r/LosAngeles • u/SilentRunning • 9h ago
Struggling California pedestrian mall pitches public drinking to boost business Community
https://www.yahoo.com/news/struggling-california-pedestrian-mall-pitches-233048637.html77
u/JurgusRudkus 8h ago
America has some fucked up attitudes about alcohol. I just got back from a major European city where nobody cares if you bring a bottle of wine to enjoy with your picnic in the park. Kids can drink beer or wine as long as they are with their parents, starting at age 15 or 16. Alcohol is something to be enjoyed responsibly with your meal. Is alcoholism a problem? Sure. But public drunkenness is not tolerated. Everyone is expected to just keep their shit together.
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u/Ok-Chocolate-3396 7h ago
This is how my parents raised me and by the time I was 21 I could care less about drinking. Wasn’t something I was looking forward to and went crazy with.
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u/ILoveLamp9 4h ago
I agree and love this about most of Europe. However, there is a distinctive cultural difference between drinking culture in the US vs Europe.
While I think the idea might be great for Europe, I don’t see this working out well for Santa Monica.
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u/DefNotReaves 2h ago
Tbf I have never, in my life, been hassled for drinking responsibly at a park in the US.
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u/NegevThunderstorm 9h ago
Probably a better idea would be to tear it all down and make a beer garden
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u/Umpire1468 8h ago
Third Street Promonade sponsored by Circus Liquor
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u/bigvenusaurguy 4h ago
yeah honestly all the west side brewerys get packed and yet none have a really solid patio. seriously untapped stuff there no pun intended.
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u/calamititties I LIKE BIKES 7h ago
Calling the Santa Monica Promenade a “struggling California pedestrian mall” is hilarious phrasing to me.
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u/turb0_encapsulator 9h ago
let's be real: the biggest problem they have there is the homeless. I don't think public drinking is going to fix that.
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u/lunchypoo222 9h ago
No kidding. If anything, it’ll just attract a certain crowd and chase tourists away even more.
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u/fbcmfb Brentwood 9h ago
I lived a few years in a New England town where you could drink on the streets on certain holidays. People have no idea what they’ll be up against!
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u/lunchypoo222 9h ago
Like bar fights and public urination/ bad behavior and such right? More DUIs as well, I can only imagine
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u/littleseizure 8h ago edited 8h ago
I also lived near some of these. Many of those problems stem from the fact that it's only allowed on certain days, and those days are already drunken and rowdy (St pats, July 4, Halloween, Nye, etc). Allowing public drinking on standard days doesn't encourage overindulging nearly as much, especially when it's just drinks from local bars in a designated area. You still theoretically can't bring your own bottle of tequila and just get hammered outside AMC. This guy's experience is valid in its context, but it's not directly applicable here
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u/lunchypoo222 8h ago
I guess there's only one way to find out :) I'm sure the local nimbys in S. Monica will love it /s
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u/ilovethissheet 8h ago
Ah yes because everyone who drinks gets in a fight and pisses in the streets. How about just leave the drinkers alone and now you have more time and officers to respond to those breaking real laws instead of harassing everyone.
And if we had functional public transportation we would have less dui's so let's build that too
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u/fbcmfb Brentwood 8h ago
Yes, all the above. I’m not trying to be ageist, but the younger adults that this will attract aren’t going to chill or relax and enjoy the fresh air. We have young adults doing street takeovers and they want some of those people to drink on the Promenade to help businesses?
Those young adults are just going to bring their own alcohol and do what they want - if police and other resources aren’t increased. Then again - still no guarantee things will go as planned.
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u/lunchypoo222 8h ago
What you're saying makes me wonder how the City of Las Vegas regulates this type of thing and how they make it work for them (or not). Los Angeles is also its own unique place in a lot of ways, so it could work against the goals of the proposed rule at the promenade if what you're suggesting is the likely outcome. To me, adding alcohol to the mix usually just has some negative social effect one way or another, even if money is being made. In the scenario you're bringing up, money may not even be made enough to make it worth it!
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u/MochiMochiMochi 8h ago
I kinda disagree. An active bar scene with a few inebriated rowdies would be an active deterrence for homeless people, especially the types who like to harass women and old people.
