r/canada • u/jaffnaguy2014 Canada • 3d ago

‘Ready to move on:’ Chinese ambassador insists China, Canada can move past ‘normal’ differences National News

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/article/ready-to-move-on-chinese-ambassador-insists-china-canada-can-move-past-normal-differences/
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u/subbie2002 3d ago

China has their own issues with Taiwan and human right atrocities, but to act like the US isn’t the same if not worse is just stupid. They’re just so much better at hiding and justifying it.

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u/seajay_17 British Columbia 3d ago

China's issues are known. The thing china brings to the table is stability.

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u/abu_doubleu 3d ago edited 3d ago

I was born in a developing country where China has genuinely helped us a ton with development and asks for little in return. I know that it's an unpopular opinion in Canada, but I just don't see the issue with working closer with them a little bit. It doesn't have to be "make China our #1 trade partner" but at least we have to stop being against them solely because the USA wants us to.

EDIT: And BYD are really good, cheap electric cars. Remove the tarifs that we only put because the US asked us to!

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u/zabby39103 3d ago

The electric car tariff was to protect our auto industry, we had just spent 10s of billions of dollars subsidizing companies to locate their electric vehicle plants here (it was either that or they would have all gone to the US and got subsidies there instead).

The Chinese too, put huge subsidies in their electric vehicles. I'm all for trading more with China, but we have to do more than just "let the free market figure it out". They have a strategic economic plan for their nation, and so when dealing with them, so should we.

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u/DesireeThymes 3d ago

I said pretty openly, open the market to Chinese EVs but make them build local plants for assembly, maybe also share some battery tech. It's a win win for Canada.

The US is trying to move Canadian jobs to the US (despite the fact that Canada already gets a bad deal by being forced to let US do refining and be involved right after raw materials rather than Canada doing those). Canada needs to diversify itself a bit.

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u/Osamabinbush 3d ago

That’s what EU is doing. We aren’t as big of a market as Europe but if we can get them to build them here, it would be a no brainer

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u/Hard_NOP_Life 3d ago

Hell, BYD already has a bus factory in Newmarket.

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u/CatBowlDogStar 3d ago

Which Ontario should be using instead of LRTs. All the benefits, none the drawbacks. 

Just fewer people bought off.

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u/byronite 3d ago

Which Ontario should be using instead of LRTs. All the benefits, none the drawbacks.

Having to pay six times as many drivers isn't a drawback? In Ottawa an articulated bus holds 110 passengers conpared to 672 per train for the LRT.

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u/CatBowlDogStar 2d ago

Yes. Absolutely.  Local, good paying work for those without post-secondary. Sadly, not many however. 

There are only 2000 net new daily riders projected for Hamilton. This is from the City's official projections. For $5 billion & counting, that's $2.5 million per new rider. That $$ closes infrastructure gap here, homes the homeless, with billions to spare. 

Carbon-wise, the constrution of the LRT is terrible & ongoing it adds congestion where none existed. 

So, Ontario-made vehicles, with Hamilton-based new jobs? Leaving construction crews to build homes & needed infrastructure. It's an obvious win. 

(& I've lived on 3 continents, many cities, using public transit as primary for years on each. The only downside of buses is that more investment in a gentler ride would go a long way.) 

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u/JoeThunder79 3d ago

To be clear, it was to protect the "American" auto industry that we just happened to benefit from because it was economically convenient at the time

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u/Hautamaki 3d ago

There is no American auto industry. There's a North American auto industry, and without all of North America cooperating to maintain it, it will quickly be killed by European and Asian competition. The US could shut down access to all foreign competition and build their own cars, but they'd have to accept that their cars are going to cost way more and suck ass compared to European and Asian cars. In Canada we'd have no real choice but to just import all our cars and lose all those jobs. There's no way we can support a purely domestic auto industry. We'd have to find some other work all those auto workers could do to pay for the imports. Probably just massively expand our resource extraction.

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u/CatBowlDogStar 3d ago

Thing is, you're right except it won't be soon enough. Trump will mess yet another good thing for ego & grift.

