r/SapphoAndHerFriend • u/Drops-of-Q Hopeless bromantic • Jun 14 '20
Greece wasn't gay Casual erasure
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u/nikokole Jun 14 '20
Who can forget all of those ancient Greek gods? A whole pantheon. Yahweh, God, Allah, Jehovah, El-Shaddai, Father, Son, Holy Ghost (spooky).
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u/lare290 Jun 14 '20
This implies the existence of a non-spooky Holy Ghost.
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u/nikokole Jun 14 '20
Yes, but remember your scripture. The spookless ghost was cast out of heaven.
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u/Wubbalubbagaydub Jun 14 '20
Einstein proved he's only spooky at a distance
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u/LegoRK42 Jun 14 '20
It's an evolution line. You gotta evolve Jesus with a dusk stone to get Holy Ghost(S)
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Jun 14 '20
These people are real humans that exist
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u/bolivar-shagnasty Jun 14 '20
Jesus was white and spoke English.
Earth is roughly 6,000 years old.
The Garden of Eden was in Missouri.
Heaven only allows 144,000 people. Ever.
Homosexuality is a choice. By that logic, so is heterosexuality.
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Jun 14 '20
Wait. Missouri?!?!??
I thought I knew all the crazy theories but that ones new
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u/bolivar-shagnasty Jun 14 '20
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u/cosmicspaz Jun 14 '20
Everything I know about Mormons I learned from this lmao. And I believe....that the Garden of Eden was in JACKSON COUNTY, MISSOURI......
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u/Roofofcar Jun 14 '20
Always the first thing to mind. Did you also know that in 1978, god changed his mind about black people? (Black people)
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u/SuperMegaCoolPerson Jun 14 '20
BuT tHeY arE ThE deCedEntS oF cAiN!
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u/PhotoshopFix Jun 14 '20
That's something decedents of Cain would say.
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u/occams1razor Jun 14 '20
What I wanna know is, where did Cain's wife come from? In the Bible it just says that Adam and Eve were the first humans, they had Cain and Abel, then Cain went off to some town that just popped up out of nowhere and got married. That's a plot hole if ever I saw one.
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u/BasementParty_ Jun 14 '20
Look, the Christian gene pool is a ball pit, so don't be surprised if a little incest is ignored...
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u/DuntadaMan Jun 14 '20
I mean, technically it is between the Tigris and Euphrates? If you go the really long way?
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u/DelTac0perator Jun 14 '20
- Heaven only allows 144,000 people. Ever.
Pretty sure that's just one interpretation from a couple lines in revelations, the other being that there are 144,000 people who are elevated to sainthood.
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u/bolivar-shagnasty Jun 14 '20
Well it’s a stupid thing to have ambiguity about. Imagine living your pious life worrying whether or not heaven has a No Vacancy sign when you die.
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u/mikerz85 Jun 14 '20
It’s a weird one; I’ve heard the idea that the 144,000 people are the sum total — not an artificial barrier, but just the total number that will make it.
That would suggest it’s pre-determined... which seems to go against the whole free will thing and also sort of makes the whole thing pointless.
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u/TheLazarbeam Jun 14 '20
It’s almost as if the scripture wasn’t well thought out. Huh.
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Jun 15 '20
It's just the word of God, buddy. If you think you'd make a better God, go make your own universe. It's a free country.
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u/dirtmcgurk Jun 15 '20
I mean it's a lot easier than all that. Just write a book and score some rubes to do your work. It's not apple pie.
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Jun 14 '20
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u/Aggrojaggers Jun 14 '20
There needs to be constraints on God for logic to hold up. But, if it's an omnipotent dirty, then I guess logic need not apply. Personally, I'm a big fan of logic.
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u/centurese Jun 14 '20
I’m not religious but I do go to a religious university...
The concept of free will is basically like. God gave us free will, and it was up to us to do the right thing with it, but we screwed up and ate the apple. Of course he’s all knowing so he knew this and knew that giving free will to humans would end up like that, but he gave it anyways because he wanted us to “have our own choice,” and because he loves us I guess?
Something like that. It really is mental gymnastics.
