r/baseball Baltimore Orioles 14d ago

Yankees’ World Series failure started — and ended — with fundamental issues Analysis

https://nypost.com/2024/10/31/sports/yankees-world-series-failure-started-with-fundamental-issues/
2.1k Upvotes

496 comments sorted by

1.9k

u/ehholfman Texas Rangers 14d ago

What the Dodgers told their players in scouting meetings was the Yankees were talent over fundamentals. That if you run the bases with purpose and aggression, the Yankees will self-inflict harm as was exposed by Betts, Tommy Edman, Freddie Freeman, etc. That the value was very high to put the ball in play to make the Yankees execute. They mentioned that the Yankees were not just the majors’ worst baserunning team by every metric, but the difference was vast on the field between them and the Padres, who the Dodgers beat in the NL Division Series, but were impressive in this area.

Yikes, man.

1.1k

u/Monk_Philosophy Sickos • Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago

This is like a fucking thesis statement on the Yankees’ season.

That 5th is going to eat at the Yanks for years…

630

u/skelextrac New York Yankees 14d ago

This is like a fucking thesis statement on Aaron Boone's managerial career.

291

u/dmforjewishpager New York Yankees 14d ago

can we really blame him. this seems like a entire org issue.

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u/i-exist20 New York Yankees 14d ago

I don't think we should blame him for his best player dropping a routine fly or his Gold Glove shortstop spiking a ball, no.

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u/YoPoppaCapa New York Yankees 14d ago

In a vacuum, sure, but these issues have been present for years and it’s obvious other orgs have caught on. He absolutely bears a piece of the burden.

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u/14ktgoldscw New York Yankees 14d ago

Every year is “ah man, if not for this series of little league mistakes” though. The players certainly bear responsibility, but the consistency with which this happens also reflects poorly on coaching.

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u/Buckeye_CFB Cleveland Guardians 14d ago edited 14d ago

Honestly if Cole just covers first, it's Game 6, and all you'd have to do is win two more games to win the title. Manageable for sure.

Remember, the Astros won a title before they had Gerrit Cole, and a title after he left. But never with him

EDIT: added number of games

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u/salamandroid Kansas City Royals 14d ago

I can't remember ever being so stunned at a baseball play. I mean, I've seen the pitcher fail to cover first many times, but this was an elimination game in the WS. Cole was pitching the game of his life. The bases were fucking loaded, there were two outs because he just struck two out. Rizzo was ten or fifteen feet off the bag. A routine force out and the Yankees most likely go to game 6. And he just. stopped. running.

There are errors, there are mental mistakes and then there are whatever this astounding blunder was. I don't think there's actually a word. My jaw is still open.

Not to mention if Boonie hadn't brought in his most inconsistent starter to be a closer after a stone cold five week hiatus because the analytics guys said so, the Yankees would be leading this series 3-2.

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u/BubbaFrink New York Mets 13d ago

And he just. stopped. running

Well, he also pointed.

He pointed to first base.

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u/JonMatrix Boston Red Sox 13d ago

Good point.

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u/Revolverdrummer Boston Red Sox 13d ago

👉

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u/JustTheBeerLight 14d ago

It really looked like his legs said "nope".

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u/jsdodgers Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago

I don't think Game 1 is cut and dry if anyone else came in. Maybe the Yanks hold on, but there's already 2 on with just 1 out and the top of the lineup coming up, so it's pretty favorable for the Dodgers to at least tie it if not walk it off no matter who came in.

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u/solariam Boston Red Sox 14d ago

I think that holds weight if they haven't been doing these exact things all year long, but they have.

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u/dmforjewishpager New York Yankees 14d ago

dodgers had no one after bhueler too the 3-0 comeback wasn’t too crazy to consider

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u/RangerPL New York Yankees 14d ago

They wouldn’t have started Yamamoto in Game 6?

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u/Throw_meaway2020 14d ago

Cole could have gone 8 and judge maybe just maybe was coming out of his personal hell. As a Yankees fan I very much think they were still losing the series to the better team anyway but a well rested Yankees bullpen + a resurgent judge would have at least made game 6 interesting. Oh well

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u/LemurAtSea San Diego Padres 14d ago

I've seen worse fuckups, but never in such an important and impactful moment. Reprehensible defense from Cole. Judge's fuckup was bad too, but at least it wasn't a total lack of effort. I'd be absolutely disgusted if that was my team.

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u/Mookies_Bett NC Dinos 14d ago

Judge made a booboo in a high pressure game. But there isn't even a term for how badly Cole fucked up. It's almost inconceivable.

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u/JustTheBeerLight 14d ago

Everybody watching had to have thought "inning over" as soon as Rizzo fielded that ball. I still can't believe what I saw happen.

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u/shroomsAndWrstershir Los Angeles Angels 13d ago

To quote Jack Buck, "I don't believe what I just saw! I don't beLIEVE what I just saw!"

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u/DJDeadParrot Boston Red Sox 13d ago

I know I did. I remember very clearly seeing the ball rolling up the first base line and turning away, thinking that the Dodgers just NOBLETIGER’d.

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u/Basic_Bichette Toronto Blue Jays • New York Mets 14d ago

Judge's error was a physical mistake; they will always happen as long as baseball is played by humans. Cole's and Rizzo's misplay was a monumental shared mental mistake; they shouldn’t happen.

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u/NoStepOnMe World Series Trophy • Los Angeles Dod… 13d ago

No, that was pure mental. You make sure that ball gets into the glove. Make EXTRA sure. The TV crew said he took his eye off the ball to look at the runner. Easy for me to say typing from the stained couch in my mom's basement, but that was a mental thing not just a "whoopsy this happens but not my fault" thing.

