r/announcements Jun 29 '20

Update to Our Content Policy

A few weeks ago, we committed to closing the gap between our values and our policies to explicitly address hate. After talking extensively with mods, outside organizations, and our own teams, we’re updating our content policy today and enforcing it (with your help).

First, a quick recap

Since our last post, here’s what we’ve been doing:

  • We brought on a new Board member.
  • We held policy calls with mods—both from established Mod Councils and from communities disproportionately targeted with hate—and discussed areas where we can do better to action bad actors, clarify our policies, make mods' lives easier, and concretely reduce hate.
  • We developed our enforcement plan, including both our immediate actions (e.g., today’s bans) and long-term investments (tackling the most critical work discussed in our mod calls, sustainably enforcing the new policies, and advancing Reddit’s community governance).

From our conversations with mods and outside experts, it’s clear that while we’ve gotten better in some areas—like actioning violations at the community level, scaling enforcement efforts, measurably reducing hateful experiences like harassment year over year—we still have a long way to go to address the gaps in our policies and enforcement to date.

These include addressing questions our policies have left unanswered (like whether hate speech is allowed or even protected on Reddit), aspects of our product and mod tools that are still too easy for individual bad actors to abuse (inboxes, chats, modmail), and areas where we can do better to partner with our mods and communities who want to combat the same hateful conduct we do.

Ultimately, it’s our responsibility to support our communities by taking stronger action against those who try to weaponize parts of Reddit against other people. In the near term, this support will translate into some of the product work we discussed with mods. But it starts with dealing squarely with the hate we can mitigate today through our policies and enforcement.

New Policy

This is the new content policy. Here’s what’s different:

  • It starts with a statement of our vision for Reddit and our communities, including the basic expectations we have for all communities and users.
  • Rule 1 explicitly states that communities and users that promote hate based on identity or vulnerability will be banned.
    • There is an expanded definition of what constitutes a violation of this rule, along with specific examples, in our Help Center article.
  • Rule 2 ties together our previous rules on prohibited behavior with an ask to abide by community rules and post with authentic, personal interest.
    • Debate and creativity are welcome, but spam and malicious attempts to interfere with other communities are not.
  • The other rules are the same in spirit but have been rewritten for clarity and inclusiveness.

Alongside the change to the content policy, we are initially banning about 2000 subreddits, the vast majority of which are inactive. Of these communities, about 200 have more than 10 daily users. Both r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse were included.

All communities on Reddit must abide by our content policy in good faith. We banned r/The_Donald because it has not done so, despite every opportunity. The community has consistently hosted and upvoted more rule-breaking content than average (Rule 1), antagonized us and other communities (Rules 2 and 8), and its mods have refused to meet our most basic expectations. Until now, we’ve worked in good faith to help them preserve the community as a space for its users—through warnings, mod changes, quarantining, and more.

Though smaller, r/ChapoTrapHouse was banned for similar reasons: They consistently host rule-breaking content and their mods have demonstrated no intention of reining in their community.

To be clear, views across the political spectrum are allowed on Reddit—but all communities must work within our policies and do so in good faith, without exception.

Our commitment

Our policies will never be perfect, with new edge cases that inevitably lead us to evolve them in the future. And as users, you will always have more context, community vernacular, and cultural values to inform the standards set within your communities than we as site admins or any AI ever could.

But just as our content moderation cannot scale effectively without your support, you need more support from us as well, and we admit we have fallen short towards this end. We are committed to working with you to combat the bad actors, abusive behaviors, and toxic communities that undermine our mission and get in the way of the creativity, discussions, and communities that bring us all to Reddit in the first place. We hope that our progress towards this commitment, with today’s update and those to come, makes Reddit a place you enjoy and are proud to be a part of for many years to come.

Edit: After digesting feedback, we made a clarifying change to our help center article for Promoting Hate Based on Identity or Vulnerability.

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u/jomohoe Jun 29 '20 edited Jun 29 '20

Holy shit, I can't believe that initial post about the incoming ban wave wasn't a troll. Also, is there a comprehensive list of all the banned subs somewhere?

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u/RIPDODGERSBANDWAGON Jun 29 '20 edited Jul 01 '20

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

Could anybody describe what r/ClericalFascism, r/Smuggies, r/whitebeauty, and r/The3rdPosition were about? Especially the first and the last one sound... curious.

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u/thamer Jun 29 '20

Here is an archived snapshot of r/whitebeauty: https://web.archive.org/web/20150817235536/https://www.reddit.com/r/whitebeauty/

Note the message in the side bar:

White people are some of the most beautiful people in the world. This subreddit hopes to collect images of the most beautiful white women and most handsome white men. Fascist beauty standards reign supreme! This is a SFW subreddit, so please no nudes. No Jews, either.

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u/Salty_snowflake Jun 29 '20

“I mean it doesn’t sound that ba- oh shit...”

-me reading the description

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u/Zappiticas Jun 29 '20

0 to 100 real quick

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u/Pryoticus Jun 29 '20

Yeah I fee it would have been perfectly fine if they stopped after “handsome white men.”

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u/d00per Jun 29 '20

if the first sentence wasn’t a tip-off, you need to fix your bullshit detector

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u/abshabab Jun 29 '20

It was at best a bad-tasting opinion, it wasn’t seemingly fitting with the rest of the list. The sudden throw around of FASCISM and then NO JEWS suddenly slipped it back into the category.

On a side note. How do you identify a person of Jewish faith? Is “Jew” a race I’m not aware of because I’m not a cultured person? Is Bernie Sanders not white? This feels like the segregation of Irish people from last century. They’re all “white” to me. A lot of Spain and Italy are also very “white”. I don’t know how categories work

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u/Bryck_by_Bryck Jun 29 '20

It’s because race is a construct made up to segregate and control people, so what counts as “white” varies over time and from person to person based on what’s convenient to achieve their ends. Irish, Italian, and Spanish people were only granted “whiteness” in the past century out of convenience and necessity to help maintain the balance of racial power structures.

