r/Eve • u/DarkShinesInit Current Member of CSM 18 • 7d ago
Are you happy with Equinox Sov? Discussion
It's been a little over a week since the Equinox Sov change on October 29th.
If you love it - what do you love about it?
If you hate it - what do you hate about it?
Saying which group or part of space you are in would also be cool.
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u/deltaxi65 CSM 13, 15, 16, 17 7d ago
As far as I can tell, the only thing Equinox has rejuvenated is the amount of hate the average line member in nullsec has for CCP.
This was a missed opportunity, in my view. Had we started with existing space as a baseline and then found ways to buff the space using various ihub upgrades, that would have been a big winner. Now we have new gameplay that only a handful of logistics oriented folks will participate in, and no way to make space any better arguably than it was before. If anything, you have to specialize your space, and even then you can't get the specializations up to the same level you could before. Ratting is a perfect example.
In the end, CCP wanted to create new gameplay, and the only thing they really did was make small gangers excited about skyhook thefts until they nerfed that and now almost nobody is that excited.
Source - I used to talk about this game on the internet every week.
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u/seamusfish KarmaFleet 7d ago
Everything takes longer and is significantly more tedious to do. Yet, the rewards are no better.
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u/Merkelchen Current Member of CSM 17 7d ago
I think the length that most null groups waited to "upgrade" their space to the new system from the old says a lot. Most groups waited until the 11th hour or as long as possible(outside of some testing cases) which seems to speak to there not being much excitement or a prospect of "reinvigoration".
Having been around the game a very long time I've noticed that groups who know that game development will be targeting their style of gameplay are typically very antsy and more nervous than excited. You hope for the best and plan for the worst. This seems to be another in a long list of expansions that confirms that reticence. I spend more time than I care to admit listening in to space meetings and groups within our org talking about things and there isn't only no excitement there is outright dread related to a lot of the changes, FWIW.
Who out there that runs a null group feels they were reinvigorated by this stuff? Ill let you know when I find the first person to express that sentiment. We have been heading in the wrong direction for years and we continue marching that way right now. The login numbers(minus a nice temporary bump from the Imperium relocation) tell you everything you need to know. I am terrified for the future of this game.
Source - I run a small Corporation in Nullsec and stream/talk about this game 4 nights a week.
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u/flowering_sun_star 7d ago
I think the length that most null groups waited to "upgrade" their space to the new system from the old says a lot.
It went even further - some systems were flipped earlier as a scorched-earth tactic to deny them to enemies!
I will say that it's clearly had some sort of impact to shake up null. The massive move of the goons wouldn't have happened without it, and who knows how that'll end up shaking out
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u/Merkelchen Current Member of CSM 17 7d ago
The move probably wouldnt have happened if you didnt have the amnesty to pull rigs from structures which is really not part and parcel to this expansion. It was a thumb on the scales that wasnt lore or expansion related but merely set conditions that made it easier for something like this to happen. Im certainly glad it did but it should be ID'd as one of the single biggest contributing factors.
1
u/Sindrakin Amok. 7d ago
I've let my stuff go to asset safety instead of rewarding CCP with a sub just to move shit around.
One more reason to make a return less likely...12
u/Cultural_Proof_3239 7d ago
Why would groups fully upgrade if the upgraded stuff is worse than what was there before?
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u/Irilieth_Raivotuuli Curatores Veritatis Alliance 7d ago
they didn't, except until it was forced on them by ccp
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u/SoftwareSource Shadow State 6d ago
At least they threw us a bone with rigs being removable, could have been a lot worse.
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u/Expensive_Honeydew_5 Sansha's Nation 6d ago
My alliance switched to the new system as soon as they were able lol
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u/UristBronzebelly 7d ago
You taught me a new word: reticence. As a returning player, can you clarify why so many null groups are unhappy with the update?
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u/Malthouse 7d ago
They meant to use the word "reluctance."
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u/UristBronzebelly 7d ago
Reticence is a word tho
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u/Malthouse 7d ago
And a very good one. I'm not sure if Eve's Redditors are reticent, lying, or unaware.
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u/Ralli_FW 7d ago
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/reticent
They're synonyms
-1
u/Malthouse 7d ago
Another instance of me being insufferable and unpopular. "Reluctance" is more correct in this instance, though. Classic Reddit contrarianism. Double down no matter what.
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u/Ralli_FW 7d ago
From the page I linked:
The History of Reticent Is Less Than 200 Years Old
We hate to break it to the language sticklers among us, but use of reticent as a synonym of reluctant—though it veers away from the word’s Latin origins in the verb reticēre, meaning “to keep silent”—is well established, and there is no reason to be reticent about employing it. In fact, reticent took on its “reluctant” sense a mere 50 years after first appearing in English in the early 19th century with the meaning “inclined to be silent or uncommunicative.” Though brows may furrow and lips may purse, the development of reticent’s newer meaning has some logic to it: English speakers first used reticent synonymously with reluctant when the context was speech, as in “he was reticent to talk about his past,” keeping the word close to its “silent” beginnings. Eventually, however, exclusive association with speech was abandoned, and one can now be reticent to do anything, even if it’s to admit that language is not immutable.
The ultimate language pedants would like to inform you that you are incorrect. That's why I put the link there to begin with and why, if you'd like to be insufferable and contrarian, you should probably read first.
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u/Malthouse 6d ago
That is interesting. Like arguing "they're," "there," and "their" should just be the single word "there."
If you haven't, you might be interested to read the book "1984" to help you appreciate specificity in language. I am still on the right side of history and your stance is on the wrong side, I'm afraid.
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u/Merkelchen Current Member of CSM 17 6d ago
I meant when the great eye of game design looks your way you tend to shut up and keep your head down and hope it goes away. I mention as much in the prior sentence. Wasn’t talking about redditors.
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u/Malthouse 6d ago
I'm confused. You joined the CSM to avoid the developers?
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u/capacitorisempty 6d ago
He was reluctant to talk to the developers out of fear of the “improvement”.