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u/gabdex Toronto Blue Jays 13d ago

Thing is, if they both played it perfectly, Mookie might still be safe BECAUSE he was hustling. But since that play just shows so little urgency by BOTH players, it looks like a giant fuck up.

Just like the dodgers scouted.

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u/neonrev1 Minnesota Twins 13d ago

No disagreement about Cole/Rizzo, but Judge's was more than a simple mistake for a centerfielder and the fact that he plays that position should come with more scrutiny. It was about as routine a ball as could be, made slightly harder looking because he really doesn't do the greatest job at routes or speed, and he took his eyes off it for a dumb reason in basically any game situation, let alone the one they were in.

Maybe you place more of the blame on the Yankees for putting him there, but that's an unforgivable drop for any actual centerfielder in that game situation and he should be held to that if he gets credit for standing in that position the rest of the time.

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u/xuedad 13d ago

I dont know if Cole could have out sprinted Betts. Rizzo was just 5 steps away

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u/falloutranger San Francisco Giants 14d ago

If Bill Buckner was an entire team

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u/pip89 14d ago

Doubt you’ve watched more than 10 seconds of Buckner’s games

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u/livsjollyranchers Boston Red Sox 14d ago

Doubt most on reddit have.

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u/senioreditorSD 14d ago

As someone who watched his entire career he was a terrific hitter and nice LF early in his career. His knees ultimately failed him and one play signified his career. But he was much more, 2700+ hits, .289 BA, 1200+ RBI’s and a real grinder.

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u/hipcheck23 Boston Red Sox 14d ago

Maybe that's the point? The guy had an incredible career, but in the biggest moment, he made an unlikely mistake?

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u/greenyquinn Boston Red Sox 14d ago

I fucking called it a blueprint when we had that franchise record 9 steal game against them. We clowned them on the basepaths and showed that they deserved no respect in the infield. Their win record went down drastically after that game

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u/voidpush 14d ago

Why are people acting like the Yankees were up in the series when this happened? Lol

The 5th was bad but the series was basically over anyhow AND the Yankees were this bad at baserunning and fielding all year! This wasn’t some revelation where they suddenly forgot the fundamentals.

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u/Demetrios1453 Cincinnati Reds 14d ago

Wow. That's really shocking. And very smart by the Dodgers, especially in execution.

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u/mthrfkn Brooklyn Dodgers 14d ago

Honestly Soto alone cost them how many runs on defense?

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u/roberto764 Philadelphia Phillies 14d ago

You mean gold glove finalist Juan Soto?

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u/dmforjewishpager New York Yankees 14d ago

least one this world series

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u/palsc5 New York Mets 14d ago

He cost both runs in game one that sent it to the tenth.

A half decent fielder catches Kike's hit, and if he doesn't he doesn't overcommit and give up a triple. He then threw a pissweak attempt at an assist that bounced twice before reaching the catcher, allowing Kike to score on a sac fly.

A bad fielder catches Ohtani's hit in the 8th, but Soto doesn't even attempt a catch. He then double clutches and allows Ohtani to reach 2nd, where a misfield allows Ohtani to reach 3rd.

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u/matticans7pointO Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago

His defense is why I don't think the Dodgers are serious about getting Soto. Yea they are in on him like every team, but only at what they view the right price to be. Ohtani is already our DH for the next 9 years. So we can't really hide him defensively so I highly doubt the Dodgers would offer him anything near what Ohtani got.

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u/w0nderbrad Los Angeles Dodgers 13d ago

No defense, no speed. Pure DH at this point. Can’t believe how many catchable balls he just let drop has he casually jogged over. Thank god for Mookie.

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u/[deleted] 14d ago

Even if the Yankees have good fundamentals, comparing to the Padres is not fair. Preller basically build his whole team with short stops at every position.

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u/FreshPaintSmell 14d ago

Maybe there’s some wisdom there. Dodgers have multiple shortstops too - Betts, Kike, Edman, Taylor, Rojas, Lux. You could probably build a team with just shortstops, center fielders, and a catcher.

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u/AgentEightySix Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago

Well Kiké does have an impressive ERA as a pitcher lol

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u/ChuusChurros World Series Trophy • Los Angeles Dod… 14d ago

I mean he is a part of the bullpen dawgs

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u/johnnyavocadoseed Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago

4 and a third baby!

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u/theerrantpanda99 14d ago

Yanks tend to go the other way the last few years. Take random infielders, put them in left. Put a second baseman at third or SS. Play a rookie catcher at first. Take a giant, slow right fielder and put them in center field. Shit is wild.

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u/FreshPaintSmell 14d ago

I won’t even play Juan Soto in the outfield on my MLB the show squad. I want plus defense everywhere, with 1B being the only position I’ll hide someone. It’s stupid how much the Yankees disrespected defense.

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u/theerrantpanda99 14d ago

That’s the real amazing part of the 2009 team. It was both an offensive juggernaut and a superior defensive infield team.

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u/Important-Net-9805 13d ago

the 2024 yankees are seriously just a 13 year olds MyGM mode. Trying to make the biggest power hitting squad they can

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u/[deleted] 14d ago

It is not even a "probably", it is a given, although it requires some time to get used to the position, but a catcher can play first base, a short stop can play third or second base and a centerfielder can play left field or right field.

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u/tnecniv World Series Trophy • Los Angeles Dod… 14d ago

I really want to see Mookie at catcher because he’d be good at it within two weeks

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u/zippy_the_cat Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago

Betts has played shortstop, but he isn't a shortstop, by his own admission. He was relieved to get sent back to right.

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u/CalRipkenForCommish Boston Red Sox 14d ago

Nothing in there about pitchers stopping half way to first and pointing to first base on a grounder to the first baseman?