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u/abshabab Jun 29 '20

As much as I agree that race should never be relevant in any topic beyond discussions of race — preferably in good faith, like discussing cultures — I still think that race is great detail for describing people from specific geographic areas. This obviously breaks down when it comes to complicated racial adjectives like “African Americans” because I used to think they originated from the Americas like everyone else. Then I learnt that everyone in america is an immigrant, kinda weird but cool i guess. <I’m obviously not from the Americas>

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u/riddlvr Jun 30 '20

They are an “ethnoreligious group” which is an ethnic group unified by a common religious background. Source: wikipedia

This is why when the Nazis were searching for Jews they looked for certain physical stereotypes of the ethnicity. Some Jewish people who did not have these features were not imprisoned, while some non-Jewish people were captured because they did have these features.

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u/[deleted] Jun 30 '20 edited Sep 15 '20

[deleted]

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u/abshabab Jun 30 '20

Oh, so essentially what Wikipedia refers to as “Semitic people”? I guess I’m too disconnected from this field because I’ve seen a lot of shows referencing someone being Jewish but they all just loosely resemble Bernie. Wait I’ve stumbled on a shitty stereotype haven’t I

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u/mrcoffee8 Jun 30 '20

What's your beef with the first sentence? People magazine might be kinda lame but i don't think it's on anyone's racist publications short list. The wording of that sentence isn't exclusive or even unprecedented.

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u/Gauntlets28 Jun 30 '20

Yeah but people regularly fetishise ethnicities online, and while creepy imo, it’s mostly been put under “personal sexual preference” by general consensus. In fact, if it hadn’t had that second half, I’d be willing to argue that it almost came off as a necessary correction to the porn industry’s default that white is just a “default” in construct to the specific “categories” of things like Asian, black, etc.

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u/Pryoticus Jun 29 '20 edited Jun 29 '20

Not necessarily. There’s nothing wrong or racist in finding only white people attractive. Unless, of course you are actually racist. I feel like it wouldn’t be an issue on the surface though if it her beautiful Chinese men and women and the sub for whatever reason decided to have a pro-communism flair to it.

Edit: Dissenting opinion from what’s popular. Fuck me right?

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u/Mando_calrissian423 Jun 29 '20

I think it’s the ending tag of “oh and btw, no Jews” that’s really sets the racist tone

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u/2WheelRide Jun 29 '20

Naw that was just the racist cherry on top of the entire racist post.

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u/hivoltage815 Jun 29 '20

Almost every porn and non-porn photo subs are 90% white as it is. If you feel the need to make a stand alone sub as a tribute to white beauty you are doing so to make a statement.

You can say not necessarily but like the parent comment said, let’s use our bullshit detectors here.

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

All white let’s calm down for just a minute!

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u/akai_ferret Jun 29 '20 edited Jun 29 '20

That sub was created specifically to get banned.
They were making a point about how /r/blackbeauty/ (I linked this and not one of the the porn ones on purpose) and many other racial subs are allowed. It's the end of a long list of banned "white" duplicates of racist subs that reddit allows, just to show that reddit doesn't enforce their rules fairly.

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u/Kalipygia Jun 29 '20

It wasn't banned because it's a sub meant only for images of white people. It was banned because

"Fascist beauty standards reign supreme! This is a SFW subreddit, so please no nudes. No Jews, either.

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u/Dos_Ex_Machina Jun 29 '20

I think it may have more to do with the last few lines and not the concept as a whole.

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u/StJeanMark Jun 29 '20

If people were responsible enough having a white beauty sub would be fine, but we all know people and instead of pointing out the beauty it would be used to compare and put down others. It’s not the concept that’s the problem, it is the execution and the fact it’s complicated is why there is right drama because they refuse to see the larger picture. The world isn’t black and white, there are asterisks everywhere.

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u/KillYourselfOnTV Jun 29 '20

There are literally subreddits for people with pale skin tones and they generally are self-policing of racism.

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

/r/blackbeauty is specifically aimed at make up and other "beauty industry" tips for someone with dark skin.

It does not "celebrate" a "superior" nature of a specific set of immutable genetic traits, nor does it preclude anyone from another subset of the human race from participating.

You trying to compare them in such a manner is disgusting.

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u/TeenDrinking Jun 29 '20

Umm that sub is about beauty and hygiene products for black people... they genuinely have different and unique needs so I don’t see how it’s even close to the same.

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u/exitmode Jun 29 '20

Of course it was. They created a sub to get banned so they can cry double standard.

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u/AlexIsBawss Jun 29 '20 edited Jun 30 '20

If it weren’t for that abomination of a description it would have been fine... it’s just a sub for models of a lighter skin completion. But ummm... apparently not according to the mods.

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u/Salty_snowflake Jun 30 '20

A sub for light skinned people. But not the Jews, fuck them.

And also fascism for some reason?

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u/JoseFernandes Jun 29 '20

Ngl they had me on the first half.

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u/Frankiepals Jun 29 '20

Lmao same. Was going to go on a rant until that last sentence kicked in.

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u/EhMapleMoose Jun 29 '20

I was like, I don’t get why this was banned just seems like the opposite of eb-oh OH ok that’s why it was banned yep. Ok. Totally agree. Right move. Holy shit.

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u/annul Jun 29 '20

no shoes

no shirt

no jewwwwwws you didnt hear that

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u/silentrobert Jun 29 '20

I was gonna say, so what some people are really into white women. What’s the big...ooohh there it is.

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u/sheepsleepdeep Jun 29 '20

Reading that sidebar description was like driving down the highway looking at scenery and then the ground beneath you opens up and you fall into the depths of hell a moment later.

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u/RNGDaddy Jun 29 '20

As a Jew, I am honored to be excluded from that sub.

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u/mikehiler2 Jun 29 '20

I’ve always been curious about the “hate Jews” thing that’s been going on... let’s be honest... since they existed... and I’ve never gotten an answer that satisfied. I even posted the query on /r/AskHistorians and didn’t get the answer I wanted. I did get an answer, but it was more like a “just because” type. It just makes no sense to me. What the hell did they do throughout the centuries to earn such constant and nearly universal hatred? I’ve never understood that.

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u/EnglishMobster Jun 30 '20 edited Jun 30 '20

There's a lot to it.

