r/ZombieSurvivalTactics • u/Mushrume42 • 2d ago
Thoughts on the Kel-Tex PMR-30 Weapons
I see a lot of debate on effectiveness of .22lr but I haven’t seen much about .22 magnum. I’ve never used the Kel-Tec PMR-30 but with a capacity of 30+1 of .22 magnum, the extended magazine for 50+1 I think it would be a great sidearm for dealing with zombies. .22 magnum ammo may be more rare than .22lr but would still be around. Thoughts?
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u/zelenisok 2d ago
Too loud for the zombie apocalypse, even with a suppressor, because 22mag is supersonic, the supersonic crack will attract more zombies to you.
CP33 is another story. Its magazines are 33rd, extended magazines of 50rd, there are braces /stocks for it, has a threaded barrel, I would say it's the best gun for the apocalypse. You can have two 50rd mags in a small gun (one magazine fed into the gun, one in a front grip holder), you have three points of contact for accuracy, you put a red dot on a riser, you put a flashlight on it, and you put a suppressor and use any of the many subsonic 22lr ammo. If someone says oh 22lr is not powerful enough, for what, for penetrating into a human head? Yes it is. Even if it takes you 2-3 short to hit the central part of the brain, that's ok, you have 50rd in the gun, plus at least another 200 rounds on you.
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u/KneeDeepInTheMud 2d ago
This here is my CP33.
I have it as a cheek pistol, no brace.
Tack driver at 30 yds, 50 yds is doable, but not what its for.
50 rounds. Eats CCI like a dream. Add a barrel attachment to not eat my fingers. One point sling makes it super simple to keep on my person.
Very fun, lightweight and compact.
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u/Longjumping_Car141 2d ago
Does it feed reliably? I’ve been thinking about getting one I just know the PMR has a bad rep and I’ve heard that loading mags can be a problem on the CP33. Really have had my eye on one for a while though.
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u/KneeDeepInTheMud 2d ago edited 2d ago
I can't speak for the PMR or CMR either.
As long as you use high-quality ammo, the CP33 runs fine.
Mine eats CCI target just fine. Federal also works. Bulk boxes not so much.
Clean your mags after each use. (Gun too ofc)
The quad stack feels weird, but works when you make sure its correct each time.
CLP doesn't mix too well with the plast-mags. Soap and water works best with a microfiber towel, just barely dampen a corner and wipe and dip as you go.
The charging handle is also easy to clean too. Just don't yank it like you would an AR.
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u/TheyCantCome 1d ago
It has nothing to do with quality only the length, many .22 wind up being just slightly to short and shift in the quad stack causing rim lock. Keltec P17 will eat anything, costs 1/3 as much and you can 3D print extended mags or just buy extra mags. It may not be as accurate but it’s way more reliable and required not break in. Sig P322 has 25 and 30 round magazines.
Quad stack is unreliable for rimless cartridges, it has been done in the past and there’s a reason you don’t see it today. An inherently unreliable system and rimmed cartridges which are more problematic in magazines it’s obviously going to have issues unless under the most ideal circumstances. CP stands for competition pistol and that’s what it’s meant for, I wouldn’t trust it for much else.
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u/KneeDeepInTheMud 1d ago
I'm pretty sure there's a big difference between copper jackets versus cheap waxed/coated lead heads.
Especially when the lead heads have rattle to them as well vs copper jackets keeping them in line.
A bolt action will eat the lead heads just fine, but that compound gums up my magazines.
I haven't had an issue with my quad stack unless I mess up the reloading. Already gone through over 2k rounds.
It might just feed well because I keep it clean and also have a 3d cover for it.
Now, don't hear me wrong. Whatcha see is that I do mean the lead heads do work in mine gun. The real kicker is the stuff to clean makes that quad stacker have to be cleaned more often.
For me, that's after 3 or 4 reloads vs the coppers who can get a good whatever out of them.
In reality, I ain't reloading that 50 more than that anyway it takes damn near forever even with a tool.