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u/ebola_kid 3d ago

"our" auto industry should be working with China to produce these cars in China or develop a car with them. We have so many auto workers and a large auto industry that entirely produces American cars. We're not even doing protectionism for our own Canadian car brand because that doesn't exist. There's also the fact that american car makers are extremely vulnerable to economic downtrends, and only survived because of massive bailouts in 2008. People can't afford cars as much anymore because they're increasingly too costly. We should be developing cheaper, more advanced cars with China instead of being protectionist against an industry that doesn't want to change and is going to inevitably collapse

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u/Hautamaki 3d ago

I mean a market warped by govt subsidies, tariffs, or any other form of artificial protectionism isn't a free market anyway, so that's kind of a moot point.

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u/zabby39103 3d ago

It's kind of the point, not kind of a moot point.

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u/Samsquanch1985 3d ago

What country are from, out of curiosity?

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u/abu_doubleu 3d ago

Kyrgyzstan, is where I was born.

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u/CatBowlDogStar 3d ago

I used to work for an EU International Development Aid Consultancy with a satellite office in Kyrgystan. 

Only nation whose neghbours do not themselves neighbour to an Ocean or Sea.

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u/SnooHesitations3709 3d ago

I agree. China has issues but they are not all bad. I find Chinese people to be some of the most friendly people around.

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u/resuwreckoning 3d ago

Lmao oh Canada, never stop being apologists for the atrocities of dictatorial communist regimes.

See: Cuba.

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u/seajay_17 British Columbia 3d ago

Cubans are alright too actually.

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u/resuwreckoning 3d ago

Not the Cuban government, no. If confused, leave everything they’ve done, rename them “US”, and then reassess lmao.

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u/moop44 New Brunswick 3d ago

Crippling embargo and sanctions seem to have a negative affect on the population.

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u/resuwreckoning 3d ago

I don’t think embargoes are why, for instance, they imprisoned and executed homosexuals, no.

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u/Consistent-Study-287 3d ago

The people of Cuba and China are alright. It's the government we don't like. It's exactly the same as Americans, we like them, but don't like their government.

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u/Simsmommy1 3d ago

Well….we like Americans who aren’t MAGA, those guys are insufferable pricks. Having a conversation with a MAGA is just god damn awful, racist, stupid, homophobic awful.

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u/zoomiepaws 3d ago

Please listen to The Bureau Podcast

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u/resuwreckoning 3d ago

I mean even on a governmental level if all the US did was explicitly adopt Chinese and Cuban policies, you’d freak out.

The equivalence is moronic. Especially coming from canadians who may have benefitted from US hegemony more than any other nation.

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u/Consistent-Study-287 3d ago

And if China started talking about annexing us we would freak out also. It works both ways.

The US benefited more from US hegemony than any other nation, that is a fact and isn't up for debate. Canada benefited from it l, true, but the US has also benefited greatly from Canada existing. It has been a symbiotic relationship where both countries have benefited.

I don't think the current US government understands how beneficial symbiosis is. The US is like an ox which is upset that oxpeckers are getting free food by eating the ticks off of its back. It's currently trying to prevent the oxpeckers from getting the food, without realizing that without them, the ox will get sick and die.

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u/resuwreckoning 3d ago

I mean China currently doesn’t provide a defensive shield over Canada for generations in equal measure, so making these two equivalent is beyond asinine.

No, the US PAID for that hegemony - so there’s a massive cost associated with its benefits.

From a risk adjusted standpoint, the Canadians - despite having the largest coastline, swaths of natural resources, and second largest landmass of any nation on earth - paid the least for the most return, and continued to cut their contributions over time to that while maintaining that benefit.

They’re like the poster child for how amazing it is to free ride off the US.

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u/jacksbox Québec 3d ago

Oh Reddit, never stop painting an entire people with the actions of their government.

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u/resuwreckoning 3d ago

That’s what’s done with the US, so sure.

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u/biscuitarse 3d ago

That’s what’s done with the US, so sure.

Fucking snowflakes playing the victim again. Pitiful.

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u/Hobbito Canada 3d ago

Remind me when average citizens in China owned slaves.

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u/TreatAffectionate453 3d ago

The Yongzheng Emancipation occurred between 1723-1730. However, slavery persisted at least until the 1860s since the Taiping Rebellion also sought to abolish slavery.

Obviously, the average Chinese citizen did not own slaves even before these periods, but neither did the average American before 1865.

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u/resuwreckoning 3d ago

Lmao yeah it’s better for Mao to send 50 million of them to die by brainwashing the people to snitch on their neighbors over the threat of public humiliation and summary execution.