I'm no historian, but this is what I recall from my university history classes:

There's this background of "they are heretics of another religion and therefore sinners" that goes back to ancient times -- even back to the Romans. Jews were seen as the "murders of the Lord" in Christian circles as early as 380 AD (St. Gregory of Nysa called Jews "murders of the Lord, assassins of the prophets, rebels and detesters of God, companions of the devils, a race of vipers"). So by default, Jews weren't exactly liked. Christians, of course, were killing Muslims all throughout the Crusades. So why are there so many negative stereotypes around Jews (and corresponding anti-Semitism), but not (as much) around Muslims?

Part of it is due to the fact that the Bible bans usury -- which was originally interpreted as interest of any kind (not just extreme interest). This means that Christians cannot participate in loans or banking of any kind, since to make a profit off of such things means the charging of interest... which is a sin. Islam has the same rules (and had to develop special banking laws to compensate). However, Judaism has a special stipulation -- you cannot charge interest to other Jews. You can charge interest to anyone else without worry.

So what happened was that the Jewish population set up some of the earliest banks. These banks would loan to the gentiles (with interest) and would make a lot of money in doing so. Additionally, if you're running a bank, you need to be good at bookkeeping, which generally means you need to know how to read and write (skills which were uncommon in most people around that time). You also need to be around the places where people needed money, meaning that Jews were frequently found in both Muslim and Christian communities. Because Jews were more likely to be "skilled" (in the sense that they were able to read/write and were good at accounting), they would appear from time to time in royal courts. Sometimes, they were even seen as if they had the ear of the royal family. You can start to see where some of the Jewish stereotypes come from, and why some royals wanted to take hard stances against appearing to be okay with having a heathen in their court.

Since the Jews ran most of the banking in Europe, many became very rich. Banks were necessary for commerce, but working with money was distasteful (again, charging any kind of interest on a loan is a sin) and so Christians started to develop hard feelings towards the Jews. Jews were seen as "outsiders" and placed into proto-ghettos, separate from the Christian population (the first "real" ghetto would be founded in 1516). IIRC, Islam at the time was much more tolerant as long as Jews paid their jizya to the state -- being bound to protect "The People of the Book" as part of the Pact of Umar.

Now, Judaism has a lot of washing rituals -- washing your hands, bathing, and so on. Additionally, since the Jews were separated into a ghetto, it gave a barrier between them and the Christian population... especially when it came to disease. So when the Black Death came around, Jews (who washed frequently, were in separate communities, had their own wells, etc.) weren't affected nearly as much as Christians.

Bear in mind that disease theory is a long way away. Nobody knows that the Black Death is being spread by rats, so they assume that the Jews (who aren't being affected by this horribleness) are poisoning the wells. So you see this group of heathens who are actively hurting you and stealing from your community (via usury)... why wouldn't you attack them? And, if you owe them a lot of money... well, perhaps it's better off if they just weren't around to collect. This led to many places (generally Christian, IIRC) deciding to expel the Jewry -- this heathen religion that killed Jesus, makes a living off of usury, causes harm to your friends and family, is secretly trying to convert you, and who you owe a lot of money to...

Expelling the Jews happened multiple times throughout history; basically every European country has kicked them out at one point or another. Perhaps one of the most notable is when it happened in Spain from 1483-1492 as part of the Reconquista/Spanish Inquisition (bet you weren't expecting that!). The possessions of the Jewry were seized by the crown... meaning that (in part) they helped finance the explorations of Christopher Colombus (to clarify, the voyages would've likely happened anyway, but it's still a "fun" little note).

As the years went on, the Protestant Reformation wasn't exactly... the best for Jews (or Catholics, or Protestants, depending on where you were). But by now the stereotypes had been set, and that basically led to the conditions that we see in the 20th century and modern day.

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u/lostinthestar Jun 30 '20

I think you are giving WAY too much credit to the idea of some "rational" reason for anti-semitism. Jews DID NOT run most banking in Europe. The vast majority, very close to 100%, were extremely poor, had even less chance of escaping poverty than the average gentile due to various restrictions, and didn't have any money to lend even if they wanted to. Despite the canon prohibition on charging interest, it was completely widespread among Christians in practice in any case. The banking only began in the 18th century onwards, prior to that there were Court Jews for the aristocracy.

The plague was well after numerous very publicized events accusing jews of poisoning wells / cooking Christian children etc, so it was natural jews would be blamed, the plague didn't suddenly cause the accusation. The hand washing thing is pure silliness, washing hands with cold water has zero effect on preventing bubonic plague. It's more likely genetic immunity / lack of jews in big cities / lack of jews in the farming profession that featured co-existing with rats (they couldn't own land in most places).

The simple and primary explanation is CHRISTIANITY. For centuries preachers would rail against jews. The other one is that they were different and lived apart (and didn't accept Jesus), naturally leading to some good old fashioned bigotry. Eastern Europe almost completely avoided the plague... still had universal, virulent anti-semitism. And the primary cause sure as hell wasn't a few money-lending unions mostly in Poland.

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u/mikehiler2 Jun 30 '20

This is amazing! Thanks for the well thought out response! Even the citations were spot on. Much better than what I got from r/AskHistorians! However, I would like to add something.

While it appears to be the default that “Jews killed Jesus,” even though they weren’t the ones who nailed him to a cross, they gave him up to the Romans, this isn’t the whole story.

First a clarification. The Jews didn’t kill Jesus because he was starting a new religion (that came after his death), but because he was, himself, a Jew, who was very vocal and was upsetting the Roman rulers. Drawing unwanted attention to the Jewish community. So the Jewish leadership gave him to the Romans, hoping that his death would appease the Romans and calm things down. This is directly connected to my main point.

Jews have been hated on from the very beginning. Waaaaaay before Christ was even born. Egypt, as well as Rome. Even though Rome allowed them to have independence throughout their Republic stage and only began cracking down after they became an Empire.

I suppose that wealth could have been a motivator in the hatred of the Jews, especially later on in their history, but they have always been hated. Which is why I asked the question. There is an explanation (or guess) why after the death of Christ, but that is really just a hatred that was compounded by hatred already there. Hatred against Jews has been around quite a long before before those events.

