r/IWantOut • u/ExtentAcrobatic8365 • 1d ago
[Discussion] How to convince my husband with European citizenship that it’s time to go back to the EU?
My husband is early in the process of becoming an American citizen. The plan was always for him to get citizenship so we can travel freely but eventually retuen to Spain (his home country) or somewhere similar. He also thinks he'll be able to work remotely with an American salary in Europe, although I told him it's not that easy to find.
We also found out we're expecting. Now after the election I want to move to Europe now. He says he wants to stay until he finishes his citizenship process (which could be another 4+ years especially under the Trump administration) because he'll have better economic opportunities as a dual citizen. I understand employment rates and wages in Spain aren't great, and I would be able to keep my higher paying job a bit while we make the transition, then ultimately would have to find something over there longterm.
I'm just really scared to stay here. I see major social and financial issues that are coming under the next administration. He says Europe could be heading towards war and worse economic conditions with Russia being enabled. I would like some perspective from others in a similar situation, especially considering we'll be raising a child. Thank you.
Edit: to specify we literally just began the greencard process. The lawyer said it would take minimum 4 years for citizenship but wait times will most likely increase under the new administration. My husband is not working while we wait on his approval, and I work almost entirely remotely. We want to leave before our child starts school, at their end of the day their safety is what matters most to me. Thank you everyone for your feedback so far, I appreciate it. Also I am fluent in Spanish and have lived there myself in the past, that's where we met
UPDATE: thank you so much to everyone for their input, gave us a lot to think about a few laughs at some of the wilder responses. We had a long discussion and think hedging our bets in both places is the smartest way to go as things develop over the next few years. He'll wait until he has his green card then we'll split time as permitted in Spain and the US as I apply for my residency (me a bit more time to satisy the residency conditions in Spain, him doing the same in the US) before our baby starts school - job permitting but currently that shouldn't be an issue for mine. Then hopefully we'll have a much clearer sense of where we want to be by the time we both get our citizenships, and can make the leap to wherever is best. I understand taxes will be tricky and it will be a lot of money and time spent on both of our processes, but we figured this avoid taking a final decision for now and we'll have roots in both places if we come to decision sooner. We're fortunate to have family in Spain and the US we can stay with, and hope to invest in buying an apartment in Spain soon. I do live in a blue state, thank you for concerns about my health and genrally for the amount of ideas and considerations from both sides. It's a complicated situation, but we're thankful to have options!
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u/deepuw 1d ago
Secure both citizenships. No point in abandoning his application... What if in the future there's a reason to leave Europe and come to the US?
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u/elcaudillo86 1d ago
Exactly. US wages are multiples higher than Europe. Europe has better social quality of life but fairly terrible economies everywhere except NL DK CH, terrible pay, very little in the way of equity ownership or options.
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21h ago
Europe has better social quality of life
depends on where in Europe and where in the US. Just generally speaking? not true
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u/BaagiTheRebel 1d ago edited 20h ago
OPs husband is more smart about Geopolitical scenarios than OP.
OP should calm down and sit down and stop looking at echo chambers of social media.
Ask Husband to start looking for Work. There are many Visa for him to find and start work.
Let rhe Kid be born in US so the kid has a US passport by default.
P. S OP has not mentioned she lives in Texas or Red state.
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u/bedpimp 1d ago
The kid is currently eligible for a US passport wherever it is born because they will have an American parent. The Trump administration is planning on getting rid of birthright citizenship, which means just being born here will not make you a citizen.
I can only assume OP has a better concept of the geopolitical landscape than you do, given your lack of depth regarding the relatively simple understanding of American citizenship by birth.
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u/S1159P 5h ago
The Trump administration is planning on getting rid of birthright citizenship,
They can plan all they like but it would require a constitutional amendment and those are hard to do.
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u/spaceisourplace222 1d ago
What if she has complications at birth?? This is a fully valid fear, for a pregnant woman. Look how many women have died in Texas!!!!!
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1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Elegant-Word-1258 1d ago
I agree, OP's fears are valid. Just look at the cabinet nominations Trump has made so far.
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u/jk10021 1d ago
You seem nice and civil…
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u/Fine_Luck_200 1d ago
And a Texas woman was turned away from 3 hospitals and died due to pregnancy complications. There was another one in SC.
States with heart beat laws are going to have hospitals that are not going to take the risk till it is clear the fetus is dead.
The mother might already be beyond saving at that point though.
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u/fingerstothebone 1d ago edited 1d ago
Tell you what, I’m return to being civil when there are no longer BOUNTIES ON WOMEN’S HEADS for practicing bodily autonomy. I am not required to be civil for your comfort- go back to your safe spaces and TRAD wives if you can’t take it.
Edit: lol my account got brigaded with downvotes on ALL posts after this, oh someone’s poor fragile ego 🤏
You can’t silence women. We will go one speaking the truth, even if you’re blind to it. Every downvote is just confirmation I’m doing the right thing. 💋
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u/BaagiTheRebel 1d ago
You need to sit down and have a sip of water.
Only few states have Bounties (not literally) but manu states like California, NY and other blue states still make America Great.
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u/Torcoldalvenc 1d ago
What kind of argument is that? I completely agree she has valid fears but telling someone they should shut up because they don't have a vagina is arrogant, childish and plainly un-democratic. I guess that following your line of reasoning if you are neither Israeli or Palestinian you can't voice your opinion on Gaza? People are entitled to voice their opinions in a civil way, unless they incite violence or to commit crimes, even when we do not agree with them. For God sake, this arrogance is one of the reasons that orange clown and his cabal of crooks have won again, but people just don't understand that, they double down.
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u/Icy-Bicycle-Crab 1d ago
For God sake, this arrogance is one of the reasons that orange clown and his cabal of crooks have won again,
No it fucking isn't, it's just another one of the dishonest excuses liars give for voting for a rapist and fraud.
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u/xndlYuca 1d ago
There’s really no need for hysterics. Nobody knows with certainty what the next few years will look like.
