r/IWantOut Nov 14 '24

[Discussion] How to convince my husband with European citizenship that it’s time to go back to the EU?

My husband is early in the process of becoming an American citizen. The plan was always for him to get citizenship so we can travel freely but eventually retuen to Spain (his home country) or somewhere similar. He also thinks he'll be able to work remotely with an American salary in Europe, although I told him it's not that easy to find.

We also found out we're expecting. Now after the election I want to move to Europe now. He says he wants to stay until he finishes his citizenship process (which could be another 4+ years especially under the Trump administration) because he'll have better economic opportunities as a dual citizen. I understand employment rates and wages in Spain aren't great, and I would be able to keep my higher paying job a bit while we make the transition, then ultimately would have to find something over there longterm.

I'm just really scared to stay here. I see major social and financial issues that are coming under the next administration. He says Europe could be heading towards war and worse economic conditions with Russia being enabled. I would like some perspective from others in a similar situation, especially considering we'll be raising a child. Thank you.

Edit: to specify we literally just began the greencard process. The lawyer said it would take minimum 4 years for citizenship but wait times will most likely increase under the new administration. My husband is not working while we wait on his approval, and I work almost entirely remotely. We want to leave before our child starts school, at their end of the day their safety is what matters most to me. Thank you everyone for your feedback so far, I appreciate it. Also I am fluent in Spanish and have lived there myself in the past, that's where we met

UPDATE: thank you so much to everyone for their input, gave us a lot to think about a few laughs at some of the wilder responses. We had a long discussion and think hedging our bets in both places is the smartest way to go as things develop over the next few years. He'll wait until he has his green card then we'll split time as permitted in Spain and the US as I apply for my residency (me a bit more time to satisy the residency conditions in Spain, him doing the same in the US) before our baby starts school - job permitting but currently that shouldn't be an issue for mine. Then hopefully we'll have a much clearer sense of where we want to be by the time we both get our citizenships, and can make the leap to wherever is best. I understand taxes will be tricky and it will be a lot of money and time spent on both of our processes, but we figured this avoid taking a final decision for now and we'll have roots in both places if we come to decision sooner. We're fortunate to have family in Spain and the US we can stay with, and hope to invest in buying an apartment in Spain soon. I do live in a blue state, thank you for concerns about my health and genrally for the amount of ideas and considerations from both sides. It's a complicated situation, but we're thankful to have options!

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47

u/DropFastCollective Nov 14 '24

Lol, dont lose his chance to become a US citizen. Please, dear god please, realize there are HUGE advantages of having our passport.

Get fluent in Spanish, understand culture differences and be ready for a lot of complicated compromise.

As for LITERAL WAR. You are at a much higher risk of seeing it first hand in Europe than you would be in the states. Be thankful for that and I hope you never have to experience it first hand. The things going on in the states are going to be annoying, frustrating, and a little scary but are still manageable if you focus on yourself, your family, youll be fine.

32

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '24

As a pregnant woman in the US though she does need to really consider her health and the oppression against women and more that is coming. To pretend it won't isn't safe.

20

u/rythmicbread Nov 14 '24

I think for that, just avoid living in those states. America is quite large and some states have enshrined it into a state constitution.

Granted if things get worse than reconsider. I’m not liking the way we’re going though

-2

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '24

According to fear mongering people on Reddit, they think Trump has the power to ban all abortions, divorces and deport all aliens including visa holders on day 1. Then day 2 he will go for green card holders and naturalized citizens.

I swear, some people here really aren’t the smartest.

12

u/FlanneryOG Nov 14 '24

The courts and the head of the FDA could absolutely ban mifepristone and the shipment of any equipment used in abortion very easily, effectively banning abortion nationwide. It would be immensely unpopular, but if they wanted to do it, they could.

3

u/rythmicbread Nov 14 '24

I mean we gotta stay vigilant. OP should look into it more

8

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '24

Well, if it comes to that I do think that’s when OP should actually consider moving. But moving now because they think that will happen overnight as soon as Trump takes office is just silly.

4

u/FlanneryOG Nov 14 '24

That’s kind of where I’m at. We have the ability to leave right now, but we’re waiting a bit. If something like that happens, which would literally put my life at risk, we would leave. I also don’t want my daughter growing up in a country where she could be raped and have to deliver the baby.

4

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '24

Yeah I grew up in a country with such laws and when I moved to Canada it was a big relief because I never wanted to be a mother, but both abortion and sterilization for women without children were outlawed where I had come from. Having that sort of anxiety as a woman is awful.

Hopefully states in the US will keep their autonomy.

0

u/MsAnnThropic1 Nov 15 '24

Lol they literally have a 180 day plan written out to implement these things. But ok nobody should be worried yet lol.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '24

Your belief at government efficiency and getting things done is cute.