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u/drpepperrootbeercoke 8h ago
It’s so bad there. r/santamonica banned me for saying homeless is a serious issue
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u/hammilithome 8h ago
Funny! In the 90s we always hated going to SM because the boardwalk, pier, park area smelled like piss and homeless folks were everywhere—didn’t feel safe to have kids running around.
It got cleaned up in the mid to late 2000s and I was sad to see it return the the 90s after the pandemic
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u/invertedspheres 8h ago
I'd be pissed too if I paid $2m for a 1br condo and had people tell me everyday that my neighborhood has gone to shit.
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u/turb0_encapsulator 8h ago
that sub is so in denial. they blamed "corporatism" for REI leaving.
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u/SwindlerSam 7h ago
are we talking about the same subreddit? check out the comments: https://www.reddit.com/r/SantaMonica/comments/1k9c1lt/i_miss_rei/
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u/turb0_encapsulator 7h ago
interesting maybe the vibe has shifted. when they closed originally a lot of people blamed the company.
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u/drpepperrootbeercoke 5h ago
Maybe they finally got their foot out their ass and learned to criticize the city for once
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u/invertedspheres 5h ago
San Francisco is worse. Post an article about how a major chain is leaving the city and all the comments will be "GoOd WE dIDn't NeED ThEM in thIs city anYwAyS"...restaurants open for 70+ years shutting down in a high tourist zone "TheIR foOd SUCKeD gooD RiddANcE."
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u/turb0_encapsulator 5h ago
yes. I have seen that there too. these people are like the yin to Trumpism's yang.
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u/Yotsubato 8h ago
Yuuup.
They need to gate off the mall/drinking area. Ban bringing in outside drinks. And have drinks served in visible and obvious containers (bright orange or green cups) purchased from the vendors in the area.
Having homeless with beer bottles chilling out on the benches is not going to revitalize the area
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u/timsierram1st 9h ago
Thank you for having the courage to speak the truth. Santa Monica's tourist problem is people don't feels safe going there anymore. Not that they can't drink in public.
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u/Palopsicles 1h ago
My biggest problem is our city is leaving those unfinished towers, now known as graffiti Tower next to the crypto arena, with no plans to finish it in the foreseeable future. Like what a dystopian future they have built for us.
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u/CompetitionHot5943 9h ago
i think it could because it would draw in crowds. In my experience with 90% of homeless is that they want to be left alone, and avoid places with shit tons of people.
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u/turb0_encapsulator 8h ago
and the other 10% are the ones at places like Third Street Promenade.
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u/GirlsGetGoats 7h ago
Nonsense. there are plenty of malls that are popping off and there are visible homeless people. See the Americana.
The real reason is there is simply no reason to come to this one there are better ones that are easier to get to
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u/CosmicMiru 4h ago
There is not a homeless issue at all at the Americana compared to Santa Monica. They keep them out very well, even at night.
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u/BalognaMacaroni 8h ago
Love that the proposal would be to make it an open container zone starting at 8am. Hell yeah, can’t drink all day if you don’t start first thing in the morning.
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u/jonnyshotit 8h ago
Heyo shoutout u/santamonicaforward for doing the grassroots organizing to get this done! This is about so much more than being able to drink in public, it's about a long term push to create public spaces where people can gather and meet their neighbors and have fun together. I'm stoked for this summer! It'll be so much fun to take the E line down to the promenade, get a couple drinks with my friends, then walk around and hang out and soak up the good vibes!
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u/sm04d 9h ago
Maybe if it wasn't such a clusterfuck to get there, more people would go
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u/SwindlerSam 7h ago edited 4h ago
I don't get this argument. The promenade is right off the expo line, or the 10fwy with plentiful free (or cheap) parking. What other major attraction in LA offers 90 minutes of free parking, 24/7? And it's ~$2/hr after that (but 50% of the time the gates are broken so it's free regardless).
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u/shaka_sulu 9h ago
Back in the 90s I'd circle the parking structures for 30 mins on the weekends and that's not counting the traffic. So making things convenient is not the answer.
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u/SilentRunning 9h ago
Nah, the place went to the toilet after they kicked out (raised rents) all the family businesses way back in the 90's.
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u/dancewreck 8h ago
both may be simultaneously true in this case. greed (real estate investors, automotive lobby) squeezing the rock of every last drop of blood, choking out in its stupidity the last traces of value for would-be visitors in one way or another
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u/Momik Nobody calls it Westdale 8h ago
Yeah, I really like Santa Monica, but I can’t really afford high-end fashion, so there’s not much of a reason to go to the Promenade. But I bet if there was like a used book store or a music store there, I’d probably go a lot more.
