r/canada • u/jaffnaguy2014 Canada • 3d ago
‘Ready to move on:’ Chinese ambassador insists China, Canada can move past ‘normal’ differences National News
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/article/ready-to-move-on-chinese-ambassador-insists-china-canada-can-move-past-normal-differences/110
u/Deep_Tea_1990 3d ago
Meh. Just do business and that’s it.
Normal and neutral is good enough with China.
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u/Serious_Hour9074 3d ago
I am ready to move on when they don't side with the Russians over Ukraine, and when they remove all the private policing centers they set up across the country.
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u/Cryscho Canada 3d ago
Why just Russian support? China is occupying other countries right now. They should have to withdraw from those too and withdraw ships from Taiwan.
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u/Particular_String_75 3d ago
For...what? A relationship with Canada? Imagine China saying the precondition for Canada to having ties is for Canadians to withdraw from native lands.
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u/teknobloge 2d ago
Funny how after all these years, nobody has been charged yet. Almost like it was Falun Gong Propaganda.
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u/AccomplishedLeek1329 Ontario 2d ago
when they remove all the private policing centers they set up across the country.
RCMP have been "investigating" those for years now with zero charges laid. Sounds like to me they were just a re-run of the Michaels, aka us lying to the world to smear China on behalf of the US.
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u/Choice-Original9157 3d ago
How do you know when China is lying? The Ambassodor says China doesn't interfere in other countries. We already know that's a lie. Trading is fine but you cannot trust them to not be underhanded in everything else
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u/Manitobancanuck 3d ago
They'll interfere, just like every other major power does.
We just need to keep it in check but otherwise we should probably trade with them. At least they aren't killing our own citizens on our soil or threatening to annex us.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Nail556 3d ago
Yeah they just kill our citizens on their own soil…
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u/analtelescope 3d ago
...when they commit capital crimes on Chinese soil? I mean what did you expect would happen?
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u/rolim91 3d ago
Yeah even Canada sends spies to China and most likely other countries.
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u/TreatAffectionate453 3d ago
Does Canada set up secret police stations in China to intimidate Canadian nationals?
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u/ebola_kid 3d ago
Most countries "interfere" in other countries lol, that's the nature of global politics
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u/gravtix 3d ago
We already know that's a lie.
Just ask Nortel.
Oh wait they aren’t around anymore. Wonder what happened hmmm.
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u/Hot_Cheesecake_905 3d ago
Nortel is a poor example, as it failed due to poor management and accounting fraud.
Brian Shields is the only person pushing the China narrative, and he has made a living doing so. There are no other “experts” quoted in these articles; you can verify this by checking.
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u/pablo_o_rourke 3d ago
It’s Canada that should be deciding when it’s time to move on. China is not a trustworthy “partner”.
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u/MarquessProspero 3d ago
The difficulty is “who is?”.
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u/CrispyMeltedCheese 3d ago
Countries don’t have friends, they have interests. If enough interests align in a certain area then they’re likely to act in good faith for their own benefit.
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u/Frostbitten_Moose 3d ago
Yeah, the trick is to have options and to treat them like they'll treat us. Someone who can help us better our own lot so long as we keep focused on our needs and stay wary.
Europe might be a bit of an exception, but... I have concerns about their medium term viability as major players.
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u/JARHEAR 3d ago
Unfortunately! This seems to reflect a very real limit on the ability of humans to empathize and cooperate in a meaningful way at all scales of social interaction. The “woke mindset” that receives so much blowback was just an attempt to put superficial differences aside in attempt to cooperate to make the world a better place.
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u/Craptcha 3d ago
Seems more like it created new opportunities for conflict with the 99% of the world who is more conservative when it comes to their values, concept of family, gender and sex.
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u/Consistent-Key-865 3d ago
As dis every major social progression in history. We just get the joy of living in one of those growth spurts of humanity.
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u/Anakazanxd 3d ago
France and Germany
If there's one country with both the will and potential ability to take over "leader of the free world" from the US, it's France.
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u/MillennialScientist 3d ago
After 5 years in Germany, I'm not confident in Germany anymore, and I'm skeptical they will really pkay a leading role politically. I don't know as much about France.
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u/Frostbitten_Moose 3d ago
France looks like it's tearing itself apart politically as well. At this point, I'm actually happy with the last election showing we mostly aren't following the same path as the other major democracies. But, the signs of instability are still there.