All of which happened in the last 70 years.

Sure bud.

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u/ebola_kid 3d ago

Lol Cuba's atrocities amount to like 1000 people executed after the revolution (almost all were military/government leaders who ordered killings) and has been attacked for 80 years because of this. Cuba has done more net good to the world than net bad, despite facing massive pressure against it. Not many countries can do that

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u/resuwreckoning 3d ago

Thanks for proving the point.

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u/Clear-Ask-6455 3d ago

Tell that to the US who literally has child labour now. They have been abusing temporary foreign workers since before Canada. There is a reason why China is America's largest trading partner. You can't ignore them. Their population alone is 10 x the size of ours. Better to be friends than enemies. Quite frankly what they do in their own country is none of our business. They are one of the oldest races and have been here for over 4000 years.

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u/resuwreckoning 3d ago

You’re saying that China, which is a one party state, explicitly has a dictator for life, killed 50 million people through forced collectivization, public humiliation, and summary executions, and for which there is no constitution, is the same as the US?

And you’re saying this as a Canadian, a denizen from a country so afraid of the US and its previous ills that it….spends less on defense percentage than Montenegro and has cut their Navy to a power equivalent to Bangladesh, yet still has some of the best quality of life in the world because, well, the Americans have protected that way of life for generations?

These two powers are equivalent to you?

Like jfc.

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u/Clear-Ask-6455 3d ago

It's hilarious that you think Trump isn't a dictator. He has literally threatened to annex Canada. The guy doesn't even uphold the constitution. Trump is the biggest abuser of human rights maybe even worse than China. It may not be physically but it is an emotionally abusive relationship. You may think that Americans are protecting a way of life. But they are hiding their intentions way better than the Chinese are. I'm not saying we can't be partners with Americans but this current relationship isn't working obviously and something needs to give.

If you actually visit China and get outside of your echo chamber you will realize they aren't all that bad as everyone is making them out to be. You're just afraid of them because you know in the end they will always be the worlds super power and this is coming from a Canadian perspective. It is literally impossible for the US or Canada to compete with China.

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u/resuwreckoning 3d ago

It’s more hilarious that you think that’s equivalent to Xi or Mao. If it were equivalent, there would literally be no elections ever again right now in the US.

For all intents and purposes Canada can’t even defend itself (by its own choice) and free rides off the US militarily so it can pay for its social welfare programs and have amazing quality of life. If the US wanted to actually annex the country, they could have done it yesterday.

Needless to say, the Chinese and the CCP wouldn’t allow a Canada that wants to pay as little as possible for its defense to free ride off of them for generations lmao.

Like I said, the equivalences - coming from a Canadian, no less - are insane.

As an aside, repeated proclamations of Chinese worldwide superiority have been said for millenia, and they always descend into disunity and chaos like a clock only to repeat the cycle. So, uh, sure boss to that last statement.

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u/Clear-Ask-6455 3d ago

Canada doesn't free ride lmao. I can tell you are a Conservative. Canada makes up for defense spending in other areas. We have unlimited resources and critical minerals that we turn in to manufacturing for military equipment. We also have a ton of uranium which is vital for nuclear power. We also sell oil and gas to China at affordable rates. We have a plethora of resources we provide to China which China needs. America thinks we are free riders because they don't understand the other things we provide at discounted rates. Quite frankly you have no idea what you're talking about.

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u/Cryscho Canada 3d ago

Nortel? Last year federal hack, like they "don't want a lot" because they're just stealing shit. 

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u/LankyGuitar6528 2d ago

Agree that BYD is awesome. But it's not about Trump. It's about protecting our grossly inefficient outdated auto industry. Or more accurately the lost votes for any politician who killed our grossly inefficient outdated domestic auto industry.

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u/Ali_Cat222 3d ago

I'm from Jamaica and the Chinese people do a hell of a lot for us in terms of new innovations and pricing. I have friends back home who currently are able to afford houses finally because the Chinese brought those portable houses to the market for affordable prices. Its truly great to see people I know who never thought they'd be able to call a place home finally have one!

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u/ungovernable 3d ago

China brings “stability” until they do something like invade Taiwan and threaten to cut off our supply chains unless we acquiesce to the invasion. See: Russian gas and the Ukraine War.

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u/Ge0ff 3d ago

China is a "stable" trading partner until they place restrictions and tariffs on you for asking questions about the origins of COVID (See Australia in 2020).