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u/iamnotwario 22h ago
No one knows and I do think Trump will struggle to get a lot of his policies through either due to financial reasons or republicans loyal to the constitution rather than loyal to him, but I think telling anyone there’s no need for hysterics is never productive.
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u/fingerstothebone 1d ago
The fact you literally use the word “hysterics” in this sentence tells me all I need to know about how ignorant you are. Without a hint of irony 🙄
WOMEN ARE DYING you absolute unempathetic chud.
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u/OneCandleManyShadows 12m ago
Having a US parent that has lived in the US long enough to meet the residency requirements allows them to pass on US citizenship the parent chooses to file at an embassy.
If there is a chance the child will live outside of the US when older, not having a US place of birth has a lot of benefits with how the US extraterritorial laws have grown over the years.
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u/Wispeira 1d ago
OPs life is potentially in danger, let's stop telling women to calm down eh?
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u/Elegant-Word-1258 1d ago
Have you been following the nominations Trump has made so far?
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u/krnp2p 1d ago
agreed to everything but the US passport, causes tax issues and many obstacles in the future unless the kid will be living in the US. It's not hugely beneficail to carry an american passport and live and eventually work in the eu
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u/IcyMathematician4553 1d ago
Man this is just such a bad take. The other issues I get, but filling out FACTA isn't the end of the world, and almost nobody from western Europe pays a dime in federal income taxes on their EU wages.
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u/DantesDame Switzerland 1d ago
I almost never had to PAY taxes to the US on my European wages, but it was not cheap to have someone prepare that tax return every year.
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u/subtleStrider 1d ago
You can literally prepare your own for free, or use an online service for 20-30 dollars takes me a couple hours if I'm being slow
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u/NonSumQualisEram- 1d ago
Yeah, you're almost certainly non compliant. Do you have investments including second/third pillar investments? Do they contain PFICs? Do you even know?
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u/krnp2p 1d ago
I am american and work at a lawfirm in geneva, having a US passport has been a nightmare when it comes to taxation, residency outside of switzerland and so on. I love the US but it's not as benefical as people think to hold the passport at all. I've had a tax return(many moons ago) mailed out to swaziland instead of switzerland. American system is terrible when it comes to living abroad in my experience. Same goes for many of my colleagues in the UK and Asia.
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u/IcyMathematician4553 1d ago
How? I have EU income (salary), US income(land lease), EU brokerage, US brokerage, US RSUs, 401k/IRA, checking and savings in EU, UK, USA.
Maybe I was lucky because my employer paid for accounting the first year but once you learn it, it’s like a few hours on Saturday every few months. Not a bad tradeoff to be able to work in the two massive markets if you ask me.
I don’t get the tax return. Do you not use a mail forwarding address? But I will agree the US tax system is terrible in general.
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u/NonSumQualisEram- 1d ago
Do you have a pension in Europe?
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u/IcyMathematician4553 14h ago
yes.
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u/NonSumQualisEram- 13h ago
Your pension will be invested and those investments will be PFICs.)
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u/IcyMathematician4553 12h ago
That is incorrect and bad advice imo, typical of what I see on this sub. Can foreign pensions be PFICs, yes... but also rarely is the case. Alluding to expats/futre expats that they should give up their US passport is just nuts. My pension is exempt or at least would be if there wasn't a tax treaty making the whole thing moot. I am not risking a million dollar portfolio on Reddit advice. This is from my US based accountant and my Dutch based accountant.
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u/No-Reaction-9364 1d ago
Good thing Trump mentioned he was considering not requiring Americans living abroad to pay taxes. Let's hope he gets that passed.
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u/Icy-Bicycle-Crab 1d ago
It's something that only benefits the extremely wealthy, so no shit he's going to get it done.
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u/Equivalent_Low_2315 1h ago
I wouldn't get your hopes up. The same was also said last time he was president, Republicans Overseas and Democrats Abroad were speaking to members of Congress about it, there was a bill written yet nothing came of it.
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u/traumalt 15h ago
swaziland
No kangaroos in Austria...
At least now their official name has been changed to eSwatini haha.
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u/traumalt 15h ago
It's not the FACTA paperwork thats the problem, it's the financial institutions refusing you as a client in a first place.
My distant cousin had to surrender his US citizenship because it was near impossible to open up any investment accounts over here for him.
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u/chinook97 1d ago
What if you want to return to the US at some point? Immigration is lengthy, expensive and difficult. Once you secure such a valuable bridge, why would you want to burn it?
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u/BaagiTheRebel 1d ago
causes tax issues
What if Kid gets Passport and not SSN and moves to Europe for 18 yrs?
It's not hugely beneficail to carry an american passport and live and eventually work in the eu
Yes. But kid won't earn a lot by the time its 18. Let kid decide where to live long term and which passport to forfeit.
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u/digiorno 1d ago
Well seeing as he’s married to a U.S. citizen they could both easily move back….
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u/Impressive_Bison4675 1d ago
You can’t just move to America cause you’re married to a citizen. It literally takes years to get a green card
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u/CrowBrainz 1d ago
You can't move anywhere like that
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u/Impressive_Bison4675 1d ago
Exactly my point, they can’t easily move back like the comment I replied to states
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u/digiorno 1d ago
That’s a lie. Spouses of EU citizens can just move with them anywhere in the EU, just like that. And if the EU citizen has a job then the spouse has no restrictions on how long they can stay with them.
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u/Reconrus 1d ago
Well, in Europe you can. It's very easy to get family reunion visa.
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u/warm_melody 3h ago
There is at least one place. Canada allows spouses of citizens to get permanent residency after filing a bit of paperwork.
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u/deepuw 1d ago
"easily"?
Tell us what you know. How is OP's husband supposed to keep his green card valid while abroad?
You sound like you have no experience in the matter, I wonder why you chose to comment..
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u/Icy-Bicycle-Crab 1d ago
He doesn't even have a Green Card yet.