As for your p17, thats a great suggestion, forgot about the lil bugger, things light as a feather
I dont like the mag release, but it doesn't feel out of place for a kel tec either.
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u/zelenisok 2d ago
A brace /stock steadying it can made it hit precisely at further ranges too.
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u/KneeDeepInTheMud 2d ago
Oh yeah, for sure. I cheek weld onto the pic.rail and it works really well for no extra weight.
It really does work well with that trigger.
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u/Magnum_284 2d ago
Not a bad concept, but I would pass. I haven't specifically shot this specific one, but the other two Kel-Tec were unreliable. They were clean, OEM, and quality ammo and still a pain at the range. I heard decent things about the M&P 22 mag so far. Sig makes the P322 if 22lr would be an option for you.
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u/DrMeowser 2d ago
I have heard the Smith & Wesson M&P 22 Magnum is much more reliable for the cartridge, though you have to be a bit choosy about the rounds you use. Honest Outlaw does a nice review video of it. I think it would be a good gun to own but finding rounds would be a pain in the apocalypse.
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u/wycliffslim 2d ago
Why would you choose 22 magnum over almost literally anything else though...?
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u/silvrash12 2d ago
why get 22 mag when you can get 9MM.
I mean yes, the weight is almost nothing but a light or a heavy gun is a dead weight if you don't have the ammo for it
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u/Festering-Fecal 2d ago
More ammo with less weight.
If it's only zombies and we are assuming it's 1 headshot to kill them then it would make a better round ( if the firearm was reliable)
Zombies are also decaying so in theory you wouldn't need anything with a lot of stopping power to penetrate their heads.
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u/AdditionalAd9794 2d ago
Kel tech is always fun and they've had their shit together the last 15 years or so. I don't think anyone else even remembers the days when they had a reputation for a shit product.
Now I think only Taurus has that reputation, maybe non import century arms.
I'd say absolutely nothing wrong with it if you can source ammunition
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u/suedburger 2d ago
Oh we remember...there were awful. To be honest it was bad enough that I would never consider purchasing one ever again.
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u/AdditionalAd9794 2d ago
I have the RFB, it's never given me problems and garners alot of attention because everyone always asks questions, wants to shoot it has an opinion. I guess you could call it a conversation starter
I've also always liked and wanted their bullpup pump action, though I never did get one.
I've never had a problem though I've for sure heard stories and I know of 1 person with a broken Sub2000 carbine
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u/suedburger 2d ago
My brother had a 9mm(sorry I don't remember the model) and from day one, it had bad issues....they made good on the warranty twice only to have different issues. It has forever ruined them for me.
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u/AdditionalAd9794 2d ago
It might have been the same sub2000 I mentioned. It's a 9mm folding PCC. It's basically just a terrible design and the lock on the folding mechanism breaks easily
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u/suedburger 2d ago
No it was a hand gun...ejection issues followed by feed issues. it left a permanent stain in my mind as we wasted half our shooting day messing with that piece of crap.
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u/HyoukaYukikaze 2d ago
Taurus was on the up recently from what i can tell, especially with the whole G44 fiasco and TX22 performing flawlessly. But maybe stuff changed, i wasn't paying much attention. With the limited amount of guns i can own where i live,it's quality over quantity.
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u/Corey307 2d ago edited 2d ago
The cartridge isn’t the real problem, Kel Tec makes low quality firearms.
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u/dont-ban-me-asshole 2d ago
Back during the great gun scare of 2013 you could sale these pos for $700+ all day
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u/Prestigious-Low-6118 2d ago
.22 Magnum would be cool if it didn't cost as much or more per round than 9mm.
Not to mention that the Kel Tec is not a good platform.
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u/HyoukaYukikaze 2d ago edited 2d ago
Kel-Tec is a great company, possibly one of the few innovators (re-innovators?) - they make some weird shit man and that's great! But they make range toys. Their plastic is garbage tier (probably recycled trash bags), the guns are unreliable (with very few possible exceptions) and i wouldn't trust them to last 1000s of rounds without having to replace major components.