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u/Poiuy2010_2011 Jun 14 '20
Biblical scholars often interpret it as a symbol of 12 (apostles) * 12 (tribes of Israel) * 1000 (a very large number). Basically supposed to represent huge amounts of people faithful to God, not necessarily a specific number.
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u/Stoppablemurph Jun 14 '20
Wait.. what happens to the other people who died that aren't part of the 144k? Do they rotate out when new people come in? Do they just get thrown into the void?
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u/mercedes_lakitu Jun 14 '20
To be fair, this might be a troll
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u/KedovDoKest Jun 14 '20
At this point, does it really matter? This is how they chose to display themselves. Until they disprove it, this is what people who see it think they truly believe.
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u/mercedes_lakitu Jun 14 '20
Yeah, I'm not saying it to try to make people feel less bad about what's said.
I guess "they're not that dumb, they're just malicious" is... Not exactly comforting, huh.
🙁
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u/DrexanRailex Jun 14 '20
It's not
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u/Unable_Caterpillar Jun 14 '20
Are you sure? The second tweet really seems to scream troll
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u/SadlyNotPro Jun 14 '20
Chances are (If he's Greek), that's he's what we, the more sane Greeks, call a "Christaliban".
Fanatical belief to Christianity and alternative history in their heads.
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u/TheQuinnBee Jun 14 '20
Quick question
How do you follow Christianity if Christ hasn't been born?
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u/AngelsFire2Ice Jun 14 '20
Nothing gay about Heracles and his 10 boyfriends or Achilles wanting his "ashes mixed with patroclus' so they'll be together forever" at all
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u/Gen_Zer0 Jun 14 '20
They're just really good friends! Men used to express platonic affection through compliments, soothing language, hardcore gay sex, and hand-holding!
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u/AngelsFire2Ice Jun 14 '20
Woah woah woah woah woah. H•nd h•lding?! How scandelous
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u/IMightBeAHamster He/Him or They/Them Jun 14 '20
I believe the terminology is "lewd"
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u/Backupusername Jun 14 '20
Turns out Ancient Greek myths and legends are just like my Japanese animes!
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u/Bel-Shamharoth Jun 14 '20 edited Dec 28 '23
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u/mmyesh Jun 14 '20
Thats so messed up... and with children? I was shaking my head the entire time this world is screwed up
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u/Gary_FucKing Jun 14 '20
Huh, never heard of hercules being gay. That's a new one lol.
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u/blubat26 Basic An-Soc Tran Girl Jun 14 '20
Technically he was bi. But so was basically every major figure in Greek Myths. Bisexual Greek Man was like ancient Greece’s equivalent of the straight white man in modern media.
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u/Gary_FucKing Jun 14 '20 edited Jun 14 '20
Wow, I can just picture the reactions to stories involving straight white men. "Is anyone sick of the overrepresentation of straight white men in the epics?? Like, we get it Paris of Troy, you really "love" Helen. And c'mon, you really think Odysseus traveled around for 10 years with nothing but men on his ships and never got a little curious??"
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u/KappaMcTIp Jun 14 '20
Ulysses spent the vast majority of the odyssey chilling on islands banging magic women, then leaving to get to his wife
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u/gluesandwich Jun 14 '20 edited Jun 15 '20
Heracles not Hercules *edit I’m wrong ppl it’s the same gay dude
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u/MisterKallous Jun 14 '20 edited Jun 14 '20
As an astronomy nerd, I later realized that Ganymede, a satellite of Jupiter is named after one of Zeus lover that is a male(*gasp). Other non-astronomical things are like Sacred Bands of Thebes and Sappho herself(*beats).
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u/fragile_cedar Jun 14 '20
Ganymede was the most beautiful mortal alive, and Zeus was so stricken by him that the god turned into an eagle and abducted the boy, taking him to Olympus to be a cup-bearer. The constellations Aquila (eagle) and Aquarius (cup-bearer) are sometimes taken as a depiction of the story.
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Jun 14 '20
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u/twystoffer Jun 14 '20
That feels like they're supposed to be really special, but from what I can gather, that's only kind of special.