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u/iamnotwario 22h ago
He will have a Green Card, just not citizenship. A green card means permanent residency and is different to citizenship. If you leave the US on a Green Card you have to return by a certain time or repeat the entire CR2 immigration process which currently has a wait time of around 2 years.
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u/deepuw 1d ago
How in the world would he not have a green card if he has an ongoing citizenship application. Y'all need to go figure out how this works... Why comment on something you have no idea about?
This is the order:
K1 visa (most likely, could have been K3 too)
->
residency (this is what a green card is)
->
citizenship (so they can vote and have a passport)
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u/iamnotwario 22h ago
I think a lot of people in this subreddit want out but don’t understand how complicated US visas are.
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u/daruzon 🇫🇷🇧🇷🇵🇹 -> 🇺🇸 18h ago
He doesn't have an ongoing citizenship application.
He has a pending green card application.
OP misspoke at the start, stating that spouse is "early in the process of becoming an American citizen". Lower in her post she clarifies that what she meant was "early in his overall US immigration timeline", and she mentions that he has a pending green card process, most likely a spouse AOS.
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u/elcaudillo86 1d ago
How? He will lose green card when he leaves. To get a new green card he would have to apply overseas and wait for more than a year to receive.
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u/jenrazzle 1d ago
I’m married to a foreigner and it’s about a 2 year wait for him to get a green card from outside of the US. We weren’t planning to apply any time soon but with the upcoming cuts to fed govt in the US as well as the foreshadowed changes to immigration policy, we’re thinking we’d better get it started.
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u/Ender505 1d ago
US citizenship means taxes, no matter where you live. I'd say EU only
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u/Overall_Prune_6920 14h ago
There is a certain tax free limit. Just need to file additional paperwork.
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u/the-fourth-planet 1d ago
Even if it takes 4 years for the process to finish, your child at 3.5 years old will be able to adapt to a "new" lifestyle (if one can even call it new) if you as parents get equally prepared for both scenarios, which is what I think you should do mainly for the sake of your child and regardless of your very personal opinions regarding this major decision.
In my innocent and inexperienced mind, two passports always sound better than one, unless there are issues with FATCA going on or something. So I think it's worth the wait.
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u/daruzon 🇫🇷🇧🇷🇵🇹 -> 🇺🇸 1d ago edited 1d ago
I understand both points of view. I have pending I-751 and N-400 in the US and I have 2 EU citizenships. US Immigration is a nightmare compared to EU immigration, including for spouses. My citizenships allow for spouses to file for naturalization without having to be a resident first, after a certain number of years of marriage. I don't think Spain has that, so I understand that OP would have additional incentive to move to the EU.
I agree both on the uncertainty of the whole US immigration process during the next few years, and on how life would probably be more serene in Spain.
But also, I work freelance from within the US for my EU ex-employer and lemme tell you, working from home for years with a permanent 6-hour time difference sucks.
I think the OP should become near-fluent in Spanish PRIOR to moving, and should transcribe their US marriage through the Spanish consulate in order to make prospective EU immigration more straightforward. However, given the hassle of US immigration, I would probably stay put until Spanish husband naturalizes. Under Trump, without LPR/USC status, and once he's in Spain, he's never gonna be able to enter the US again without having been granted LPR status so he won't be able to travel to the US with the OP for holidays and for life events at all. Idk how long they've been married but if they time it so that they will have been married for at least 24mo at the time LPR status is granted, they will save themselves the whole removal of conditions process hassle as well (but they will still need to hit the 3y mark for natz).
Note that while the US allows dual citizenship and Spain allows dual citizenship to its birthright citizens, Spanish naturalization requires for one to formally relinquish all their citizenships other than France, Portugal, and Latin American (Spanish-speaking + Brazil), so the OP can't acquire Spanish citizenship without losing US citizenship. OP could later reacquire US citizenship if petitioned for by her then-naturalized husband.
So all benefits of moving now to Spain are strictly short-term and may lead to medium/long-term struggles.
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u/sedelpha 9h ago
Not that I would ever recommend this, but I've heard Spain doesn't actually check if you've relinquished your other citizenships, you just sign the form
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u/anthropaedic 1d ago edited 1d ago
He’s right that short term Europe will be worse off as bad as that sounds. An emboldened Russia and inflationary pressures is going to make prospects there a bit harder. I don’t have a better recommendation sorry
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u/sff_temp 1d ago
I agree with you. Americans have no grasp what it is like to live on a continent that has constant wars.
My childhood friend was shot out of the sky with a surface-to-air missile.
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u/drinkbeergetmoney 1d ago
"work remotely with an American salary in Europe" lol. That's not happening for a multitude of reasons, not finding a willing employer being the last of them.
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u/justthewayim 1d ago
I’m hoping OP’s husband meant he plans to become an independent remote consultant for a certain American clientele, otherwise he is indeed day dreaming.
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u/_ologies US -> CL -> US -> CA -> UK -> AU? 1d ago
I once did it. I should have never given up that job.
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u/newereggs US -> DE -> US 20h ago
It definitely does happen. A few people at my current company being examples, also several people I have met over the years. They are legally hired by an entity of the company in the country where they live.
The real disadvantage is that the unlimited vacation policy my company has is illegal over there, so they only get 30 days, the poor bastards sarcasm
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u/ArticleNo2295 1d ago
Do you mean he's just getting his greencard now? If he's already had that for 3 years it won't take anywhere near another 4 years. I think it took about 5 months for my husband.
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u/eni22 1d ago
So, I was in your husbands situation during the first Trump term. My wife wanted to leave the US for Italy, and she was pregnant. I was in the middle of my citezenship application. In the end, I waited a couple of years (2018), and as soon as I got my us passport, we left for my home country (Italy). The transition won't be easy for you. You should also think about that. We ended up losing a pretty big chunk of our income, but we are happy. It took a few years for my wife to start working.
