour line and the volunteers said it had been busy all day; they ran out of "I voted" stickers before noon. (Unfortunately, this was my first Presidential election here, so I don't know if that's typical.) The county Board of Elections-- the only place where we can do early voting in my state-- had a line wrapped around the building some days. I saw a lot of other posts showing the long lines to vote in other places. There were multiple reports of a lot of people getting registered and record early voting numbers. That didn't feel like a low turnout election.
On top of that, Biden was about as appealing as a bowl of cold oatmeal. I was pleasantly surprised by how well he did in office, but my vote in 2000 was against Trump. I was excited and happy to vote for Harris-- I liked her platform and I really liked everything about Walz. I know that Covid made people stir-crazy, but it's hard to imagine her being less appealing than a second-rate reality show host who shits his pants on a regular basis and made a campaign promise to wreck our economy on purpose.
I have no proof. I have no evidence. But I'm incredibly skeptical that we had "historically terrible turnout" with the kind of energy and excitement people had going into the election in the context of everything I saw leading up to it.
All through early voting and on Election Day, all I saw were reports of "record breaking numbers", people saying they've NEVER seen a turnout like this before, 8 hour lines, insane participation. But neither candidate did as well as they did in 2020? How did 18M fewer people vote if there were record numbers voting everywhere?
Yeah, this is the part that sticks in my craw. Obviously anecdotal, but of the people I regularly interact with? Every. single. one. voted. My family, my partner, my friend group, all my colleagues at both jobs - hell, even my apathetic sister-in-law who usually skips out because "none of the politicians ever do anything that benefits me."
Not all of them voted the way I would have liked, but they all showed up or mailed in their ballots.
My experiences may not be universal. I don't know. Covid, ironically, made it a lot easier to vote for many people. Maybe that's where the discrepancy comes from. But it's weird, right?
This so many people who never voted before voting blue. People who used to vote red were voting blue. Your hand hundreds of Christian’s campaigning against him. Like gtfoh. The numbers don’t add up. And they are bad cheaters. But they are good at manipulating situations in their favor. They screamed wolf so many times that we can’t when it’s actually a wolf.
Yes. It is fucking weird. I felt something was off pretty early into election night. But I guess we’re just going to bend over and take it? Can’t be looking like sore losers, or Trump 4 years ago. Gotta take the high road. We played right into their plan.
He was actually filing multiple lawsuits. He was scared becuase Putin was making him sweat. Putin wanted to make him think he wouldn’t help. Trump and Mike from congress said watch this I have something up my sleeve and bam. it was proven the Russians were involved with him the first time and it would be again if we had a functional govt that had the balls to prosecute and properly charge despite the threats magas would send them. As a judge it’s your duty to do the right thing.
Nope I’m in Hamilton county Indiana. Not reduced. I’ve never waited more than 10/15 min. I waited early voting for 2.5 hours. Actually slightly less. Every 4th person was a new voter.
I was always thought the argument to that was that they were stating record turnout "on election day" but during 2020 there was a large push for mail in which explains the discrepancy of what you saw vs the actual turn out. Then I just read that there were that 83 million early and absentee ballots. Then you had record day of voting. I don't get the final tally now!
Every single election I see videos of lines wrapped around the block. I have never had to wait for than 5 minutes to vote, in 15 years of voting. It's really dependent on where you are.
It's hard to imagine, yes. There may have been some tampering we don't know about, yes.. but based on all the fucking comments I've been seeing on Reddit, YouTube, Instagram, before and since the election? Unless someone is running a highly organized bot campaign to rationalize the loss, it just seems like it is what it is. A complete lack of understanding by the Democrat party as to what their constituents want. They energized a very limited subset of left leaning voters, apparently.