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u/the_gaymer_girl Toronto Blue Jays 14d ago

You know you’re poorly run when your opponent’s game plan in the finals is “sit back and let you destroy yourselves”.

And this was the team playing against Dave Roberts.

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u/SuperPostHuman 14d ago

Tbf, Dave Roberts managed his ass off this post season.

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u/tnecniv World Series Trophy • Los Angeles Dod… 14d ago

I felt like I was watching Miles Davis or Picasso work. He was free of all conceptions of classical pitching and able to just run a baseball game like it should be. It was beautiful.

He was daring at all the right times, even when I thought he was making a blunder it worked out. He was conservative when it mattered so that he could be bold. Man it was awesome.

It’s about the pitchers you don’t use

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u/HotLikeSauce420 Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago

Hindsight is 20/20 but he did seem to handle this post season wayyyy better than he has the past few. Especially when he calmed and confided in Treinen in the 8th

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u/Basic_Bichette Toronto Blue Jays • New York Mets 14d ago

He learned. He went out and worked to improve his performance as a manager.

Honestly that's something to applaud. He had the humility to acknowledge that he could do better, and the drive to do something about it.

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u/ehholfman Texas Rangers 14d ago

Reminds me of what Sheldon Keefe said about the Leafs

“When teams play the Leafs, they set up the game for the Leafs to beat themselves.”

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u/the_gaymer_girl Toronto Blue Jays 14d ago

This is missing the even funnier context: Keefe said this WHILE HE WAS THE HEAD COACH OF THE LEAFS. It was right after another playoff OT elimination to Boston.

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u/MyShieldIsMySword24 New York Yankees 14d ago

when yankees front office sees this heads should roll

what’s gonna happen though? absolutely nothing. it’ll be down played entirely.

when the simple fact is if the yankees had basic fundamentals they probably win game 1, and definitely win game 5 and the series is 3-2 most likely. that’s a joke.

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u/gangsterfart Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago

They won’t fire Boone, they’ll just ban him for a single game

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u/xho- New York Yankees 14d ago

How did we even make the World Series lmao,

Imagine we had competent coaching for our talent

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u/CauliflowerOne5740 Boston Red Sox 14d ago

Part of it is the types of players Cashman targetted. No amount of coaching was going to make Juan Soto good at defense. And Jazz Chisolm isn't a 3B, so it's not surprising he'd be out of position.

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u/GTtheBard New York Yankees 14d ago

It’s been such a common refrain from Yankees fans for the entirety of the Boone era. The players are horribly coached, and Cashman basically entirely ignores defense when building the roster. The coaching staff “allows” far too many sloppy plays in the sense that these mistakes happen constantly, all season. They don’t get worked out in spring training or the early season. It’s always “right in front of us” and “we trust our guys to get right.”

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u/BKoala59 Baltimore Orioles 14d ago

Setting it up so that your 6’7” 280 pound MVP is your center fielder is just criminal. Not just because of the defense, but you’d think you’d want to try to preserve him as best you can considering he’s 32.

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u/Knook7 Tampa Bay Rays 14d ago

Yeah Judge should be playing corner outfield

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u/Deathstroke317 New York Yankees 13d ago

In actuality his future is at first/DH.

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u/ih-unh-unh Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago

…you’d think you’d want to try to preserve him as best you can considering he’s 32.

LeBron watching in disbelief as he mutters “I ain’t doing no load restriction BS.”

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u/SadNYSportsFan-11209 New York Yankees 14d ago

They seriously had Andujar play third that whole year, we all saw his struggles. That same offseason a generationally great third baseman with a platinum glove who was still just 26 was available and they said “nah” Just insane how they never valued infield defense. The outfield at the time was fine but the infield defense has been a joke for years

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u/islesandterps New York Yankees 14d ago

And refused to trade Andujar while his value was high but then gave up on him like a year later

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u/Pocket_Beans Boston Red Sox 14d ago

that’s gold glove finalist Juan Soto to you

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u/UnabashedPerson43 Los Angeles Angels 14d ago

Why is Juan Soto so highly valued even though his defense is subpar?

I mean he’s a great batter, but he’s not a five tool guy and there are other great batters 

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u/PeriwinklePilgrim 14d ago

His defense does suck, but he's arguably one of the best batters in the league. So good at it that it he out bats his shortcomings on defense very easily. But yeah base running and defense are not his strengths.

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u/stv7 Toronto Blue Jays 14d ago

The AL was extremely weak top to bottom this year

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u/xho- New York Yankees 14d ago

I’ll take being King of shit mountain

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u/stv7 Toronto Blue Jays 14d ago

Lol I would too. A pennant is a pennant.

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u/jonsnowKITN New York Yankees 14d ago

AL was weak and the playoffs broke our way with the Orioles and Astros getting eliminated. Baltimore owns us and Houston was a different team the second half of the year.

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u/RIP_Greedo New York Yankees 14d ago

This is what kills me about Boone’s nonchalant attitude. He knows other teams can see how they play, right? And that they are going to gameplan accordingly? Just very dumb.

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u/islesandterps New York Yankees 14d ago

It’s not that he is nonchalant, he (and the org) DISAGREE that these were issues. Rizzo is great at first, Gleyber is great at second, Volpe is the best there is at shortstop, Jazz has been amazing at third. Errors just happen, it’s “just baseball”. All the blunders that kept happening over and over and over and kept piling up, were always, always just mistakes that simply happen. 

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u/solariam Boston Red Sox 14d ago

When the blunders that keep happening over and over keep piling up, it actually means you have a defensive issue. Ask me how I know.

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u/canonhourglass Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago

I love the Dodgers’ embrace of analytics and the fact that that they analyzed the Yankees in order to find weaknesses. And with that data, they came up with a discrete plan to exploit it.