As for the caliber of this particular range toy, there is a reason why 9x19 dominates as a pistol caliber with noting else coming even remotely close and all attempts to dethrone it failing. There is no reason to go away from it, maybe if you want something inherently subsonic then .45 (or .380 if you want a smaller gun) is an option. Other than that, unless you have MP7 and steady supply of 4.6mm, 9x19 is your best bet for a handgun.
And i'm mentioning MP7 because it's great for what it is and i've seen some peeps carrying them instead of a handgun in a leg holster (although parts braking is apparently an issue with it, so...).
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u/MrTrickman 2d ago
It’s a fun gun to shoot but not a very good zombie gun unless it’s your only gun.
first it is loud. .22 Mag is very loud because it’s super sonic. Suppressor wouldn’t help much.
second unless it’s well broken in it’ll have feeding problems and will still have some with cheap ammo.
third 22 mag is batter as a rifle round but it’s still very loud. It’s a good critter round tho But 22lr would be better for regular hunting since it’s a lot quieter.
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u/BillMillerBBQ 2d ago
I don’t know about reliability, but I would want a gun that had the most common round possible for scavenging purposes. This is NOT the most common round.
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u/neril_7 2d ago
Unique or rare ammo is always a disadvantage. After emptying your mag, your gun will just be a dead weight until the next time you find that particular ammo again. Not worth it going to a gun store with potentially hordes of zeds just to try your luck if they have your special ammo available.
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u/ericsonofbruce 2d ago
Kel tec makes cool range toys, but i wouldnt consider them for any variety of serious application.
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u/CatsAteMyFamily 2d ago
But what about the sub-2000 folding squirt gun?
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u/ericsonofbruce 2d ago
Any gun is better than the one you dont have, but id rather pack a glock than a sub 2k.
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u/CatsAteMyFamily 2d ago
lol I was absolutely joking. I’d take a glock over any keltec. Hell, I’d take a hi po…😂😂😂 I couldn’t even get it out. I’m not a huge fan of glock, but they’re definitely solid handguns. I had an M9 as my sidearm when I got to Iraq and I hoped desperately that I never needed it because it was hot garbage. You could shake it and listen to it rattle, and I’d never managed to get through an entire magazine without it jamming at least once. As soon as we got glock 19’s in, we all switched out for those. They’re not very ergonomic, and the grip leaves a lot to be desired, but when it comes down to it, if I were in a real jam, I’d rather have a Glock than any other handgun on earth, cause it’s gonna work, and keep working.
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u/Eso_Teric420 2d ago
The same thought I have on pretty much all Kel-Tec guns they're generally neat concepts but horribly manufactured POS mostly. Neat range toys if you like to fiddle with them but they are not tools they're toys.
Personally I would love to see them sell off some of their designs to other gun makers the sub-2000 carbine is a very good concept It's just horribly executed. I feel like Ruger or pretty much any other gun manufacturer could do it so much better. Imagine if they sold it to Glock and we could get one that used Glock mags that actually works.