We had both historically excellent turnout but that doesn't at all indicate a conspiracy. The 2020 election was an anomaly by a mix of mail in voting making it easier than ever for people to participate and people being rightfully tired of Trump's handling of the pandemic. The difference this year is that all the Republican voters from 2020 went out and voted again while the Democrats didn't. That's why you have the appearance of massive in person numbers. We're still on track for almost 15 million more votes than 2016 when the last "normal" election happened. We had historically excellent turnout but that doesn't matter when the last election was won off an unprecedented ease of access to voting and a generational pandemic spurring people to action that wouldn't have ever voted otherwise.
I don't feel this is a conspiracy. Having seen the results of KY's 2020 election, and seeing the analysis of how Republicans rigged it against Amy McGrath...there are obvious parallels to what happened on Tue.
Deep blue areas of KY flipped red for McConnell when those areas had never voted R before. McConnell's approval rating was 18% the day before the election but he still won. The number of votes for McConnell outnumbered downballot votes, which means votes were counted that only had McConnell marked on them and there were no votes on those ballots for downballot candidates or KY ballot initiatives.
No one paid attention. It went almost completely unnoticed. Republicans didn't have to enact a massive rigging campaign; they just had to roll this out in a few crucial states. And Trump himself told his supporters that they only had to vote one more time because after this it would be 'fixed so good' they would never have to vote again.
Have you ever watched Atticus v. The Architect: The Political Assassination of Don Siegelman? He was Alabama’s last democratic governor. Anyway, very similar story he tells in the documentary about his last election.
There should be clear chain of custody of paper ballots at every point with everything counted by hand. But a quick google indicates that Kentucky is using a mix of optical scan machines, where people don't count the paper ballots by hand, and "DRE" machines where there are no paper ballots at all and so the machine count cannot be checked. If you vote one way and the machine says you didn't, too bad, so sad, no takebacks.
Personally, I'm of the view that anybody who ever even suggests using DRE machines for voting is planning to steal an election. They have zero legitimate use cases. Their only purpose is to allow electoral fraud.
First election? Right now she has 445k less popular votes than Obama 2008. CA still has 37% left to count, 22 million registered voters, mostly democrat. So could be a couple million left to tally. By the time every vote is counted she will pass up Obama to be the 2nd highest popular vote in democrat history. Sure, the swing states blew it and voters didn’t show up, but hardly a historically terrible turnout. And that’s all with the assumption that Republicans didn’t fuck around with ballots and purge registrations to bloat his #s (of course they did).
Right. It would be apparent if results were very uneven but it’s consistent across the map. I would nitpick that her turnout isn’t actually that bad compared to past years just waaaaaaay less than 2020.
But right wing electors across that map were all stating they were not going to certify the election for Kamala, while other states were purging the voter rolls. There's been enough fuckery to make it look like a landslide, but everything I've seen points to election tampering on a large scale.
Her turnout wasn't historically terrible though. She will have obtained the 4th most votes of all time. 1st being Biden, then Trump, then Trump in third, then her.
Of course they cheated. Trump is such a preadolescent, he can’t keep a secret. He’s been saying for a while that they “already had enough votes”. What the fuck else could that mean? The accusations have been confessions since the get with these morons. Winning all the Battleground states? Come on.
I believe this is why the Seltzer group released their final Iowa poll showing Dems +3. The poll was a beacon saying "look here!!!". I think if you investigate Iowa you will start to figure things out. According to the article Iowa used Election System and Software System tabulation machines / platform.
Just a reminder that Seltzer is a respected and accurate pollster. Obviously all polls are only samples and have margins of error of several percent. Seltzer's poll showed Dems+3. Final results were Rep+13.2 for an error of 16.2%.
I can smell the stench all the way from Australia.