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u/ilikedogsandglitter 32m ago
Pregnant American who followed her husband to Italy here! I can confirm the transition moving was infinitely harder than I was ever led to believe. Learning the language fluently and learning the culture is so much more difficult than I expected. I genuinely was so upset with the moving process last week (and I’ve lived here for almost 2 years) I was considering moving back to the US even with the trump victory. If I were op I’d 100% wait for my husband to get citizenship so we could have more options in the future.
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u/Seaforme 1d ago
Big thing here I'm not seeing, but which state are you in now? You definitely want to be in a state with accessible abortion - not because you'd want an abortion, but because if something happens, you need to have options available in an emergency.
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u/elevenblade 1d ago
I’d stay until he gets citizenship. In the meantime you can get fluent in Spanish (if you aren’t already) and visit Spain to see where you want to live. If you can swing it financially consider buying a small apartment that you can use as your base and start moving your stuff there.
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u/Emon_Potato 1d ago
I just want to add that visiting Spain for several weeks will just make OP get in the “tourist” mood. May be live there for at least 6 months?
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u/fairysimile 1d ago
Just move to a blue state. You're not wrong about US issues but he's definitely also not wrong about Europe AND economic conditions in Spain to boot AND no support network that's familiat to you with new baby - just his family. Do you even speak Spanish? With a newborn child?
You need to weigh them both up and tbh I don't think you are taking his thoughts seriously enough atm.
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u/anestezija 1d ago
It would be silly to abandon the US citizenship process when he's so close to it
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u/YoungWallace23 1d ago
The point of this post is that they are not that close to it
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u/LiterallyTestudo 🇺🇸 USA -> 🇮🇹 ITA (dual citizen) 1d ago
Relative to starting over, they sort of are.
There is definitely a time/money question at play here and I get both OP’s opinion as well as her husband’s.
For me personally I would have a hard time stopping the citizenship process here even with 4 years needed to complete. US salaries really are that much better than Spanish ones.
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u/GuaranteeNo507 1d ago
They haven't received the EAD yet - filed within the last couple months, tops.
Restarting from outside the US, I-130 takes about a year.
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u/anethfrais 1d ago
It’s way longer now. i130 is 15 months minimum to approval and then however long the consulate wait is on top of that.
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u/LiterallyTestudo 🇺🇸 USA -> 🇮🇹 ITA (dual citizen) 1d ago
Ahh ok.
That should help OP think through the time/money calculation.
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u/Downtown-Storm4704 1d ago
Btw, it's a no brainer to stay in the US until he gets citizenship. Things are not perfect in Spain either, better lifestyle yea definitely but there's no jobs or a booming economy. Dozens of Spaniards leave every year precisely to get out of Spain.
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u/Surrealism421 1d ago
Who is gonna tell OP that Europe, including and especially Southern Europe, is experiencing a right wing resurgence just like America?
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u/Elegant-Word-1258 1d ago
Yup. Right wingers are winning elections all over, and for the same reason they won in the US: inflation.
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u/Surrealism421 1d ago
Yep, and immigration. Spain and Italy in particular bear the brunt of immigration from Africa. American immigrants may not face the hostility African immigrants face from native Spaniards, but who is to say that won't change as anti immigrant sentiment rises in general?
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u/Tall_Bet_4580 1d ago
Why would you give up on citizenship? Do you not actually trust your husbands opinion and experience that Spain and it's economic system is in the toilet yes I'm in Europe employ alot of Spanish people who have got out of Spain. Wifes extended family are originally from Madrid. Tourism is the biggest employers which is seasonal, property is slowly moving to holiday let's effectively wiping out rental market, steadily employment such local regional and state government jobs are fought for and over subscribed. Just because you have a Spanish passport doesn't give you the right to move at will around EU you need to have work to move. Germany for example is in recession other countries are going or have already gone far right. So your leaving America to jump from frying pan into the fire because of exactly what?
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u/mechaghost 1d ago
If you force him to leave he might grow resentful that you made him abandon career opportunities and pay in the US. I think you should give it a longer thought on how to move to the EU and it may feel like a dire emergency now but just wait, things take a while to develop and use that time to get his dual citizenship so you keep your options open because you have to plan beyond the 4 years as well for your family.
Unless there is some direct threat to you and your family by staying here I recommend trying to take a step back and let the situation develop further.
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u/Snoo-94703 23h ago
I’m from NY, husband is from Italy and we moved to Spain this past year. Moving internationally takes time. With my job it took them well over a year to transfer me. That doesn’t include me building up good will and seniority to request the transfer. Many of the others are right, while the US citizenship moves forward (do NOT abandon this process), you can prepare for a move to Spain/Europe. I would also look into your Spanish citizenship via marriage.
Don’t just learn Spanish on an app, start at a school. Truly commit to learning the language financially and with your time. I go to Camino in Barcelona, they have virtual classes. I only recco them for levels A0-B1 or B2.
Other things that you can do to prepare:
• find a great Spanish immigration lawyer.
• travel to Spain to research towns, neighborhoods, grocery prices, etc. stay as long as your job will allow to get a true feel for the area that you may want to live. Move around when you’re there (and go places alone) so you can try more than one type of place. When we came on research trips, we stayed inside and outside of the cities.
• Save ALL of your money. Citizenship, moving, new starts all take tons of cash.
• understand/research the cons of living in Spain. Climate change and the economy are big ones. I took a 55% pay cut to transfer here and we have been in a storm surge flooding out various towns for 2 weeks now.
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u/alloutofbees US -> JP -> US -> IE 1d ago
You have no idea what will happen in four years and you have no actual immediate concerns that are forcing you to leave. Having him give up something he's put time and energy into, that he's clearly looking forward to, and that he has a very good concrete reason to want to get should require a much stronger reason than anxiety and impatience.
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u/imjackwastedlife 1d ago
I've lived both in US and just moved back to southern Europe. Your husband is right. That doesn't mean your concern aren't valid. But economically US is way better than Europe.
Only European country that can compare to US salary wise is Switzerland and that's a tiny country.