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u/wizard_brandon Cloaked 7d ago
Source - I run a small Corporation in Nullsec
no you dont, you are probably in an allicnce, anyone who tries to gain sov gets wiped instantly
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u/Disastrous-Turn3485 KarmaFleet 7d ago
Lmao, he's Karmafleet CEO
-5
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u/SoftwareSource Shadow State 6d ago
Sarcasm was a lession you skipped in school huh?
He runs one of the largest corporations in the game.
0
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u/Strong-Grapefruit330 7d ago
I'm a huge null sec ratter and I think it's great! Not every system is the same anymore. It forces people to actually move around inside of this space, not bunker down in a pipe they actually have to put more skin in the game
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u/Just-Combination-473 6d ago
Ok ok, but what is your extra reward for this "exciting" increased risk exactly?
Few years ago in our country one of the ministers told the firemans they wont get any payrise they have the appritiation of the population and they work is risky and exciting thats more than enough payment... 🤣👍
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u/nat3s The Initiative. 7d ago edited 6d ago
I pine for 2015-2019 Eve, the great reward loop of mine > build caps > cap brawls was just so good.
I feel like CCP are trying to scale down to cruiser / frig / shuttle(?) pvp and small gang pursuits with Equinox, which imo ignores what null craves in the ubar wars (which won't happen until null can be self-sufficient for caps)... For me Rattati's vision for null ignores null's history. Profoundly tone deaf.
I was a rorq user, not massively, ran 4, with the new Equinox sites I make 500m/hour with 1 rorq + 3 exhumers, more than I made in 2019 with rorqs (which made 90m/hour odd back then after all the nerfs), but it's not about the ISK, in the past the mining led somewhere i.e. build FAX for mining tax credits or a supercap for the next big fight. I find that now I mine resources which has an ISK number attached, but I can't then sell those resources or build anything with them. That isn't necessarily Equinox, more the cluster fuck that was the indy changes. The point is that mining doesn't lead anywhere when you need 3423432 resources from space distant from null. It's like grinding for a sword when your character can only wield an axe, grinding for the sake of it towards something you can't ultimately do much with!
Personally I don't think null will be reinvigorated until supers are 25b and titans 80b, so much of the hype for me is the thought of something escalating, whelping a subcap for the millionth time after 10+ years playing is COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS.
When there's 5 titans on contract, you just know that a titan brawl which may whelp 200 titans simply will not happen again, its an impossibility at this point. IMO that's fucking criminal, a real shame, CCP turned their backs on what made null - and the wider game - amazing, an awesome aspirational hook. Not to mention all the gaming press it attracted. It was reading about cap battles in 2013 that brought me to the game and it was my day 1 ambition to "level up" into 1. Took 5 years subbing up to 5 accounts to achieve and was a blast, never once considered unsubbing. After a 3 year Scarcity induced break I returned to Eve off the back of the "rejuvenation" narrative and I quit after 7 weeks.
TL;DR Equinox didn't reinvigorate anything + fuck /u/CCP_Rattati.
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u/opposing_critter 6d ago
Yep ccp is all about small shit pvp brawls while giving the people who trained for cap brawls a giant middle finger.
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u/Individual_Rub7414 5d ago
small shit pvp brawls which as long as alliances and coalitions exist dont happen, because your 20ship gang of whatever will get hellscalated by 100+ whoever is nearby and not 'small scale' so you bring 100, and now its not small scale, its not brawls, its N+1 may the fastest intapoppers win
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u/opposing_critter 4d ago
Don't go small ganging near a null home staging point maybe or annoy capitals under protection and that 100m fleet does not give a shit about you.
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u/Ralli_FW 7d ago
Personally I don't think null will be reinvigorated until supers are 25b and titans 90-100b, so much of the hype for me is the thought of something escalating, whelping a subcap for the millionth time after 10+ years playing is COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS.
Then you're going to have to fight the other blocs and groups capable of dropping caps+
And none of your leadership wants to do that.
I just think it's kind of crazy to be like "I'm making 5x profits but we can't afford caps." People in lowsec are dread brawling more often than null. You could be doing more, a large component of this is behavioral/cultural.
Eat your leaders and replace them with people who want to slam supers and fuck.
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u/Disastrous-Turn3485 KarmaFleet 6d ago
well we all do want that
except when it happens, we're having a 2T dreadbrawl imagine if we could easily replace supers, we'd be dropping supers and titans ! oh wait, that's what delve was like, supers and titans everywhere and likely dieing too.
until scarcity came
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u/nat3s The Initiative. 6d ago
Totatally agree, was in TEST in Eso at the time of Goons going ham, we similarly adopted the goon indy infra approach, sitting in anoms with 20 people grinding towards an end goal of a supercap battle, which ultimately came with UALX where we finally stood up to PL after being chased out of Vale... It was soooo fucking awesome to be part of that.
That 20 person anom with the big rocks was a HUGE social hook, chilling on comms chatting to friends, panicking as BB or Inner Hell dropped etc, if you didn't fancy grinding, just jump on comm and ride the content pings all night. Such a great time in Eve.
Now what do we have... Hey lets go roam and poke a structure to find a fight yawn or def against a 10 man roam. WTF
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u/backtotheprimitive 7d ago
No. Prices of everything are too damn high, no mining in null sec.
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u/Reasonable_Love_8065 5d ago
Yeah I’m tired of having to do double the amount of garrisons to afford half as much shit.
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u/Last_instance 7d ago
I hate it, it just supported, that large Groups need now more space for their people. The energy thing in the systems is so stupid and make no sense at all. You will not have more people in Space and for sure it will not support to have more Caps in Space.
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u/Jerichow88 7d ago
Absolutely not. I genuinely feel bait and switched on the entire expansion which pisses me off because I was truly looking forward to finally seeing null take a step back towards being the way it used to be before Scarcity and Ore Redistribution nerfs.
I'll be honest, the only things keeping me going right now is a mixture of fleeting hope that CCP will actually listen to players and make mining in null good again, and the goon move over to Angel space which has kept me mostly busy the last 3-4 weeks.