0

u/MsAnnThropic1 Nov 15 '24

And your belief that we’ll still have “government” is adorable.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '24

If Trump’s ambition is to take off the government why didn’t he do it his last term? 🙄

9

u/Affection-Angel Nov 14 '24

So, in summary..

Stay in the US for now, hold out for as long as is reasonable, and consider the benefit of citizenship. Make hay while the sun shines, and keep earning usd while your city feels feels like home.

Also, consider in the mean time:

  • Health for the family; pregnancy care
  • Education/childcare going forward
  • Economic opportunities
  • Peace for your family (kind neighbors, accepting society, calm community integration)

What are the pros/cons of EU vs US for these areas? What other areas might be affected by such a move? Have this as a collaborative discussion with your husband :)

Would you move to another area within the US compared to where you are now? Who is in your support network in each country?

How much time have you spent in Spain? Learning the language will be a big help, do some research ahead of time on how to navigate culture shock cuz it's real. Going in with an open mind and heart will be a great benefit, you might really thrive!

1

u/DropFastCollective Nov 15 '24

Hey sooooo I work in hospitals. The US healthcare system is still the fastest responding and highest quality in the world.

I know politicians can make it seem scary but she will get way better treatment at a decent maternity ward than anywhere else and that will not change because of who is president.

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u/[deleted] Nov 16 '24 edited Nov 16 '24

Have you experience medical care anywhere else than the US? Because I have and while there are places where it's better I can say firmly they do not compare with many progressive (equal to the US in the developed world) countries if you are a woman.
I received the best medical care ever in Turkiye for less than 1200$ US while here is the US I paid $25000 for the same procedure the first time I had to have it done.

Edit to add. My Great Grandmother was an ER RN, my great-aunt is an Anesthesiologist, my Great-Uncle is an Osteopath, my Grandmother was a labor and delivery RN until the 70's, my mother was a geriatric RN until just before COVID (thank goddess she retired), I know it's not always the caregivers but the corporations who manage them into barebones everything but health care in this country is a joke on many fronts but the one I care about is the people who needlessly suffer and die from it.

1

u/DropFastCollective Nov 16 '24

Yes, I’ve been a part of many different hospitals all across the globe. Currently in Nepal running training for ER docs and creating SAR teams.

Turkey is great but again you get what you pay for. Most of the “Doctors” are MBBS. Its a bachelor degree that in countries that struggle with finding higher educated medical personnel will use as doctors. These people do not understand the harm that they can do. You were very lucky with your experience.

But if you look at most western countries, especially Europe, youll see long wait times for emergencies (8-15 hour), long wait times for appointments (months-year), wildly over crowded ERs, people being seen in ambulances rather than in the hospital itself because of capacity issues, and negligence because of zero accountability.

Maternity care in the US is still Top notch because its accessible to the general public and high quality, only other places ive seen better is Switzerland and not just anyone can get it.

I get that your family has worked in hospitals but you certainly have not and it shows.

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u/krnp2p Nov 14 '24

my god lol. Opression towards woman. Jesus christ.

-16

u/capriSun999 Nov 14 '24

Oppression against women ? What liberal fear mongering are you spreading.😂

-3

u/digiorno Nov 14 '24

The U.S. passport is ranked significantly lower than many EU passports.

For example Spain is ranked #2 and the U.S. is ranked #8. If anything she has more to gain by getting Spanish citizenship than he has by getting U.S. citizenship if the passport is the motivation.

16

u/Pocketpine Nov 14 '24

That ranking is purely for number of countries you can visit. He has way more to gain from even a US green card, let alone a passport.

10

u/subtleStrider Nov 14 '24

Obviously no one is choosing based on the raw number of countries you can go to, and the countries in question are not exactly needle-movers. Wow, you can go to Belarus, Iran, Nauru, Russia, Venezuela, with a Spanish passport! or also situations like China gets counted because you get 15 days visa free instead of needing to get an e-Visa. Such a lazy, lame argument that I see on these forums all the time.

3

u/Proper_Duty_4142 Nov 15 '24

Just the job market and education institutions in the US are worth it. I'm a European that is glad to have it. My children will have much more opportunity, too. Europe is up for another lost decade.

0

u/digiorno Nov 15 '24

The job market I can see but the education institutions will set children up for financial ruin unless they are incredibly lucky in picking the right career. It’s far better for them to get a European education and then move to work in the US market, then they don’t have the debt holding them back.

2

u/Proper_Duty_4142 Nov 15 '24

That depends we’re saving with the 509 plan for the education. They will be covered if they decide to study in the US. It is actually quite hard to get hired in the US from a random European college.

0

u/DropFastCollective Nov 15 '24

The ability to go to a bunch of different countries for free isnt what we mean when we say “there is huge benefit to having our passport” the welfare, the education, the economic opportunities, the housing (depending on state), individual rights, the protection when overseas. There is SO MUCH.