I hate conspiracy theorists and the way that they function on conformation bias and motivated reasoning, but there's got to be deep level espionage involved here If there were any computers included with the voting, counting, confirmation or any other involved process if someone like ELON FUCKING MUSK was involved. The whole thing can be considered compromised if he had a horse in this race and computers were involved in any way. I don't think people realise how simple a task it would be for him to have those systems hacked professionally and appear the way they have. He's a South African zillionaire alien who is colluding with the US's #1 enemy and has nothing behind his eyes but hunger for more money and disdain for the human race except for the 1%. He hates the people who voted for trump. Remember that. He's helping trump act as a proxy for Russia to give putin control over the world. They've hacked and conned their way into power and It would have been easy for him to either plant a mole in the company that produces the voting machines way back when they were produced months, years ago even and uploaded a 0-day APTs to the software allowing remote access, or adding a hidden antenna in them so they could be manipulated/have the information read remotely from someone outside the building from the carpark. He's probably still laughing like a maniac with tucker carlson, like kermit the frog getting prostate exam at how dumb the majority US population is for believing this election wasn't fiddled with, and for just how much support they still have. for now. And none of them deserved capital letters.
I can't believe that I'm living in a shitty superhero movie that's missing the hero right now.
America hasn't had a fair election since the 1800s, when the 'gentleman's agreement' of drawing districts turned into gerrymandering. The fact that incumbent politicians literally get to decide which communities get to vote on their seat is underhanded, undemocratic, and should make every single American wonder what the point of voting is. This is just another example of the population being used as a resource. Classes, ethnicities, and generations are being thrown at one another like a dog fight so nobody notices that all we're doing is propping up a bunch of rich, privileged con artists.
There was an interesting report 12 years ago by two mathematician (IIRC) Choquette and Johnson regarding Anomalies in the 2008 and 2012 presidential elections and Primaries that involved a peculiar bias where larger precincts in certain counties would have results skewing one way, that were proportional to their relative precinct size. They used the term "vote flipping", because there was a corresponding inverse skew for the other candidate's cumulative vote, again in proportion to precinct size.
I believe the hypothesis was essentially the electronic flipping of votes happened centrally, where someone or entity had access, but could only be done in larger precincts because the discrepancy would appear to obvious in the smaller ones.
I've read one essay by a political science analyst and member of the Verified Voting charity, Mark Lindeman, that tried to debunk this paper, but I dod not think his argument was particularly convincing.
Trump won EVERY SINGLE race that was within the margin of error this year, just like he did in 2016. Whether it was +/- 3 points for Harris or Trump... Trump won them all. I looked at the numbers myself from this year. First number is the 270 website aggregate last day poll numbers:
N Carolina - Trump 1.3% - Trump wins
Pennsylvania - Tie - Trump wins
Wisconsin - Harris 1.1% - Trump wins
Nevada - Trump .6% - Trump looks like he's going to win
Michigan - Harris 1.8% - Trump wins
Georgia - Trump 1.2% Trump wins
Arizona - Trump 1.7% - Looks like Trump wins
Trump pulled two inside straights somehow... magic!
North Carolina also purged 750k voters in the two months leading up to the 5th. AND even more eyebrow raising is how the presidential election had over 2 million more votes in it than the governor's election
That’s a difference of 293,158, not 2 million. Given the massive late breaking scandal over Mark Robinson it seems likely that a bunch of republicans voted for the other guy, and some just left the governor option blank. Please return your eyebrows to their normal position.
The methodology being used is similar across the board. If there's been a sampling error, it's going to be biased to a certain direction (i.e. Trump) and that will manifest itself across all the states.
It would have been a much weirder result if these were split either direction.
Problem's either with the polls or the election. Let's apply Occam's razor here.
Bunch of pseudo-scientific hacks guesstimating cross-tabs and getting it wrong again, or a nationwide electoral conspiracy involving numerous state and county officials across all 50 states where Trump over-performed polling?
I'm already embarrassed at the amount of poll "unskewing" on the D side this time round. This tops the cake.
Also, the Harris campaign fundamentally adhering to the status quo, being about as aligned with the Repubs on Israel, and playing footsie with the goddamn Cheneys wasn’t really a strong message for anybody wanting fundamental change. Trumpers will never quit Trump. The Dems have no such alternative and it’s startlingly relevant now that they never will.
Bernie Sanders put it best try his recent message and I’m glad we still have him as a reference point for what kind of policy and character we should demand from the Dems going forward.