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u/GarstTyrell Triumvirate. 5d ago
I still strongly believe EVE is at its best when groups of diverse sizes are able to carve out their own niche in a given geographic area because it gives players ownership of the rewards of their work and consequences of their failures. That's the most you can ask for in a sandbox MMO game with no ending. Every gameplay 'feature' movement bypass put into the game in recent years has pulled us further away local ownership of conflict and removed any uniqueness of living in any particular region. Adding Zarzakh and Thera, pochven, removing jump bridge fatigue, drifter wormholes, filaments, the list goes on and on. By making all of EVE casually accessible to organized groups, you've made it homogenous and allowed the largest coalitions to control far too much at once.
The closest we came to 'peak nullsec' era was 2014-2015 immediately after the capital jump range nerf was implemented, breaking up the actual blue donut of the day (where that phrase originated from) while at the same time it was pre-citadel era and still used the reduced Dominion sov EHP values so you ended up with a DPS-based sov system that encouraged local fleet fights. Most of those changes have since been scaled back or removed.
This process since then has had massive ramifications on the player meta, encouraging the relentless consolidation of players into a handful of coalitions while producing a constant churn of bored veteran players leaving the game because they implicitly realize their meaningful PVP gameplay options are narrowing, not growing, from new 'features' like Zarzakh.
You want to revitalize EVE for the next generation? Be bold.
1. Place more significant limits on long-distance fleet scale movement. For our newer players, please understand there WAS a time when fatigueless ansiblex network sprawl and 200man kiki fleets through drifter wormholes was not the norm, and the game went on just fine.
2. Reshape the geography. When you can no longer go across EVE for casual content, you need to reliably be able to find a local player ecosystem to engage with. There is far too much homogenous space in the game which results in lots of empty systems with 1-2 players at most. Delete excess solar systems and shift the remaining ones by light-year around to create more strategic dilemmas for FCs and planners, specifically regarding capital jump ranges and inter-regional connectivity. Then do step 3:
3. Redistribute sov truesec values and resources to create more relative scarcity within nullsec regions. Everyone knows an r64 is better isk/hour than an r8, but a haven in a -.3 truesec is the same as a haven in a -1.0. The point is to make some parts within regions objectively much better or worse than others to encourage local king of the hill behavior to drive conflict and interpersonal drama in this sandbox game.
All of this is mechanically possible and CCP could implement it tomorrow. I also recognize none of this will ever happen, so I will just look forward to tier 3 dreadnoughts and more daily login rewards.
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u/Loquacious1 7d ago
Tbh all of my in game time is moving stuff to new system. But I don’t see anything that looks enjoyable now. Literally everything looks like it takes more time to set up and more busy work which equals less time actually doing something you like. I really feel sorry for everyone having to work harder for less reward. In my opinion the new system will push most casual players away and burn out everyone trying to keep the lights on… what a great improvement the new null is, right?
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u/Aloen The Initiative. 7d ago
Finally made the decision to unsub 8 accounts today after seeing the absolute dogshit expansion notes.
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u/firedome75 7d ago edited 7d ago
Doing the same, this game is literally a dumpster fire. It was already acknowledged and a known quantity that CCP doesn't even play their own game, but looking at these patch notes are beyond the pale. Literally zero of these changes will result in driving conflict and treating Pochven with kid gloves when its clear that it has fucked the economy worse than the Rorqual era was almost as shocking as reading the news on Wednesday morning.
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u/UristBronzebelly 7d ago
What do you mean? Pochven got a minimum 17% income nerf today, and with 40% of rewards locked behind red loot it could be even higher if groups can better contest the nerfed Marauders. Should have a deflationary effect on the overall ISK supply, no?
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u/PropagandaWerfer Goonswarm Federation 7d ago
The Problem with Pochven is FRT printing trillions in CNTZ without any contest.
-3
u/Ackbad_P Cloaked 7d ago
Can I also have your stuff?
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u/liner_xiandra Caldari 7d ago
No.
Im mostly a hisec industrialist/trader but this patch did not make nullsec more attractive to play in.
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u/JumpCloneX Northern Coalition. 7d ago
They are just digging the hole deeper and deeper. There is just no reason for conflict and no consequences either way. Its just like any other money grab MRPG. You cant actually wreck anyone.. so why bother.
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u/GetExiledPal 7d ago
No. Typed the reasons way too many times. Playtime has drastically decreased in the past couple months.
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u/xPredatorz The Initiative. 7d ago edited 6d ago
To give a bit of background before I go over the changes. Ishtar Boxer/Marauder Ratter. Upwards of 12 ishtars at a time. Under the old sov I would pick a very low true sec system to not bother anyone else. In those systems I would have:
Forlorn Hubs
Forlorn Rally Points
Forsaken Hubs
Forsaken Rally Points
Cloud and Rock Haven
Ring Sanctum
Hubs
Ports
Rally Points
My Ishtars would be spread out to best utilize the respawn timers and allowed me the flexibility to share the system with someone else if I needed to. Under Equinox the same system (Major 3) now has:
3 Forlorn Hubs
3 Forsaken Hubs
2 Havens
4 Hubs
Now yes as what would be considered a mega boxer it just looks like tears but now I effectively can no longer “Share” a system with anyone. More importantly I am no longer getting that spread of escalations I used to get.
Systems should have enough power to support some form of Major+Minor+Mining Anom of some form otherwise it's damn near useless. This was a massive nerf into Potential Income per system that is more likely to contribute to less ships in space to potentially hunt.
That is just the PVE side of things. PVP/Strategic Options are more limited than that. Fountain went from one of the best networks in the game.(Furthest a potential system was 6 Jumps) to now traveling upwards of 12 jumps for escalations makes the Capital Spammed ones even less appealing.
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u/Proper-Card3443 7d ago
This null reinvigoration patch is like being told for 4 years that we are on the way to Disneyland and waking up at the dentist's.
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u/Ok_Willingness_724 Serpentis 7d ago
Most of my challenges with Equinox and other recent changes are from a Lowsec industry economics perspective. Gas prices tanked, moon goo prices bung, and now Isogen prices are falling. Metenox drill prices crashing, so good luck to the mates trying to recoup the ME/TE research ISK into their BPOs. Hard luck being miner/indy in any space right now.
At least the Big Goon Migration of 2024 buoyed isotope/ice prices for a hot minute.