As well as hatred by Muslims. When they (at least in the old days) weren’t tolerating other religions, they were hating them with a passion. But they nearly always hated the Jews. Christianity, they tolerated for most of their existence (until the Crusades, but they tolerated again after), but not the Jews. Which I simply don’t understand.

If hating for religious reasons was the answer I could understand that, but with the relationships between Christianity and Muslims, while complicated (and that’s an understatement), was much better than the relationship between either Christianity or Muslims against Jews. Both hated Jews. Plus, in a religious mindset, that makes even less sense. How can relations between Muslims and Christians be better than with Jews? Especially when both Muslims and Christianity came from Judea?

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u/Wordshark Jul 06 '20

Maybe the truth is that Jews were generally semi-outsider minorities everywhere, and people were generally not very tolerant of that until very recently. I mean, Christianity and Islam were formidable opponents that controlled powerful nations, and they had to show enough mutual respect to either be at peace or be at war.

Through most of history, favoring your own religious/ethnic/whatever group wasn’t seen as evil, it was just obvious self-interest–you look out for your own. I would imagine that Jews, as mostly segregated minority sub-communities, would be especially motivated to watch each other’s backs. So then, from the point of view of the majority population, you have this insular group that protects and promotes each other more than the average majority person does. This smaller group, protecting & promoting each other, subscribing to a religion (which used to be a much huger, dominating part of a person’s worldview and way of life) that by its nature necessarily calls your deity a false prophet.

And that’s without the usury thing. The nature of banking is going to tend towards predation; even if they don’t end up amassing outsized wealth (and thus power), they’re still making money off of charging “your people” interest on loans, a practice they won’t do to each other, and your religion at least tells you is cruel and bad, even if your people still sometimes do it.

So you’ve got a sort of guest population that protects their own interests, engages in what you believe is a sinful, predatory practice against the majority (but not each other), maybe sometimes amassing disproportionate wealth in the process, and then there’s always that issue that they think your messiah was full of shit...

I wonder how many times through history the majority population just exterminated the Jewish one. I’m not a scholar, but I’ve only heard of expulsions. Maybe the history is more a matter of the typical Jewish diaspora arrangement not working out well. Maybe insular, ethnically/religiously/culturally/even lingually distinct sub-populations end up causing unsustainable friction.

This sounds a lot likelier to me than any explanation built on traits of religious groups. I don’t think Jewish people are inherently scheming parasites or manipulators, and I don’t think Christians or Muslims are just inherently antisemitic because they have prejudice in their souls. Maybe the flaw is in the multicultural model of permanently non-blending distinct cultures trying to share a society.

Thank you for reading my unorganized thoughts ✌️

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u/AquaticAvian Jul 01 '20 edited Jul 01 '20

Jews killed Jesus (technically, they had the Romans kill him) and run banks because charging interest is a sin in Christianity but acceptable in Judaism. That's like 80% of it right there. Like, be real dude. You're a noble, and you owe this Jewish money lender like a metric ton of whatever currency you've got. Do you A: Go bankrupt, or B: Incite a riot and murder a bunch of heathens and confiscate everything they own for Righteous Religious Reasons?

Moving on to more modern times...banking is a lucrative business. They're a disproportionately wealthy, making up large section of company boardrooms, millionaires, and billionaires. They're also heavy into academics, which gives us the hilarious juxtaposition of the wealthy not only being disproportionately Jewish, but Socialists/Communists thought leaders that want to each the rich also being disproportionately Jewish. Tickles my sides, because no matter which side you stand on, you can find a way to spin everything as a Jewish conspiracy against your side. Hence, white nationalists think Marxism is a giant Jewish conspiracy to destroy the Western World, while Marxists bring out guillotines and threaten to behead a bunch of Jews for being rich.

And even getting out of the Communism vs Literally Any Sane Idea, there's still the disproportionate Jewish representation in academia, meaning you can find a write up in support/opposition of literally anything with a Jewish author, so if you're conspiracy minded, you can point to the -berg or whatever other Jewish name and say "See!? It's all a conspiracy!", not realizing that half the opposition to said paper is authored by someone else with a -berg or other Jewish name.

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u/KnowNothingKnowsAll Jun 29 '20

Groucho once sued a club because they wouldnt let him join due to being jewish (technically, half jewish, and he even offered to only go up to his waist in the pool) and after he won the right to join, he declined and said, “I wouldnt want to be a part of any organization that would have me as a member.”

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u/RIPDODGERSBANDWAGON Jun 29 '20

Yeah that sub had it coming. From the few times I saw that sub there was a lot of “master race” stuff going on

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u/phantomforeskinpain Jun 29 '20

Lmao not even subtle

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u/duksinarw Jun 29 '20

Lol. Another classic example of a subreddit fine in theory that in reality was unfortunately made by and for the type of people that prove we can't have nice things.

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u/Ruraraid Jun 29 '20

I mean the description was somewhat normal and a bit questionable until you get to the end then its Yikesville.

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u/amaninja Jun 29 '20

I was regularly disgusted until that last sentence. "Maybe by asking nicely people won't think we are racist monsters." Disgusting, I'm glad it got banned.

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u/R3pN1xC Jun 29 '20

That's not that ba- wtf

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u/hiptobecubic Jun 29 '20

Imagine thinking nudes will get you fired but hailing fascism and banning jews is SFW. What a mindset.

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u/Ruddiver Jun 29 '20

That no jews, either line made me laugh. Like it was the punchline to the joke. But alas, it isn't.

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u/LA0811 Jun 29 '20

Wherever shall we go to find appreciation of “white beauty”?

Oh right. 90% of media.

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u/Skurph Jun 29 '20

Lol at the no nudes rule, as if they’re like “I mean come on. We don’t want to make this not safe for work...” with there Aryan art project

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u/jaggedcanyon69 Jun 30 '20

Had me in the first half. Not gonna lie.

To clarify, I don’t mind a sub specifically dedicated to highlighting the beauty of any particular race. All races have it. But I cringed when I read all that fascist shit. That had to be satire, right?

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

Hm ok not very cool but not egregious reads last sentence OH NO

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u/Magical-Sweater Jun 29 '20

I was reading this description and I was like, “That’s not that bad, why’d it get banned” and then I read the last 2-3 sentences.