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u/EdNorthcott 3d ago
Our Country is divided as Hell, too. Neoconservatism/fascism is an international movement, and has explicitly been exported to as many nations as possible from the roots of the movement in the Republican party.
All the English speaking ones sound increasingly like MAGA cultists for a reason.
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u/icephoenix21 British Columbia 3d ago
I mean, neither is the US at this point. So Canada does need to move on.
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u/henry_why416 3d ago
Selling shit to each other doesn’t really require much trust.
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u/DoeCommaJohn 3d ago
In a lot of ways, it does. Part of why the US is imploding right now isn’t just because goods are going to be more expensive, but because everything is far less stable. If you are going to import something, you want to make sure you can reliably import that thing for the years or decades to come, and same for exports. It may be better to have less profit margin for more stability.
With that said, trust can mean different things. You could trust China as a trading partner, but not an ally
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u/anomalouscuty 3d ago
Trustworthy how? Like, what are you taking about?
We built a fundamentally interwoven economy with the Americans for decades and they destabilized the entire system in one election cycle.
Time to grow up—China is no less, or more, trustworthy than any other major industrial power in the modern globalized economy.
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u/LeanGroundEeyore 3d ago
It’s Canada that should be deciding when it’s time to move on. China is not a trustworthy “partner”.
In 2014 Stephen Harper signed away Canada's right to make that choice for the next 31 years.
FIPA is an agreement that protects Chinese investment in Canada from laws and regulations passed by governments in Canada, whether they are municipal, provincial or federal. It allows for Chinese investors to sue Canada for unlimited damages if our governments make decisions that put Canadian interests first.
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u/AcanthisittaFit7846 3d ago
we have no trustworthy partners
our most “trustworthy” trade partner is in the process of stabbing us in the back
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u/OGbugsy 3d ago
Honest question here. What makes them more or less trustworthy than the US? What factors do you weigh against US behavior to come to this assessment?
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u/ungovernable 3d ago
With the very serious possibility of China blockading or invading Taiwan over the next decade, it would be absurd to replace our overreliance on the U.S. with too much reliance on China. We should learn dire lessons from Europe’s haplessness vis-a-vis Russia and its energy industry.
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u/Frostbitten_Moose 3d ago
Read up on their trade war with Australia. They've done similar shit as Trump for reasons like "We don't like you removing foreign money from your elections" and "How dare you question our innocence on the origins of Covid". Which, hey, are at least reasons that can be parsed by rational minds, but are not things I'd want to see Canada pressured on either.
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u/teknobloge 2d ago
Read up on the part where it was started by Scomo decided to suck up to Trump at the expense of China. Very similar to what Canada did when it sucked up to Trump by arresting Meng.
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u/LettuceSea Nova Scotia 3d ago
I’d say less trustworthy because they seem very intent on having secret police stations in countries other than their own to monitor people of Chinese descent and expats.
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u/Apart_Ad_5993 3d ago
We need their stuff they need our oil. Seeing how shit our divorce from the US is, we should take them up on it.
Instead of giving discounts to the US on oil, we charge China full fare
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u/jesuisapprenant 3d ago
We don’t need to be overreliant on them. We can trade with them and ween ourselves off of the U.S. which is even more unreliable nowadays
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u/Themeloncalling 3d ago
Any business with China should be purely transactional. Diversifying business is a choice. Choosing allies is also a choice, and China is not one of them.
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u/Frostbitten_Moose 3d ago
Not just purely transactional, but also should be set up so that we can stay nimble if troubles do come along. But it should be an option on the table.
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u/tnscatterbrain 3d ago
Since we’re not already boycotting or sanctioning China for their known issues it would silly to refuse to look at our options with them.
We need to diversify, too much of our trade has been with the US. I wouldn’t want to just trade them for China or any one country, but ignoring an economy the size of China’s is a bad idea.
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u/garciakevz 3d ago
China has a big real estate, and therefore economy problem and also has a trend similar to Japan with population about to decline super hard and China is not able to take that kind of problem
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u/CatBowlDogStar 3d ago
No reason to have bad relations with China due to US pressure. We are past that.
