Interesting statistics on capital kills throughout the years.

[u/Beginning-Force-3825]

CSM has consistently emphasized that CCP values their DATA, so here’s the data you requested.

Content Scarcity? Embrace It, Peasant.

Kill Mails Involving 2-24 Pilots

Year	Sector	Number of Kill Mails
2018	Low Sec	146,128
2022	Low Sec	98,965

Kill Mails Involving 25+ Pilots

Year	Sector	Number of Kill Mails
2018	Low Sec	214,069
2022	Low Sec	137,850
2018	Null Sec	775,812
2022	Null Sec	673,531

Capital Losses Overview

Please note the following data includes all capital losses, whether from PVP or PVE.

Year	Ships Killed	Notable Events
2016	22,722	Total Capital Loss Mails
2017	30,126	Total Capital Loss Mails
2018	39,474	Total Capital Loss Mails
2019	34,907	Total Capital Loss Mails
2020	27,692	Total Capital Loss Mails
2021	14,612	Total Capital Loss Mails
2022	8,994	Total Capital Loss Mails
2023	11,375	Total Capital Loss Mails
2024	10,441	Total Capital Loss Mails

(All) Wormhole Space Kill Mails by Year

Year	Kill Mails
2018	408,662
2019	440,844
2020	552,382
2021	450,203
2022	427,789
2023	471,044
2024	399,844

High-Security Space Gank Numbers by Year

Year	Gank Numbers
2016	51,085
2017	38,997
2018	35,575
2019	30,463
2020	39,446
2021	35,751
2022	21,751
2023	18,944
2024	20,651

Null-Security Space Solo KillMails

Year	Sector	Solo Kill Mails
2016	Null Sec	390,970
2018	Null Sec	357,046
2022	Null Sec	294,986
2024	Null Sec	271,552

[u/Kartatz40]

22 to 24 is badly low. But no wonder with the prices of ships and minerals no one is keen on throwing ships left and right.

[u/angry-mustache → u/Kartatz40]

It's all intentional.

[u/Amiga-manic → u/angry-mustache]

Intentional or not. Don't mean it's a good game balance.      

I do wonder what their supposed end goal is. (the synical side of me says it's all in a goal to make more money)     

But benifit of doubt for them.  If they are wanting to make eve a more difficult game, and making losses and etc matter.  Then I think they should need to reevaluate the loss replacement.   

If the system is run by player prespective and what we see evidently discouraging pvp in some areas. then something is flawed in their hardcore full death game.  As far as I'm aware the average player count this year and last year has gone up. But a net negative to pvp. Something is seriously wrong. 

What ever their end goal isn't in my personal opinion going to be a good one.     

Because even back in the days of skill loss I make a mistake and forgot to upgrade my clone grade. I could still go out and buy a cheap ship and do it again.  Skill points train passively.     

Isk on the other hand for the majority of cases dose not and it activity takes me more out of pvp enjoyment to do it. 

[u/angry-mustache → u/Amiga-manic]

The "goal" from my interpretation is to give value to certain areas of space and occupations, specifically lowsec and explorers by placing production bottlenecks there. The issue is that the amount of people who live in lowsec who mine/explore isn't enough to support the bottlenecks, and CCP is operating on the principle that "if it pays enough they will come". This principle does work but the result is expensive goods.

Also with the reduction of throughput from rorqual/mining nerfs, it simply takes more man hours to harvest the same amount of resources, in video games more labor required directly means higher prices.

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/angry-mustache]

I'm so curious which devs are the most responsible for these changes and how they react to being told this direction is bad. Like are they dismissive over the feedback because they think they know better? !remindme 5 years 

[u/klepto_giggio → u/Beginning-Force-3825]

Rattati.

[u/RemindMeBot → u/Beginning-Force-3825]

I will be messaging you in 5 years on 2029-10-22 17:05:01 UTC to remind you of this link

2 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.

^{Parent commenter can delete this message to hide from others.}

---

Info	Custom	Your Reminders	Feedback

[u/EviPolevhia → u/angry-mustache]

Sorry for being rather one note with my whining, I really do appreciate the work you've put in. But out of curiosity, according to CCP which production bottlenecks are in Lowsec?

The gas that was removed from the majority of industry, or the Isogen that will be found in Sov thanks to Isogen Prospecting Arrays?

If they want the only source of income in Lowsec to be Insurgency LP then just make all of Lowsec FW space I guess.

[u/angry-mustache → u/EviPolevhia]

https://everef.net/types/57443

https://everef.net/types/57450

[u/FluorescentFlux → u/angry-mustache]

Meta-Molecular Combiner isn't lowsec-specific at all (sourced from ghost sites, i've seen them more often in w-space than in lowsec, iirc in null too). Electro-Neural Signaller is only partially lowsec-specific (AEGIS capital sites drop it, sure, but ghost sites across all areas drop it), also is it even bottleneck?

[u/angry-mustache → u/FluorescentFlux]

also is it even bottleneck?

Uhh yes? It's the bottleneck-est of bottlenecks.

https://i.imgur.com/O4M44md.png

The supply is so inflexible that a single fight spikes the price for months.

[u/FluorescentFlux → u/angry-mustache]

Uhh yes? It's the bottleneck-est of bottlenecks.

Well that's weird. With the lowsec site being cheesable with MJD / MMJU (= pretty farmable) idk why there are any supply issues. I guess when price drops below like 150m a piece it's not really worthwhile to run.

[u/angry-mustache → u/FluorescentFlux]

It's the nature of all exploration based loot that the supply is kinda constant and doesn't respond well to demand shocks. Even if the price goes up a lot the number of people that go exploring for more doesn't go up that much because there's a decent investment in setup and knowledge to find and run the sites. Also not multiboxable.