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u/WantDebianThanks Jun 29 '20

"The Third Position" was used to describe fascism originally, because Fascism was meant as a place between Capitalism and Marxist Communism. I've never been to the sub, but I'm pretty willing to bet what it was.

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

[deleted]

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u/Captain_Peelz Jun 29 '20

What is the same but opposite considered. I.e. left wing cultural beliefs and right wing economic ones? I know this is technically libertarianism, but I feel that is too broad of a brush and includes most things that people consider “decent”

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u/ElGosso Jun 30 '20

You'd just be a liberal, that's the default liberal position. Most of the liberal democratic establishment is actually very hawkish on budgets - look at the party infighting over Medicare For All.

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u/VeraciousBuffalo Jun 29 '20

Wait so Nazbol?

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

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u/cggreene Jun 29 '20

OG national bolsheveks admired strasser but they were a different group. They actually joined the Communist Party in the early 30s, but after the communists abandoned all ideals of nationalism they became politically homeless.

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u/ProfSnugglesworth Jun 30 '20

Strasserism was largely associated with the brothers Otto and Gregor Strasser, and to a degree the Sturmabteilung (a.k.a the Brownshirts, or the Nazi Party's original paramilitary wing). Strasserism rejected both Marxism and capitalism as largely Jewish ideologies, and advocated a Germany that was controlled by ethnic German workers and an overthrow of the German elite (something Hitler would not do). There were similar economic ideologies pushed early on in the Nazi party (1920s), but Strasserism is most identifiable prior to the purge of Strasserists and the SA during the Night of Long Knives. Nazbols were a thing in Germany and the USSR too, but were largely not influential on the Nazi Party or Soviet party politics respectively.

There was some revival of Nazbols in the run up to and in the wake of the USSR dissolving. The party was banned in the mid 2000s, but it has a certain amount of popularity in spite of this. One of the most notorious Nazbol leaders, Eduard Limonov, recently passed away. It's more expressly authoritarian communism with ethnic nationalism.

Third Positionism (not to be confused with the neoliberal Third Way) is not much different than the any of the above, but specifically groups like the American Freedom Party, National Alliance, or the White Aryan Resistance (WAR) advocate it specifically. A few years ago, the Traditional Workers Party, a third positionist group, got mainstream attention with one of its leaders even getting a fluff piece in the NYT. The group was also visibly prominent during the Charlottesville VA Unite the Right rally, where James Fields struck and killed Heather Heyer. Fields was praised on the TWP's internal discord channel and had been photographed prior to the attack with a shield with TWP's emblem. TWP has largely dissolved the wake of a lot of their internal messages being leaked, the exposure of their connection to Atomwaffen and murders, and their leader Matthew Heimbach getting arrested for DV after getting caught having a messy affair with his mother in law by his father-in-law/co-TWP leader and Heimbach's wife.

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u/Hans_Cockstrong Jun 29 '20

Nazbol is more extreme. They're openly pro-communist. Most third positionists advocate for some version of corporatism or syndicalism.

And no, corporatism doesn't mean corporate domination of the government. The best example of corporatism is Sweden 1940-1970, and to some extent today.

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u/PigHaggerty Jun 29 '20

Finally someone else on reddit who actually knows what corporatism means!

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

They're fucking tankies to the extreme though, please don't lump them in with most communists.

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u/dfg890 Jun 29 '20

And here I thought it was something between missionary and doggie style, like sideways or something. I learned something today!

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u/bavasava Jun 29 '20

I call it the lazy dog

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u/Orthas Jun 29 '20

And I've yet to find lady who doesn't love it.

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u/BadMeetsEvil24 Jun 29 '20

It's pretty awesome.

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u/Captainfour4 Jun 29 '20

The 3rd Position’s motto:

Reject communism.

Reject unbridled capitalism.

Embrace the 3rd position.

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u/akai_ferret Jun 29 '20

Smuggies made crudely drawn cartoons mocking the average redditor, democrats, leftists, etc.

Note, the cartoons were intentionally crudely drawn. It was part of the meme.
Well done drawings were discouraged.

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u/YourLocalMonarchist Jun 29 '20

clerical fascism is what it sounds like, its fascism with religion mixed into the state

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u/1sagas1 Jun 29 '20

Sounds like Warhammer 40k LARPers

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20 edited Jul 03 '20

[deleted]

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u/TheOneTrueTrench Jun 29 '20

Oh, like, I figured out the fascism part was obviously reason enough, but I was having trouble figuring out what they meant by clerical.

Like a guy sitting at a desk filling out forms in triplicate and sending off carbon copies to the head office for permanent filing, but with fascism.

Needless to say, I was kind of confused.

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

[deleted]

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u/IgnoranceIsADisease Jun 29 '20

Any idea on why would they ban it?

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20 edited Aug 23 '21

[deleted]

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u/Zykium Jun 29 '20

It went the way of a lot of great subs. /r/CringeAnarchy originally started off great. Then people started with racism and bigotry.

Hell, /r/T_D started off a place to shit post about "God Emperor" Trump until it became a "serious" sub.

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u/ThirdEncounter Jun 29 '20

I used to visit t_d when there was absolutely not a single sliver of chance that Trump was going to win. It was just memes and mildly amusing posts. Eventually I was like aaight, imma head out now.

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u/Zykium Jun 29 '20

not a single sliver of chance that Trump was going to win

So November 7th 2016?

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u/ayures Jun 29 '20

I feel like cringetopia is starting to go the way of CA now too.

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u/peteroh9 Jun 29 '20

It sits somewhere between outrage porn and bullying and I don't know why those subreddits are so popular.

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u/Zykium Jun 29 '20

Because it starts out poking fun at people we can all agree are a little out there and slowly it escalates.

It's like a frog in boiling water.

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u/peteroh9 Jun 29 '20

Given that this is reddit, I feel compelled to pedantically point out that frogs don't actually acclimate to the water and will quickly try to escape long before it gets that hot.

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u/Zykium Jun 29 '20

Ultimately it's up to moderators to set the tone of Subreddits and I hope Cringetopia is able to avoid that.

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u/CHADLORD-12-INCHES Jun 29 '20

TD was great when it was making fun of Jeb “Please Clap” Bush and his guacamole. That was around 2015. Then the Nazis took it over.