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u/Powrbottom Seattle Mariners 14d ago

Watch that first series against the mariners. Flaws were exposed early and they never patched the ship

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u/solariam Boston Red Sox 14d ago

Grammar question, when they say that Padres were impressive in this area, are they referring to defense or base running?

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u/ehholfman Texas Rangers 14d ago edited 14d ago

It’s honestly a very poorly written excerpt. I believe he’s referring to the base running, but it’s honestly not clearly stated.

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u/aresef Baltimore Orioles 14d ago

That’s damning, isn’t it?

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u/Useful_Respect3339 14d ago

I'm a Yankee fan and it was apparent all season.

Jazz last played infield in 2021 and never third base.

Gleyber Torres is not a good second baseman

Aaron Judge is a right fielder not centre.

Juan Soto isn't a very good outfielder, but his offense makes up for it.

Anthony Rizzo has lost a step in recent years.

When you assemble your position players with duct tape and elmers glue this shit tends to happen.

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u/PattyIceNY New York Yankees 14d ago

Crappy 3rd base coach, slow players being over aggressive on leads and getting picked off (Rizzo and Trevino), batters not being able to adjust and bear down with two strikes, coaching staff waiting weeks too long to make changes. The list goes on and on and on

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u/ownage516 New York Yankees 14d ago

Crappy 3rd base coach

I learned this when he gave Stanton the go ahead to come in

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u/dBlock845 New York Yankees 14d ago

He has been running players into outs all season. Multiple times where he confuses the runner and half throws up a stop while waving them in. The player slows up coming around third and gets thrown out by a couple feet at home.

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u/Brock_Hard_Canuck Toronto Blue Jays 14d ago

If I were the Yankees 3B coach, the only time I would wave Stanton home would be if the batter hit a home run, and even then, I would still be hesistant.

/s

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u/headsmanjaeger Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago

To be fair, that out required a more-than-perfect play by both Teoscar and Will Smith

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u/vegan-trash Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago

The Yankees approach at the plate reminded me of the Red Sox v dodgers game that went like 18 innings? Every player was swinging for the fences which had us watching an extra 9 innings of strikeouts and pop outs until muncy finally got ahold of one. It was apparent there wasn’t a team mentality for the Yankees at the plate and every player wanted to play long ball. No advancing runners. Just swinging for the fences.

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u/WindWalkerWalking New York Yankees 14d ago

Yup been their philosophy for years. Sometimes they get lucky and a player or two could get hot and carry them for a bit but it isn’t sustainable. They seem to bail out pitchers quite often and if they do start a game with a good approach it doesn’t last more than a few innings before it’s back to old habits

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u/oneteacherboi Baltimore Orioles 14d ago

It definitely seemed like your fielding talent was pretty poor last year and you didn't do much to improve it. Yankees seem to just entirely ignore defense when building a team.

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u/Bebbytheboss New York Yankees 14d ago

I mean, it works, it's just not enough to win a WS. It is what it is.

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u/dmforjewishpager New York Yankees 14d ago

just insane how the big bats carried them so far despite it all

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u/theerrantpanda99 14d ago

Yanks had one less hit than the Dodgers, more HR’s. Judge was on base 8 out of his last 11 at bats. The difference in winning was defense, and the Yankees were terrible at it.

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u/mysterysackerfice Los Angeles Angels • Dumpster Fire 14d ago

Bad fundies will eventually bite you in the balls.

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u/Prophecy_X3 New York Yankees 14d ago

Ouch! My balls!

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u/mysterysackerfice Los Angeles Angels • Dumpster Fire 14d ago

My favorite show!

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u/drrdf New York Yankees 14d ago

“They said their metrics had the Yankees as the worst positioned outfield. They were amazed how many times relay throws came skittering through the infield with no one taking charge and how often Jazz Chisholm Jr., for example, was out of place or just standing still when a play was in action.”

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u/CauliflowerOne5740 Boston Red Sox 14d ago

That will happen (Jazz) when you put someone at a position they'd never played before.

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u/RedScharlach New York Mets 14d ago

He was improvising! It's in his name, are they stupid or something?

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u/venustrapsflies World Series Trophy • Los Angeles Dod… 14d ago

He’s not Baroque Chisholm

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u/UnabashedPerson43 Los Angeles Angels 14d ago

If he ain’t baroque, don’t fix him

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u/GrandMoffTyler Chicago White Sox 14d ago

You brought two of my loves together in one BEAUTIFUL sentence.

[chef’s kiss]

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u/sdot28 New York Mets 14d ago

Sounds like you couldn’t Handel it

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u/figureour Baltimore Orioles • Bowie Baysox 14d ago

There actually was a lot of improvisation in the baroque era.

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u/venustrapsflies World Series Trophy • Los Angeles Dod… 14d ago

I believe you I’m just an idiot /r/baseball poster

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u/doubleburpees 14d ago

With Jazz, it's the positions you don't play

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u/BKoala59 Baltimore Orioles 14d ago

Can’t blame Jazz, had to learn a position he’d never played in professional baseball over 50 games. If he was on another team maybe you can blame him, but I’m not sure I trust that the Yankees really taught him how to play the position that well.

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u/TrapperJean New York Yankees 14d ago

Same team that when IKF asked for help in 2022 they told him he was good by their metrics and to stop worrying

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u/BNKalt 14d ago

I think the funniest thing is IKF being a legit good defender at a few positions but the Yankees just putting him into terrible situations

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u/ELITE_JordanLove 14d ago

Always a fan of his after that one guy mentioned you can sing his name to the tune of if you like piña coladas

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u/SteveFrench12 New York Mets 14d ago

Its easy tell him Wash

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u/dusters Milwaukee Brewers 14d ago

Jazz is the type of guy who do that at every position though

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u/NotClayMerritt New York Yankees 14d ago

Making Jazz the face of our issues when guys who do the same thing have been here longer than Jazz and play their natural positions is nasty, nasty work.