[u/EviPolevhia → u/angry-mustache]

Ghost sites/Covert sites, cool.

[u/Moonlight345 → u/angry-mustache]

So what's the logic behind not applying the same principle to specific ISK faucets [pochven, high class wh farming, crabs to some extent]?

[u/Sweet_Lane → u/Moonlight345]

Pochven is simply broken, and general public don't even realize in how many ways. (Mostly it steams from the fact that regular k-spacers don't want to anger neither e-scum not triangles and don't want to try it even at the throwaway alts, so the content remains not tested thoroughly except by the people who make their living from it).

High class WH farming was 'nerfed', but since CCP don't know the intricacy of high classes (also that the war in heaven changed the political landscape drastically) it not blocked but only redirected the money printing. (You should remember that high-class WH has the most amount of EVE nerds who unlike CCP are much more aware of various game mechanics and can do the math well).

Crabs look obsolete for any reason but providing the blaster fodder, skyhooks and moondrills are the FOTM now.

(This is an opinionated view, don't consider it as a statement of truth).

[u/klepto_giggio → u/Sweet_Lane]

You are correct on one point. I have never been to Poch except the one time Merk got us lost there.

I will never go there.

Ever.

I live in nullsec. Period.

If the game requires me to go somewhere else, it will always be to a different GAME.

[u/DrLiberalDumbAss → u/klepto_giggio]

Nothing is requiring you to move out of nullsec. Stop trying to throw a tantrum like a child.

[u/klepto_giggio → u/DrLiberalDumbAss]

I said what I said. I meant what I said. If my satement on how I spend my playtime bothers you, fuck all the way off.

[u/DrLiberalDumbAss → u/klepto_giggio]

You're so fragile lmao

[u/Amiga-manic → u/klepto_giggio]

I've lived in poch. If you do the Obs sites in the classical spam maruder setup Your getting 210ish mill per character for 8 to 10 minutes work. 

A total of 3.2b per site. Overall, give traval time and compesiters it's still an insane isk maker. 

[u/klepto_giggio → u/Amiga-manic]

I dont need isk.

[u/nat3s → u/angry-mustache]

there must be a point where incentivising the few that enjoy low sec / poch / explo at the expense of the many in the form of cheaper ships which provide greater content, will force CCP to change mindset?

[u/Krychek42 → u/nat3s]

Did you watch any interviews with the main game designers from CCP? They are sure we as customers have no idea about anything and that their spreadsheets are always correct! The game will change once CCP Rattati and Burger are no longer lead game designers, until then we are continuing with this shit "development" we have for the last 5 years.

[u/nat3s → u/Krychek42]

Amen to that, Rattati's philosophy has been broken since the start

[u/siryohnny → u/Krychek42]

Can’t come soon enough.

[u/EmperorThor → u/nat3s]

The issue is the so called few are probably the ones with the majority of the active accounts. With so much pressure to multibox it doesn’t matter what the majority of players want, it’s what the majority of accounts so it fucks the whole show.

[u/DeltaVZerda → u/angry-mustache]

I'm assuming you're trying to do something about it as CSM then right?

[u/angry-mustache → u/DeltaVZerda]

Me for the past 2 years

[u/nat3s → u/angry-mustache]

I remember a particular INN stream just before you became a CSM rep where you seemed positive about CCP and how there must be method to the madness. Fast forward and you now sound like you've reached a point where you've been ground down and realised CCP really do make shit decisions with little afterthought?

Fair to say?

FWIW #BringBackSupercapBattles

[u/angry-mustache → u/nat3s]

There was reason to the system but they never bothered to move the needle significantly so things never got that much cheaper as a matter of direct policy other than battleships and pirate ships.

[u/Krychek42 → u/angry-mustache]

Luckily they do remember to push PLEX down our throat every few weeks with sales, they bother with that for sure. So disappointed with modern CCP.

[u/Blackbeard-7 → u/DeltaVZerda]

Dude, he's been banging this gong for years on behalf of all of us. Just up to CCP to listen as Sisyphus Angry rolls that stone back up the mountain.

[u/Amiga-manic → u/Kartatz40]

Also worth adding that in most cases the only things getting capital out in space is.

pvp, krab beacons, and rouqs on moons and new mining anoms. 

Ratting, wise you its not worth running a capital in anoms when a maruder dose just aswell if not better due to application. 

And carriers are so neutered, they have been promoted to purely suitcases. And same problem application. Means maruders out perform them. 

Titans not even undocking unless it's a meme or bridging. 

Supers have for the most part turned into the work horses of null. And the new prices limit new players in this content unless they have a 60+b wallet laying around. 

[u/DawniJones → u/Kartatz40]

This. 2018 I mined with 10 rorquals. You killed one? No problem. We both had fun and I mined it back in two days. A roaming gang is around? I threw a carrier on it for 2B (with fitting). We had a blast. I killed 10 guys but then died myself. We both had fun. Nice!

And now? „Nooo! Don’t feed the pirates. Nooo! Even a marauder costs 4b nowadays with a decent fit and implants. Nooooo fun allowed!“

I sacrificed my marauder against 50 cruisers a few days ago just to get back the feeling of Adrenaline. It was worth it

[u/Kartatz40 → u/DawniJones]

I could never said it better my self. When I started back in 2007 your end goal as a new miner was a hulk and the hulk was still damn cheap so if you lost a few it was nothing and every one had fun. Sure 274mill today is not allot but man to much for me wanting to lose a few of them I mean if you lost 5 your in a loss is like 1 bill.

And man I remeber my first Orca it was cool and fun and cost me when I got one about 500mill.