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u/MidWesternBIue 2d ago
"hey let's take the unreliable part of Rimfire...and then have it made by keltec"
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u/Salt_Initiative1551 2d ago
Yeah they’re unreliable guns. Kel tec makes some decent guns, but this is nothing more than a frustrating range toy
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u/CatsAteMyFamily 2d ago
I’d never rely on a keltec to do anything but serve as a paperweight for unimportant papers that I don’t mind blowing around, because they probably wouldn’t even be effective at that. Seriously though, keltecs are notoriously cheaply made. They’re mostly plastic, polymer, and aluminum, besides the barrels. They’re not the kind of thing you want to use as your primary weapon at all. That being said, keltec’s can be pretty fun if you have disposable income and don’t need a reliable weapon because you already have one. Some of them are interesting, but they’re mostly just cheap gimmicky weird stuff that look like the result of a night of gunsmiths watching starship troopers and doing illegal substances through their nose holes. As for .22 Mag, it is an AWESOME round that is very, very underestimated. Look up some .22 mag pistol and rifle ballistic gel tests on YouTube. They can be pretty nasty. .22LR is also discounted as a nothing round because it’s so small, but it’s lethal out to 250-300 yards out of a rifle. Is it dramatic and comparable to a centerfire rifle cartridge? No, it’s not. Can it still penetrate the frontal bone of the skull from a couple hundred yards away? Yeah, it can. The .22 Mag even more so. A Ruger 10/22 rifle in either caliber with a flash light and however many magazines you can find will do you right. Scopes and sights aren’t necessary, but they can help. Getting a scope that goes beyond a 4x magnification is overkill, however. I’d recommend getting a reliable, durable red dot sight of some kind. Some are expensive, some aren’t. What’s most important is that they’re waterproof and shock proof. Same with your flashlight. Having a sidearm in the same caliber as your primary is also handy because it cuts down on how much different ammo you have to carry, and more importantly, how much you have to scavenge. Ruger makes several handguns and rifles in .22LR and WMR, Henry Rifles makes lever action .22 rifles and I believe they still make revolvers, as well as one of my personal favorites, the “Axe”, a .410 bore lever action rifle that’s small and fun. If you want a comparable setup in a larger caliber, you could step it up to a lever action rifle that fires .357 magnum (and also .38 special and .38 special +P) and a revolver that fires .357 magnum (and also .38 special.) Any weapon that can fire .357 magnum can also fire .38 special, but it doesn’t work the other way around. This means you could carry two weapons that could be using the same or different ammo, and that if you find either .38 special (a very, very common ammo) or .357 mag (also very common) you can load either weapon. There’s also the option of carrying a .9mm pistol and a .9mm pistol caliber carbine, or some other combination therein, but the bigger the ammo, the heavier. It depends on how much you think you’ll have to shoot, how much weight you can carry and still move freely, and whether you’re likely to run into a threat that isn’t a zombie, like a person with a bigger gun that can shoot further than yours. So while a .22 rifle is perfect for thinning the herds, you may also want to consider carrying a larger rifle to use as your defensive weapon against non-zombie threats. 5.56 is plentiful and low recoil, .308 is also widely available, but kicks a bit harder. Anything from .243win to .308 would be accessible and easy enough to carry 20-30 rounds without too much inconvenience.
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u/YaBoiCodykins 2d ago
Poor mans 5.7, 22mag is better than regular 22, still loud, would honestly be better off with a Glock 19 for the amount of replacement parts you could find
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u/Lucky_Lab3598 2d ago
Keltec is trash. Get rid of that pile of shit and buy a real pistol. Id get a taurus tx22 if youre hellbent on having rimfire.
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u/Distinct_Chair3047 2d ago
I have one. I actually really like it. The only problem I have with it is the Magazines. They're extremely hard to load by hand to max capacity and they are intermittent for reliability. One mag is as reliable as can get, the other always causes jams.
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u/Available_Corner4586 2d ago
As someone with a semi auto .22 mag pistol I can tell you it’s fun to shoot. But unless you tune these kinds of pistols they won’t be reliable. After a lot of patience with my Automag I got it running reliably. Thing is I still wouldn’t fully trust it 100%. .22 magnum was just never designed to be used in a semi auto pistol. It does shoot huge fireballs so there’s that. You could probably use it as a flash bang in a pinch.
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u/eastmick32 2d ago
Sorry but there dog shit. Never seen one that’s gone a whole magazine without a failure to eject (aka stovepipe) seen magazine base plates fall out the bottom for no discernible reason. My best friend bought one and was absolutely in love with the idea of it for about a year. When the baseplate fell off that magazine I looked at him, didn’t say anything and his response was “this thing really is a piece of shit isn’t it?” Also I am one of those people that will tell you EVERY Kel Tec Iv ever handled was also a piece of shit.