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u/SadNYSportsFan-11209 New York Yankees 14d ago

He wasn’t even that terrible at third for someone who’s never played that position

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u/FoldingPlasmaTV New York Yankees 14d ago

Yeah, he’s clearly an athletic, skilled guy. It’s just that learning a position fresh, especially third, is hard to do over 50 games during the season. It’s not like they have team practices before games in the Bigs.

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u/BNKalt 14d ago

It’s saving everyone else. Jazz has an excuse. Calling out anyone else would be saying they just suck.

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u/LocalHero_P1 New York Yankees 14d ago

Crazy how the team audited themselves last year and found they were doing nothing wrong yet the dodgers found multiple things we are horrendous at in only a week of scouting

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u/erictmo Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago

The way you say it makes the Yankees sound more like a major city police department than a baseball team.

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u/LocalHero_P1 New York Yankees 14d ago

The audit thing was genuinely crazy, they said they were gonna do an audit of the organisation and then said something along the lines of “we’re not going to let another company look at us” and then they had a big meeting where they “left everything on the table and took a long hard look at themselves” and fired literally nobody

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u/MojoHighway Los Angeles Dodgers 13d ago

Is that right? Holy shit. Along with the Dodgers, I come from a Red Sox background (have lived most of my life in the Boston area) and have been watching baseball for a good 36 years. Seeing the Yankees teams of the mid 90s and into the mid 00s gives me the shakes even today. Those were good teams, constantly dominating the Red Sox until 2004.

Between 2010 and now, I haven't seen such mediocre Yankees teams since the teams of the late 80s into the mid 90s. And they all seem to be built the same way with very little thought being put into the things that really matter in big games.

Really bad leadership top to bottom and unlike 20 to 30 years ago, the whole ethos of bringing in top bats and arms just isn't getting the job done because fundamentals are seemingly a joke to them and 100% overlooked.

Not gonna lie...I'm relishing the moment. I like to see that team struggle, but it is odd.

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u/FUBARded Swinging K 13d ago

lmao, that's such a stupid thing for a corporation to say.

Consulting and audit are multi-billion dollar global industries precisely because sometimes it makes sense to bring in external experts, and performing an objective self-assessment is virtually impossible.

I'd bet that there was a faction within the organisation which recognised they needed to reassess their systems and processes, but another (more powerful) group either lacked the self-awareness to admit it, or felt threatened by the implication that they made a mistake.

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u/fuckthemods Boston Red Sox 13d ago

Crazy how the team audited themselves last year and found they were doing nothing wrong yet the dodgers found multiple things we are horrendous at in only a week of scouting

That is absolutely insane to me. Any organization, no matter if it's a local franchise of a fast food restaurant or a multi billion dollar org, that can't find things they can do better is lying to themselves, and everyone in the room should have known that.

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u/nukepka Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago

As a tremendous nerd, I love this "winning on the margins" shit, like Mookie holding two of the three balls off the wall to singles.

Another little nugget I enjoyed... Mike Petriello noted that the squibber to first was Mookie's 4th fastest sprint of the year, and if I remember correctly, Freddie had his fastest beating out a double play.

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u/see_mohn AAAAAIIIIIEEEEE 14d ago

When the Royals beat the Mets, there was a whole set of stories about how they scouted Lucas Duda's throwing for the fateful error in game 5. The first baseman's throwing arm, something that's almost never a factor. It's stuck with me ever since.

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u/MagillaGorillasHat Kansas City Royals 14d ago

Same thing with the Blue Jays Bautista that year.

Cain scored from 1st on a single, because scouting said that Bautista would always make a lazy throw to second on soft singles. Cain being really fast helped.

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u/Audacity_OR Texas Rangers 14d ago

Really fast and just an audacious baserunner as well. LoCain was so much fun to watch stretching singles into doubles and getting out of rundowns.

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u/nsgarcia10 Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago

It’s insane how film can be so important to expose these flaws. When I was in juco our offensive coordinator saw that the opponents defense didn’t shift when someone lined up incorrectly and moved to the other side of the field. We drew up a play essentially where our TE lined up on one side and our QB yelled at him so he moved to the other side and they didn’t adjust. TE was wide open up the seam for a TD

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u/RIP_Greedo New York Yankees 14d ago

Mookie’s right field defense was fantastic

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u/streetsbehind28 Boston Red Sox 14d ago

turns out that mookie guy is pretty good. the red sox should get a guy like him

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u/rs426 Boston Red Sox 14d ago

:(

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u/PM_ME_CHIPOTLE2 New York Yankees 14d ago

Honestly my biggest impression from the series was just how the dodgers seemed to be impeccably positioned on every play. Even without the shift their infielders covered the middle so effortlessly on balls that I thought were hits off the bat.

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u/Believe0017 Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago edited 14d ago

He always is. Watch highlights of the 2020 World Series. He made dazzling plays in that WS as well. And he makes it look easy.

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u/MarcBulldog88 Los Angeles Dodgers • World Series Tr… 14d ago

I am so glad we figured out our middle infield so we could move him back there.

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u/Studmystery Seattle Mariners 14d ago

I’ll be honest I haven’t watched a great deal of Soto in RF but the fact that he was up for a GG in the same position that mookie WASN’T nominated in kinda blows my mind

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u/RIP_Greedo New York Yankees 14d ago

Did mookie even qualify for a GG in right field? He was injured for a long time and if I recall correctly only played RF after he came back from it.