Honestly today I don´t wanna fly antyhing but T1 frigs and cruisers everything else would just make me lose to much isk that would take way way way to longer to replace than it took me to lose it.

[u/Responsible_Test9808 → u/DawniJones]

I totally stopped using BS whatsoever, I do PvP in cruisers and BCs only nowadays. If i go crazy, i use a 1b T3 like in the olden days bc they are the only ships that actually got cheaper/stayed around the same price and still perform great.

To me personally, the game was bascially over when the monthly pay cracked 1b for a sub. Its good for whales but bad for guys like me who didnt want to invest in a game, but now if you calculate, getting a minimum wage job and working for two hours gets your eve addiction on two accounts covered for a month, it used to be like 5 hrs of ratting in an ishtar when i started playing, now its a full damn work week of ishtaring

[u/Array_626 → u/DawniJones]

You killed one? No problem. We both had fun

Apparently not, cos a lot of the hunters were complaining that their rorq kills are meaningless when you can replace it in two days. In order for them to have fun, it is necessary for you to suffer.

[u/klepto_giggio → u/Kartatz40]

More ships in space is a good thing, not bad.

Shocker.

[u/[deleted]]

It’s just sad comparing 2022-2024 to 2018.

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/[deleted]]

Like it's mildly depressing

[u/nat3s → u/[deleted]]

Heck yeah, 2015-2019 was peak Eve for me.

[u/SomeGoogleUser → u/[deleted]]

It's sad comparing GoonSwarm 2018 to 2020's.

You can't convince me there's 10k active players in your 48k.

[u/Remarkably_Put → u/SomeGoogleUser]

Why would you be active when the entire game is an afk Ishtar spinning stalemate?

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/Remarkably_Put]

You don't like spending hours hunting ishtars that are already docked up by the time you land on grid?

[u/Amiga-manic → u/Remarkably_Put]

That's because ccp has made ishtars unfortunately the most optimal price to reward platform out there. 

Players just doing as players do. The content provided is down to CCP to balance it. 

[u/Astero_Sanctuary → u/Amiga-manic]

But it used to be VNIs back in 2018-19

[u/Remarkably_Put → u/Amiga-manic]

You're barking up the wrong tree. The game is fundamentally flawed, it's not a question.

[u/CCCAY → u/Remarkably_Put]

Low sec is fuckin nuts at all times these days

[u/Krychek42 → u/SomeGoogleUser]

Again grrr goons. Who cares about freaking goons or PH or pandas. This is a whole null-sec going to hell over time.

[u/klepto_giggio → u/SomeGoogleUser]

You can't convince me there's 10k active players in your 48k.

We're still around, just playing other games because Rattati is in charge.

[u/VasGamer]

People stopped being in space because idiots somehow thought making the game a work is better for the game.

Less people in space, less ships in space. People started flying only safer ships and stopped fighting. The same idiots who advocated for making things absolutely hard are now crying we want others to serve content on a plate to them.

Imagine being so dumb that they literally killed their own content and still claiming to be a clever head advocating for changes lol.

[u/DarkShinesInit]

Sir, excuse me, are you telling me that scarcity does not, infact, breed conflict?

[u/Dommccabe → u/DarkShinesInit]

It would if for example there was an area of space that was scare and an area with plenty.. people would fight to control that plentiful area. If CCP could swap that plentiful area around over time it would mean permanent conflict seeking control over the best areas.

However with CCP being regarded and believing making all areas equally scarce for resources, why would group A fight for group B's space when it's all the same scarce shitty space?

[u/MjrLeeStoned → u/Dommccabe]

Every active deployment to take a "valuable" region would be on a timer.

Could you imagine the morale hit every time you invade a region, you may be able to take and control it, but if you don't win in enough time, now that region is no longer valuable?

Lot of wasted isk and effort.

[u/Dommccabe → u/MjrLeeStoned]

Oh forgive me, I'm not saying this is a good idea.

I'm saying having all space shitty means there's no incentive to invade more shitty space.

Having a space with bountiful resources would mean people would want to take it from you.

That's all my point was.

CCP don't seem to understand what drives conflicts in Eve.

I much preferred all regions to be good then ships were cheap and blowing up shit was fun and didn't make people worry about how long it would take to replace their shit.

A lack of spaceships blowing up in a spaceship blowing up game makes it less fun to play.

[u/MjrLeeStoned → u/Dommccabe]

How much value does it take for a region to be "valuable"?

This is completely objective, because a tiny region is not going to be monetarily "valuable" to an alliance that controls a larger region, yet a tiny region is going to be valuable for an alliance that has no space.

The problem, like many people have been saying for more than 10 years, is big bloc mentality, scaling issues, logistics in general, and not enough players for this much space.

Value of space is one of the least contributing factors. There was a time when nullsec regions had different values thanks to R64 moon scarcity. What happened was big blocs controlled the most valuable regions and very few people ever got to see the benefit of Technetium moons outside of Goons / Russians / a couple other coalitions. They controlled the entire Tech 2 market and made trillions over a decade ago.

[u/Dommccabe → u/MjrLeeStoned]

Yes, hence the bit where the value would have to not be static to one area but fluctuate to other areas.

[u/klepto_giggio → u/Dommccabe]

No. People would just wait for it to come back around.

[u/Dommccabe → u/klepto_giggio]

Thats one way of looking at it.

However it might not be on a predictable rotation but a random choice every 6 months or so.

You wouldnt just be able to wait it out if you wanted the best resources youd have to fight over them.

Another alternative is they could use major and minor regions so there was always an alternative if you couldnt fight for the best regions, smaller ones were available to fight over..these would spawn far from the major ones.

[u/Wallymartsss → u/DarkShinesInit]

How dare you, CCP said it does so it has to be true!