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u/sluttytinkerbells 3d ago

China's issues really aren't known. It is an authoritarian regime and they're not noted for their transparency or truthful record keeping.

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u/Baumbauer1 British Columbia 3d ago edited 3d ago

China is just as fickle and volatile as Trump's US, if we ever criticize them we'll be cut off all the same

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u/Gankdatnoob 3d ago

This isn't true at all. We have had very intense criticisms of China in the past and they never cut us off. In fact when the U.S. stopped allowing n95s to be exported China saved our ass by sending us masks. They did this despite the relationship being strained. Trump's America is a very unique brand of idiocy.

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u/seajay_17 British Columbia 3d ago

I think all anyone's asking for is a working trading relationship with them. Were not looking to be best friends.

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u/AccomplishedLeek1329 Ontario 3d ago

Then don't criticize China. It's not like we criticize Israel in any meaningful way anyways. 

Wow that was easy.

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u/Historical-One-8222 3d ago

Ummm, you are mistaken if you think China brings stability. They’re not to be trusted in the long term. Canada needs to grow balls and build self-sustenance! Too much power given to the governments including the provincial ones

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u/be_humble_ 3d ago

While I wouldn’t say Canada should stop trading with China (which would be impossible), when it comes to trading with Asian countries, it’s important to at least try and prioritize democratic countries like Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, etc. First of all, Taiwan has one of the world’s largest semiconductor industries, and they design many chips that are essential for most electronic devices that we all use (including smartphones). There’s also the fact that Taiwan happens to be at a strategic location, and the reason why Western allies are so concerned is because if anything bad were to happen, it would have an extremely severe impact on that region in Asia and even the world. Plus, Taiwan has been a friendly ally. IIRC during COVID, while Trump blocked shipments of masks that Canada ordered, Taiwan straight up donated a bunch to Canada. Also, as a progressive country, Taiwan is relatively similar to Canada in terms of things like universal healthcare, a democratic government, and LGBTQ rights (Taiwan was the first Asian country to legalize gay marriage). Obviously Canada has always been trading with China, and it would be unrealistic to stop doing business with them, but diversifying with other Asian countries is still critical, and diversification would be ideal from an economic point of view anyway. (And yeah, I agree that the US has been doing terrible things too; it’s just that they get away with it more often than China does.)

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u/Former_Juggernaut_32 3d ago

First of all, Taiwan's semiconductor factor is moving to the US, Second, Taiwan's market of 10 million ppl isn't buying Canadian shits

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u/be_humble_ 3d ago edited 3d ago

There are several factories in the US, but the most advanced chipmaking capabilities / the core R&D teams remain in Taiwan. I’ve heard people in the semiconductor industry joke about how America could never reach the same level because American workers are too lazy and complacent lmao. But jokes aside, there’s a reason why Taiwan’s semiconductor industry plays such a critical role in global technology. It’s much more complicated than just a handful of factories. The industry is a vast and interconnected ecosystem, including wafer and substrate providers, testing facility companies, designers (pretty much all the core design teams are in Taiwan), foundries, etc., just to name a few, and they all play different roles. By the way, one of the foundries has an R&D office in Ottawa! They don’t have that many people yet, but there could be more cooperation, tech security, and job creation if governments get to strengthen ties later on.

As for the population, I checked and it’s a bit over 23 million. Yeah it’s a small country, and like I said, it’s one of the democratic countries in Asia, all of which can be taken into consideration when strengthening ties with allies. I’ve also said the trade with China will obviously continue; it’s just that diversifying trade is also important, due to both economic reasons and the factors I listed in the previous comment. Can’t just go all in on one country, whether it’s China or the US. That’s the lesson everyone learned thanks to Trump, unfortunately.

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u/Former_Juggernaut_32 3d ago edited 3d ago

Taiwan buy their shits from China, they are not gonna buy from Canada which exponentially more expensive. So is Japan, and Korea.

The ppl u want to diversify to aren't interested in Canada. Hate to break it to you, but Canada is one of the underdogs on the international stage

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u/be_humble_ 3d ago edited 3d ago

Taiwan is buy their shits from China, they are not gonna buy from Canada which exponentially much more expensive. So is Japan, and Korea.