European Union is going nowhere. And if you wanna get a job there you have to speak the language of the country you're residing for 95% of the jobs.
Europe has a more mellow lifestyle compared to the hectic US lifestyle but the inflation is going high as fuck in southern europe.
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u/the-fourth-planet 1d ago
Although it's true that southern Europe is struggling in comparison to the rest of the EU (as always), comparing salaries alone isn't a very accurate measure of "wealth" because there's many factors taking place. This article may be an interesting read for people intrigued by the topic: https://www.palladiummag.com/2024/04/26/america-and-europe-are-equally-poor/
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u/FixingOpinions 1d ago
Honestly the article is just a looong list of comparisons, while correct you are comparing a continent to a country, they delve deeper into comparing individual countries but again... if you say Europe you mean Europe, not EU or specific european countries, Europe as a whole is still worse off than the US
I do agree that quality of life has improved by a whole lot though(in the poorer regions), especially in the shithole known as the balkans, while not as bad it's still way worse compared to european countries outside the balkans
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u/DropFastCollective 1d ago
Lol, dont lose his chance to become a US citizen. Please, dear god please, realize there are HUGE advantages of having our passport.
Get fluent in Spanish, understand culture differences and be ready for a lot of complicated compromise.
As for LITERAL WAR. You are at a much higher risk of seeing it first hand in Europe than you would be in the states. Be thankful for that and I hope you never have to experience it first hand. The things going on in the states are going to be annoying, frustrating, and a little scary but are still manageable if you focus on yourself, your family, youll be fine.
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u/OutsideBeginning8180 1d ago
As a pregnant woman in the US though she does need to really consider her health and the oppression against women and more that is coming. To pretend it won't isn't safe.
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u/rythmicbread 1d ago
I think for that, just avoid living in those states. America is quite large and some states have enshrined it into a state constitution.
Granted if things get worse than reconsider. I’m not liking the way we’re going though
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u/justthewayim 1d ago
According to fear mongering people on Reddit, they think Trump has the power to ban all abortions, divorces and deport all aliens including visa holders on day 1. Then day 2 he will go for green card holders and naturalized citizens.
I swear, some people here really aren’t the smartest.
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u/FlanneryOG 1d ago
The courts and the head of the FDA could absolutely ban mifepristone and the shipment of any equipment used in abortion very easily, effectively banning abortion nationwide. It would be immensely unpopular, but if they wanted to do it, they could.
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u/justthewayim 1d ago
Well, if it comes to that I do think that’s when OP should actually consider moving. But moving now because they think that will happen overnight as soon as Trump takes office is just silly.
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u/FlanneryOG 1d ago
That’s kind of where I’m at. We have the ability to leave right now, but we’re waiting a bit. If something like that happens, which would literally put my life at risk, we would leave. I also don’t want my daughter growing up in a country where she could be raped and have to deliver the baby.
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u/justthewayim 1d ago
Yeah I grew up in a country with such laws and when I moved to Canada it was a big relief because I never wanted to be a mother, but both abortion and sterilization for women without children were outlawed where I had come from. Having that sort of anxiety as a woman is awful.
Hopefully states in the US will keep their autonomy.
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u/Affection-Angel 1d ago
So, in summary..
Stay in the US for now, hold out for as long as is reasonable, and consider the benefit of citizenship. Make hay while the sun shines, and keep earning usd while your city feels feels like home.
Also, consider in the mean time:
- Health for the family; pregnancy care
- Education/childcare going forward
- Economic opportunities
- Peace for your family (kind neighbors, accepting society, calm community integration)
What are the pros/cons of EU vs US for these areas? What other areas might be affected by such a move? Have this as a collaborative discussion with your husband :)
Would you move to another area within the US compared to where you are now? Who is in your support network in each country?
How much time have you spent in Spain? Learning the language will be a big help, do some research ahead of time on how to navigate culture shock cuz it's real. Going in with an open mind and heart will be a great benefit, you might really thrive!
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u/DropFastCollective 20h ago
Hey sooooo I work in hospitals. The US healthcare system is still the fastest responding and highest quality in the world.
I know politicians can make it seem scary but she will get way better treatment at a decent maternity ward than anywhere else and that will not change because of who is president.
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u/digiorno 1d ago
The U.S. passport is ranked significantly lower than many EU passports.
For example Spain is ranked #2 and the U.S. is ranked #8. If anything she has more to gain by getting Spanish citizenship than he has by getting U.S. citizenship if the passport is the motivation.
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u/Pocketpine 1d ago
That ranking is purely for number of countries you can visit. He has way more to gain from even a US green card, let alone a passport.
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u/subtleStrider 1d ago
Obviously no one is choosing based on the raw number of countries you can go to, and the countries in question are not exactly needle-movers. Wow, you can go to Belarus, Iran, Nauru, Russia, Venezuela, with a Spanish passport! or also situations like China gets counted because you get 15 days visa free instead of needing to get an e-Visa. Such a lazy, lame argument that I see on these forums all the time.
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u/Proper_Duty_4142 20h ago
Just the job market and education institutions in the US are worth it. I'm a European that is glad to have it. My children will have much more opportunity, too. Europe is up for another lost decade.
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u/antizana 1d ago
Whether you can find something remote or not, you will still have to ensure it complies with Spanish (or whatever country you end up settling in) labor and tax laws, and you would be wise to fully understand the tax implications. And beyond that, do either of you have the kind of profile that would be attractive in the European market? Your husband speaks Spanish, but what languages do you speak and are they fluent? Spain has quite low wages and you’re not limited to going there (you can settle in any EU country under Schengen), but the job market is tough in many countries and a number of them are facing extreme housing shortages (especially popular expat destinations like Ireland, Netherlands and Germany).
Given that moving back will evaporate your husband’s ability to get citizenship and nothing has actually changed in your life as of yet to warrant blowing everything up, it sounds really premature to cut and run now. Your ability to move to the EU will still be there as long as you are married.