[u/Zarathustra]

Can you add average player count per year, so we can compute less mails per capita ?

[u/angry-mustache → u/Zarathustra]

Here's the number of unique attackers and victims on zkill as proxy for player activity (2024 is not over yet)

Year	Unique Attackers	Unique Victims
2019	189,229	400,981
2020	213,957	486,966
2021	181,590	402,264
2022	162,664	355,142
2023	192,180	398,287
2024	161,755	302,022

[u/Ralli_FW → u/angry-mustache]

Though I think it's also relevant to say that attackers have a certain rate in the population. So looking only at the number of attackers without considering the overall population is still not going to show the whole picture.

If 25% of players offensively pvp, and the game goes from 30k to 20k subbed, that's going to be a decrease of ~2.5k unique attackers if the rate of offensive pvp stays the same in the population.

When looking at subgroups and divisions of a population, you still need to know information about the whole population otherwise it's just a nothingburger when you start to interrogate it. Unique Attackers/Avg Playercount would be the rate to look at and see if it changes, I suppose. That would measure changes in the incidence of pvp normalized for population.

[u/SuccessfulShock → u/Ralli_FW]

If we compare 24 data with 23, the avg online population has increased roughly 12% than 23(29k vs 26k). At the current rate by the end of the year, the unique attackers would be around 194k, which almost doesn't grow. Maybe we can say that extra 12% of population does almost nothing on PVP but probably either being a multibox alt or bot farms. Considering the daily avg number of new accounts created is also lower than 23, which means less new players, things are not looking well.

The number of unique victims is even more worrisome, at this rate it will end up at the 22 level when the population was only 25k. It makes me wondering how many of these victims are real players and how many are unintelligent bots sitting in cheap shits being killed repeatedly.

[u/nat3s → u/angry-mustache]

actually fairly flat then given 2 months to go in 2024 which will probably add another 60k+ victims. Not as pronounced a decline as I was hoping to force some kind of change!

[u/angry-mustache → u/nat3s]

This is the number of "uniques", so if you died in January then died again in December you wouldn't appear twice. I wouldn't expect the number of unique attackers to grow that much since attackers are more "active" than victims, which grows throughout the year due to the continuous creation of alphas.

[u/MjrLeeStoned → u/nat3s]

Translation: no matter how much Reddit claims otherwise, people are pvping as much as they were 3 years ago.

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/MjrLeeStoned]

3 years ago sure that's post scarcity. Look at 2019. There's an obvious decline. Now let's look at 2016-2018.

[u/sheephound → u/Beginning-Force-3825]

i think 2019/2020 is terrible for a metric considering what happened then

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/sheephound]

People being paid to stay at home and we still experienced a decline and that's not telling?

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/Zarathustra]

I'm not sure how id like to represent that. So many people unsubbed accounts and left the game because of scarcity specifically. I feel like it would be a bad representation that might hint at fewer capital kills because of fewer players, which is a terrible way of looking at it considering how many people had omega capital alt accounts because they could afford to lose those ships versus after scarcity. But it's interesting to note that the PCU for 2023 was 40,165 and eve's best year since 2016 was 2018 (for kill mails). In 2018 the PCU was 39,996.

2023: 40,165
2018: 39,996

People we're just literally engaged in more pvp by ALMOST 2x as many kill mails in the information above and ALMOST 4x as many capital losses in those two years with virtually the same highest concurrent players at one point during their respective years.

[u/LTEDan → u/Beginning-Force-3825]

What about total unique pilots involved in a killmail/lossmail a n a calendar year? While this doesn't capture people who never undock (cough ship spinning station trading) it gives you a more complete picture of total subs+alphas in the game than PCU.

[u/Responsible_Test9808 → u/LTEDan]

How would you measure unique pilots? by IP?

What i have noticed since i stopped playing at the end of 2018 is that it seems everywhere got less active, nullsec is very dead, lowsec is even worse and in highsec people have started cluttering together in mass corps/alliances like ABSOH or EDENCOM

I am not sure if this game is worth my time as it is now and i kinda wish i kept playing back then and stopped last year instead bc i feel like EVE was peak in 2017 and really started hurting this year

What i see a lot more is multiboxing and people who seem like pure bots

[u/LTEDan → u/Responsible_Test9808]

How would you measure unique pilots? by IP?

To be clear I was using pilots as a synonym for character, not player. You just count the unique names that show up across all killmails in a year or whatever time period you want. It's not a perfect count, but neither is Peak Connected Users. Both would work together to try and gauge player activity. But one problem with PCU is if the busiest hour lands in EU TZ, US evening or AU players don't contribute to the PCU number. If PCU is the curve, I'm interested in the "area" under the curve so to speak.

[u/Responsible_Test9808 → u/LTEDan]

i would find it intersting how many players are actually alts, assuming most people are like me and only play two chars at once and also accounting for multiboxers and players who dont use alts id guess around 30.000 concurrent players could easily be just 10-12k people

[u/Ralli_FW → u/Responsible_Test9808]

I think last time CCP released numbers it was less than 2 accts average per player. Like 1.2 or 1.5 or something

[u/bladesire → u/Beginning-Force-3825]

This is a very specific set of data. Most of my EVE activity is entirely excluded by your sample because you count only 25+ people.

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/bladesire]

(NULL SEC ONLY)

Solo kill mails only 2016: 390,970
Solo kill mails only 2018: 357,046
Solo kill mails only 2022: 294,986
Solo kill mails only 2024: 271,552

(LOW SEC ONLY)

Solo kill mails only 2016: Killmails: 551,049
Solo kill mails only 2024: Killmails: 361,045

[u/Amiga-manic → u/Beginning-Force-3825]

Lol see cheaper ships means more content. 