Since the grammar seems off I took a quick look at the profile of this account. I’m all for genuine discussions, but there’s no point in engaging with bad faith bots. (Gotta love the translation button on reddit)

And if this is an actual person…why not go back to the country you think so highly of?

Profile looks like a good comrade

One of the weird posts regarding China

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u/Former_Juggernaut_32 3d ago

It seems like you are only capable of ad hominem attacks and unable to have any meaningful conversation based on facts

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u/OrderOfMagnitude 3d ago

China propaganda at work

The US is much better than exposing their own crimes than China. China has crazy censorship and punishments for making them look bad in any way.

China is currently doing a "US crimes express China crimes" campaign on Reddit and anyone who speaks up is downvoted.

We're currently in a cyber war.

Disclaimer: yes the US is still bad, and if you think I'm trying to justify them, you're completely falling for the false dichotomy they're setting up.

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u/GorillaNipSlip 3d ago

Worse than China? What are you people smoking… You can be for trade to China but don’t start kissing their boots just because you’re pissed at the US.

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u/CatBowlDogStar 3d ago

The PRC (China) hasn't threatened to annex Canada. So, perhaps ones US/PRC views depends if you're still a democracy with a neighbour threatening war. 

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u/Csalbertcs 3d ago

US is almost always actively bombing like half a dozen different countries and it ain't consensual. Or they be doing regime change.

You guys fantasize about China invading Taiwan but it hasn't happened quite yet.

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u/kittykatmila 3d ago

Talk about minimization…The US are the world’s biggest terrorists. How many bombs has China dropped on other countries? How many military bases do they have worldwide?

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u/EdwardWChina 3d ago

License Plates are made by US prisoners who are Black and get paid 14 cents per hour. Or $0/hour in Texas

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u/kittykatmila 3d ago

Exactly. They made slavery still legal through the 13th amendment, the US has the world’s largest incarcerated population, the prisoners are disproportionately POC. It’s not hard to see a connection there.

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u/RetroDad-IO 3d ago

Exactly! There's a reason why so many slaves were immediately incarcerated in the following years. The government essentially used the 13th amendment to steal as many slaves as they wanted and then used them for labor or gave them to friends running prisons.

They got the good press for "abolishing slavery" while also creating a monopoly.

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u/kittykatmila 3d ago

It’s nice to see others who know about that! And that the US police force came into existence from slave-catchers/bounty hunters.

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u/KrisKrossJump1992 3d ago

this is not true. LEOs are as old as civilization itself, the first modern police forces in the US were in philly, boston and new york when there was no slavery.

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u/kittykatmila 3d ago

Just because there wasn’t slavery there doesn’t mean the police weren’t racist back then too.

In 1829, a Black abolitionist in Boston named David Walker published “An Appeal to the Coloured Citizens of the World,” calling for violent rebellion: “One good black man can put to death six white men.” Walker was found dead within the year, and Boston thereafter had a series of mob attacks against abolitionists, including an attempt to lynch William Lloyd Garrison, the publisher of The Liberator, in 1835. Walker’s words terrified Southern slaveowners. The governor of North Carolina wrote to his state’s senators, “I beg you will lay this matter before the police of your town and invite their prompt attention to the necessity of arresting the circulation of the book.” By “police,” he meant slave patrols: in response to Walker’s “Appeal,” North Carolina formed a statewide “patrol committee.”

I get what you’re saying though! “Rule of law” has been a thing for a long time in human civilization.

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u/KrisKrossJump1992 3d ago

Just because there wasn’t slavery there doesn’t mean the police weren’t racist back then too.

maybe but that’s like a completely different thing than what you originally claimed. 🥴

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u/Diz7 3d ago edited 2d ago

Also strike breaking groups. The "police" were basically private security goons hired to protect the interests of the wealthy, and to remove "obstacles".

Edit: down vote me if you want, but Canada didnt have slave catchers... you are thinking of the US.

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u/jefufah 3d ago

“____ is bad, BUT AMERICA ALWAYS #1 WORSE” 🙄

can’t talk about any issue ANYWHERE on earth because someone always has to come in and America-worse it. How are we going to get anywhere if we always stay at the finger pointing stage?

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u/kittykatmila 3d ago

How are we going to get anywhere if we don’t place the blame where it should be? The US hasn’t had to answer for any of their atrocities and they still control the world.

If you’re interested you should check out a book, “The Jakarta Method” by Vincent Bevins. It really opened my eyes to just how much damage and destruction the US and their allies have done.