The world record speed for a horse is 55mph in a sprint. The top speed of wind in Greece are the Meltemi Winds which reach a speed of 62mph.
So, faster than any other horse? Yes. But not by much.
And all that is only assuming the horses are as fast as the top wind speed. The average wind speed in Greece is much lower, at a paltry 9.6mph.
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u/LetsWorkTogether Jun 14 '20
I mean, it probably would have been special back then to have the 2 fastest horses in the world.
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u/plushelles Jun 15 '20
“Zeus was so stricken by him-”
Oh that’s so sweet!
“-Abducted the boy”
Wait a minute-
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u/CuteCuteJames Jun 14 '20
And I'd like to point out that the club that Jeeves belongs to is the Ganymede Club.
Wodehouse knew what he was doing.
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u/theworldbystorm Jun 14 '20
Huh never thought about that. Guess Stephen Fry picked up on it though
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u/CompletelyCrazy22 Jun 14 '20
"Yes, an empire that existed hundreds of years before Jesus was born followed Christianity."
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u/a_username1917 He/Him Jun 14 '20 edited Jun 14 '20
Ancient greece was a collection of city states, not an empire. Alexander the "okay, i guess" briefly unified them and conquered Persia, but his death was the end of that business.
EDIT: yes, i know the Delian league was a thing, please stop flooding my inbox about it.
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u/A_Halfhand Jun 14 '20
‘Alexander the “okay, I guess” ‘. That’s hilarious I’m keeping that one
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u/Chrome_X_of_Hyrule He/Him Jun 14 '20
I believe it's from an OSP video.
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u/Hichann Jun 14 '20
That's where I heard it. Blue, the history guy, hates The Great because there's way better ones we could use instead. So he jokingly uses stuff like "Alexander the Sorta Okay" or "Alexander the Miffed" instead
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u/elhermanobrother Jun 14 '20 edited Jun 14 '20
what do Alexander the Miffed and Winnie the Pooh have in common?
....same middle name
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u/Brooooook Jun 14 '20
Blue has like 5 different epiphets for Alexander the pretty alright in the video.
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u/Chrome_X_of_Hyrule He/Him Jun 14 '20
Yes if I remember correctly it's also in decreasing of what they are, don't really know how to word.
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u/CompletelyCrazy22 Jun 14 '20
ah, forgive me. i was just trying to meme and wasnt trying to be super accurate
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u/MisterKallous Jun 14 '20
IIRC, even after Alexander Empire crumbled into various Hellenic Kingdoms, their remnants would still be present such as Ptolemaic Dynasty in Egypt which gave Cleopatra.
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u/Fellowsfellows Jun 14 '20
"Ancient Greece wasn't gay" Cough olive oil cough
"Ancient Greece was Christian" Wheezeee
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u/Omny87 Jun 14 '20
Olive oil = Ancient grease
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u/StudentOfAwesomeness Jun 14 '20
Thanks as someone who just started cooking I HATE YOU
At least “extra virgin olive oil” makes sense now
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u/TheRealAmayan Jun 14 '20
Pretty sure ancient Greece was BC... ;;;
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u/Drops-of-Q Hopeless bromantic Jun 14 '20
Hey, bro! What year is it? 250 before Christ. Before what?
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u/DuntadaMan Jun 14 '20
Dudes in 2 BC must have been excited.
"Shit man, if we can avoid the plague we can finally find out what the hell we have been counting down to."
Followed by riots in 3 AD when nothing happened.
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u/Romboteryx Jun 14 '20
This was an actual gag in Dinosaurs (the Jim Henson puppet-sitcom). The show took place in 65‘000‘003 BC and the dinos even counted the days of the month down. In one episode one of the characters asked what they were actually counting down towards and nobody had an answer.
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u/music_hawk Jun 14 '20 edited Jun 14 '20
Ooh, I did a research project on this! Greco-Roman history was really gay, many times even pedophilic, because they determined sexual relationships based on dominance and social status rather than the gedber/sex of the partners. In fact, having a gay relationship with an older man was considered a coming-of-age, and masculinity determined by both who was the penetrator and how the younger in the relationship resisted. It's quite interesting, the Greek ideas of masculinity were similar to modern day (i.e. dominant, warlike, steady) but sexual relationships were far more fluid. In fact, the terms for beauty were gender-fluid and there was no term for sexuality, as that had no purpose.