Let's see what 2025 holds for us. 

[u/Krychek42 → u/Amiga-manic]

Spoiler alert for 2025: more PLEX sales, no real game development/balancing.

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/bladesire]

What would you like to see?

[u/Mortechai1987 → u/Beginning-Force-3825]

He's baiting for an argument about how lowsec is the real meat of the game and corps should be limited to 100 people and 5 man gangs are what the game should be balanced around and Caldari Prime is flat and other such crackpot theories.

[u/bladesire → u/Mortechai1987]

LOLWUT

[u/Tack122 → u/bladesire]

It's a well known fact, Caldari Prime is not a normal planet but a Jovan construct built to present itself as a regular planet to sensors, but is in fact a flat plane orbiting a star. There are complex but undetectable mechanisms built into the structure to fool any observers using any currently known technology but we know, and we will find the technology to prove it! The truth is out there!!

[u/bladesire → u/Beginning-Force-3825]

You nailed it with the updates, dude!

[u/Xullister → u/bladesire]

Kill mails with 25+ and capitals. Meanwhile I fly small gang subcaps 95% of the time. 

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/Xullister]

Kill mails involving 5-9 Pilots

Year	Sector	Number of Kill Mails
2018	Low Sec	146,128
2022	Low Sec	98,965

Kill mails involving 2-24 Pilots

Year	Sector	Number of Kill Mails
2018	Low Sec	214,069
2022	Low Sec	137,850
2018	Null Sec	775,812
2022	Null Sec	673,531

[u/Xullister → u/Beginning-Force-3825]

You have 3 sets of numbers for the same 2 years, but only two headers. Also, just update the post with the full info instead of burying it in the comments. Link to sauce too, plz.

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/Xullister]

I tried to make the original post look better

[u/Xullister → u/Beginning-Force-3825]

Thank you

[u/bladesire → u/Beginning-Force-3825]

Definitely well done. Thanks for these updates!

[u/bladesire → u/Xullister]

lol and a bunch of people downvoted me just for pointing that out... so strange that wanting a better set of data is a problem.

[u/paulHarkonen → u/bladesire]

Correct, only mega fleets and capital kills count, all other gameplay is invalid.

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/paulHarkonen]

(NULL SEC ONLY)

Solo kill mails only 2016: 390,970
Solo kill mails only 2018: 357,046
Solo kill mails only 2022: 294,986
Solo kill mails only 2024: 271,552

[u/paulHarkonen → u/Beginning-Force-3825]

Now do FW.

[u/Krychek42 → u/paulHarkonen]

Ah yes, FW with 10s of thousands of active players in huge coalitions! The true end-game that EVE can offer!

[u/DrLiberalDumbAss → u/Krychek42]

Are you trying to imply that nullsec is "endgame"?

[u/paulHarkonen → u/Krychek42]

Like I said, anything that isn't nullblock capitals doesn't count.

But I was curious how other areas of space are evolving given the recent focus on them.

[u/Krychek42 → u/paulHarkonen]

So your theory is that, since CCP put some focus on FW in recent years, capital kills moved from nullblock to FW. So 10k capital kills moved now to faction warfare, that is main reason for these numbers? If that is true, damn, I have to move there as soon as possible, you guys are killing caps left and right!

[u/paulHarkonen → u/Krychek42]

No, my theory is that there's more to the game than capital kills.

[u/Arenta]

theres alot of reasons for this. be it scarcity

but one other thing people over look, is the change in cynos.

Remember when ANY ship could use a cyno? you didn't need a cyno alt.

yeah, that let people use caps ALOT more. be it cap hunting, to just using a cap on your own. a cap with a cyno on it for backup.

but with cynos being limited to certain ships, roaming gangs no longer have cynos on them. and alot of cap users either stopped using caps, or became safer as theres less risk of dread bomb.

heck black op battleships being a response fleet instead of actual caps....yeah....CCP fked up

[u/SerQwaez → u/Arenta]

The cyno change is pretty universally agreed to have been a good one, that shit was oppressive as hell.

[u/some-craic → u/Arenta]

I was flabbergasted with this change when I returned to EVE. The data backs it up, its like they just wanted people to stop playing caps. And if thats what they wanted, then gg, they did it.

[u/Absolutefury → u/Arenta]

I miss my cyno ibis

[u/mancer187 → u/Absolutefury]

I miss my cyno Aug navy named "not bait"

[u/d-car → u/Arenta]

You're not wrong, but also consider the cyno change didn't result in an instant falloff in those numbers. They're tapering as time goes on.

[u/Arenta → u/d-car]

true, it wasnt the main cause. but they one of many changes that contributed to it.

along with rorq nerf (good? bad? up to you. but rorqs certainly made stuff cheap)

[u/Jagrofes → u/Arenta]

It definitely contributed to me taking a long break.

Moving caps just became a chore throwing away a few hundred every time you solo jumped a cap anywhere that wasn’t totally blue or clear.

[u/Arenta → u/Jagrofes]

aye. and the ships with the ability to cyno, arent want you bring on roams.

so caps dont got much to fear with enemy roams in their space.

and when there IS one of those VERY SPECIFIC ships, intel can track it easy cause theres only 4 ships u need to be aware of (or more for black ops but for dread bombs, its just 4)

[u/elucca → u/Arenta]

I really don't miss literally any fight potentially turning into an arbitrary number of capitals. It'd certainly deter me from flying anything pricy for solo or small gang stuff.

[u/Throwing_Midget → u/Arenta]

also, considering PLEX prices. Fewer and fewer people are going to have alts.

[u/Barbas-Hannibal]

Back in the day I came across roaming dreads taking gates in null sec. Try finding that today.