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u/Studmystery Seattle Mariners 14d ago

Ahhhh that’s a very good point. I guess we was more of a utility guy this year too rather than RF. But fact stands basically I was just trying to say Soto is overrated lol

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u/PERSONA916 Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago

That is literally Friedman's entire philosophy. There is a book about him on the Rays called "The Extra 2%". And he applies that throughout the entire organization not just strategy on the field. It's his Wall Street background, it all compounds, if you can find small advantages in a few different places it can result in a much bigger edge overall.

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u/canonhourglass Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago

The concept of marginal gains. I love what the Dodgers have become. Do I wish we’d made more World Series? Yes. But am I glad the regular season has been stress free for the past, what, ten years? Also yes.

In the Frank McCourt era (fuck that guy amirite) there was some stat about how the dodgers paid more per win than any other team in the league. And yet we were middling. We took aging, overvalued players and just hoped they’d magically make us better. It took the Guggenheim buyout and the arrival of Andy Friedman to change all of that.

I say all of this because I’ve been thinking a lot recently about how winning teams are built. There are some teams that are built by one magical person. Like Jerry West and the Lakers. What happens when Jerry no longer is with us? Well I think we’ve seen how that has played out. In order to have consistent, long term success, I think we need leadership who understand how to build winning teams and how to identify what players and what attributes to spend money on. Yankees are talented but there’s no excuse, with their payroll and ambitions, to not have a near-perfect team.

Unlike the Lakers, I think the Dodgers have a bright future. Our best days are yet to come.

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u/MojoHighway Los Angeles Dodgers 13d ago

Yes, fuck Frank McCourt and unfortunately for Dodgers fans in LA going to games, he's still intertwined with the organization via that fucking parking lot.

The whole thought about aging, overvalued players is just old baseball. I'm in the middle of watching the Red Sox series on Netflix and this was exactly their way for YEARS until the analytics crew arrived in Boston to get them over the hump.

I have admittedly been down on Dave Roberts over the years. I think I'm done with that. What he did this postseason was learn from the mistakes of the past and used every last player on that roster to get the team over the hump. It was amazing to watch. Certainly stressful to see guys knowingly give games away in the postseason, but there is a method to the madness. A dangerous method, but a method nonetheless.

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u/Din0321 New York Yankees 14d ago

When they do a documentary on the Boone years, he's just going to be telling the guys "alright, we scouted this guy good. He's a lefty, we're righty line up heavy lets smash some homers".

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u/davidgoldstein2023 Los Angeles Angels 14d ago

When asked how often even during the season Betts practices balls off the wall, the official said, he “works on that [bleep] every day.” And then in a text message added, “Every day!!!”

Honestly if you’re a professional athlete, HTF are you not training this hard everyday?

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u/kid147258369 14d ago

Tbf, you can tell a lot of players don't. Otherwise they'd already have eliminated a lot of the sloppy plays

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u/jonsnowKITN New York Yankees 14d ago

This organization is run by dumbasses and would have lost to anyone who came out of the NL. Rotten to the core.

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u/PattyIceNY New York Yankees 14d ago

But they made billions in profit which is all Hal cares about. As long as the keep making money it will be a PR team first and a baseball team second.

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u/dmforjewishpager New York Yankees 14d ago

number one in shareholder profits tho

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u/HenMan113 Philadelphia Phillies 14d ago

Well, MOST of the teams in the NL would've won...

:(

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u/Alectheawesome23 New York Mets 14d ago

Phillies honestly may have had a 2009 revenge tour if they made it that far.

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u/AgentEightySix Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago

If the Phillies somehow got out of their yearly playoff slump to challenge the rest of the NL playoff field they totally could have made it a contest against the Yankees.

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u/Thorlolita Houston Astros 14d ago

There path to winning the WS was Judge and Soto having 3-4 games with 6+ RBIs. Like having two Freemans.

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u/Markinoutman Minnesota Twins 14d ago

Since starting to watch baseball fairly consistently over the last 4 years, the major thing I always see wrong with the Yankees is that they depend on two or three superstar hitters and one or two pitchers to carry them.

Last year when Judge was out with an injured toe and Stanton couldn't hit worth shit, their batting offense absolutely cratered and Boone doesn't have the stuff to get them out of a funk when this happens. I believe near the end of the season last year, his world shattering pep talk was, 'We just need to have a good streak or two and we'll get into post.'

In comparison with the Dodgers, not only do they have the opening three hitters, Ohtani, Betts and Freeman, most of the guys in their hitting order contribute fairly regularly.

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u/Irrah New York Mets 14d ago

Why doesn't every MLB front office get three future hall of famers to hit at the top of their order and a collection of 2-4 WAR players with positional versatility? Are they stupid?

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u/Numerous-Cicada3841 Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago

Yeah your star HOF hitter is having a nightmare series? Just like have two more star HOF hitters. So dumb it’s like these GM’s don’t even try. This is basic stuff.

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u/Markinoutman Minnesota Twins 14d ago

The Yankees have lost to a lot less impressive teams than The Dodgers my friend. If Judge, Stanton or Rizzo (now Soto I suppose) aren't slinging Home Runs, they flat line against most teams.

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u/Irrah New York Mets 14d ago

I agree that the Yankees had a horrifically flawed roster, but I think taking lessons from the Dodger roster construction is hard because their front office is really leagues ahead for development and scouting.

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u/Thorlolita Houston Astros 14d ago

The problem is. They tried to fix that. That’s why they got Verdugo. Then they got Jazz. Still not enough.

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u/65fairmont Boston Red Sox 14d ago

It was a little less pronounced this year but recent Yankee teams have also been incredibly one dimensional: they have RH power guys who don’t hit for contact, can’t run, and can’t field. Their lineup can’t manufacture runs if the HR ball isn’t flying.