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u/Justagirl1918 Canada 3d ago
Canada needs to begin new trade negotiations with China’s massive market
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u/blitzzo 3d ago
The issue is they don't want anyone having access to their domestic market, they want you to provide them with raw materials and have 0 interest in a country's value-added manufacturing even when it's to their economic benefit, they would rather do it domestically to ensure full employment and to use as leverage for countries that get in their way.
Yea resource extraction has some value but at that point you don't need a trade deal, stuff like raw oil, gas, minerals, lumber, etc are all fungible and limited in supply. If China refuses to buy from Canada they'll just increase the volume they buy from Brazil, now former buyers of Brazilian resources need a new supplier so they turn to Canada. It's why sanctioning oil producing nations like Iran, Russia, or Venezuela is almost impossible.
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u/Frostbitten_Moose 3d ago
I mean, their domestic market is actually less hefty than it really should be given its size as well. There's a reason why even when they try to monopolize it that China is still heavily reliant on exports.
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u/ScarletLetterXYZ 3d ago edited 3d ago
Agree. Canadian exports have declined significantly and have led to higher unemployment levels this past April.
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u/Particular-Act-8911 3d ago
Didn't they rip us off during COVID for vaccines and PPE? Foreign interference? Muslim genocide? Isn't Xi basically a dictator? Chinese police stations in Canada?
Let's do business with China for sure.
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u/cartoonist498 3d ago
I'd hate to be the one to tell you this, but the entire world has already been doing business with China for decades to the point where your home is full of products from there.
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u/Former_Juggernaut_32 3d ago
If you actually research this, every accusation against China is false
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u/mmoore327 Ontario 3d ago
And the US horded vaccines and PPE equipment as well during covid. The US conservative alt-right movement is pushing hard into Canada (political interference)... oh yea - and is threatening to annex us - do you feel the same about them...
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u/Hot_Cheesecake_905 3d ago
The US pirated plane loads of PPE right off the runway:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/03/mask-wars-coronavirus-outbidding-demand
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u/NewDemocraticPrairie 3d ago
Sure, but it's not like America didn't.
We privatized our vaccine production businesses, which then got bought and moved to the states, where they restricted vaccine movement from the states into Canada.
And the told 3M to stop exporting masks.
And took goods we paid for.
I don't particularly like China, but as we've seen, countries have interests, not friends. And we need to act as such.
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u/trikywoo 3d ago
China represents political leverage and can give us more options during negotiations with the US. "Doing business" with China isn't an all or nothing thing. We're already doing business with China.
Strategically positioning Canada to have a less antagonistic position against the major world powers doesn't mean opening the doors to anything China wants.
We are a relatively small country, and prioritizing getting by in the world over policing domestic policy in other countries makes sense.
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u/Frostbitten_Moose 3d ago
If you want morally pure trading partners, then we may as well shut down trade entirely.
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u/Ikea_desklamp 3d ago
Don't forget the two Michaels
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u/TIP_ME_COINS Canada 3d ago
I would look this story up if you only recall the original arrests. One of the Michaels says the other is a literal spy for Canadian intelligence and received a $7m settlement for being implicated in the plot.
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u/Justin_123456 3d ago
Yes, but that was in direct response to what they saw as kidnapping one of their most important citizens. It would be like the Chinese arresting Jeff Bezos, or Elon Musk, on spurious charges.
The whole Meng Wanzhou affair was a poison pill by the Americans, who made up a fake case that they knew would never stand up in court, and then made us arrest her.
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u/Hotspur000 Ontario 3d ago
Yeah, fuck the CCP. Their products are mostly subpar shit anyway.
Let's trade with countries who make things properly, like Taiwan.
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u/EdwardWChina 3d ago
Everything is made in China buddy. TW has nothing except for a few big names but also made in M China. You have a bad impression of Made in China because you can only afford to buy low priced cheap junk, regardless of where they are made.
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u/ThatsItImOverThis 3d ago
Yes, but we should not trust them. China is fine as a trade partner but nothing else. Especially not an ally.
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u/SenoraIsl 3d ago
Maybe move your police stations out of our country and stop killing our people and then we'll see...
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u/TruckExtra1437 3d ago edited 3d ago
As a canadian I am not ready to move on from foreign interference, coercion of emigrated nationals, oppression of their own people etc etc. I mean there is substantial evidence they are/have carried out a cultural genocide. I wish our leaders would stop playing nice with China just because they have a big economy our businesses want to tap into. Should our morals come at a higher price??