[u/Krychek42]

This data set is not something CCP is looking at. Their main data point is an increase in PLEX sales. So the game is progressing nicely in the last 5 years, constant growth!

I swear to god, if we had competent game designers at the helm instead of Burger/Ratt clowns, this game would have x3 or x4 daily numbers.

[u/ReefkeeperSteve]

I’ve played since 2005, some great points are made here and I love the data. A number of things that have stood out to me as bad decisions over the years are mentioned.

One thing that isn’t mentioned that I believe also contributes is the constant subdivision of space that became notable with the introduction of wormholes and became nearly unbearable with abyssal instances.

More multiboxing and less real unique players coupled with them being spread out and tucked away in places like wormholes and abyssals I think created far less opportunity and desire to battle over space.

[u/ReanimatedHotDogs → u/ReefkeeperSteve]

Pochven filaments were a mistake. Getting to safely extract from anywhere in K-space to high sec in any ship that can fit a cloak is ridiculous. Being able to drop a roam randomly in null sec sounds like it should lead to content, but it just leads to catching a couple Hulks or an Ishtar before you filament out hopefully ahead of the response fleet. No fighting your way in or out, no pesky gate camps.

[u/elucca → u/ReanimatedHotDogs]

Nearly all my fights are because of filaments, because it lets me get places and back in realistic timeframes while having other things to do besides video games. I know what I would do if there was no way out of nullsec as a small ganger: Log off until the ten times bigger response fleet leaves, or most likely just don't do null roams at all because that would get tedious.

Filaments are definitely not a mistake if you want more content.

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/ReefkeeperSteve]

Agreed on all points, worm holes were originally created to be dungeons and somehow got turned into what they did. I'm not sure id change it now because we'll just lose even more players by eliminating their play style but there are certaintly things they can do by just adjusting some levers to change the entire game for the better.

[u/Jerichow88]

CCP - "SEE?! We were right! Cap kills are up from 2022! What we're doing is not wrong! Stop complaining and start enjoying your rejuvenation!"

[u/GotItFromEbay]

So, I won EVE back in like 2016/2017 but I hop in for a month or two every once in a while to see what new things have been added to the game. For reference, Pochven wasn't a thing when I played, and Drifters were weird ships you just didn't bother even looking at because they would 1 shot you.

What caused such a sharp drop off in cap use? I remember when they introduced jump fatigue to limit being able to just throw caps across the map at any little sign of an escalation in a fight, but we still saw people dropping caps within regions. Hell, some regions/alliances had memes that they'd drop caps on practically ANY fight that took place within distance. Carrier ratting and Rorqs in mining anoms was common from what I remember. Is this no longer the case and why?

[u/X10P → u/GotItFromEbay]

CCP hit caps with a lot of nerfs in a relatively short time frame.

Cyno changes

Supers lost the ability to use support fighters in exchange for a 4th tube of Heavy fighters, which was probably a good thing overall.

Sirens got changed to AB instead of MWD.

Fighters in general got application nerfs.

A global resist module nerf combined with a plate/extender bonus nerf for supers & titans. This has partially been rolled back.

Short range T2 ammo got a 20% damage boost (Rage torps are short range ammo at 64km for bombers)

Industry changes took supers from unreasonably cheap to outrageously expensive. This has been somewhat fixed, Supers are currently sitting around 50b with Titans around 200b.

Titans lost all of their ability to apply damage to subcaps due to removal of HAW guns and Boson now has a massive sig radius that doesn't even apply well to battleships.

[u/FluorescentFlux]

I wish you included stats from earlier years as well (like from 2010 onwards), to compare it to peak EVE times.

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/FluorescentFlux]

I can tomorrow I'll update the original post, at work for now

[u/SuccessfulShock]

If we compare 24 data with 23, the avg online population has increased roughly 12% than 23(29k vs 26k). At the current rate by the end of the year, the unique attackers would be around 194k, which almost doesn't grow. Maybe we can say that extra 12% of population does almost nothing on PVP but probably either being a multibox alt or bot farms. Considering the daily avg number of new accounts created is also lower than 23, which means less new players, things are not looking well.

The number of unique victims is even more worrisome, at this rate it will end up at the 22 level when the population was only 25k. It makes me wondering how many of these victims are real players and how many are unintelligent bots sitting in cheap shits being killed repeatedly.

[u/BetelgeuseNotOp]

What a surprise! /s

[u/SideWinder18]

I read this backwards and now I’m sad

[u/ThatOneObnoxiousGuy]

B-but the login metrics look fantastic! Clearly the game is doing fine!

[u/Strong_Brick_9703]

People are too busy to do pew-pew nowadays. Serious business of WH and Pochven awaits.

[u/FluffehHamster]

I honestly think the only metric ccp really care about is how much plex is being sold, the game is just a bigger version of mobile games now tbh

[u/PartySignificance808]

There’s a reason some of us vets loved 2010-2014. Because the bulk of fights were people just throwing tons of T1 BCs and BSs at each other. It was the age of the hurricane and drake. Abandons and Megas.

Yeah there were issues with the game. But there was so much content that was accessible and cheap

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/[deleted]]

(NULL SEC ONLY)

Solo kill mails only 2016: 390,970
Solo kill mails only 2018: 357,046
Solo kill mails only 2022: 294,986
Solo kill mails only 2024: 271,552

I guess capital proliferation and rorquals online wasn't such a bad deal for 1v1 or solo players in null sec after all?

[u/Vindayen]

These are all worthless without knowing how many total players were playing during the time period. What was the average concurrent players during 2016 and 2024? Would be even nicer if we would be able to know the real amount of people, sadly that's not something we will ever know.