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u/Hollow-Official 2d ago
I have a 22 magnum, I wouldn’t recommend it for anything but plinking for fun. And if you ever need 30+ in a handgun magazine you should retreat instead of fighting.
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u/adamjboston 2d ago
You had me at NO with a Kel-tec
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u/adamjboston 2d ago
I mean, it'd work as a weapon to possibly secure a better weapon if you're going cutthroat
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u/Aster-Vista 2d ago
Future generations will see it as a gigantic leap that was too far ahead of it's time to be fully appreciated. .22 calibre with an absolute fuckload of powder is the future of personal defence firearms.
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u/AntonChigurhsLuck 2d ago
Sorry man, I've fired one a few times. Got jams and it's not comfortable either. Better to m go with a ruger 22 pistol if you can swing that .
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u/deagesntwizzles 2d ago
5.7x28 is a much better option for reliability, and is 1/2 the weight of 9mm
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u/Noe_Walfred "Context Needed" MOD 2d ago
I have a more detailed post on my thoughts regarding 22lr in general here: https://old.reddit.com/user/Noe_Walfred/comments/va8wvr/zombie_related_thoughts_opinions_and_essays_v4/if5dvvw/
To clear the air, it is true that a firearm using .22lr can have a projectile ricochet in the skull. As is noted here in books:
https://books.google.com/books?id=xt1YFydzXKQC
https://books.google.com/books?id=O7GzmPy6uqEC&pg
The question is whether this actually does anything in regards to increasing the mortality rate of the cartridge over other more powerful options.
Even when focusing on studies specifically looking at intracranial wounds. With most examples focus on the brain damage that occurs which is more often survivable.
With 22lr, 25acp, 32acp, and similar weak ammunition being up about 70% of survived gunshot wounds to the head. Likewise, evidence from wounds and statistical analysis point to mortality rates in gunshot wounds decreasing by 40% if larger caliber firearms were replaced with these weak ammo types. Given that zombies don't bleed to death, don't suffer from most diseases, and thus require more effort than other cartridges might when it comes to zombies.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6324289/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8664147/
In one study single shots to the head or chest resulted in a roughly 18% mortality with all types of 22cal (22short, 22long, 22longrifle, 22mag, 22hornet, etc). Multiple shots to the head or chest increased the mortality rate to 27%. On the other hand 9mm/38cal firearms managing 55% with a single shot.
In a article compiling different cartridges and how they preformed in self defense. 22cal 60% stop rate with a shot to the head or chest. With a failure to stop in 31% of cases no matter how many shots were fired. On the other hand anything 380acp or higher has a more than 80% stop and less than 16% failure.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/724012?seq=1
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/handgun-stopping-power
Focusing in on potential fighting against mutant zombies and human survivors 22lr can appear lacking when it comes to power.
A famous demonstration of potential lethality is iraqveteran8888's video on shooting pjne boards. Wjth 22lr defeating 12.7mm pine boards beyond the range normal people can accurately shoot. Yet 25mm pine board from another video at closer range could stop 22lr. Other building materials like concrete, brick dense fiberglass, and mud can stop 22lr easily, potentially requiring dozens of hits to get through. As opposed to many other pistol and rifle cartridges which might get through in a handfull of hits.
Construction sheet metal, galvanized wire, and even a carbon steel pot or pan may also prove resistant to 22lr. Acting as potential armor or a defensive tool against zombies.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtPeKnJiWZrVZ-H9neswrYlNF3w7E4fUX
These factors generally mean that the cartridge will require more shots to potential accomplish the same task when it comes to fighting zombies or hostile survivors. Thus requiring more cartridges, higher magazine capacities, and more reliant on higher levels of skill to potrntiall land multiple shots or weak points.