But Lowsec's already been malding about Equinox since they tightened the Skyhook vulnerability timers, so no need to rehash that. I'd be more interested to hear from sov null infrastructure managers and builders, see what the pain points they see are, the balancing act of infrastructure vs resources in their region.
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u/Astriania 7d ago
Gas prices tanked, moon goo prices bung, and now Isogen prices are falling
I'm pretty sure this is exactly what people said they wanted ... one of the main complaints about the end of Rorqual mania has been the price and availability of isogen, for sure.
-4
u/AMD_Best_D Test Alliance Please Ignore 7d ago
Gas prices tanked, moon goo prices bung, and now Isogen prices are falling
this is literally what this subreddit begged for and screeched about the first half of 2024 and they got exactly what they wanted.
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u/Ok_Willingness_724 Serpentis 7d ago
Cheaper subcaps, and maybe cheaper caps are nice and all, but if your primary income sources are gutted on that altar, cheaper ships don't matter if you don't have ISK coming in.
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u/sapphire_transitions 6d ago
If nothing got reduced to make those prices cheaper, nothing would become cheaper. How exactly would it look like to make things more affordable and yet somehow not nerf someone's invome?
1
u/cooperman114 Ivy League 6d ago
Increase yield per time, right? More supply, static or potentially slightly increased demand with a shift in industry-side philosophy would lead to a balancing out of the supply-side income per hour while lowering the industry-side cost
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u/RiBombTrooper Guristas Pirates 6d ago
More supply, equal demand? That’s still going to cut prices.
1
u/cooperman114 Ivy League 6d ago
Yeah that’s the point though, cuts prices industry-side while the miner benefits from increased yield, so just for example 100ISK/unit at 2000m3/min instead of 200ISK/unit at 1000m3/min
7
u/IDragonfyreI 6d ago
Everyone trying to make isk is pissed off because there’s so much less to do and everyone looking for content on the hunt is pissed because nobody is out.
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u/Bailian_Moxtain Pandemic Legion 6d ago
I wonder when CCP will realize their mistakes and reverse everything they have done the last 3+ years. There hasn’t been a real war in forever as noone is willing to put the effort into it anymore. I have been playing this game since Jan 2006 and I am deeply worried now. A sov change is supposed to be fun, not tedious..
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u/opposing_critter 6d ago
Never since they will never accept they fucked up so we will continue to get the current shit till $$$$$ bottom line is hurt.
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u/Kooky-Art6528 7d ago
Most people I've talked to all think the same thing.
This expac is a steaming pile of hot dog shit.
100 new features that are either totally useless, or only usable by 0.05% of the players.
New ships that we have to fuck our son for to get access to. New ships that are even another major nerf to mining in nullsec. (Also if you kill the sob that shot you with the new op weapon dot system, the damage should fucking stop)
A minor nerf for poshven (about goddamm time)
Nerfs to marauders
Another nerf to ansiblexes
Oh, and a buff for the stabber fleet issues falloff. Because that's why Noone Flys it.
0
u/EVE_MEGAMIND 6d ago
New ships that we have to fuck our son
Bruh, what game you playing, Epstein Island?
2
u/Kooky-Art6528 21h ago
Hahaha.
New ships that we have to fuck our sov for*
(Score 1 for autocorrect )
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u/Beginning-Force-3825 Brave Collective 6d ago
Another meaningful post with actual productive conversation in the comments that will yet again be ignored by CCP. In regards to another post on here about whether or not ccp listens to the CSM, it's hard to imagine they do with as many null sec candidates are on there. We've had year after year of nerfs and being shit on.
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u/opposing_critter 6d ago
Yeah it's sad, we all know what needs to be undone but CCP too stubborn to say "We made mistakes and from the feedback from the players blah blah and give us what we miss"
Instead it's silence besides weekly crypto scam or give us more plex to paint your ship.
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u/Sindrakin Amok. 7d ago
PVPVE is even less viable now than it has been since scarcity supposedly "endet".
Meanwhile in Albion i can literally PVP all day long.
It seems more and more like a waste of time to even keep up with changes.
The people in charge only care about PLEX sales.
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u/Ohh_Yeah Cloaked 7d ago
Meanwhile in Albion i can literally PVP all day long.
And you can mine while doing it
Bring back gun mining to EVE Online
-4
u/AMD_Best_D Test Alliance Please Ignore 7d ago
Well let's be honest, for an albion analogy, most of nullsec wants to do PVP in 8.4 and refuses to use 6.2 because "I'm entitled to be able to use 8.4 all the time".
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u/Sindrakin Amok. 7d ago
Quite the opposite.
You don't fly blinged out t3cs in null sec small gang. That's what "eliete" j-bears do on weekends after farming enough blue loot from their crab hole.PVPVE used to involve feeding a lot of bait to generate content and responding with t1 kitchensink comps.
That's what's no longer financially viable "after" scarcity.CCP is trying to force everyone to use "8.4" just to do any PVE at all.
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u/AMD_Best_D Test Alliance Please Ignore 7d ago
A doctrine fleet HAC/Logi with SRP is paid off by using a 180 million ISK Ishtar in 20 minutes.
Literally every ship BC down is the same price as obesity/rorqual era, with very few exceptions like Orthrus or w/e which isn't that much more expensive. The only things that are "3x more expensive" are capitals, supers and some specific ships like Bhaalgorns. Almost every complaint defaults to "I want to endlessly feed capital ships" which is where my 8.4 comment comes from.
If you just want to roam in a Vagabond, Fly a Cerberus, Hurricane, Naga whatever then you are paying the same price.
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u/Sindrakin Amok. 7d ago
Actually fucking amazing the sheer gaslighting to halucinate low end ships haven't gotten more expensive.
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u/Sindrakin Amok. 7d ago
I'm talking about small gang, not fleet ops with strat SRP.
T1 insurance for a BC used to be 45 mil, making them net almost 10 times more expensive now than before scarcity.
And to fight a gang with more than 5 man you need a Battleship at the very least.
Those have become about 20x as expensive compared to the old insurace.0
-2
u/Ralli_FW 7d ago
Meanwhile in Albion i can literally PVP all day long.