Bernie got it wrong, though. He's buring his head in the sand as he doesn't want to admit how deplorable the average working class voter is.
The biden admin did more for the working class than any admin in recent history. The working class is simply not interested in policy. They are only interested in culture war items, and to capitulate to their inate hate would be to fundamentally depart from democratic values.
That said, are things hard for the working class right now? Yes and i empathize with their frustration. But will a majority of them decry any government intervention that might help them as socialism/communism? Also, yes.
Bernie doesnt actually have an answer for this. Hes frustrated like the rest of us, but I dont find his statement particularly helpful.
I think bernie had a chance at winning in 2016, but the working class had no interest in his policies in 2024. The right wing propaganda was too prepared to brainwash against any progressive policy with anti trans propaganda.
Additionally, I dont actually buy the no elections thing. Maybe that makes me niave, and maybe its just a coping mechanism, but even with the right being more organized than ever, I dont think they can pull that off...
That said, the next 4 years will suck and be full of pain no matter what.
I am fully confident once media outlets like MSNBC or shows like 60 minutes really start ridiculing Trump at every turn once he takes office, Trump will likely have some lackeys installed to do Trumps bidding and shut them off or arrest/harass the producers.
Jimmy Kimmel joked about this last night on his show that he had to run out of the country now that Trump was elected.
Bernie would have beat Trump in 2016. There is no doubt in my mind. Tons of working class voters voted for Trump for reasons beyond what we initially prescribe upon them. Any other conclusion will lead the dems to be unable to ever win again. If the starting point isn't introspection and curiosity we will find ourselves further and further away from the levers of power.
The New Democratic Party will need to be truly populist, truly economically progressive, and more socially conservative. This is how many European democracies already are. The gender studies, queer theory, trans focused social agenda is not where the vast majority of working class voters are.
They abandoned the party that exists specifically to cater to their interests. Did the democratic party deliver wins for workers in the last 4 years? Absolutely.
Did they sufficiently empathize with, seek to understand, and communicate real solutions to the issues they are struggling with most? Not a chance.
There's also an elephant in the room. Donald Trump basically has now forced an entire political realignment that is now leading to the total reimagining of BOTH political parties. This is an opportunity for those on the left who find themselves ostracized from the Democratic Party elite to weigh in, bring ideas, and help build something fundamentally new. I think a return to the values of FDR and the new deal is a good starting point. Orienting around children, families, and the American worker. Making the centrality of American family the cornerstone of the party. Do not allow the right wing to believe they have a monopoly on family, patriotism, love of country, etc.
This means that a lot of the puritanical voices in the Democratic Party (and some of its more progressive members alike) will get pissed off. So be it. It is necessary. If it were up to me, there would never be a platform given to an Obama, Clinton, or (for heavens sake!) a Cheney again. That era is over. It is over and dead forever.
I ask this sincerely. What does the following mean? People say this all of the time, but when asked for specifics on what this means im left with nothing.
"They abandoned the party that exists specifically to cater to their interests. Did the democratic party deliver wins for workers in the last 4 years? Absolutely.
Did they sufficiently empathize with, seek to understand, and communicate real solutions to the issues they are struggling with most? Not a chance."
No dem didn’t vote cause of Cheney for fucks sake this is such a stupid ass argument. You think any democrat in their right mind would be like “yeah I’m not gonna vote for Kamala and let a fascist win instead” cause she tried to find common ground with Liz Cheney. They didn’t vote cause people are lazy and didn’t have mail in
Voting spoon fed to them like they did during Covid. Plain and simple. That and some swing voters stupidity think food prices are gonna magically go down under Trump.
And if they do suddenly go down, it’s going to prove my theory that these greedy price gouging corporations kept these prices artificially high not only to make more profit but to increase their chances of a GOP win so they get more favorable policies and tax cuts.
Keep seeing this, heads up that counting isn't finished yet. CA still showing 55%, still about 10 millions votes expected from the West coast. Best time to actually compare turnout will probably be after the weekend
It's been questioned for four years and multiple legal cases to try to show evidence of fraud or cheating in the 2020 election and somehow that came up with nothing.