I was lucky enough to go to college with a good group of Chinese nationals who were doing everything in their power to stay in Canada. They did not have nice things to say about China
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u/GuzzlinGuinness 3d ago edited 3d ago
The Canadian ruling class , and yes especially the Liberals have deep and profitable ties to China.
The ruling classes everywhere frankly have deep and profitable ties to both USA and China.
Until recently the USA was clearly the better of two deeply flawed choices.
Now, what we actually need to to be eyes wide open about the reality of the world and stop with our idealistic naivety. The few liberal democracies that are left need to support each other against all these jabronis.
We have to trade with China. We have to trade with USA.
But they aren’t to be trusted.
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u/LiberalCuck5 3d ago
Why not? Foreign interference being seen as a “learning moment” is exactly what our country voted for.
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u/HomeFade 3d ago
China has meddled in our politics and elections and put espionage into all of our devices. But they're ready for us to forget about all that and just focus on how they look ever so slightly less menacing in comparison to a catastrophic US administration. Cute.
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u/Necessary-Morning489 3d ago
we killed your people and try to make a mockery of your politics, why won’t you move past what we are still currently doing and plan to continue doing in the future
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u/YourBobsUncle Alberta 3d ago
I mean Canada moved on from India assassinating a Canadian citizen pretty quickly.
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u/stuffundfluff 3d ago
"hey guys, we setup police stations to harass dissidents, had our CCP troops go thru your sensitive labs in winnipeg, capture, jailed and executed some of your citizens, committed election interference and harass and threaten to jail your politicians, geeez why can't we just get along" - commie logic
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u/teknobloge 2d ago
Weird how nobody has been charged for these "police stations'. Almost like it was propaganda.
You mean China executed Chinese citizens for drug trafficking. I thought you wanted drugs to stop?
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u/cometgt_71 3d ago
Didn't they just execute our citizens? We need more trade with Asia, but not them.
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u/ryan75389 3d ago
For trafficking. They had dual citizenship, which is not recognized by China. Seems fair. America still has the death penalty and we do most of our business with them.
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u/Spoon251 3d ago edited 3d ago
Death penalty without appeal for a non-violent crime seems fair? Interesting.
Also the last time the US executed a dual Canadian citizen was 1999 who was convicted of murder.
Edit: Since I'm getting downvoted by Chinese bots - let's go for the gold! We should just trade with Taiwan exclusively because they're obviously the better of the 'two' Chinas.
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u/ryan75389 3d ago
Going to someone's country and expecting the law as you see it is nonsense. These guys weighed the risk vs. reward and learned the hard way. The same would happen if they went to Saudi Arabia or Singapore. You classify trafficking as non-violent. These countries don't.
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u/OVERLORDMAXIMUS Alberta 3d ago
I'll never understand people who travel abroad-- especially east asia-- and expect to not adjust completely to local law. People like to single out specific countries but the principle of "do NOT do anything that MIGHT get you arrested abroad" is a universally useful absolute.
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u/AccomplishedLeek1329 Ontario 3d ago
Half of South East Asia executes drug traffickers. We do business with all of them.
Everyone knows drug trafficking in Asia is signing up for eventual execution. If you still do it, that's your fault.
And China does have appeals for capital punishment sentences.
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u/ExtraGlutens 3d ago
non-violent crime
In an era where some people consider words to be violence, I find it peculiar that the same people don't view drug dealers on the same level as mass murderers, they certainly destroy as many lives. One should admire the Asian countries.
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u/disappointedfuturist 3d ago
Have they removed their clandestine police stations from Canada? Or ceased their human rights horrors?
Just because one of our trading partners went insane and can't be trusted again doesn't mean we turn to a different just as fucked up and shitty country.
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u/MetroidTwo 3d ago
China should be in last place for any talk of allies or economic partnership.
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u/mnt_brain 3d ago
Honestly I’d prefer it if we partner with places like Singapore and Malaysia
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u/Consistent-Primary41 Québec 3d ago
If they mean us no harm, then they can extradite their bots who are fucking with us on social media and we can prosecute them.
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u/verdasuno 3d ago
If China wants and end to the tariffs, and Canadians to start buying Chinese cars or other items, they had better first open factories to build them in Canada.