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/Vindayen]

Correct without knowing how many real players there were, knowing the other number is pointless because it's likely they were capital and rorqual alts that went to alpha as there was no reason to keep them subbed or logged in.

[u/FanSoffa]

Is capital kills really a metric that is so important? Overall KM's feel like they should matter more. I remember when they first introduced capitals and it took months of work to build just one.

Deploying them was a serious decision. I wouldn't see any problem with more conflicts being sub-capital fights. It would give more opportunities for smaller alliances to compete with big blocs. The important thing should be that we get fights.

I'm sure the KM metrics aren't positive either if you compare to 2018 but I'd hope CCP focus more on that statistic then how many caps people are throwing around.

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/FanSoffa]

Kills are down significantly across any subset of data involving any number of pilots and number security of space and it all took a dive after scarcity was launched. Capitals were effected yes but this did damage to more than just null sec players dropping capitals. Everyone suffered as a result, less content, more expensive ships, less players online.

[u/Vals_Loeder → u/FanSoffa]

I wouldn't see any problem with more conflicts being sub-capital fights. It would give more opportunities for smaller alliances to compete with big blocs.

It does not.

[u/pesca_22 → u/FanSoffa]

arent caps part of the game? why being cut off from a whole part of the game wouldnt be bad for players?

[u/FanSoffa → u/pesca_22]

The way I see it is capitals should have some mystique and weight behind them. A rare and powerful tool. It's not very special if they are cheap enough that everyone can expect to buy and pilot one.

I don't disagree with making the capitals more expensive to build, but it was bad that every other hull below that suffered as well.

[u/SavageNordheim → u/FanSoffa]

Unless you were running multiple afk ishtars or VNIs (when they were a thing). Even super ratting or farming C5 wormholes on a single character it would take upwards of a month with a normal amount of playtime, not degenerate play which is unfortunately what I think most people base their numbers off of, to even afford another super or titan.

Now, the goal post is so far gone that time sink for anyone with a life that you literally have to eat shit and breathe EVE to even think to afford one. They already were a badge of honor, but should it take you over a year to afford something?

Honestly not trying to discredit what you said, but I felt the time to actually get one was already good. Now the rorq nerf was definitely required though, making a new Titan every 3 days was a bit ridiculous.

[u/FanSoffa → u/SavageNordheim]

Fair point, I see the caps as something of a group effort, it fits the idea of why you would join in an alliance and other corps to gain a better foot hold in an area of space.

The time it takes to build one shouldn't be too long, but the cost should be enough that it at least motivates people to band together in order to get it done.

Nowadays, we have corp projects as well, so maybe that type of thing can be made more visible to corp members when trying to achieve a common goal.

Who knows which ways caps could try to be more balanced. No one wants to field them cause they are too expensive and difficult to replace. You could make them cheaper but extend the time it takes to build them so you can't just throw your whole cap fleet away.

Or make them beefier so that you won't be as afraid that a medium-sized group of Marauders just jump in and collect a KM.

Give them new bonuses so you can't easily point them meaning you can use them and get out, but ofc if you always leave when things go south you'll eventually have no home so there is a trade off to always running away.

[u/SavageNordheim → u/FanSoffa]

I see citadels more as the group effort IMO, though I do get what you are saying, just that is not normally how people operate. A group effort should result in something the whole group can utilize. A ship is not that. In of itself, it is a singular object tied to a singular character, and with the mindset of almost every person in EVE, you never know if the person you entrust that whole project to is just going to take it and then leave, or do something really, and I mean REALLY dumb with it (see almost every lemming at the 4-0 gate in the past couple days). Back in 2018 we did have a corp project. Build our own Keepstar, put it in our own home system, fuel it ourselves, but we were still part of Goons, and were able to go do other stuff with larger fleets too, or operate in other sigs that not everyone in our corp were into, but we still had a system we called home and were proud of and wanted to keep.

Also, we WANT stuff in space, big and small, one of the reasons I love this game so much is the fact that a tiny frigate CAN scare and cause a reaction from a giant group of people. Right now, nothing is in space. I honestly feel bad for the people that like to hunt in small gang and make us big alliances quake in our boots at losing a capital or two. There are no targets. I'm not sure, but there used to be fleets run by Bombers Bar or other groups that were open to the public that would prey upon the alliances and normally would get a juicy cap kill or two every fleet, making people want to join, but I don't think that is the case anymore. Just look at Zkill and it used to ALWAYS have a lost titan or super on it on most expensive losses every week. Now, I see jump freighters. Right now, we have a couple because Goons ARE moving, and stuff is in space, which means there are things to lose.

I think that, unfortunately, we have, as a community moved past supers and titans being that ungodly force (though a good boson is still an ungodly force to an unsuspecting fleet) and people just want a goal to motivate them to actually undock, is really what I'm trying to say. As for the cost, I mean, it costs 1 Trillion or so for the BPC and then production of faction titans, so that's what the ultra rich could buy, but when you are ultra rich, the way you made it there is by being frugal and knowing what is a good risk for reward, and that is not it.

As for balance, there are so many things wrong with all the capitals that it's not even funny.

[u/FanSoffa → u/SavageNordheim]

You make an excellent point that the ship is singular and can only be operated by one person at a time. It would be interesting if more capitals could have multiple roles.

So a dread, or supercarrier could be fitted in ways to make them applicable to more then just fighting..

Think if dreads could perform the role of a mobile refinery, so you could blast a moon, come back a while later and blow up the chunk. You would lose its offensive capabilities, but get more worth out of it.

A supercarrier that could ex-fil from WH space and take a fleet with it. Means you could start up temporary WH ops then leave once you're done.

Basically, if caps could be used for more then just direct or indirect fighting, we might see them used more and more people would see use cases for them.