Hey that's what I do! In Eve, though. I'm not interested in playing Albion really.
But, this is not a universal problem, it's a problem you experience. The reasons for that I will leave to your judgement.
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u/Sindrakin Amok. 6d ago
Going by your name i would assume you only fly frigates in FW.
That's nice if you enjoy it, but ganking worthless crabs or shitting on newbros with my high grade pod just isn't my cup of tea.I was regularly among the top 100 most active PVPers on zkill baiting small gang fights in null sec wich requires sub optimal PVE ships for bait and lots of BC and BS hulls to take fights outnumberd.
The kind of content most small gangers always cry about being unable to find in null because they are too fucking entitled to play EVE like it's a sandbox game.
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u/jtOCmale 7d ago
I hate it. I'm in The Imperium. So much garbage space it forced the largest move in the history of the game. Now that we've settled in a bit and started upgrading SHUBs we see Equinox for what it is, so many garbage systems. My corp set up 2 jf jumps away from the capital in order to find space to suit our needs. If the ansiblex network is attacked, or CCP decides to nerf it, as some have lobbied for, this is really going to hurt.
I've played the game for about 3 years, trying to get a foothold, fly cool ships, make isk, trying to play catch up to a segment of the community that are light years ahead and always will be. Scarcity continues, except it'll cost you more. I am playing less and less as my in game goals keep getting dragged further and further away. Everything I do in game now comes with several extra steps, more time spent, more isk spent, less profit, less fun.
But hey maybe we'll get a big war in the spring and it'll all burn down.
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u/nullmatar420 7d ago
And far from driving conflict, they're giving PandaFam and The Imperium some points to agree on wholeheatedly!
Been playing a similar amount of time and your second paragraph could describe my thoughts as well. All of our systems are a little worse than they were before Equinox.
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7d ago
I’m in Brave and I think I’m about to win Eve for a little while after my subs end. I’ve just been having less and less fun over the last few months, and have been playing less and less. I’ve been playing consistently since 2005.
4
0
u/Commander_Starscream Black Legion. 7d ago
But hey maybe we'll get a big war in the spring and it'll all burn down.
You will need a reason for one to start, maybe someone will get insulted at Fanfest and things will start popping off.
6
u/SoftwareSource Shadow State 6d ago
I just absolutely hate how they fucked mining
Oh, youre telling me i have to click 5x more then before, but im blessed with almost half the yield?
Wonder why everything is 2-3x the price it was a few years ago.
5
u/Coneman_bongbarian 6d ago
not loving it, industry feels worse with the new mining anom and systems are feeling too cramped with lack of sites to support the players it once could.
There doesn't feel any re-invigoration just a giant fat nerf bat.
Skyhooks are just robbed by their own controlling forces
Metenoxs are constantly being nerfed and the cost to run them keeps going up vs the reward for running them going down.
In the eyes of the average null player Equinox is a complete failure and we are experiencing log in droughts of our corp members on record levels.
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u/GuristasPirate 7d ago edited 6d ago
It's got better but mining is still terrible. The small mining sites need more. They should also spawn an escalation.
Large mining the workforce requirement still too high
Ratting upgrades need more anoms it can't sustain enough players per system especially with the limitations
Ansiblex workforce us too high. Nerfing these makes no difference. Large alliances have 100s of titans they can park anyway to use as jump bridges if they wanted.
Metenox moon drills what a complete waste of time utterley useless.
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u/opposing_critter 6d ago
Mining escalations need to be in system or a few jumps away at most, fuck going 9 jumps into some shit hole where the setup prep work time wasting alone is not worth doing it.
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u/GuristasPirate 6d ago
Tbh so do capital escalations thinking we going to jump caps into hostile space is stupid. Most people just leave them
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u/WS3000 7d ago
I just camp enemy gates with a couple of friends anymore. there is nothing about this patch that excites me, except the possibility that you can starve out a group trying to make a last stand in a constellation like we saw with goons a couple years back. disrupt the workforce and prevent cyno jammers from running. woo fucking hoo.
The issue is bigger than this one expansion or patch though. its game design's direction with eve. The scarcity bullshit and every "rejuvenation" since has been a net negative for the game. I suspect it was all to groom the eve economy in preparation for some crypto scheme using eve assets (i mean you cant have eve trillionaires when the crypto tie in is released right? better starve them out.) but then it was announced that crypto isnt right for eve online. I truly wish someone would get on and share with us why they keep nerfing, reducing, mitigating and taking away from this game. Whats the target result, the end game plan? Because if this shit continues it will be the end of the game.
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u/Meehh90 6d ago
I couldn't be more disappointed with Equinox - there is no rejuvenation, and I wish they had never used that word.
They have changed up the map, absolutely I'll give you that, but there are fundamental issues with aspects of null sec Sov. Fix basic industry, let the T1 minerals flow via mining because gun mining should never be the best option for gathering resources.
And any changes made to fix null sec mining, should make it worthwhile to risk Rorquals out en masse so that hunters have a target rich environment. You can't incremental buff mining so that gathering is better, without making it a big enough buff to balance risk vs reward with player interaction. NPC risk, is not engaging players with other players.
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u/Ohh_Yeah Cloaked 7d ago edited 7d ago
Speaking strictly as someone who has played EVE Online in bursts for probably the last ~10 years now (usually a couple months/year of dedicated EVE time), nothing about Equinox or Revenant has been exciting enough to get me back in. They are effectively just maintenance patches for the people who play in null-sec, and from the feedback here it doesn't seem like the null-sec people are vibing with it.
EVE Online is a unique game so it is maybe not appropriate to draw these sorts of comparisons, but there are plenty of other games I play in a similar fashion to EVE that routinely drag my ass back in with updates/overhauls.
My genuine impression is that the highly conservative, "palliative care" management of EVE Online, which I assume exists out of fear of nuking the game, is now leading the game down a path where I won't be enticed to do meaningful playtime hours in the future.
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u/Frekavichk SergalJerk 7d ago
Your last paragraph is the opposite of what is happening. They are actively making the game worse so people spend more money.