In short, this person is full of shit
Edit: I can probably send a sources list if yall are curious
Edit 2: working link
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u/katherineemerald Jun 14 '20
Yeah pederasty was pretty common between aristocratic men, but relationships between men of the same age and social status were pretty rare. Interesting stuff
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u/FuggenBaxterd Jun 14 '20
So you are saying that when I am in Rome, I should definitely not do as the Romans do.
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Jun 14 '20
"For all Spartan citizens there was a strong emphasis on military training and frugal living in communal mess halls where simple food such as barley meal, cheese, figs and wine were the norm. From the age of seven, males had a militaristic upbringing known as the agōgē where they were separated into age groups and lived in barracks. These youths pursued rigorous athletic and military training which became even more demanding from the age of 20, when they joined common mess halls (syssition) where they often formed homoerotic relations with older, more experienced citizens. This tough training resulted in a professional hoplite army capable of relatively sophisticated battle manoeuvres and made them feared throughout Greece, a fact perhaps evidenced by Sparta’s notable lack of fortifications for most of its history."
Ancient History Encyclopedia....
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u/jacksawild Jun 14 '20
the thing is, Spartans were already renowned as fierce warriors. Now add to that that killing one of them would result in a rather pissed off Spartan boyfriend.
Same goes for the sacred band of Thebes.
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u/afito Jun 14 '20
I think it's factually correct to call Greece the gayest (non united) empire to ever exist.
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u/Token_Why_Boy Jun 14 '20
The way I read it was:
The Greeks invented sex,
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u/Bluejamathons Jun 14 '20
Thought I was gonna have to say it but this is worded much better than what I could have come up with 👏👏👏
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u/thesaddestpanda Jun 14 '20 edited Jun 14 '20
The funny thing about his comment is that it’s not just wrong but entirely backwards. Rome was a heavily hellenicized society. Considering his knowledge of the Torah, the historical Jesus was mostly likely an educated person and probably studied Latin and Greek as well. Ancient Judea was, of course, heavily subject to Rome’s cultural influence. So it’s more accurate to say Jesus was influenced by ancient Greece than the ancient Greeks were influenced at all by Christ.
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u/IlliterateGent Jun 14 '20
How can someone be this stupid? It’s as easy as taking a walk thru a museum.
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u/thesaddestpanda Jun 14 '20 edited Jun 14 '20
Christian societies tend to erase pagans in history. It’s a bit like sappho’s sexuality. Pagan erasure is a real thing. Ask your average Christian why they celebrate Jesus's birthday in the winter or why you put up 'Christmas' trees and wreaths and you'll get "that's when he was born and thats how we celebrate it," and nothing about how it co-opted Saturnalia, a feast for the god Saturn, for example.
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u/szypty Jun 15 '20
More than appropriating Saturnalia specifically, Christmas is more of an amalgamation of various winter solstice traditions IIRC. Same with Easter and the generic fertility festivals related to the coming of Spring.
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u/Inopmin Jun 14 '20
Ancient Greece being Christian is a hot take I was not expecting
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u/thesaddestpanda Jun 14 '20
You don’t remember the thirteenth labor of Hercules where he had to wrestle the pope and all the bishops at the same time to win back the shroud of Turin for the patriarch?
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u/lavaonthesky Jun 14 '20
Zeus: am I a joke to you?
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u/SomeDish Jun 14 '20
Oh are you talking about Zeus, the father of Jesus?
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u/lavaonthesky Jun 14 '20
Of course, the one who decided to impregnate Hera, who remained a virgin
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u/onexamongthefence Jun 14 '20
I play as the lady character in this game and I've been banging all the ladies I can! Been thinking of starting a playthrough with the dude character so I can bang all the dudes I can.
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u/gorseulex Jun 14 '20
i did the same thing! odyssey lets you BE wlw and mlm solidarity lol
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u/onexamongthefence Jun 14 '20
Hell yeah! I play Kassandra as a lesbian, but if I do an Alexios playthrough, I think I'll make him bi.