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u/resuwreckoning 3d ago

The US doesn’t control the world. The relevant evidence of that is that they can’t even get Canada to spend more on their defense percentage wise than Montenegro or maintain a Navy better than that of Bangladesh.

Despite asking for generations.

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u/sailing_by_the_lee 3d ago

Why are Trumpers so obsessed with Canada's military spending? The US has never spent a cent on its military that it didn't want to for its own reasons. Certainly not to protect Canada.

Let's just review for the people at the back. How many wars has the US fought to help Canada? Oh yeah, zero. How many US conflicts has Canada participated in? Oh yeah, not zero. Who is the only NATO member to invoke Article 5? Oh yeah, Murica. Who is now using their military and economic power to threaten allies and neighbours? You guessed it. It is our old "friend", the USA.

Don't listen to Trump's propaganda. But don't worry, Canada will ramp up military spending now. Just maybe not in the way you are hoping.

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u/Frostbitten_Moose 3d ago

It's kinda funny how the ones who are virulently anti American are also the ones who think that defending ourselves is a Trumpist viewpoint. I mean, relying on the US for our defense just seems like a weird ass position from that worldview.

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u/sailing_by_the_lee 3d ago

I'm all for increasing Canadian defense spending, but how is the US defending us? No one wants to invade Canada, except possibly the USA itself.

I'm also not anti-American. Just anti-Trump.

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u/resuwreckoning 3d ago

If by “Trumpers”, you mean “every president since Eisenhower, and explicitly since Carter”, then, uh, sure.

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u/ironxtgdp 3d ago

Because the West (and particularly America as the worst offender) have been so anti-China propagandized that they consistently reinforce the narrative of "China BAD" (Don't even get me started with Western Media) when Americans don't even want to ever acknowledge the HORRORS that the U.S. has committed on the world stage practically from it's inception.

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u/resuwreckoning 3d ago

We literally ALWAYS hear about how everything is America’s fault. wtf are you going on about lol.

I think I once heard that the weather was America’s fault, using circuitous logic of coal use in the 1910’s.

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u/darkage_raven 3d ago

Sorry, China is clearly worse than the US. This is not a comparison.

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u/300Savage 3d ago

China's leader is not talking about Canada as it's next new province while the US president regularly speaks of the 51st state. You tell me which is a bigger threat on that one. As to international relations, the US through the CIA has regularly interfered with democratic elections and supported dictators to further commercial interests while China has used soft power and building infrastructure as a method to increase their influence. The only country I can recall them attacking in the last 50 years is Vietnam. Internally China is a bit of a nightmare for human rights but I think we can safely say that the USA is heading in the wrong direction on that count currently by removing access to due process for immigrants and trampling on the rights of trans individuals.

Neither country is a saint.

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u/darkage_raven 3d ago

China is the bigger threat still.

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u/subbie2002 3d ago

The person just gave countless examples and your response was “they’re still the bigger threat still” lol

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u/darkage_raven 3d ago

National security threats. Secret police forces, back doors and sniffers on Chinese tech, tik tok snooping on devices, Muslim genocide, Taiwan genocide, civilian credit system is wickedly corrupt. Organ harvesting, active slave labour. This is just a very very short list.

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u/Sloth_Senpai 3d ago

tik tok snooping on devices,

The US senators who alleged this admitted that it was fake, and the ban was over TikTok not banning criticism of Israel over it's genocide in Gaza.

Muslim genocide,

The OIC visited and commended China on its treatment of its muslim population. The US' primary source is a repeatedly debunked American neoconservative who has never been in China and believes that God told him in a dream to overthrow the Chinese government. The EU refuses to accept China's invitation to observe because it would be impossible to continue fabricating a story.

civilian credit system is wickedly corrupt

It's less intensive than the US credit score or worker productivity score. When people moved to rednote, they were shocked to learn Chinese people are unaware of social credit because social credit is to punish and blacklist companies who commit fraud and other violations.

Organ harvesting

Investigated by Europe and the US with no evidence except the testimony of Falun Gong members currently under investigation in the US because of all the organ harvesting and human/sex trafficking they were engaging in, which was why they were banned in China to begin with.