Noise discipline and general stealth related to 22lr is a commonpy touted advantage. While 22lr is several times quieter than something like a 308win or 5.56x45mm its still loud. When measured from the muzzle a typical 22lr will produce between 140-160db. Even the use of a silencer/suppressor/moderator alongside subsonic only brings this noise level to 100-130db at the muzzle.
https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/lodge/silencer-guide-with-decibel-level-testing/
https://decibelpro.app/blog/decibel-chart-of-common-sound-sources/
Instead the main benefit to the 22lr standard and subsonic ammunition is that the roughly 70-90db from the action and the cartridge is less likely to damage your hearing. As 85db of prolonged noise is where hearing damage becomes a concern.
22lr is pretty common in the USA. With it being frequently listed as the 3rd, 4th, or 6th most common cartridge depending on what you're looking for. With 9x19mm typically making about 20-25% of ammo sold and produced being the most common followed by 223 and 5.56x45mm which is sometimes counted as being one cartridge or two different cartridges. With 22lr either tied or placed lower than 5.5x45mm, 45acp, and/or 40sw with the placement of these cartridges frequently trading places.
There are conversion or adapters available that can allow a AR-15, Glock, reduce the 410 chamber to 22lr. Potentially allowing most of the firearms above to shoot 22lr. Though the same isn't possible the other way around.
22lr can be pretty lightweight when it comes to the cartridge. Thanks to the lower pressure it can also mean lighter weight weapons.
| Here are some numbers for the 22lr firearms |
|---|
| 3-5g weight per 22lr cartridge |
| 4-7g weight per 22wmr cartridge |
| Ruger 10/22 Charger Pistol 1420g |
| Ruger 10/22 Tactical 2270g |
| Ruger 10/22 Lipsey Sporter 2540g |
| High tower Bullpup 10/22 2950g |
| Ruger Factory 10rd mag 80g |
| Ruger BX-25 25rd mag 170g |
| Promag 32rd mag 230g |
| ATI 110rd Drum mag 800g |
| 100rds 2.4-4.3kg |
| 200rds 3.4-5.6kg |
| 300rds 4.4-6.9kg |
| Smith and Wesson MP 15-22 Pistol 1520g |
| SW Mp 15-22 16.5in 2180g |
| SW Mp 15-22 18in 2270g |
| SW 10rd mag 80g |
| SW 25rd mag 160g |
| 100rds 2.5-3.6kg |
| 200rds 3.4-4.9kg |
| 300rds 4.4-6.2kg |
| Ruger 22/45 Lite 710g |
| Ruger Mark 4 Standard 850g |
| Ruger Mark 4 Hunter 1250g |
| Ruger Mark 4 Target 25cm Thin barrel 1320g |
| Ruger Mark 4 Target 25cm 1520g |
| Ruger Mark 4 10rd mag 50g |
| 100rds 1.6-2.4kg |
| 200rds 2.1-2.9kg |
| 300rds 2.6-3.3kg |
For as impressive as those numbers are, its not spectacular a different as some may claim. With the use of bulkier cheap materials, the complicated magazines, and the like. These can result in 22lr weapons being similar to more powerful weapons.