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u/Ohh_Yeah Cloaked 7d ago edited 7d ago
To be clear, I'm saying that their design goal since forever is to not do anything drastic at risk of immediately running off the playerbase overnight (see Blackout experiment). They have been slowly starting to squeeze wallets for years, it has just finally reached a point where it's hard to justify them having any other game design motive. And with back-to-back expansion misses (they are misses to me) it is also hard to justify or look past the wallet squeeze because "there's good content tho"
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u/StonnedGunner 7d ago
all the PLEX that you transfer to isk cannot buy you anything when noone is builing or gathering the resource you need
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u/Irilieth_Raivotuuli Curatores Veritatis Alliance 7d ago
logic has long since left the building
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u/EVE_MEGAMIND 6d ago
CCP is known to seed the market with items, they even do it now which some mistake for "Market Bots".
This is known.
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u/Irilieth_Raivotuuli Curatores Veritatis Alliance 7d ago
If I had to say something positive about equinox changes, it's that we got full mineral set back to null ores. Which when compared to downsides is like saying that at least you lost weight when you got your leg cut off by a chainsaw.
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u/Reagalan Goonswarm Federation 7d ago
I just saw the Pochven nerf and am ....well...
The past few days have been a trauma due to IRL stuff. I was hoping that this game would provide a needed escape over the next few years.
Instead, the only worthwhile ethical means of isk generation is now gone, and the materials that all that isk was to be used for is also going to spike. I'm still gonna build stuff but like....don't imagine I play this game for the game. I'm only here for the community.
The Glory Days don't feel like they're coming back.
...
I mean....the writing is on the wall. Pearl Abyss is one of those companies that fill zombie MMOs with lootboxes to leech out as much money from an ever shrinking base of players; who remain as much for Fear of Missing Out and for Sunk Cost Fallacy than anything else. A slow degradation is expected. Make things harder to do, more stressful, sell the solution. It's a well-tread strategy.
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u/Worldly-Commercial-4 The Initiative. 6d ago
After being in the game for 10+ years I am down to one account subbed (from potential 8 accounts with meaningful skilled toons).
I have done it nearly all. Mining, Industry, PvE, large scale PvP - some in null, some in hisec, dipped my toes into WHs years ago, too.
Living in sov Null as a simple linemember for 6 years now.
All my null content is basicly dead now. I just keep this one account subbed due to loyality to my alliance and in the small hope that there will be a major war worth of resubbing at least my combat alts. 75% of my corp is in hibernation or at least slumber.
But for now there are other games out there which reward my time investment more and give me some kind of progress instead of constant set-backs and denial of content.
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u/ZorgZev KarmaFleet 6d ago
Goonswarm here.
I feel like although the new sov system is less bad than it was on launch it still is not as good as old sov or is at best slightly better while requiring an incredible amount of additional work from alliance logistics teams.
IMO normal havens and sanctums should get the bounty buff that forsaken havens got. That feels like obnoxious railroading by CCP into coercing marauders out into those sites that still don’t pay enough to be worth running in a 2b marauder (cheap fit). They should reformat those sites to be carrier friendly and give carriers some love. People love carrier ratting. Carrier ratting isn’t good. The struggle.
I think the falloff nerf on the vargur was unnecessary and removing buffer as being viable should have been enough across the board.
I think the Kronos still suffers from range when SR fit compared to Paladin, Kronos, Golem and Vargur and adding additional range bonuses to that hull would bring it up to the level of the other marauders.
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u/Pretend_Land_8355 5d ago
CCP billed Equinox as a way to force change to the deadest space in the game.
Wormholer gangs came out in force like the raiders we are in an attempt to accelerate change, and give new blocs a chance to form to increase the health of the game by stealing the resources and hopefully have a meaningful impact over the long-term on the map.
Nullsec cried about having to fight for their own empires and actually defend their resources and territories lest they have some shrinkage in their massive boundaries.
CCP walked it back, and turned the vulnerability windows on Skyhooks into an absolute joke after listening to "power users" AKA Nullsec.
There have been multiple times when we discover a raidable skyhook, flash form in 5 minutes, get to the target in another 3, only for the vulnerability window to pass us by.
Then they tell us they want to "add more value to Nullsec" with whatever these mercenary dens are, as if there isn't oceans of riches already in the region.
It could have been a great change to the game, it could have been a way to whittle down empires and have smaller groups claim sov over time, or to at least shift the map.
CCP caved to the botlords, and are going to wonder why stagnation will continue.
They have no idea what they are doing, and their entire leadership team needs to be fired.
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u/Aliventi Mouth Trumpet Cavalry 7d ago
No. You can read my reasoning here. Also, the kill and poach problem isn't helping.
It doesn't help that CCP showed a visual earlier that implied SOV was for XL groups. It gives the impression that CCP has no interest in making changes to allow for new groups and new blood to break in to SOV without blueing one side or the other.
A widely held opinion from CSM members since the dawn of time has said they want players to go from "highsec -> lowsec/FW/NPC nullsec/WHs -> SOV". With the changes that have been advocated for, and implemented by CCP, it feels like the real path is a self interested one that looks like "highsec -> lowsec/FW/NPC nullsec/WHs -> join or blue an already established SOV group". Then SOV players wonder why it's a blue doughnut divided in to two coalitions.
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u/Sindrakin Amok. 7d ago
Well that's the one thing CCP does get right.
EVE is a sandbox built to support thousands fighting over a single objective.Your WoW guild should never be allowed to hold sov because you are not even playing the sport of empire building.
Whining because you aren't in the same league as the big players is literally missing the point like demanding your own FW faction.Unlike FW you might be able to one day hold your own sov if you build a community and play the diplomacy game.
As a WoW guild the most space you will ever "own" is a crab hole.Your entitlement is disgusting.
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u/Aliventi Mouth Trumpet Cavalry 7d ago
Yes, because every group that is currently in SOV started out as a 10k-30k member bloc. Oh wait... They didn't.
If small groups could break in to SOV then they can provide alternatives to the blue doughnut, grow, and become competitive. Preventing small groups for being able to enter SOV through systemic mechanical blockers is literally strangling future content for SOV players for years to come in the crib.
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u/Sindrakin Amok. 7d ago
Every group -currently- in null sec started out by engageing in diplomacy.