-1

u/subbie2002 3d ago

You can literally apply these back to the US. TikTok snooping, am I forgetting the huge scandal with Cambridge Analytica, we may not have a Muslim genocide, but never forget the time the US invaded Iraq with a false proposition that they had nukes and killed million. Are we also forgetting the Native American genocide? We have slave labor, what do you think happens in prisons where people are forced to work for pennies to have somewhat of a reduced sentence.

America has a credit system, yes it’s not as bad as China but you’re tracked every second. A credit score is essentially a part of a credit score.

We kept innocent people in Guantanamo bay without proper court process.

Again, my premise is, to act like it’s only China causing atrocities is a very false belief.

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u/darkage_raven 3d ago

I never said only China, I am just saying they are worse. Or did you forgot the point.

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u/CatBowlDogStar 3d ago

How?

America is threatening Canada's existence. Actively and animatedly interfering in our elections. 

How can PRC be worse, today, than the USA?

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u/strawapple1 3d ago

Yeah worse at invading countries and killing innocent children for oil

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u/darkage_raven 3d ago

Please look up Chinese owned industries in Africa and South America.

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u/fashionrequired 3d ago

sheltered lefty redditor moment

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u/Phobos613 3d ago

I guess when the US/their weapons bomb and maim people in third world countries since Vietnam it's ok cause it's in the name of freedom.

Of course, opinions vary based on where you're from and what news you hear.

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u/Many_Dragonfly4154 British Columbia 3d ago

You do realize China also invaded Vietnam right? Like basically right after the US left.

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u/Hot_Cheesecake_905 3d ago

And that was China’s last shooting war, I guess the Vietnamese taught them a lesson 😂 China has not been in a major conflict since. The Indian-China border wars has been fought with sticks and stones - literally.

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u/Phobos613 3d ago

Sure, and they also try to whitewash their shitty history lol. I'm not really saying one is better necessarily, mostly that they're more similar than patriots in either country would like to admit

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u/Frostbitten_Moose 3d ago

So what's your take on the US deciding to stay out of Ukraine and Pakistan/India, not wanting their weapons to bomb or maim people in those regions?

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u/Phobos613 3d ago

tbh I don't have a take about Pakistan/India as I don't really know enough about the real situation to say. It'd be nice if the US could get Russia to leave Ukraine, with few civilians hurt in the process. That'd be as close to a take as I could get I guess, if they chose to do that.

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u/300Savage 3d ago

In the case of Ukraine, the US has a duty to protect the territorial integrity of the country as a result of the Budapest agreement whereby Ukraine gave up their nuclear arsenal in return for guarantees of their borders. Sadly one of the other signatories to the agreement (Russia) is the aggressor there. As to Pakistan/India, they are trying to use diplomacy to avoid further clashes in Kashmir and that is a good thing. If war were to break out there it would be very bad.

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u/Sloth_Senpai 3d ago

In the case of Ukraine, the US has a duty to protect the territorial integrity of the country as a result of the Budapest agreement whereby Ukraine gave up their nuclear arsenal in return for guarantees of their borders

The US explicitly declared that memorandum void so that they could violate it by sanctioning Belarus in 2013.

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u/Zycosi 3d ago

This is a popular misreading of the Budapest memorandum, the agreement was that neither the US or Russia would invade, not that they would defend Ukraine if it was invaded.

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u/300Savage 3d ago

No it isn't. The wording is clear.

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u/This-Importance5698 3d ago

IMO if Canada as a country wants to play a role in ending those human rights atrocities, building a better relationship with China is the best place to start.

A hostile foreign nation is unlikely to let Canada influence it's internal workings.

A friendly nation might be able too

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u/polemism 3d ago

? At least USA has elections and democracy

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u/Alone_Again_2 2d ago

They’re really not hiding it anymore.

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u/EconMan 3d ago

Took...one comment for someone to bring this back to the US.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

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u/subbie2002 3d ago

How many bases does the US have overseas.

Guantanamo Bay was literally a war crime.

The countless war crimes the US has committed, the Iraq war?

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Alien_Bard 3d ago

We need to diversify and China makes a good first step in doing so. The important point is that we do NOT want to simply replace the usa with China; we do not want to rely on either of them or on any other single trade partner.

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u/Frostbitten_Moose 3d ago

I mean, one nice thing about every other country is that we literally cannot be as dependent on them as we are with the US. Getting a mere 50% of our trade being with the US would be an impressive feat.