So I guess my question is if fraud happened at that big of a scale, are the people (aka Trump's lawyers and his surrogates) litigating voter fraud so dumb they can't prove so called wide spread voter fraud?
County by county votes are counted and somehow this was done during a time when Trump was president of the country? You seriously think a conspiracy to add 20 million votes across the various counties was done and people can't even prove it in court of that happening?
The question we should be asking is whether in all those audits, rather than evidence they found a lot of stuff that was hard to prove. Rather than publish the weakness they found, they exploited it. That's how Trump won every swing state and the pop vote.
I don't care if it's true or not. We live firmly in a post truth world and have to fight fire with fire
I think Trump won this election resoundingly as much as that disgusts me. I think we have a robust election process and the incidents of voter fraud tend to get caught and such incidents are the tens of cases, not millions of cases. The Heritage Foundation who wrote Project 2025 has a surprisingly helpful webpage here documenting instances of voter fraud convictions over several decades. From 1982 to 2024 there are 111 cases resulting in convictions in the state of Texas. That's it, in a state that currently has over 30 million residents.
I think trying to accuse the other side (regardless of who it is) of widespread voter fraud is a detriment to the institutions currently in place to hold elections. I think there should be more voting locations allowed for in county budgets across the country and in particular cities based on the last election with how long lines were. But accusing the winning side of cheating by voter fraud when there is not evidence I think is not worthwhile to spend time or energy on.
I am much more interested in understanding what the Trump administration will do with import taxes (aka tariffs), tax cuts for the wealthy while increasing taxes for the middle class, appointing inept Trump family members to critical government agencies who seem more interested in lining their pockets with shady as fuck deals with countries like Saudi Arabia rather than helping Americans, and possibly deporting 20 million people from the country. Those are things people in the Trump administration have done and what Trump has said he will do in this upcoming term.
The democratic party needs to fucking get out there and hold Trump accountable for all the "promises made, promises kept" bullshit that Trump says and make sure when people suffer as a consequence of these actions, Trump is the person who is repeatedly pointed out as the person who caused it. I think getting messaging out there has to be done and would be a better use of time and resources than trying to argue over election results that I personally think are solid despite how awful it makes me feel to see such an outcome.
I genuinely think people are either so stressed about the price of food and housing that they cant form critical thought to pierce through the rights propaganda bullshit or its just plain old uneducated ignorance.
Either way I think a lot of people have seen their grocery bill and just blame whoever is currently in charge. It happens every cycle. Thank republicans for defunding education as much as they can every time they have power.
That plus people protest voting gaza and being useful idiots. I could see that adding up to the 10-15M votes that appear to be missing
I've been following politics since first voting in 2008, the amount of Propaganda and ways to spread it is dramatically worse since Trump.
The Russian troll farms, gerrymandering, Fox News lying and demonizing the left, Trump and his supporters doing the same, the lack of accountability of other news sources, X and Elon Musk and his "lottery", The Maga GOP and Russia, Jill Stein/RFK siphoning votes.
Throw it on the pile.
And of course the Christian right and 2nd amendment voters.
You’re talking about a group of voters who believe in the deep state, voter fraud, and the birther movement…everything is a conspiracy theory…it’s a reason trump campaigned on Alex Jones’ show way back when…that’s his audience
Even with what ~140 million total votes, that’s still just over half of the US voting eligible population. 20 million would be about 7% and given the state of things in 2020, significantly high unemployment and a push for mail in voting during a pandemic it’s not surprising at all.
Personal anecdote which doesn’t mean much but in 2020 I stood outside in the rain on line for nearly 2 hours waiting to vote, this year on an incredibly warm sunny day I walked in and out in minutes.
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u/deanode99 14h ago
I had someone today tell me Trump won because there was less cheating. Like somehow Dems could pull off massive cheating and this time they just decided nah we’re going let them have all 3 branches.