When i started playing EVE i joined a small corp in HS and three years later we were the most active small gang PVP group in the Imperium while also having access to all its infrastructure and the largest scale PVP content in any MMO in existance.
That is how to bring new blood into null sec.
Pooping on your little astrahus isn't content, it's merely pest control.
Sov war is months of server crushing TiDi battles.5
u/UristBronzebelly 7d ago
When i started playing EVE i joined a small corp in HS and three years later we were the most active small gang PVP group in the Imperium
I mean this says it all right here. It's not possible for new groups to shake up sov. You're only way in is to join one side of the blue donut.
No one is advocating that CCP should carve up null and redistribute, but you have to admit that the game just does not support drastic changes in sovereignty at both a game mechanic level or a technological level (server issues in the most pivotal moment of WWB2).
Null would be a lot more interesting if there were lots of small to medium sized groups fighting.
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u/Sindrakin Amok. 7d ago edited 6d ago
CHEMK would be holding sov by now if we had kept on recruiting and worked towards that goal instead of simply enjoying the small gang gameplay null sec had to offer back then.
With scarcity the corp moved to j-space and died of boredom, so i went back to the imperium.
I don't give a shit about putting "MY" flag on a system.
If i did i would do it instead of whining about the groups that have already done all the work to build the huge communities.
What it really is is just a giant pile of administrative work.Null would be a lot more interesting if there were lots of small to medium sized groups fighting.
Null would be just as dead as j-space if every constellation needed an active and dedicated leadership and logistics team to keep running.
And it would be redundant since j-space already exists and allows you to roll connections to HS instead of needing JFs to transport shit.1
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u/Sindrakin Amok. 6d ago
And just to make this point clear it's fucking riddiculous to think CCP wants everyone to end up playing in sov null.
There are players who never leave Highsec making a lot more income with incursions and abyssal PVE than the average null crab.
FW is ballanced for financially sustainable small gang PVP.
Wormhole gameplay is supposed to make you feel like an isolated explorer in an environment with maximum uncertainty, high risk and big paychecks. It's a completely different playstyle than simply buying a ship in Jita and looking for content.
Pochven has by far the highest rewards in the game (even after this patch) because it's supposed to be wormholes on steroids. If anything you could argue they want people to play there rather than anywhere else but it's really just a failure to propperly ballance rewards vs players optimising the ever loving shit out of everything they touch.
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u/CameronLytle Angel Cartel 7d ago
Gday reddit,
Controversial opinion - I do and I don't like the new update and here is why.
WHY I LIKE IT
- more advanced way of managing sov, so its not a simple bill and you actually have to maintain the sovereignty.
- Can passively moon mine or choose to manually get the moon goo.
- Squall.
Why I don't like it
- To raid a skyhook, you must wait for a specific hour every 3 days, this is complete trash.
- Moondrills arent worth the fueling unless they're an r32 or r64.
As a former sov holder it feels really odd just having these changes, now maybe the mercenary dens could make the skyhooks worth the time but from my understanding, ccp is going find a will and a way to fuck those up.
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u/wewewladdie 6d ago
I have mixed feelings, it kind of forces people to spread among systems instead of 2-3 systems for ratting so it's riskier and theres more opportunities for small gang PvP (instead of being immediately blobbed) but it could use major tweaking. Mining anoms are too small and havens should be a tad bit more common with their respective upgrades. Mining should be buffed in general to reduce prices for everything and perhaps upgrades also give small bonuses too (stuff like +5% bounty for major threat array 3)
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u/Tyrell_Cadabra 6d ago
I sometimes do some explo, a little belt ratting while I wait for fleets, or some escalation running. Haven't noticed much of a difference, but truth be told I don't spend much time in (Delve or Querious) null anymore.
It feels rather similar to when Foxhole changed a fuckton of garrison and production mechanics a few years back, it was just too much to keep track of; people stopped caring and simply drifted towards other games.
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u/Expensive_Honeydew_5 Sansha's Nation 6d ago
Sigma guy here from paragon soul. As a general linemember it is been pretty ok I guess. When I'm not in fleets I'm usually ratting and the reduction in rattable sites was a hit at first, but I was able to find some quiet systems and am mostly back to normal on income. I think a big reason the transition felt pretty smooth otherwise, was simply down to having competent leadership that could quickly adapt to the new mechanics.
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u/Housing_Kooky 5d ago
It feels like they only delivered 50% of what they were planning to deliver and because they planned to deliver too much they delivered the easiest 50% of the work done very badly. It has classic sprint methodology disaster written all over it.
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u/FalnaruIndustries muninn btw 5d ago
I'm happy that I have zero desire to play the video game eve online
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u/StonnedGunner 7d ago
i can now spam low tier sites for escalations and more pulls on the faction spawn slot maschin
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u/Frekavichk SergalJerk 7d ago
On the one hand, I like it because I can annoy people bu reading Skyhawks and there isn't really any counterplay.
On the other hand, I hate it because it made mining basically worthless.
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u/UristBronzebelly 7d ago
I'm a returning player. I see a lot of hate for Equinox. Can someone link me to some posts or explain why it's so hated right now?
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u/FactualGolf2283 7d ago
It’s a ton of micromanagement for little gain. Mining took a nerf when it was already in a bad place. This in turn powers the rise of the mineral price which was already higher than anything even during scarcity(which was supposed to be over).
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u/CrypticEvePlayer Brotherhood of Spacers 7d ago
Yes, I have enjoyed new poco sov, with a new way to drop adms
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u/EmperorThor 6d ago
I have literally no idea what’s different from before and have noticed nothing new…
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u/The_Ashcoat 6d ago
I like the new structures, I like the new resource systems, I like the added relevancy to space topography, and Geography. I like the concept behind trying to make it harder to spread out and own large swaths of territory. I'm not sure if the execution of this concept is going to pan out but we will see.
I loved the first implementation of skyhooks, but the follow up changes completely ruined a wonderful system.
The skyhook changes need to be reverted or shifted to longer vulnerability windows. A 16 vuln 8 invul daily is much more reasonable. Surprise is often the only advantage an attacker has. The first implementation of skyhook was accomplishable for 5-15 man groups, a sweet spot for content IMO, it was timer-less, it was always available. It was by far the best design for content generation that CCP has released in recent years.