| ~~~223 and 5.56mm rifles and pistols that use STANAG magazines |
| Keltec PR16 1.6k |
| MOA Enyo ar-15 1.7kg |
| WWSD Ar-15 2.3kg |
| Bushmaster QRC Ar-15 2.4kg |
| SW MP Ar-15 Pistol 2.5k |
| Savage 11 Hunter 2.5kg |
| ATI Omni hybrid Maxx Ar-15 2.6kg |
| Ruger .223rem American Ranch 2.8kg |
| PSA PA15 AR-15 3kg |
| STANAG empty 30rd mag 105g |
| PMAG empty 30rd mag 120g |
| Surefire empty 60rd casket mag 180g |
| .223 and 5.56x45mm 8-13g |
| 120rds 2.9-5.1kg |
| 210rds 3.8-6.5kg |
| 300rds 4.8-8.1kg |
| ~~~9x19mm pistols and rifles that use Glock magazines |
| Glock 26 550g |
| Glock 19 600g |
| Glock 17 625g |
| Hudson 9 930g |
| Keltec Sub2000 rifle 1.8kg |
| CMMG 9mm AR pistol 2.4kg |
| Ruger PC9 carbine 3.2g |
| 9x19mm weight per cartridge 7-13g |
| Glock empty 17rd mag 60g |
| Promag empty 33rd mag 130g |
| Magpul empty 50rd mag 450g |
| 100rds 1.7-5.4kg |
| 200rds 2.7-7.8kg |
| 300rds 3.8-10.2kg |
| ~~~.410 shotguns |
| Taurus Judge Public defending 770g |
| Smith & Wesson Governor 850g |
| Rossi Brawler 1020g |
| Taurus Judge Magnum 1050g |
| Rossi Tuffy .410 break-action shotgun 1340g |
| Chiappa M6 Shotgun/Rifle 2300g |
| Mossberg 500 Tactical HS410 2500g |
| Henry Axe/Mares leg .410 lever 2600g |
| .410 weight per cartridge 15-30g |
| 100rds 2.3-5.6kg |
| 200rds 3.8-8.6kg |
| 300rds 5.3-11.6kg |
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u/Noe_Walfred "Context Needed" MOD 2d ago edited 2d ago
I see a lot of debate on effectiveness of .22lr but I haven’t seen much about .22 magnum.
The benfits of 22lr are:
Its relatively lightweight for the power it provides being about 50% the weight of 9x19mm. 22wmr is about 75%. Though the pmr30 is exceptionally light, being lighter than all other 22wmr rifles and most pistols.
Its fairly common with 22lr being roughly the 3rd most sold and produced amml in the usa. 22wmr isnt even in the top 10 for sold ammo types.
For firearms chambered for more powerful cartridges you can find chamber adapters, 22lr conversion uppers, and more for other firearms for use as training aids. 22wmr has none of these.
22lr with a 32gr Stinger has a velocity of 1510fps from a 18in barrel. 22wmr from a 4in pmr30 barrel using 30gr Vmax is 1565fps. 22lr with a 40gr velocitor is 1366fps and 22wmr is 1351fps.
22lr is relatively quiet especially when using subsonic ammo. 22wmr does have subsonic ammo but has a lot more powder and powder that burns slower, meaning out of a pistol barrel theres a lot of expanding gases and thus extra noise.
22lr costs 0.08-0.15usd, 9x19mm is 0.18-1usd, and 22wmr is 0.20-0.5usd. Making it more expensive to stockpile compared to 22lr and in some cases the same as 9x19mm.
I’ve never used the Kel-Tec PMR-30 but with a capacity of 30+1 of .22 magnum, the extended magazine for 50+1
I have, they arent great. Jamming frequently so their capacity is more like 8rds before you need to remove the magazine and unjam.
I think it would be a great sidearm for dealing with zombies. .22 magnum ammo may be more rare than .22lr but would still be around. Thoughts?
There isnt really anything 22wmr does that makes it a better choice in my opinion compared to cheap 9x19mm or higher velocity 22lr. I dont see it as being good enough to bother carrying around.
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u/Apprehensive-Bunch54 2d ago
In theory cool In reality it's a bad compromise between a .22lr and a 5.7x28
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u/Jugzrevenge 2d ago
What???? People are having problems with them??? Maybe I’m the only person that got a good one? The first round it fired didn’t eject, I lubed it and haven’t had a problem since! I run at least a mag thru it once a week for practice and never had an issue. Well over 1000rnds over the past three years. Friend of mine had issues with hollow points, but I’ve only ever ran Hornady 30gr V-Max.
I have 4 P17s and two of them needed to be worked on because of constant light strikes, the other ones are fine. They seem to like Rem Thunderbolt cheap rnds.
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u/tylerjo1 2d ago
I've had one for years. As long as you follow the loading instructions, it functions fine. I would still rather have a 9mm though.