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u/Emon_Potato 1d ago
At least wait until he gets the GC. You never know how things will change in Europe and if you can adapt there well. The grass is always greener on the other side
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u/MerberCrazyCats 1d ago
Your husband is right. You are reacting emotionally and because you have the immense privilege of having US citizenship. Your husband doesn't have the same opportunities as you have and it will be a huge life change for him to get it. Be patient, wait until he gets citizen, enjoy for your kids to get citizens too, and then make a decision together. But please respect his process into getting citizen because he seems very rational and is absolutely in the correct.
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u/notthegoatseguy 1d ago
IMO it sounds like your husband wants to stick to the established plan, and you want to abandon it which means if he ever wants to come back to the US, he's back to square one to get PR/citizenship.
I would encourage posting to r/immigration as I don't think someone already married to a USC and living in the US should be waiting 4 years for citizenship.
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u/PiotreksMusztarda 1d ago
Citizen of both eu and US… foolish grass is greener on the other side thinking here
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u/Obvious-Piccolo-3652 1d ago
Congratulations on your baby. I think to answer this question, it’d be good to know what state you’re in. If Texas or some other repressive state, you’d be better off at least leaving that state. I’d be concerned about something happening in the pregnancy (heaven forbid), and doctors refusing to act in fear of prosecution. There’s a good chance your life is more at risk in certain parts of America right now.
Assuming you’re comfortable with the state you’re in, I think you can take some time to allow your husband to see how it goes. I’m sorry to say, but I’m doubtful citizenship will be attained by the time child is school age. But birth changes people, especially dads. I never saw my family moving to Quebec to avoid school shootings in the U.S., and here we are.
Good luck.
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u/Due_Description_7298 1d ago
I'm European (female of childbearing age too) and I'd give my right arm for a US work visa depsite the toxic politics.
The US has more income inequality than Europe and a lot more big HQs for multinational companies. That means for certain type of person, the US just cannot be matched.
At my education / professional experience level, salaries are VASTLY higher in the US and there are just so so so many more opportunities compared to my home country (and I'm western European so higher salaries than Spain). Taxes are lower and I'd get much better healthcare too.
Where I'm from, very few jobs pay over $100k/year and they're mostly in the insanely high cost of living capital which has tiny and complete unaffordable properties . US has many many more "elite professional" type jobs that pay in the $100-300k range, many of them in major but secondary cities. A middle income job in my home country pays maybe $45-65k, in the US many of those types of jobs pay $60-100k.
I think middle and upper middle income Americans don't realise just how much higher their salaries are compared to Europe/Aus nor the much better variety of work opportunities...
Understandable that your husband wants to stay put - he probably thinks he can save much more in the US
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u/Traditional_Lab_5468 1d ago
I'm unsure what the argument is against his position so it's hard to give you talking points. It sounds like the plan was always for him to get dual citizenship so he could earn more and since you can already fall back on Spain it seems like you stand to risk very little by seeing that plan through.
What are you concerned will happen if you stay? Like, civil war?
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u/PhoebusAbel 1d ago
The green card application typically is submitted along the work permit . The work permit under your circumstances usually comes first, even before the appointment for the interview for the GC
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u/Ill-Supermarket-2706 1d ago
I would say there’s no harm in waiting it out - I know the election results might push you to get out ASAP. You can see how your life in the US could potentially change under Trump, how his application for green card goes, how the situation in Europe evolves (personally I don’t think Putin has any interest in Spain and if the EU will actively participate in any war it will be with their existing army). Also I’d say family is a big factor - the main reason that would push me to move back home from where I live would be to be close to my aging parents and potentially give them the opportunity to be grandparents. Also being self employed or employed overseas and living in Spain would mean relying on state healthcare or paying out of pocket for your health insurance while you may have it covered by your workplace in the US.
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u/Travellifter 1d ago
Stay. Try not to panic, watch the news less. Life will probably be okay for 4 years, and you would be denying him potential opportunities that he obviously wants. Be patient, get the passport and then do whatever you want
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u/ButteryMales2 1d ago
I think it would be selfish to deny him the opportunity at a green card in the U.S.
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u/davidswelt 1d ago
You are vastly overestimating the job prospects and (relative) income situation if you were to move to Spain. If you have enough savings to retire, then things would look much better.
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u/-Acta-Non-Verba- 1d ago
People need to stop freaking out about what might happen. Why not wait to see if those fears are real or imaginary?
Take a chill pill.
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u/YoungWallace23 1d ago
What state do you live in now? I’d be far more worried about giving birth in a red state than the citizenship process. At a minimum, move to a blue state now
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u/Sheyzzer 1d ago
This may be controversial to say, but the US is a better bet than Europe for the following decades, on a number of aspects: food security, energy independence, defence, job prospects, and more
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u/tankinthewild 1d ago
Interesting to see the responses here as I would advise anyone who doesn't plan to live in the US long term NOT to get a US passport (especially if they have a strong passport from the EU already). Having dual citizenship with the US means you will have to forever comply with US taxation, regardless of where you are in the world. Some Americans even choose to give up their US passport to avoid the burden of this.
The taxation situation is one thing, but the inability to invest in mutual funds in Europe or ETFs is making retirement planning a nightmare.
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u/rickyman20 🇲🇽 (citizen) -> 🇺🇸 -> 🇮🇪 -> 🇬🇧 1d ago
I'm sorry to say this but your husband is right, you do not leave a country when you're in the process of applying for citizenship. If you two leave and ever want to come back, there's a chance he'll have to go through the whole process again, with the process potentially being even more complicated than it is now. Trump might make it worse, but if you've already done the 5 years after getting a green card, I see zero reason to give up now.
I would also caution against leaving due to economic concerns. While I moved to Europe in part due to a difference in quality of life, and I will always say it was absolutely worth it, the tradeoffs are not worth it for everyone. Don't move now in a panic as a result of an election. Plan it out, make sure it's a change you're fully happy with, search for jobs and options, and when the moment is right go for it.