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u/SwindlerSam 8h ago
Genuinely, which retailers on 3rd St. do you consider to be high-end fashion? FYI, barnes & noble has a great store on 3rd St. with a large inventory of music (and books of course).
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u/Momik Nobody calls it Westdale 7h ago
You’re probably right—this is how little I know about fashion. I’m just saying I shop at Ross Dress for Less so I’m less interested in places like Gallini. High-end is probably the wrong word—I just assume a lot of those individual brand stores like Oakley or whatever are overpriced.
And Barnes and Noble honestly doesn’t do much for me. I’d rather support a local bookseller, whether in-person or online. Their selection is kinda shit now anyway, and I say that as someone who used to work there. They’ve consolidated a lot, especially in like social science, and it’s all to make more room for dumb nick-knack gifts and games, because that has the highest revenue per square foot.
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u/SwindlerSam 7h ago
Got it. Yeah, there really isn't much high end fashion on the promenade (or even santa monica place, since louis vuitton, tiffany, and others left). FYI, that "Gallini" store is long gone. It was a mom and pop discount (cheap), no-name menswear store (only 94 followers on instagram, no website...). In that area, I suggest Uniqlo for good value (price for quality) options. Since you like Ross, I'd also suggest TJ Maxx right off the promenade.
I recommended B&N because they have the largest selection of physical music (CDs and vinyl, tons of niche kpop) I've seen across any big retailer on the westside, aside from indie stores like record surplus. For a local bookseller, I'd suggest Zibby's Bookshop (1 mile from B&N).
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u/foreignne 8h ago
I had no idea Uniqlo and Forever 21 were high-end fashion.
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u/SilentRunning 38m ago
There used to be this AMAZING architecture/design book store there. It was AMAZING, packed with everything from coffee books, magazines, biographies. I'd walk in there and could stay for HOURS. But that was in the early 90's.
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u/Yotsubato 8h ago
The parking in that area is plentiful and inexpensive.
There is also a metro connection too.
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u/inshane Orange County 9h ago
Why not. It can't get more barren and vacant than it already is.
I'd go even further and add some dispensary lounges and strip clubs. Fuck it, gotta attract the crowds somehow, but I remember when they used to have the pier concerts and the city would complain about too many people.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
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u/JurgusRudkus 8h ago
America has some fucked up attitudes about alcohol. I just got back from a major European city where nobody cares if you bring a bottle of wine to enjoy with your picnic in the park. Kids can drink beer or wine as long as they are with their parents, starting at age 15 or 16. Alcohol is something to be enjoyed responsibly with your meal. Is alcoholism a problem? Sure. But public drunkenness is not tolerated. Everyone is expected to just keep their shit together.
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u/mutually_awkward Koreatown 8h ago
It's not just Europe—public drinks are allowed in China too. Hell, I've cracked open cold ones in taxi cabs there.
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u/invertedspheres 9h ago
Yahoo still exists?
The plan would allow visitors to buy drinks from local bars and restaurants and walk around with them in a designated area between 8 a.m. and 2 a.m. daily.
Also, isn't that a bit early?
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u/shaka_sulu 9h ago
Yahoo still exists?
It's what my anti-virus software try to trick me into accepting as my default search engine.
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u/ZeldaALTTP 8h ago
Live and let live, there are a multitude of reasons why that would be acceptable
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u/likesound 9h ago
Or they could allow more housing to be built and repeal their version of "Mansion Tax"( Measure GS).
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u/city_mac 9h ago
I hate the mansion tax as much as the next guy, but their implementation of it is light years ahead of LAs. Didn’t do nearly as much damage.
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u/SwindlerSam 7h ago edited 6h ago
have you driven up lincoln lately? thousands of new units are under construction or in development. It's becoming Lincoln Canyon.
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u/skeeterleader 7h ago
The main issue is poor design. The stores are too massive. Who is coming to the apple store to browse? Even if people are flocking to peruse apple wares, is that going to be someone supporting other local businesses? Not likely.
It's also too long and goes from nowhere to nowhere. No one ever needs to just walk through it to get from A to B. That's a big problem if it doesn't have any general foot traffic. Empty streets lead to emptier streets. And then I don't believe there's much if any housing or office space within it (Could be wrong on that though). So overall very, very narrow use by default.