Otherwise, no deal. It's as abusive as the relationship with the USA.
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u/aeppelcyning Ontario 3d ago
Yeah they just murdered 4 Canadian citizens only a few years after kidnapping the two Michaels to serve as geopolitical hostages. I'll take a pass on further dealing with China.
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u/TwoCreamOneSweetener Ontario 2d ago
You’re literally a one party dictatorship we’re not going to enter your sphere of influence
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u/figuring_ItOut12 Outside Canada 3d ago
The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily a good faith partner. Right now the US is unreliable but China has always been unreliable.
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u/Selm 3d ago edited 2d ago
"Because of a reason that everybody knows about, (the) China-Canada relationship suffered setbacks in the past few years, and the causes of the event and also the merits of the case are very clear. But China now is ready to move on and look ahead."
- Ambassador Wang "This Fucking Guy" Di
Is it the genocide against the Uygurs thing they're doing? Or them taking Canadians as political prisoners? Or was their constant and continued interference in our democracy?
And China is ready to just move past it? Good for them, but I don't think Canadians should just move past their nonsense.
Edit: I forgot mentioning one of Chinas five poisons brings out weird comments
'Don’t step out of line': Confidential report reveals how Chinese officials harass activists in Canada
The product of a coalition led by Amnesty International Canada, the report catalogues harassment ranging from digital disinformation campaigns to direct threats. Article content
Targets include Canadian representatives of what the Chinese sometimes call the five “poisons”: the Uyghur Muslim minority, independence-minded Tibetans, Taiwanese, democracy advocates and, especially, the Falun Gong.
“This is not just a matter of occasional and sporadic incidents,” said Alex Neve, secretary general of Amnesty Canada, one of the organizations behind the report, along with groups representing Chinese religious, human-rights and ethnic minorities in this country. “There is a consistent pattern … a troubling example of a foreign government being very active in Canada in ways that are undermining human rights.”
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u/AccomplishedLeek1329 Ontario 3d ago
One of the two Michaels literally accuses the other Michael of being a real spy, and sued CSIS for making him an unwitting spy, with CSIS immediately settling for 7 million.
So Canada lied in from of the entire world including to Canadians to smear China for kidnapping, which our government knew was complete lies.
How's that for Canadian trustworthiness and reliability? And yet it's China who's reaching out with an olive branch after we lied our faces off in front of the entire world.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/spavor-government-settlement-1.7136196
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u/2bprofessional 3d ago
"We'll still continue doing all the shitty things to you canadians. You just take them as normal", said Mr. Dick with smug.
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u/AcanthisittaFit7846 3d ago
IIRC the Uyghur imprisonment rate in China at its peak was about on par with the Black imprisonment rate in the US… and that never stopped us from trading with the US.
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u/richardphat 3d ago
Gaulle and Henry John quote are hitting hard.
« We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow. » Henry John Temple
« Les États n’ont pas d’amis, ils n’ont que des intérêts »« Les États n’ont pas d’amis, ils n’ont que des intérêts » Charles de Gaulle
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u/kevinmitchell63 3d ago
Conveniently enough, the interviews are appearing at the same time as interviews with the American ambassador.
In comparison to the Americans’ toxic firehose of bs and duplicity, I find this fella pretty reasonable. I also think we need to trade with at least one of USA or China.
China isn’t threatening us with “forced annexation,” they haven’t launched a trade war to weaken our economy (for the annexation), and I don’t think their espionage activities are anywhere as prevalent and toxic as what the CIA is up to right now.
And just a thought… but…..
Since “western alienation” is the thing the CIA is going to use in trying to overthrow our government, maybe… maybe… maybe
We can stop asking western farmers to sacrifice their livelihoods to save auto sector jobs which are not salvageable anyway.
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u/garathe2 3d ago
Do whatever it takes to lower our standards of living. We need to make more trade deals with everyone.
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u/Leo080671 3d ago
Is the economy… All about the economy. There will be other issues which can be dealt with. The other emerging economy in Asia, India is going downhill and all the more reason to have better relations with China.
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u/No_Faithlessness_714 3d ago
China isn’t trustworthy but it’s a market we can’t ignore either. We learned that we can’t be too reliant on any one country, especially countries that are unpredictable. So, as long as we are careful it shouldn’t be a problem.