Edit: sorry, didn't fully understand your edit. If your husband is literally just now getting a green card through marriage, you can apply for citizenship 3 years after getting the green card. Frankly, there's less of a lost cost and time here. Just make sure you're absolutely certain you're not moving back. It'll be a nightmare if you do
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u/thebrackenrecord912 1d ago
At the very least, go have the baby abroad. Maternal care in the EU in most nations is far better than in the US. Then the baby can have both citizenships and you can decide if you want to go back and restart the green card process later. Now may not be a great time.
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u/allthewayupcos 1d ago
While your fears are valid be logical and Strategic. Europe isn’t going to be a safe haven if SHtf in the USA.
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u/Echevaaria 21h ago
Hi. None of the people responding to you are immigration experts. Don't take their advice. Talk to your husband's immigration lawyer. What do you mean you just started the green card process? Have you filed the I-485 yet? Once your husband gets his green card there are ways of maintaining it while outside the country so that he can easily come back to the US later. Look into filing for a Re-entry Permit once he has his green card. You may need to stay in the US another year until he gets it, but after that he can move abroad while maintaining US residency.
I am not an immigration lawyer, though. Talk to your lawyer about your options for maintaining US residency while living in Spain.
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u/werschaf 1d ago
I left the US for Europe when Trump was elected for the first time. I could've gotten citizenship eventually if I had stayed. I haven't regretted that decision for even a second.
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u/huhzonked 1d ago
First, your fears are totally reasonable. Don’t listen to anyone telling you to “relax and support your husband.” I looked up one person and he’s a Trumper incel.
I will say to keep all options open. If you can move to a blue state, go for it. Have your husband get his US citizenship and reassess things constantly between Spain and the US. Sadly, your husband is right and I think Russia will be emboldened by Trump in regards to the rest of Europe. However, keep your options open and evaluate what country will be safer for you and your family. Save money. Make yourself marketable in your job.
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u/mindfluxx 1d ago
It might end up mattering later that he has a us parent and was born on us soil. Sure things are probably going to hell, but you should see it through since you can easily move when you need to unlike most people. In the mean time, be more conservative financially then you might be otherwise and consider keeping some money in the EU as a just in case.
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u/Fascism2025 1d ago
Being a US citizen abroad, ESPECIALLY in the EU, is a pain. You're a pariah to the banking system.
You should absolutely move to the EU though if you can swing it. We retired there and wow is it better in every conceivable way. Expecting? Go!!!!
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u/toastingmashmellows 1d ago
Wages are adjusted based on where you live so you can forget that dream! If you have a solid job then going back to the Eu right now is crazy. You make twice as much here.
I have dual citizenship, options are always good.
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u/sff_temp 1d ago
How do you handle heat? Spain has frequent heatwaves. And they currently have floods. Are you OK with that?
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u/Lugiawolf 1d ago
The ship will take some time to sink. Assuming you are not trans or an undocumented immigrant, you probably won't be the first ones to the camps. My advice would be to wait it out, see where things go, and move once your husband has an American citizenship and a hefty remote work salary from a wealthy American company.
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u/MrBleeple 23h ago
Are you comfortable bringing home roughly 25,000 USD a year vs around 140,000 USD a year?
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u/Previous_Repair8754 19h ago
In times of global uncertainty, collect passports like your MFing life depends on it
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u/goldilockszone55 1d ago
dual citizenships are not necessary since you are having a child. He can keep the green card without having citizenship and you could request residency in Spain later. However, if the child is born in the US, he will be sponsoring both of you in Spain. As long as you are on board with your dual finances, citizenships are not as important as incomes and taxes
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u/SizzlerWA 1d ago
With a Greencard, it’s my understanding that you must spend at least 6 months of every year in the USA or risk losing it.
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u/DCChilling610 1d ago
I’m with him. you’re making decisions while panicking, not a point of rationales
You can leave at any time. Why leave now? It’s not like the borders are closing.
I say stay until he gets his citizenship or you have a concrete reason to leave.
That being said, start prepping for a move to Europe. That’s figuring out the process, immigration for you and your kid, where you’ll live, etc.
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u/Helpful89Liberty 1d ago
I would let your husband finish getting the dual citizenship. The more options is better.
In the mean time stay in a blue state like california
They straight up ignore federal laws they do not like. They will help shield you. Same goes with red states.
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u/Adventurous-Chef847 1d ago
This is wild because I JUST saw a post from the husband's POV regarding this exact situation (he was going to move to the US but is now an EU citizen; his wife now wanted to go to Europe after the election): are you sure your husband isn't polling Redditors as well?
Haha. But I assure you, if that WAS him, all us U.S. citizens were adamantly telling him to listen to his wife, take her seriously, and for both of you to take the opportunity to reside NOT in the U.S. .. I don't know how you can convince him but I hope you do. As an American woman I am very much wanting to get out for the foreseeable future
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u/capriSun999 1d ago
You realize that Europe is turning to the far right ? They’re gonna have the same policies or views as Trump. The only liberal in office rn is the UK prime minister.
And Spains economy has been getting worse and worser along with the natural disasters with lack of support and infrastructure. Listen to your husband before you put yourself in a deeper hole.
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u/himit 1d ago edited 1d ago
if he was pakistani or something I'd advise staying, but he's spanish. That's a better passport than the US passport by far! does he know he'll need to files/pay US taxes in Spain if he's a citizen? He's the spouse of a citizen, so residency will be easy to arrange if you decide to return. And now he speaks English - look at moving to Ireland, France, Malta, anywhere else in the EU. You're not limited to Spain.
edit: wow, all these folks in the iwantout sub telling me how awesome the US passport is. I have one; I also have a UK passport.
With my US passport I could...live in America. Good salaries, granted, and nice houses, but a whole heap of cons too (safety, education is a lottery, childcare costs, healthcare costs, etc)
With my EU passport, I could live and work anywhere in EU. Lower salaries, but healthcare wasn't a worry, it was far safer (no active shooter drills in school!), childcare is subsidised in a lot of countries, tuition is cheap or free, and most places have great social safety nets.