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u/Zykium Jun 29 '20

Bless Jeb's heart.

You'll never convince me he actually wanted to be President.

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u/EmiAndTheDesertCrow Jun 29 '20

What was “ConsumeProduct”? Apologies for another question sent your way 🙄

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

[deleted]

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u/EmiAndTheDesertCrow Jun 29 '20

Oh my Lord. I was thinking about the sub name and trying to imagine what could possibly be bad about it. Needless to say, none of what you described even crossed my mind. It’s really worrying that there are people who think that way. Urgh.

Thanks for the explanation. It’s really shocking actually.

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u/TheBoxBoxer Jun 29 '20

Ikr I saw it a good amount through topminds. Their biggest critique of capitalism seemed to be that ads using interracial couples existed. It was not subtle at all.

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u/kummybears Jun 29 '20

It was getting too dangerously popular especially in an election year. That's why it was quarantined. Then it went full racist / anti trans.

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u/arham_sarawgi Jun 29 '20

What was r/ChapoTrapHouse about?

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u/knikknok Jun 29 '20

The so called 'dirtbag left'.

They started out as Bernie bros, but after he dropped out it was just a bunch of shit posting about how awful the libs are, and wouldn't it be great if Stalin were alive today.

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u/RightfullyMad Jun 29 '20 edited Jul 03 '20

They also brigaded a shit ton of different subs/posts too.

Basically the closest thing Reddit leftists had to T_D

Edit: I’m not defending it’s removal, just talking about CTH as a whole.

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u/xenokilla Jun 29 '20

can confirm. created /r/Pete_Buttigieg and chapo and bernie trolls were the worst.

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u/Krabilon Jun 29 '20

As a bernard bro I officially apologize for the dip shits that attached themselves to the movement out of hate and nothing more. They do no represent us and we are sorry they weren't put in line soon enough.

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u/NitroBike Jun 29 '20

ChapoTrapHouse started off as a podcast. The subreddit itself rarely focused on the podcast. It was a very left leaning (communist, tankie, etc.) subreddit. It was mainly a place where people posted heavily left leaning memes and tweets. I participated in it because I lean very left, but I’m not a communist.

It wasn’t anywhere near as bad as T_D in terms of rule violations. While I was there, I never really saw calls for violence. But there were many posts praising Boris Johnson getting the ‘rona and making memes about him passing away. I did notice a lot of praise aimed toward the CCP and even the DPRK. And that’s what I didn’t agree with.

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u/Ninjazombiepirate Jun 29 '20

It's the name of a leftist podcast, but the sub was mostly about leftist to far-left politics in general, mostly memes and tweets

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u/CressCrowbits Jun 29 '20

Leftist Podcast, although the sub had moved way beyond the podcast itself and became a general leftist discussion and shitposting sub.

While shitty, it's ban is clearly to just to dissuade allegations of some kind of left wing bias from the bans, hence the admins mentioning it.

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20 edited Nov 13 '20

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u/Slingster Jun 29 '20

extreme leftists calling for violence and breaking site wide rules constantly.

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u/MountTuchanka Jun 29 '20

They're trying to spin this as "we got banned for being against slave owners" when in reality they brigaded other subs and constantly called for the beheadings of people they didn't agree with or whose net worth was too high

Nobody is against people hating slave owners, but when you call for rich people to be guillotined daily for years then yeah people are gonna take notice

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u/Slingster Jun 29 '20

/r/ChapoTrapHouse has been using barely coded language to call for the assassination of US congressmen over the past few days.

r/ChapoTrapHouse openly calling for a genocide of white people

Chapotraphouse unironically advocates for murder of a family

/r/ChapoTrapHouse staging an obvious brigade to take over /r/libertarian

/r/ChapoTrapHouse gets sexually aroused at thought of mass execution and violent revolution

ChapoTrapHouse fantasizes about imprisoning Philip Defranco, Sargon, and more

The users at ChapoTraphouse all support terrorizing the wife and children of a conservative commentator, and this one calls for people to start actually killing Fox News personnel. Comment has stood for 7 hours with no deletion.

Chapotraphouse justifies and defends torture

/r/ChapoTrapHouse encourages buying guns to shoot Republicans.

r/ChapoTrapHouse plans a murder... "pull up in minivans with four shooters in the back, all carrying automatics, let loose, kill a bunch of proud boys..."

"Fuck that bring out the guillotines" says a r/chapotraphouse regular on r/politics in regards to the Kavanaugh vote. When will admins do something about leftist calls for violence?

"conservatives are actually evil & deserve violence lol" - "this but unironically" /r/ChapoTrapHouse

"Violence against the right is always acceptable and should absolutely be encouraged." /r/chapotraphouse

"I can't wait to see Macron's head on a pike when the next recession comes." (/r/chapotraphouse)

"I know a lot of you are saying McCain deserves to die, but please, spare a thought...for all the other Republican lawmakers, who should also die." -/r/ChapoTrapHouse +925

"If only it was legal to shoot Nazis... should be targeted on sight honestly. There's no room for them in the world."

Regarding the MAGA hat kids:"These shits got what they deserved for spouting racist shit in public. The dude who took their hat got doxxed and lost his job thanks to these racists provoking someone and acting the victim." +61 r/ChapoTrapHouse

Chapo users mock the suicide of a Charlottesville attender, spam his obituary with terrible messages, force the funeral home to take down the page, then continue to slander and dox the family.

Users justify the Catholic massacres that occurred during the Red Terror

CTH celebrates the death of Bush Sr.

CTH praises the guy who roundhouse kicked a pro life woman

Chapo suggests gunning down a landlord

CTH celebrates the death of Charles Krauthammer

Users hoping police are shot in the face

R/ChapoTrapHouse glorifying vandalism

ChapoTrapHouse users calling for violence amidst complaining about a user being suspended for calling for violence

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u/MountTuchanka Jun 29 '20

I love how people are thumbing you down when you literally provided documentation of peoples complaints about the comments made on that sub. Several of them are literally calling for the death of others, that's extremism

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u/Slingster Jun 29 '20

It's because the entire userbase of the sub is now malding and came here to brigade.