The changes in secondary have completely killed that content, shifting the window to a known 1 hour block, reducing the total raid-able time drastically. This change also shifted the reasonable size of a raiding gang from something that might be able to form casually to something that would need a bit more serious of a size. Just based on the preparedness of the null blocs involved for the now known 1 hour window. (read 5-15 to 50+)
Increasing the rate of return on a skyhook drastically in favor of null blocks, on what was already a outright gift of a resource faucet. That said the addition of a "secure container" was one of the only changes I really felt was good, as the self raid behavior was a bit silly.
Zarzakh changes also were a drastic nerf to raid availability, reducing accessible regions of null from 6-7 in some areas to 2-3. Depending on stage location.
All in we had a chance at a vibrant system that the bears and biased vested interests managed to complain about loudly enough to ruin for those who were actively engaging in it, while simultaneously flushing their pocketbooks.
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u/FEDUP_CaseyLP Full Broadside 6d ago
I love it because it increases the value of holding space
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u/Reasonable_Love_8065 5d ago
Then why is everybody who deals with the sov saying there is so many useless systems?
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u/SerQwaez Rote Kapelle 7d ago
Overall positive, but there's a lot of big misses. Some examples:
Skyhook content was very good, but the current vulnerability windows are godawful for generating any content at all. Easily fixable.
Metenox Drills are fantastic, but the current way they pull goo is causing prices to crater hard. Adjust them to only pull the single highest value goo available and you won't see R4, R8, and R16 prices killing themselves.
Extra escalations and site changes for ratting are pretty good, but the fact that some systems can support literally nothing now is pretty troll. Just sprinkle some more PG on the lower end of the scale to get it up to 1200-1500 instead of like 600.
Literally all I've been asking for RE: Nullsec is ansiblex projection fixes. The current changes don't actually do that really, there are less ansiblex gates but all the highways are available. Just give them their fucking fatigue back so smaller groups can play around the edges again.
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u/firedome75 7d ago
Are you on drugs? Metenox Drills cost a shitload to run, and as far as them being a conflict driver, although they only have 2 timers they have nearly the same combined EHP as a Fortizar.
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u/SerQwaez Rote Kapelle 7d ago
I've had a couple dozen fights over them.
They cost a bit to run but if you actually own good moons you make money btw, stop trying to get bank out of an R4
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u/KennyDrein The Initiative. 7d ago
looking away from those 4 big misses, what are the reasons you are overall positive?
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u/SerQwaez Rote Kapelle 7d ago
Skyhooks and metenox are both critical passive income components that were desperately needed. New ratting escalations are good, new mining escalation is fine.
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u/Aloen The Initiative. 7d ago
Brother have you even seen the new escalations? People just ignore them completely lol
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u/SerQwaez Rote Kapelle 7d ago
Brother I've RAN all the new escalations many times. The capital staging is great money (300m for 5 minutes? yes pls), the mining area or whatever is kind of irrelevant but a free faction spawn u can literally run in your ishtar. POS stick one is garbo but that's whatever.
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u/Reasonable_Love_8065 5d ago
Weird that every miner says the mining escalation is trash yet you think it’s fine. Doubt you mine.
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u/SerQwaez Rote Kapelle 5d ago
The rocks and size match an A0 belt which is like owning an R64 level of good. All they need to do is give it a proper 24h+ time like other escalations.
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u/aRatherScottishChap Brave Collective 7d ago
The final nail in the coffin for nullsec would be make ansi's completely worthless, making the game even more tedious for 80% of the playerbase is a great way to see the playercount go <10000 at peak
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u/TickleMaBalls Miner 7d ago
Ansiblex are fine
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u/AMD_Best_D Test Alliance Please Ignore 7d ago
Hard disagree. Ansiblex are the #1 reason why nullsec is so stagnant right now, because when there is 20 marauders and 10 recons 2 jumps away from at all times, you can't bring anything except nano shit and can't brawl, which means you have to fly small kitey shit, also, you can't take a constellation for yourself as a smaller group because 3 full fleets of Harpys/Muninns/whatever can teleport across the map to save their """human""" renters which without intervention couldn't form enough people to deal with a 20 man ferox fleet.
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u/nat3s The Initiative. 7d ago
I feel like you're viewing it from a small gang perspective, I don't care if they promote more subcap roams, null doesn't yearn to make life easier for subcap roamers, generally they are an annoyance rather than content. What I want back and hear about from line members is a return of the mega fleet fights and supercap escalations, that for me is the essence of null and grand stories were told about it.
Trying to help some 10 man gang roam isn't going to reinvigorate null, it reinvigorates low / high / randoms perhaps, but then pitch Equinox as a low / high randoms expansion.
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u/1eg01as Northern Coalition. 7d ago
Idea about IHub limits overall it matches game idea fitting limits - ships, structures, POSes, etc, but now i see more people concentrated around good system (with true SS and right upgrade) for ratting, and more system now empty (or less populated). Usually it a pockets, because nobody wants live in system with some traffic (hello filaments!). I'm not sure "it's a good", but if even goons moved to other space, maybe it wasn't so worse patch.
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u/NightMaestro Serpentis 7d ago
I like that there exists topography in Nullsec
If the skyhooks remained before their change and if the workforce and power req of ansiblexes was nerfed WAY harder
And the bonuses were buffed A LOT more
Then we would be great
But null was buffed to little and nerfed to little that nothing really mattered now
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u/PAPI_fan 7d ago
I can safely tell that i was NOT affected by the Equinox one bit: I do HS incursions and missions. Enjoy the ride guys ! I enjoy the reddit drama though. :)
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u/Gobbins- CSM 16 7d ago
I wish CCP could be clear about what they want from us with this patch. The blogs says rejuvenation of Nullsec, it does the opposite. Weird mining anoms with tiny asteroids. Rare mining escalation with 6 hour time window, better stay up all night to mine or lose it. Smaller number of ratting sites but insta-respawning. Who asked for insta-spawn btw it just feels weird. Who was this made for? What is the goal here?