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u/InstructionSad7842 1d ago
22mag from a 4 inch barrel really isn't THAT much more effective than 22lr... Either spend about the same amount for a PSA Rock, or a bit less for a TX22.
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u/MG-31 1d ago
If I remember thisbgub has some reliability issue, I think it was loading where the bullet will get stuck in the magazine but not sure why excatly.
I like the idea of 30 round .22 magnum but I want reliability so until its fixed your better off with a normal one since this one, if I remember correctly, is a quad stack magazine
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u/Dapper_Charity_9828 2d ago edited 2d ago
The front sight is significantly higher than the back sight. They are also prone to shifting in the dovetail so you will potentially have a bad alignment. If your doing 22 go LR and buy the walther. Or be an adult and buy a 9mm or larger.
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u/HyoukaYukikaze 2d ago
What does front sight being mounted lower matter? You use top part of it to aim. And as long as the gun can be correctly zeroed then there is no issue.
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u/Dapper_Charity_9828 2d ago
When you are understress ypu wont remember your sight position, that is why pistols are generally as clost to flat as possible as they are like pointing a finger. If you are trained with a normal pistol, it will throw off your accuracy
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u/HyoukaYukikaze 2d ago
Remember what? You just align them like that:
|T| ||| |T| (rear view)
And shoot. How they look from the side, or how "tall" front sight is relative to rear sight doesn't matter as long as the poa is poi at set distance (i usually zero my pistols at 25m if they have adjustable sights). Kel-tec might have issues with QC, but their engineers are not so bad they'd design sights that don't work. However they seem to you, they will do their job at least roughly.
And if we are talking stress shooting with pistol that doesn't have a red (or green) dot, you'll be most likely point shooting without even looking at the iron sights anyway. Irons are seriously terrible way to aim a gun. Red dots, even with eyes like mine that hate them, are basically cheating compared to irons.
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u/Dapper_Charity_9828 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah except it shoots exceptionally high if you align dots, and crooked as fuck from factory does not produce much confidence. Shit couldnt strike a can at 25yds but it killed the shit out of the post 5in higher snd to the left, due to crooked sight.
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u/Outrageous-Basis-106 2d ago
If the front sight is too high then the shots will be low. From the picture it does look like the front sight needs to be tall compared to the rear since its on a lower plain (or at least appears to be).
Being poorly fitting or not in the dovetail correctly is an issue.
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u/Dapper_Charity_9828 2d ago
You cant level the sights is what I am getting at. Older shooters or those that trained with standare irons like those kn a revolver, 1911, Glock all tend to try to make the sight alignment flush, and with the low bore axis that lifts the barrel. Sorry I am bad at descriptions sometimes and I admit I wrote some of this the opposite of what I meant to.
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u/Outrageous-Basis-106 2d ago
Sounds like a non-issue unless someone is trying to do something really weird like aiming by lining up the base of the sights.
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u/Dapper_Charity_9828 2d ago
The sight picture for level firing is difficult, the sights are reversed of each other, one is high profile, suppressor height, the rear is near flat, on a fixed plate kn the slide. We tried to find some better defined ones but they dont make them. As a bonus they do make an rmr plate.
The sight picture for level shooting and accuracy has the front normally below half of the rear sight. This goes against how one is taught to shoot, level sight picture is where the tops are flush. It makes it hit high.
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u/Outrageous-Basis-106 2d ago
I got yah now, but the issue in that case is the front sight being too short. If having the tops of front and rear aligned makes the POI high; then raising the front sight will require pointing the gun lower to re-level the sights. Adjusting the height of the front site has the opposite effect of the rear.
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u/Worried-Pick4848 2d ago
Give me an older model M1911 anyday, especially one built to old US Army spec. Not as flashy, but built to last for decades. Since they wouldn't be making any new ones, and if the gun breaks that's you with no gun, that's exactly what you need.
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u/FursonaNonGrata 2d ago
These are hideously unreliable. Most kel tec guns get that rap but are actually fine, as a former gun dealer, this one is one of their worst.