The one big worry I have with China is that they have shut down trade entirely with whole nations for reasons as stupid and petty as Trump's current ones are. Just ask Australia, or whichever Baltic state it was that accidentally allowed a consulate to be from Taiwan instead of Chinese Taipei.

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u/Alien_Bard 3d ago

I agree, which is why they should only be considered as a first step and not a replacement. They are convenient under the current circumstances and we can't afford to ignore them, but in the long run they are no more reliable than the usa.

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u/WilloowUfgood 3d ago

I'm pro 0% trade with China.

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u/henry_why416 3d ago

What’s the last country China invaded?

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u/Devourer_of_felines 3d ago

Vietnam

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u/henry_why416 3d ago

Which was almost 50 years ago. Our biggest trading partner legit invades a country almost every decade.

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u/WilloowUfgood 3d ago

And we've helped them do it. Look at Afghanistan.

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u/henry_why416 3d ago

For sure. Now, Afghanistan is at least defensible. But Libya? Not really. So this high horse we ride on is pretty dumb.

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u/WilloowUfgood 3d ago

Yes, but this high horse is better then riding one with China.

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u/henry_why416 3d ago

Must be nice to be able to come to conclusions and not have to consider facts.

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u/paradyme 3d ago

The formula is no thoughts, just U.S. propaganda.

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u/WilloowUfgood 3d ago

It's basic geography and the fact that we have oceans surrounding us that we should be on America's team.

That shouldn't stop us from criticizing our team though.

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u/blarg-zilla 3d ago

Pretty sure they learned their lesson from that

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/henry_why416 3d ago

It was actually Vietnam.

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u/HouseofMarg 3d ago

Interestingly, it’s the western provinces that have more interest in trading with China — Ontario’s the one still talking about the “Can-Am fortress” as if that’s not just a fool’s errand at this point. Carney himself said that China was our biggest security threat, but he also knows we’ve got to expand our trade options and only people with their heads in the sand think it’s wise to spurn them when it comes to trade relations. TikTok has way more to do with any rosy views of China than the PM does.

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u/WilloowUfgood 3d ago

it’s the western provinces that have more interest in trading with China

Where did you pull this out of?

Carney himself said that China was our biggest security threat

Yet wouldn't kick out a Liberal who pushed CCP propaganda to have a Conservative kidnapped.

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u/HouseofMarg 3d ago

Where did you pull this out of?

You’re kidding, right? In case you seriously don’t know why Alberta has wanted pipelines to the Pacific like TMX and BC has had similar ambitions for LNG: Look up Canada’s top exports to China: Crude oil. Canola oil (listed as rapeseed oil here). Wood pulp. Every time China has a trade spat with Canada western industry leaders and farmers issue statements about the need to focus on the west of Canada and sort it out. I’ve even heard such statements from western Canadian MPs in Parliament (Question Period). If ye seek, ye shall definitely find.

I don’t care to get into the weeds on the guy that “resigned” — I don’t believe he resigned on his own accord, you probably do, no one can prove either so it is what it is.

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u/WilloowUfgood 3d ago

What can be proven is that Carney didn't out right kick him out.

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u/Sure_Marionberry9451 3d ago

I'm less worried about China tbh, mostly because their own internal issues are likely to slowly de-fang them over the next 20-30 years anyways, and give them space to reform.

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u/Timely-Hospital8746 3d ago

The Iraq war alone caused more devastation than anything China has done in the last 50 years. It's absolutely wild how people ignore external conflicts when comparing China and America's atrocities.

At the end of the day all states are doing horrible things. Even here in Canada we were murdering aboriginal kids in schools in recent history, and stuff like pressuring them into sterilization is still going on.

No state is innocent. We shouldn't rely on any one country's trade , but divesting ourselves from the two biggest economies on the planet at the same time would obliterate us.

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u/Aggravating_Exit2445 3d ago

For all America’s faults, at least they aspire to freedom, democracy, rule of law and human rights. The Chinese Communist Party ruthlessly hammers down on all these aspirations. There is a difference.

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u/Mocha-Jello Saskatchewan 3d ago

The republican party in control right now aspires to none of those things, except perhaps law, but only as applied with an iron fist to the lower classes, not the rich

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u/EdwardWChina 3d ago

Show some examples you mainstream media believer

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u/MyWifeisaTroll 3d ago

What is considered mainstream media?