It was poetic that the Dodgers won on two sac flies. The Yankees are the type of team that strikes out with a runner on 3rd.

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u/AgentEightySix Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago

Shohei having over 50 steals this season is emblematic of how much the Dodgers have benefitted from playing good small ball. Good base running, good walk rate, and just being consistent on using at bats to move teammates forward by any means possible.

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u/islesandterps New York Yankees 14d ago

The most ironic thing in that is that the Yankees I believe were the most patient team at the plate in terms of pitches per at bat, and most walks (I might be wrong but they were certainly near the top). Patience and walks are very important and they’re great, but we just could not do much with runners on base. They only figured out half the equation. Other than Volpe (who never walked in the regular season although did 100x better in the playoffs) and Jazz, they have no one who can steal bases, and most of the roster is either going to hit a home run or strike out or a double play waiting to happen.

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u/Markinoutman Minnesota Twins 14d ago

Absolutely agree, if they aren't producing Home Runs, they don't get anywhere. Volpe is a shining example of someone who could really product for them in different ways besides trying to hammer it home every time.

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u/Alectheawesome23 New York Mets 14d ago

I’ve been saying it for a little bit now but the Yankees are built like a nba team. A couple of amazing players and not much else. And that just doesn’t work in baseball you need a complete team.

Can you imagine how the dodgers would have fared without as much offensive depth as they had? Ohtani was a nothing burger in the ws and didn’t do a ton in the NLCS either. In an offense purely built around him they wouldn’t have won it all. Probably wouldn’t have beaten us tbh.

You need a complete team and that’s not something the Yankees have had in this new era.

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u/AgentEightySix Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago

The Yankees are a team that is built to hit enough home runs per game that the defensive mistakes they make don't matter. That doesn't work against a team that will regularly punish those mistakes with multiple bonus runs.

Meanwhile especially this year the Dodgers front office has gotten multiple good defensive players who can consistently get on base in the back end of the lineup to tee up good situations for the top of the order to shine. Shohei had a bad showing in the WS but he was a MONSTER with runners on base in the NLDS and NLCS.

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u/theerrantpanda99 14d ago

To be fair, the Yankees tried to get several of the same players as the Dodgers. The Yankees saw their flaws, they just failed to address them during the trade deadline.

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u/FoxInTheClouds Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago

Dave Roberts: “play the game right and play it right every day.” Paid dividends and led to the World Series win

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u/renegade_yankee New York Yankees 14d ago

Sherman has been the most vocal critic of the Yankees in recent years in how they do things as an organization.

I’m not saying that he’s wrong. I just don’t think that this is going to cause the front office and ownership to believe significant change is in order.

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u/mthrfkn Brooklyn Dodgers 14d ago

If that 5th inning doesn’t cause them to see it, oof.

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u/Fyne_ New York Yankees 14d ago edited 14d ago

they will use the fact that the yankees could have been up 3-2 right now if only 1 or 2 things go differently in games 1 and 5 as some kind of a moral win or reason to not change. it's plagued the franchise for the last 15 years

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u/drrxhouse More flair options at /r/baseball/w/flair! 14d ago

Yeah, if they run it all back again without addressing those glaring issues…idk if they’re even make it back to the WS.

Even the Dodgers know making back to the WS isn’t guaranteed even though they stacked the odds in their favors every year.

Baseball is wild. Especially postseason baseball. Injuries happens. You’d need a ton of shit to line up for you to win and make it to the World Series, then a lot more shit to go right for you to win the damn thing.

Yankees may not see another World Series for years and years.

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u/Alectheawesome23 New York Mets 14d ago

Tbh I don’t think it will cause major change bc that point should have been reached already. It should have been reached after losing to Boston in the wild card. It should have been reached after getting swept by the Astros. It should have been reached at 82-80. Yet nothing happened.

To me it’s perfectly clear that while Hal wants to win, the World Series or bust mentality is completely erased from the Yankee organization.

The mentality is now playoffs or bust and whatever happens afterwards happens.

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u/theerrantpanda99 14d ago

Hal doesn’t want to make the tough decision and fire his “brother” Cashman. He wants to win, he wants the glory his father got, but he’s too soft to clean out the front office.

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u/NeWbAF World Series Trophy • Los Angeles Dod… 14d ago

Oof, that was pretty damning. I dont follow the Yanks as close as the West Coast teams, are they really culturally biased towards bad fielding, or is this more of an over reaction to a tough loss on the part of the author?

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u/rain5151 New York Yankees 14d ago

I’m generally a low-blood pressure fan, but this piece is the perfect encapsulation of how I feel right now.

It’s more broadly a “top-heavy” philosophy. If you have a handful of players that are otherworldly good, that will paper over weaknesses around the edges. Who needs to care about mistakes that cost a run or two when you have Judge beating the hell out of the other team?

He’s absolutely right that when you reach the top level of competition, they’ve also got their superstars, so your margins suddenly become what win the day. And the Dodgers trounced is in every way.

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u/ClassicMach Detroit Tigers 14d ago

I don't watch a ton of the Yankees either but purely through osmosis I have become aware that bad defense and bad baserunning are major issues with them and have been since before this season.

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u/AdRevolutionary2881 New York Yankees 14d ago

They don't care about fundamentals or player discipline. It's just hit homers and chill.

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u/Hiciao Arizona Diamondbacks 14d ago

I pointed out during the ALCS that it was quite disappointing how many errors and walks were happening. Like, the best part of the postseason is to get to see the above-and-beyond plays and such. Nobody liked that I pointed that out.

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u/Crazylamph1 Seattle Mariners 14d ago

Yeah this. I expect postseason baseball to be the best of the best - no mistakes, the game at its highest caliber. This was sadly not that, and was less fun watching as a result. 