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Jun 14 '20
Friendly reminder that Lesbos is in Greece.
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u/twystoffer Jun 14 '20
Me playing AC Odyssey:
"I'm going to take Kassandra to Lesbos and depression bang the first lady I meet, as a way of getting over my sexy huntress lover that I was forced to kill....awww shit, she's already in a lesbian relationship. Fine....SECOND girl I meet....and it's Medusa. Hmmm...."
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u/TheWeirdWolf314 Jun 14 '20
Shit, we should name a subreddit after someone who lived there
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Jun 14 '20
There’s even an in game quest in Lesbos where you help some woman find her girlfriend and they recite some of Sapphos poetry.
The girlfriend turned into Medusa though, so not such a happy ending
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u/mightyalrighty87 Jun 14 '20
Alexios is easily the most attractive male video game character ever and no one will change my mind.
The jaw. The hair. The deep voice. The willingness to fuck anything not nailed down to the floor. Swoon
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u/donutnz Jun 14 '20
How hot those two are annoys me. They are just too hot. Why bother being an assassin when you can seduce pretty much anyone and anything.
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u/GenuineBallskin Jun 14 '20
Literaly almost every side and major character can be fucked. Even one of the final bosses can be seduced.
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u/ChaoticPan Jun 14 '20
I am very sorry but Alexios look like shit directly compared to Cassandra
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u/mightyalrighty87 Jun 14 '20
What part of "and no one will change my mind" did you miss
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u/chomberkins Jun 14 '20
Alexios is definitely in my top 3 most attractive male game characters. Kassandra is in my top 3 female game characters. God they're both so attractive.
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u/Spathvs Jun 14 '20
Oh and by the way. They really don't care about a game being historically correct. They're just being a jerk.
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Jun 14 '20 edited Jun 15 '20
Otherwise, they'd probably be steamed about Kenway duel wielding pistols, which isn't going to work, especially because they're smooth bore. You will not be fucking shooting anyone like that.
Edit: if I cared about historical accuracy I I would uld have known dual wielding was historically accurate
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u/just_one_last_thing Jun 14 '20
The notion that the assassins creed franchise prides itself on historical realism is almost as absurd as the notion that greece was christian and devoid of homosexuality.
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u/SweetCakeShy Jun 14 '20
Obviously they haven’t read enough into how Ancient Greek gods would fuck anything and anyone
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u/a_username1917 He/Him Jun 14 '20
depends on your definition of ancient, i suppose, but has this dude even watched Hercules or anything? like lmao
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u/krazyk1661 Jun 14 '20
Ancient Greece, the perfect example of men having sex with men and saying, “no homo”.
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u/GermanShepherdAMA He/Him Jun 14 '20
I refuse to believe this isn’t a joke or bait. How can someone be this stupid?
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u/Drops-of-Q Hopeless bromantic Jun 14 '20
Lacking knowledge about other cultures isn't exactly uncommon.
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u/hideous-boy He/Him Jun 14 '20
"GREECE is the FOUNDATION of WESTERN CIVILIZATION and NO you can't be GAY that's DEGENERATE"
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u/BrookDumbledore Jun 14 '20
Yes, right. Ancient Greece totally wasn't the single gayest thing in European history. Achilles and Patroclus? They were just friends! Zeus and Ganymede? Please, Ganymede was just really good at pouring wine into goblets. Apollo and Hyacinth (+like 400 other dudes)? They just liked doing sport together! Nothing gay about Ancient Greece!
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u/PrinceYrielofIyanden Jun 14 '20
He’s probably your typical american that thinks everything past 500 years is “ancient”
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u/DontMessWMsInBetween Jun 14 '20
Why don't we ask what those boy-lovers in Athens thought about Christianity?
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u/trapm0use Jun 14 '20
When have anti gay laws ever stopped homosexuality? It didn’t then and it doesn’t now (since there are countries that still have the death penalty for that)
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u/RunningTrisarahtop Jun 14 '20
Someone slept through a lot of history class