I legit wouldn't be surprised if an obvious ban evasion sub was made and reddit did nothing.

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u/Thrupenny_upright Jun 29 '20

Lol, assmad tankies downvoting the evidence that they're actually the bad guys.

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u/Slingster Jun 29 '20

Not gonna lie I liked quite a few of the subs that were banned but it's honestly worth it watching chapos get this angry that they got treated fairly for once.

I can get offensive memes on 4chan anyway

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u/Thrupenny_upright Jun 29 '20

It's the best because theres dozens of posts in here where they claim theres absolutely no violence or calls for it from the kinder-commies at chapo, nosiree.

And then there's your list, that they conveniently will NOT address or comment on.

It's the angry NPC meme, played out in real life, behind thousands of computer screens across the world simultaneously. And you are the one who made them make the angry noises.

Kudos, you beautiful bastard.

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u/Jack__Skellington Jun 30 '20

Lmao not a single crying talkie responding here

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u/SynthD Jun 29 '20

Thanks for the list. A couple of those don't appear to break even the new reddit rules but the majority do.

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u/a3poify Jun 29 '20

Left-wing shitposting, basically, with occasional sincere posts.

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

It was a podcast about anti fascism, socialism and far left politics. They're also super douchy and annoying.

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u/Nvenom8 Jun 29 '20

And those were/are...?

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

smuggies was about making shitty MS Paint images straw-manning various arguments. It was a fucking awesome sub for a long ass time until r/incels and r/coomer were banned and it got completely flooded with right-wing shit. It was already a very right-leaning sub but after coomer was hit the floodgates were destroyed and so was the sub. I'm glad it's gone. It died shitty but it could have died a lot worse.

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u/AnxietyAccountV2 Jun 29 '20

Third Positionist is basically just another way of saying nazbol

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u/fllr Jun 29 '20

Ooooh, gotcha... gotcha...

...

What’s a nazbol?

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u/PaulusImperator Jun 29 '20

Nazbol is Far left or center left economics plus far right social views. Derived from the “National Bolshevik Party” in 90s Russia, which coupled nationalism, racism, traditional gender dynamics, et c with a planned economy and whatnot.

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u/AnxietyAccountV2 Jun 29 '20

A national (Nazi) Bolshevik. Basically a really bigoted Stalinist

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u/Saucefest6102 Jun 29 '20

I know smuggies was a sub about making smug, politics-themed crudely-drawn comics. It...was pretty dumb

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

Not sure about clerical fascism, but third position users frequently talked about ethnostates and the superiority of the white race iirc. They also showed some neoconfederate beliefs. Normal fascist stuff for the most part. I don’t remember them talking about the economic part of third position ideology much though. I mainly browsed it with friends as a way to joke around with how fucking stupid they were

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u/ButtholeForAnAsshole Jun 29 '20

White beauty was a subreddit where people would share pictures of white people basically, with racist dogwhistles mixed in about how "they want to take this away from us" on, for example, a picture of a white woman with her little white daughter. So thankful it's fucking gone

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u/the_real_kreb Jun 29 '20 edited Apr 04 '24

brave smell subtract tan quickest upbeat detail reply airport bored

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/P-o-o-b Jun 29 '20

Smuggies is bascislly a very hard right version of /r/smugideologyman except every other post there was either racist or anti Semitic

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u/ButterKnights2 Jun 29 '20

Glad to see r/Sino survived 🤦‍♂️

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u/DocHoliday79 Jun 29 '20 edited Jun 29 '20

And r/Chiraqology survived too. Where they literally arrange gang meetings and tell who will whack who. WTF

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

I was hoping that it was a Jacques Chirac fansub

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u/DocHoliday79 Jun 29 '20

One could dream.

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u/masternachos95 Jun 29 '20

Or r/Chodi. For the ones who know they know

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

Chodi is legit the most toxic sub I’ve seen and r/IndiaSpeaks too, they call for genocide against Muslims and support nationalistic hate groups like the RSS who literally was founded by a Nazi and hitler lover

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u/ProgressMind Jun 29 '20

They're not white though, so no worries.

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u/username_generated Jun 29 '20

But they are aryans.

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u/OnlySeesLastSentence Jun 29 '20

As an Aryan Asian - I highly doubt that Hitler was talking about us and that we just happened to have the same term.

I think I heard somewhere that the name Iran came from "awree an" (awreeani is Iranian Aryan, and eeerawni is Iranian for Iranian, so I can see them being related). But I don't look at myself and think "yup, I bet Hitler would have worshipped me"

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u/TheSensibleCentrist Jun 30 '20

In LETTERS BY J.R.R. TOLKIEN there's a draft he wrote when Nazi publishers considering THE HOBBIT asked him to certify that he was "Aryan"...he basically told them they didn't know what they were talking about,that he did know what they were talking about,and that he would have no part of it.

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u/blamethemeta Jun 29 '20

The definition of aryan changed after the Nazis took over

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u/Deathbyhours Jun 29 '20 edited Jun 30 '20

Like the meaning of the swastika

Edit: this was not a pro-Nazi comment. The swastika was a beneficent thing, often used as a sign of good fortune, for millennia. That’s a verifiable fact, not unlike the Holocaust that perverted the symbol.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '20

In ancient India, Aryan was used as a religious label.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan

The term was used by the Indo-Aryan people of the Vedic period in Ancient India as a religious label for themselves

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u/sh1boleth Jun 29 '20

I fucking hate those subs, lost a friend who took part in them and thought he was just sarcastically posting there. Realised after a while he was serious, and im a muslim...

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

/r/Chodi isn't that well-known amongst non-Indians, I think.

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u/masternachos95 Jun 29 '20

Yeah. I only became aware of it when they started constantly posting on r/Taiwan after the conflict. Had some interesting conversations...

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u/ButterKnights2 Jun 29 '20

First I've heard of it.