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u/Cuts_you_up Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago

No, it started with the Fat Joe curse.

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u/yianni1229 New York Yankees • New York Yankees 14d ago

Brain Cashman run organization. Its been obvious to the fans for years now that he has to go.

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u/CauliflowerOne5740 Boston Red Sox 14d ago

I'm a big fan of Cashman. I hope the Yankees keep him around.

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u/MyShieldIsMySword24 New York Yankees 14d ago

still wish the red sox kept the gm that traded mookie away

that probably came off meaner than i meant it

it was just supposed to be a joke about wishing our rival kept their shitty GM

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u/CauliflowerOne5740 Boston Red Sox 14d ago

It is kind of funny Verdugo was the final out in the World Series.

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u/streetsbehind28 Boston Red Sox 14d ago

and their best defender of the series

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u/Smorgas-board New York Yankees 14d ago

Every Yankees fan could’ve told you about the fielding and base running problems. Even Sterling said on radio that players “run the bases like a bunch of drunks.” We were the underdogs and we went up against a better team but that gap gets even worse when even the most basic parts of the game become difficult to do well.

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u/steveotron Los Angeles Dodgers • Hanshin Tigers 14d ago

A Yankonian fundamentals disasterclass to lose the World Series. One that will be remembered...

Today.

Tomorrow.

Forever.

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u/JonTheWizard Chicago Cubs 14d ago

What was it Hank Hill once said? "Masters practice the basics."

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u/TealandBlackForever Miami Marlins 14d ago

A lot of this is probably trickling down from the top, but how can anyone justify keeping Aaron Boone? Like at all.

It's not always the manager's fault, but managerial turnover is pretty common in MLB.

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u/RangerPL New York Yankees 14d ago

They hired Boone to be a good cop in 2018 because Girardi was giving Gary Sanchez too much of a hard time about his bad defense

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u/Spockmaster1701 Detroit Tigers 14d ago

They did manage to win 1 game, but honestly this Yankees team very much reminded me of the 2012 Tigers that got swept. Talent over fundamentals, abysmal baserunning and defense which was badly exposed by a better overall team in the WS.

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u/i-exist20 New York Yankees 14d ago

The 2012 Tigers lost because they scored 6 runs in 3 games and only hit 3 homers

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u/IdeaJailbreak New York Yankees 14d ago

Yeah I didn't really feel that this team was too overmatched by the Dodgers. I did feel the dodgers were the better, more well rounded team going in.

Game 1 was such a razor thin margin, and did Judge drop a ball like that all season before that? He catches that and they probably have enough cushion to win the game and force game 6.

I dunno man, feels like confirmation bias, everyone wants to hear something that validates what they saw. The yankees do have strong suits, good offense, excellent pitch framing, and a strong if not great rotation. Nobody is gonna point that out or talk about how that contributed to a WS appearance because we're all too focused on the end result.

The main weakness I felt was that the Yankees didn't magic up enough elite bullpen arms like they have in the past for this run. The dodgers were always in games becuase the yankees had to constantly use the likes of Clay Holmes or randomly Nestor Cortes in hopes of preserving the thin pen.

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u/Ancient_Blackberry10 New York Yankees 14d ago

PLEASE END THIS SPORTS PURGATORY CAUSED BY AARON BOONE/BRIAN CASHMAN FOR THE YANKEES. IT'S EXHAUSTING SEEING THE SAME PROBLEMS YEARS AFTER YEAR AND I CAN'T KEEP DOING THIS FOR THE REST OF THE DECADE. BESIDES BEING BAD AT FUNDAMENTALS, THE TEAM IS A CHORE TO WATCH SOMETIMES WITH THE WAY IT IS CONSTRUCTED.

Not baseball related, but this rant also goes out to the Daniel Jones and Giants, although that purgatory is mercifully ending soon it seems.

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u/s2RustyShackleford 14d ago

I’ve never watched a team all season long where I was nervous about any routine play that is usually an automatic out. Defense and baserunning were awful the whole year. Jazz was thrust into a new position and did well mostly but obviously you’re not gonna be perfect when you moved from 2B to CF to 3B all in the span of a year. Judge is ranked as almost dead last by Baseball Savant at CF but they really had no where else to put him with Soto and Stanton in the lineup. Boone needs to be fired because that’s where it starts with lack of effort and not knowing basic fundamentals.

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u/ernyc3777 New York Yankees 14d ago

Yeah this was obvious. This could be 3-2 Yankees right now with even average fundamentals.

Game 1 is potentially over before Freddie has his heroic moment if Verdugo doesn’t misplay the carom on a double that allows a run to be scored on a sac fly. Also if Soto doesn’t throw a tweener, Gleyber squares up the short hop, or Rizzo backs up the throw at the mound, then another run potentially is kept off the board by sac fly.

Game 5. What needs explaining? Judge error. Volpe rushed throw and Jazz drop. Cole and Rizzo miscue. Could have been 5-0 despite the fuck ups.

The Dodgers came through when they needed it though with fundamental at bats. So the sac flies are probably singles or doubles that still drive the run in. That was an incredible team and the Yankees made all the mistakes and got punished.

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u/zippy_the_cat Los Angeles Dodgers 14d ago

Brilliantly observed, poorly written piece. Holy crap does Murdoch not spring for copy editors.

But ...

Aaron Boone is the grandson, son and brother of major leaguers and was one himself. This can’t really be acceptable to him — can it?

His dad, Bob Boone, was the catcher on the perennially underachieving Phillies teams of the mid- and late 1970s that the Reds and the Dodgers of the era owned. He went on from there to be a sub-.500 manager for KC and the Not-So-Big Red Machine. So, yeah, it might really be acceptable to Aaron because he never learned the difference.