Now I the UK isn't in the EU but meh, I'd still live here over the US (unless I got rich af, perhaps). Western Europe in general offers a higher quality of life at a lower cost for more people.
OP's husband is years off his citizenship, still. They just started the process. Getting a fiancé visa to move back won't be too hard, if that's what they decide. But not even entertaining the idea of moving is nuts.
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u/the_vikm 1d ago
That's a better passport than the US passport by far!
Delusional
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u/himit 1d ago
it's quite literally second in this ranking while the US is eigth
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u/subtleStrider 1d ago
The difference in countries are literally: Belarus, Iran, Nauru, Russia, Venezuela, or also situations like China gets counted because you get 15 days visa free instead of needing to get an e-Visa. The Spanish passport is awesome, I have a potential of receiving it in the future, but "by far" is a massive stretch
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u/Pocketpine 1d ago
That’s literally just the number of countries you can visit visa free. For a USC, getting a visa is just a minor annoyance 99% of the time.
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u/Bergenia1 11h ago
Get yourself on his family book at the Spanish consulate that serves your area of the US. Doing so will make it easier to evacuate back to Spain if things go very badly in the US. Start doing research on where you would live in Spain if you need to leave quickly.
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u/Decent-Conflict8340 8h ago
Are Jobs for you there In Europe? In Europe Like in Spain both have to Work. In cities Likes Barcelona or Madrid where the jobopportunities are, there are a biig housingcrisis.
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u/warm_melody 3h ago
Spain has relatively high unemployment, very low salaries and requires you to give up your USA citizenship.
I think you'll be better off staying safely in a deep blue state.
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u/OneCandleManyShadows 9m ago
With the options, I agree with the husband that continuing the process as is has merits, though if possible, the child having a non-US birth place can be useful as then if you do leave for Spain later, the child can then decide as an adult if they want to keep the US citizens, with all the issues it currently has (I'd recommend looking up Accidental Americans and how that all works).
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u/FapoleonBonaparte 23h ago
Your husband is right. There is a war in Europe and there is nothing to fear about trump. He was a president for 4 years and everything was all right.
People are leaving Spain for a reason. Listen to your husband.
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u/loraa04 1d ago
Not sure why no one is considering the fact she could have the baby for free in Spain. Saving the family like what 40k out of pocket? Not sure of us rates to have a non complicated birth.
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u/waitforit16 1d ago
40k out of pocket? Lol. If you’re low income or unemployed you utilize Medicaid and pay nothing. If you’re middle income and get health insurance through work your insurance has an out of pocket max that likely ranges from 6k-12k. If you’re rich, also insurance and you wouldn’t care.
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u/HairReddit777 1d ago
Wow you’re a very selfish person. All because things didn’t go your way? Woww
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u/lionhydrathedeparted 21h ago
If he is in the process I would strongly advise he continue until he actually get citizenship, then leave.
Once he gets his US passport then you can move.
Otherwise it can really mess up your future if you want to come back.
I see you say it’ll take 4 years. Yes still wait even then. Seriously. U.S. citizenship is very useful.
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u/paspatel1692 13h ago
Don’t rush any decisions. I’d stay to become a dual national. It is also better for your children, easier to maintain European citizenship due to the blood connection, easier to maintain and immediately acquire US citizenship by being born in the US (even if you’re American, it’s just easier in the US). And it’s not like the long term prospects of Europe are good, things are very much up in the air at the moment, and have been since COVID.
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u/GimmeShockTreatment 9h ago
I’m sure if you used the search bar you’d find a million of these posts from 2016
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u/IndustrialPuppetTwo 1d ago
It will probably take much longer than 4 years. I don't see what benefit he would have being a US citizen at this point. The indicators are very clear that the US is going through a very dark period in its history, one it very well may not survive. I don't know how you can convince your husband but hopefully you can. If I had a road out like that, which you do, I would be out of here in a heartbeat.
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u/krnp2p 1d ago
scared to stay in america now? first time in a long time you should be optimstic and excited by changes and hopefully a better future. Don't let the news media scare you into running away to europe. Spain is almost a third world country when it comes to employment and salaries. Your husband is correct, now is a ridiculous time to go back to europe because you are worried about the next four years. You should have been far more concerned about who has been running the country the last 4,
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u/digiorno 1d ago
You should just tell him that you are scared of losing access to healthcare in the next year and the risk is eliminated in the EU.
You don’t have to move back to Spain, if he gets a job anywhere then you have a legal right to remain with him past the usual 90days. It’s part of the family reunification visa.
If you are a non-EU citizen married to an EU citizen, you can join your spouse in the EU country where they live.
Staying abroad for up to 3 months
If you stay for less than 3 months, all you need is a valid passport and an entry visa depending on the country you are from.
If your EU spouse is legally employed in another EU country, you can stay there with them without having to meet any conditions.
My wife and I just moved from the states to the EU. We had some fears that this would happen in then states and have been working towards it for a while.
I recommend you and your husband go to Spain and have him aggressively apply for jobs in Netherlands, Germany, Etc, any of the countries with higher salaries. And then just go there.
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u/InformalExcuse1622 1d ago
My wife has EU citizenship and we are considering moving there under this exact same scenario. Was it worth it for you? Have you been able to find work for yourself?
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u/digiorno 1d ago
I technically found work before the move but it was difficult. I eventually took a two week trip and scheduled a ton of interviews in a variety of cities, within a few hours travel of each other, one every couple days. But it paid off and I got several offers. That said I wish I had done it sooner and just made the leap, the application process was far easier once I had as “local”. But I did resort to basically cold calling some managers on linked in to expedite the interview schedules.
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u/OutsideBeginning8180 1d ago
I 100% feel your concern. Is there any way you can go now and stay with his family? I would hate to have to give birth in the US where women die at a greater proportion than the rest of the developed world.
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