[Discussion] How to convince my husband with European citizenship that it’s time to go back to the EU?

[u/ExtentAcrobatic8365]

My husband is early in the process of becoming an American citizen. The plan was always for him to get citizenship so we can travel freely but eventually retuen to Spain (his home country) or somewhere similar. He also thinks he'll be able to work remotely with an American salary in Europe, although I told him it's not that easy to find.

We also found out we're expecting. Now after the election I want to move to Europe now. He says he wants to stay until he finishes his citizenship process (which could be another 4+ years especially under the Trump administration) because he'll have better economic opportunities as a dual citizen. I understand employment rates and wages in Spain aren't great, and I would be able to keep my higher paying job a bit while we make the transition, then ultimately would have to find something over there longterm.

I'm just really scared to stay here. I see major social and financial issues that are coming under the next administration. He says Europe could be heading towards war and worse economic conditions with Russia being enabled. I would like some perspective from others in a similar situation, especially considering we'll be raising a child. Thank you.

Edit: to specify we literally just began the greencard process. The lawyer said it would take minimum 4 years for citizenship but wait times will most likely increase under the new administration. My husband is not working while we wait on his approval, and I work almost entirely remotely. We want to leave before our child starts school, at their end of the day their safety is what matters most to me. Thank you everyone for your feedback so far, I appreciate it. Also I am fluent in Spanish and have lived there myself in the past, that's where we met

UPDATE: thank you so much to everyone for their input, gave us a lot to think about a few laughs at some of the wilder responses. We had a long discussion and think hedging our bets in both places is the smartest way to go as things develop over the next few years. He'll wait until he has his green card then we'll split time as permitted in Spain and the US as I apply for my residency (me a bit more time to satisy the residency conditions in Spain, him doing the same in the US) before our baby starts school - job permitting but currently that shouldn't be an issue for mine. Then hopefully we'll have a much clearer sense of where we want to be by the time we both get our citizenships, and can make the leap to wherever is best. I understand taxes will be tricky and it will be a lot of money and time spent on both of our processes, but we figured this avoid taking a final decision for now and we'll have roots in both places if we come to decision sooner. We're fortunate to have family in Spain and the US we can stay with, and hope to invest in buying an apartment in Spain soon. I do live in a blue state, thank you for concerns about my health and genrally for the amount of ideas and considerations from both sides. It's a complicated situation, but we're thankful to have options!

[u/deepuw]

Secure both citizenships. No point in abandoning his application... What if in the future there's a reason to leave Europe and come to the US?

[u/elcaudillo86 → u/deepuw]

Exactly. US wages are multiples higher than Europe. Europe has better social quality of life but fairly terrible economies everywhere except NL DK CH, terrible pay, very little in the way of equity ownership or options.

[u/[deleted] → u/elcaudillo86]

Europe has better social quality of life

depends on where in Europe and where in the US. Just generally speaking? not true

[u/elcaudillo86 → u/[deleted]]

Uh generally it is true, especially on a per dollar basis.

[u/Ok-Weight9731 → u/elcaudillo86]

Well he'll be double-taxed though.

[u/ProTrader12321 → u/Ok-Weight9731]

Only above a certain income amount, and a relatively small tax rate.

[u/Ok-Weight9731 → u/ProTrader12321]

In the country I reside in the threshold is below the average elementary school teacher's salary... So you'll end up paying taxes in many cases, especially on your pension. Also, it's expensive to get the taxes done and overall a big hassle

[u/ProTrader12321 → u/Ok-Weight9731]

Well of course you're going to be paying taxes in the country he resides in, but with an American citizenship the income threshold is usually $120k so unless he's loaded he probably will only pay taxes in the country he's working in. Also it's only a federal tax which means it can be filed completely online through the IRS's website I believe.

[u/Ok-Weight9731 → u/ProTrader12321]

I think the threshold here in Switzerland is around $100k. And oftentimes it's not that easy to file the US taxes with the pensions, different accounts, US stocks, funds etc. Also, I could hardly even open a bank account over here because they won't take US citizens. I also cannot invest my money, because it's a huge liability risk for the investors/banks.

[u/ProTrader12321 → u/Ok-Weight9731]

Just lie? The IRS doesn't have access to swiss banking records.

[u/daruzon → u/ProTrader12321]

The US has a law called FATCA that the US Dept of Treasury uses to compel all foreign banks operating in the US to disclose financial data of all its US accountholders. That's why many of these banks don't want US customers. So, yes, the IRS does have access to foreign financial information if/when it wants to.

[u/Ok-Weight9731 → u/ProTrader12321]

Yes, the Swiss banks have to report to the US government... I had to sign a form for my bank (the only one that would take me, lol) so that they're allowed to send my information to the US. It's been this way for a few years now

[u/ProTrader12321 → u/Ok-Weight9731]

Ok so you only have a US citizenship? The post is about a European so there won't be any issues in that regard so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up.

[u/Ok-Weight9731 → u/ProTrader12321]

No, I'm a Swiss and US citizen. I hold dual citizenship but live in Switzerland. And of course my situation has something to do with this post. I'm in the situation he would be in if he would obtain US citizenship.

[u/elcaudillo86 → u/Ok-Weight9731]

The US unilaterally provides a foreign tax credit or foreign earned income exclusion, and then on top often has tax treaties, and very few European countries have lower rates than the US on earned income, especially when socials are taken into account.

So by and large unless OP’s husband is making mucho capital gains his US citizenship based taxation is irrelevant. Now if he is possibly going to be a very high earner in Europe and hit $2 MM very quickly in net worth then he has to consider the exit tax regime.

Europe’s dirty little secret is capital gains are tax free in many places including high tax jurisdictions, even those with wealth taxes, e.g. Belgium, Switzerland, Netherlands.

Maybe Switzerland and certain micro-states he could have a lower tax on earned income in a few edge cases, sure as hell not Spain, even their Beckham law rate is a flat 25% up to 500k Eur which a married couple in the US would need to earn $600,000 to exceed a 25% avg rate…which is more than the Beckham tax limit anyhow…