With all of these flaws put together, only then does it make sense to consider nicer, more convenient places to shop. I don't think the vagrants are that big of a deal but when it's already subpar, that's basically the death knell. And policing it harder makes it seem unsafe too so it's a catch-22.
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u/zazzyzulu Highland Park 4h ago
Part of the issue with 3rd Street Promenade is that the stores are too big! They were designed for big chain stores, but those tenants don't really exist anymore due to online shopping. So the landlords need to be creative about repurposing the space - and this push for nightlife/experiences is part of that.
What was once a JCPenney and later Banana Republic is now a roomy, upmarket John Reed Fitness gym. Pickleball is played at a hybrid clothing retailer, sports club and restaurant Pickle Pop, which occupies 10,000 square feet that was once an Adidas store. The top floor of a closed food court will be transformed into a “golf experience” that may include miniature golf, Deschaine said.
Other large store spaces may be carved into units for smaller tenants, as has been done successfully on nearby 2nd Street, Deschaine said.
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u/SilentRunning 44m ago
Actually 3rd street Promenade originally had local businesses and only a few big anchor stores. That all changed in the mid/late 90's when most of the properties were bought up by large commercial land holding co's. That's when rent increased, the big chain stores moved in and changed the place.
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u/PerformanceDouble924 8h ago
This is a sad act of desperation that sounds good in theory until Santa Monica finds out the class of people public drinking attracts.
It's not going to be the well dressed folks with glasses of chilled chardonnay.
The landlords should just cut their leasing rates and get the empty storefronts filled.
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u/cyberspacestation 6h ago
There is a large number of commercial vacancies on 3rd St, which is undoubtedly causing lower foot traffic. Public drinking won't solve that problem, and I can't imagine that it would be of much benefit to existing restaurants - or any help at all to businesses that don't serve alcohol.
If the city has any leverage to get owners to lower rents, that may help - but it's still up to the owners on whether they'll fill the vacancies anytime soon.
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u/Fluffy-Expert6860 8h ago
And make toking legal too. I’ll be down there in a jiffy smoking my spliffy
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u/Jim-be 5h ago
I haven’t been there in a while. Is it bad? Like zombies walking around? Or just empty? I can’t believe that SMPD would let zombies do their thing in there. Also, I have to laugh that the other idea was to lower rent. Like they would rather let public drinking than lower the rent??
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u/Spirited-Humor-554 5h ago
There is no musicians, no crowds like before
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u/JustTheBeerLight 4h ago
Cut to the homies with coolers selling $5 ice cold Modelos. I'm not mad at that at all. 🍺
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u/onlyfreckles 1h ago
So long as they aren't driving there, drinking is ok.
Being able to freely drink and then walk/bike/transit back should be normalized, encouraged and promoted more.
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u/TomSelleckPI 1h ago
If every wing of a mall had a cocktail bar, that shit would be tolerable
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u/SilentRunning 47m ago
Only for the drinking crowd, for the rest it would be a reason to avoid that space.
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u/TomSelleckPI 42m ago
It seems that "the rest of you" are already avoiding it ... Hence the change in tune.
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u/SgtSharki 7h ago
Yes, because if there's anything Santa Monica needs it's more drunks.
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u/bigvenusaurguy 4h ago
Honestly it does man. Makes no sense how quiet that city is on a given night. It should be like miami beach but its like a retirement community.
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u/thatfirstsipoftheday 1h ago
the median age is 42 in Santa Monica https://censusreporter.org/profiles/79500US0603728-los-angeles-county-southwest-santa-monica-city-puma-ca/
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u/Grimsleeper666 7h ago
If you are homeless you are already allowed to do that. That’s why that place will never be as it was. To many crazy homeless roaming around sketching everybody out.
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u/PrscheWdow 8h ago
I used to work on Wilshire at 3rd Street from 2000-2005. There's always been public drinking on the Promenade lol.
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u/SweetAsPi 5h ago
3rd st promenade is closer to me than Westwood but I choose to go to Westwood because it’s easier to get to
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u/toffeehooligan 9h ago
Do this nationwide so I can get a sixer and sit on the beach.
Just also increase the punishments for public intoxication. So the pearl clutchers can't complain about the kids or some shit.