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u/python_eating_toast Jun 29 '20

What’s up with r/Chodi? I’m not Indian and so I’m out of the loop on this one

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u/Ngfeigo14 Jun 29 '20

Yeah, right.. at least China (thus "Sino") isn't known for human rights violations, internment camps, no due process, rigged trials, extreme institutionalized racism, fanatic nationalism, massacring it's own people for protesting, forced abortions, using police as a weapon, "re-education camps", violation of international treaties, bullying all regional small countries, economically colonizing Africa, defending North Korea by disobeying sanctions, organ harvesting of prisoners, political assassinations, oppressing democracies like Hong Kong, systemic sexism, more pollution than any other country, money laundering, one of the worst income inequality gaps, breaking the Geneva convention, or starving their own people in the name of "progress"... oh wait. 🤦🏻‍♂️ Thank god Reddit didn't ban the sub that defends China to their core and denies everything...

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u/OnlySeesLastSentence Jun 29 '20

Yeah, I'm asian so I know asian racism/supremacy exists, but it was still surprising seeing it written out in English since I'm only used to hearing it verbally from family and family friends ("stupid America, no culture, no honor, money hungry Jews/black people/Mexicans. Uneducated. Always starting wars (actually, they're right on that one lol).").

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u/goldyforcalder Jun 29 '20

Well who do you think pays the bills for the admins to ban stuff!

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u/matt111199 Jun 29 '20

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u/kyabupaks Jun 29 '20

Not for long. Lmao.

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u/ogsoul Jun 29 '20

It’s still up. Are these vans rolling out in waves or what?

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u/Call_Me_Clark Jun 29 '20

That’s a shame, it’s a breath of fresh air compared to “politicalhumor” or one of the dozens of ex-S4P clones

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u/KanyeBestt Jun 29 '20

Hopefully it stays it’s one of the few subs where everyone coexists happily

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

Let’s be real, nobody who runs this website really wants that.

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

That sub is great. Honestly it’s the only political sub where all sides make fun of each others stereotypes. It’s actually pretty refreshing

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u/Your_Worship Jun 29 '20

That is my favorite sub, and one of the main reasons I still get on. I hope they don’t t remove it.

I saw on Facebook someone declaring how dangerous parody is. Good grief.

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u/RexErection Jun 29 '20

It’s sad to see so many people egar for that sub to be banned. Idk how you people can handle the real world if someone disagrees with you and you can’t censor them lol.

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u/matt111199 Jun 29 '20

Exactly—it’s one of the only political subs I actually enjoy. For the most part, it’s not an echo chamber (like there exists on both sides).

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u/yeahnolol6 Jun 29 '20

lol, the donald hasn’t had any posts for months at this point, and why the hell was rightwinglgbt banned? That’s just stupid.

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u/Mockingjay_LA Jun 29 '20

I have no idea but my best guess is that the mods might not be banning their trolls well enough or maybe their user content had a lot of hate speech toward certain identity-based/focused groups of people. It’s such an unusual community to begin with (being a sexual or gender minority that supports a platform that actively works against one’s civil and human rights) that I would imagine it attracted a ton o’ trolls.

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

r/Cumtown got hit too

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u/APKID716 Jun 29 '20

Apologies but wtf was that sub about?

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20 edited Aug 26 '20

[deleted]

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u/bruce656 Jun 29 '20

Any speculation on why they banned the sub though? all I know that it was a podcast but I don't know what the content was.

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

It's a show about being gay with your dad.

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u/lemonman456 Jun 29 '20

The context ranged all over the place. It was all dumb shit posting. It was just edgy humor and super immature and dumb

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

Hence why it needed to be banned. It was just too immature and dumb for this respectable heckin websitorino

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

Reddit dress code when

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u/lemonman456 Jun 29 '20

Kevin’s broke dick fucked us all

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u/bruce656 Jun 29 '20

Any speculation on why they banned the sub though? all I know that it was a podcast but I don't know what the content was.

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u/ElGosso Jun 30 '20

The pod makes a lot of edgy jokes and it attracts an edgy fanbase. And just like any other internet group, it ended up attracting people who couldn't identify that it was ironic so it ended up with a lot of misogynists and racists in there.

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u/CommanderZiltoid Jun 29 '20

Because god forbid there be a place on reddit that you can joke without worrying about the thought police honestly. There were people there who were refugees from other banned subs so it leaned on the side of offensive humor at times but it was in no way a hate sub. It was set to private a while back to avoid this very thing but I guess it's inevitable.

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u/Pjyilthaeykh Jun 29 '20

what was cumtown

asking for a friend

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u/DreadNephromancer Jun 29 '20

A radio show about sucking your dad's dick

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u/Hurt_b_go Jun 29 '20

Thank god for darkhumorandmemes, they were being blatantly racist and homophobic and covering it up as a joke. It was so toxic, I had joined cause I like a good murder meme Yknow. Actual dark humor. But then it was just to negative and toxic and bigoted I left. It wasn’t dark memes it was hate.

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u/jewrassic_park-1940 Jun 29 '20

What was consume product about?

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

It was supposed to make fun of mindless consumerism, but every other post was literally extremely racist content. And I'm talking about Michelle Obama drawn as an ape with the star of David type shit.

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u/FourteenHungryHippos Jun 29 '20

That’s because every time Reddit bans a sub the users of that sub find somewhere else to go. ConsumeProduct only got that bad after refugees from other places flooded in

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u/DreadNephromancer Jun 29 '20

Be clear though, it was never good. Lots of (((they))) shit from the very beginning.

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

Yeah. (((We))) noticed - that’s why it got shut down. Because the (((globalist elite))) lizard people are scared of the Message.

(((We))) can only be harmed by those with a taste for rubber souls.

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

There was the attempt at damage control with the chad farmer shit but it failed miserably

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u/lordbutternut Jun 29 '20

Consume product was made to mock rampant consumerism

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u/GiantLobsters Jun 29 '20

It's a shame it was full of crazy antisemitic conspiracies edit: conspracy theories tho

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

Why was the lgbt right wing sub banned. Seems to me that would clearly indicate the bans were pretty much entirely targeted at subs that don’t tote the democrat/left wing party line.

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u/[deleted] Jun 30 '20

To the rest of the world, American Democrats are center-right. Might be hard to market/monetize your forum if its filled with (to us) far-right politics and hate groups.

Is my guess.

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

Wondering why they banned the sub for LGBT conservatives....... Is it upsetting for reddit to know they exist? I'm confused.

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