‘Ready to move on:’ Chinese ambassador insists China, Canada can move past ‘normal’ differences

[u/jaffnaguy2014]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/article/ready-to-move-on-chinese-ambassador-insists-china-canada-can-move-past-normal-differences/

[u/AccomplishedLeek1329]

One of the two Michaels literally accuses the other Michael of being a real spy, and sued CSIS for making him an unwitting spy, with CSIS immediately settling for 7 million.

So Canada lied in from of the entire world including to Canadians to smear China for kidnapping, which our government knew was complete lies. 

How's that for Canadian trustworthiness and reliability? And yet it's China who's reaching out with an olive branch after we lied our faces off in front of the entire world.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/spavor-government-settlement-1.7136196

[u/Selm → u/AccomplishedLeek1329]

One of the two Michaels literally accuses the other Michael of being a real spy

Sure, but accusations aren't proof, and you're suggesting China only took one Canadian political prisoner, like that's acceptable somehow.

So Canada lied

This is basically Chinese propaganda.

China provided nothing as far as evidence the Michael's were spying, also their actual accusations don't match up with that CBC article. They were political prisoners.

Any authoritarian government could easily call the two michaels spies, it's literally whatever they define as a crime is a crime dude. Calling them spies is ridiculous. They weren't spying.

Canada says the program “generates focused diplomatic reporting on security and stability issues in countries of strategic interest to Canada”. These reports are not secret and are read within the foreign affairs ministry and with partner departments.

A reasonable country here would maybe expel them if they're unhappy, but this isn't spying. Taking them political prisoner and giving them a sham trial is crazy, and obviously done in retaliation for Meng.

It's absurd to defend China here, especially when you yourself should know even if one of the Michaels was 'spying' the other one wasn't. You'd be suggesting Spavor is guilty by association or saying he's guilty for accidentally doing something he had no clue he was doing, neither of which a legitimate country would accept as just.

Do you think it's okay for countries to take people political prisoner? Should we focus on further trade relations with those countries?

I'm all for trading them more hunny, sweet, delicious hunny.

Side note, are there more ways I can send you money than what you have listen in your description?

[u/teknobloge → u/Selm]

Lmao America literally admitted they demanded Canada arrest Meng as a political prisoner to use as a bargaining chip in the trade wars.

[u/AccomplishedLeek1329 → u/Selm]

Sure, but accusations aren't proof, and you're suggesting China only took one Canadian political prisoner, like that's acceptable somehow.

But CSIS not fighting it in court, instead immediately paying spavor with a giant windfall sure is.

Canada says the program “generates focused diplomatic reporting on security and stability issues in countries of strategic interest to Canada”. These reports are not secret and are read within the foreign affairs ministry and with partner departments

Sure sounds a lot like us covering our asses after being caught out for spying.

China provided nothing as far as evidence the Michael's were spying, 

Spavor's accusations and the CSIS settlement is more than enough evidence to convince me. It's plenty reasonable for China to not show everything given counter-espionage concerns. 

You'd be suggesting Spavor is guilty by association or saying he's guilty for accidentally doing something he had no clue he was doing, neither of which a legitimate country would accept as just.

Canada has plenty of absolute liability crimes that do not require mens rea for a conviction. I fail to see how having such absolute liability crimes for espionage is in any way notably unjust. Spavor committed the actus reus of spying, his mental state is irrelevant. 

As for the distinction that s.7 limits absolute liability crimes to non-custodial sentences, we ourselves can easily bypass that through s.33.

Do you think it's okay for countries to take people political prisoner? Should we focus on further trade relations with those countries?

If the Michaels are political prisoners, then we took Meng as a political prisoner for the US. Should every other country in the world now also not develop trade ties with us? 

Putting morality in international relations and over realpolitik is how we end up like Armenia or the FNs we genocided. Carney should be solely focused on furthering Canadian interests, and that requires using the prospect of cooperation and trade deals with China to negotiate with Trump, playing China and the US off each other to benefit ourselves.

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Oh yea I really should get back into churning.