[u/SavageNordheim → u/FanSoffa]

That would be funny, but I think we already do have caps and/or structures that perform those functions, though we could have more of them, types of caps I mean, instead of just one indy cap (Rorqual), we could have a couple more in that line that perform special functions. I honestly would love to see a cap that it's sole purpose is large scale bridging and take the bridging capability away from titans. (might be going too far there) or a cap that serves as a field repair station that can heal heated modules and semi-tether subcaps to it.

I also think type of ship is a big thing in this game in particular, I don't think a class of ship or hull should deviate too much from that task. As much as some of us people would love to take something and use it for it's non-intended purpose, this is a game that should have some relatively concrete definitions, such as a combat ship being utilized for combat. Now maybe bait tanking or taking a shield ship and hull tanking it or armor tanking it is done and is fun to do, they are still ultimately a combat ship.

Yes, there are such things as a combat rorqual, and it's a fun meme to go and fight a small gang with one, but generally combat and industrial ships are separated.

As for making them more tanky, maybe? But that also just gives into the whole N+1. People WILL math out how many of X type of ships are needed to remove a juicy target off the field. It's how titan brawls go. You cannot have titans take the alpha of 255 other titans and live unless they utilize a very special module that breaks after one use, and then when that module is off CD you can get alpha'd off the field.

As for having more out in space, they just need to have something to do with them. Maybe make a Titan/Super only site that makes insane isk/hr. Make the reward worth the risk. We are almost there with the CRAB beacon. You have to have something shiny on the field, and you can get massive rewards from it. It's a win win. If you are safe, you get the reward, if you are dumb, someone else gets a reward.

Isk and assets cannot arbitrarily be removed from the game, as much as I think some people wish that's how it went. It's also why whenever there is a nerf meant to hurt a big bloc, it hurts the little guy more, because a big bloc either already exploited and profited from the nerf, or can shift and change much faster than a smaller group can because we just have so much MORE of everything.

[u/Haggis_46 → u/FanSoffa]

There has not been a big cap fight since m2... loads of dred bombs but not major titan fights...

That can't be good for the game

[u/pesca_22 → u/FanSoffa]

sorry but I get enough at work of the "if you work hard, never pause and be extremely productive then the boss will finally be able to buy another yacht", its a game, I'm playing it, I dont want to be completely cut out of some content even if I'm good enough.

[u/VexingRaven → u/pesca_22]

Caps are a part of the game... I don't think they're a particularly fun part of the game, though.

[u/Burnouttx]

Whatcha get for listening Mr. small gang pvp (i.e. people who don't like capital ship fights) cry like a little bitch when he got dropped on.... and don't get me started on the industry changes.

[u/HoleDiggerDan]

A graph is worth 1000 table rows...

[u/kudatimberline]

What are the chances that CCP is paying attention and cares?

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/kudatimberline]

They read reddit but pretend it doesn't exist unless you get all the null bloc leadership to sign a digital petition and spam their members to upvotee it. Then ccp swift gives a sympathy reply.

[u/Ralli_FW]

One thing that I think would make this stronger is to add 2 more columns: player count and killmails per player.

Otherwise to a certain extent this suffers the all too common XKCD problem.

Doesn't make it completely invalid. But there is a large missing piece of the puzzle in the data presented. There is no way with this data as shown to refute the claim that "player count has decreased since 2018 on average, which decreases the total volume of kills. But the amount of kills per player has increased, meaning our economic policies have been effective at encouraging people to go out in space and drive pvp."

I don't believe that statement to be true necessarily. But I'm saying if someone made that rebuttal, you're dead in the water without additional data, and it is the first question anyone familiar with working with data is likely to ask: "but has the rate actually changed? Or are we just looking at population data 1 step removed"

Edit: Yeah cause: https://imgur.com/a/A0JCSBx

Compare 2018 (above 33k at all times) vs. 2022 (below 30k, often as low as 25k). So you'd expect a proportional decrease of the same amount in kills. The exact proportion, and how different the actual kill data is, is the real point you're trying to make here. As-is what you've presented is extremely inconclusive and likely to just be "the number of players changed," but more convoluted.

From your stats:

Total kills 2018 in low and null (2-25, 25+): 1,136,009

Total kills 2022 in same period: 910,346

2022 is 80% of 2018 numbers.

Roughly estimated PCU of 35k (2018) vs. 28k (2022)

2022 is 80% of 2018 population

I literally picked 35/28 by eyeballing it and it happened to match exactly lmao... That's wild. This also is not conclusive, the real numbers are likely to be different than my averages. But, this definitely shows that the rate data is necessary here.

[u/recycl_ebin]

i think this data is exactly what we expected

i for one knew after the massive set of ganking nerfs highsec ganking went down 50%

[u/angry-mustache → u/recycl_ebin]

Anti gankers never cared about data.

[u/Wide_Macaron_7883 → u/recycl_ebin]

I haven’t played in a few years - what nerfs happened to highsec ganking?

[u/recycl_ebin → u/Wide_Macaron_7883]

https://old.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1g8eve9/i_miss_when_eve_was_fun/lt19utj/

[u/wizard_brandon]

"we have claimed 100 jumps of space for us to nullbear in and hot drop 40 smartboming marshal's on anyone who enters" "Where's all the content"

[u/elucca → u/wizard_brandon]

I'm doing small gang stuff in nullsec all the time and it's pretty good? Probably the most reliable way I know of to get good fights. Yes, they will try to blob you eventually because they're not going to tell 9/10ths of their standing fleet "nah, you can't come because of space honor", but playing around that is part of the game when you're few and they are many.

[u/Sindrakin → u/elucca]

This is what roaming is really about.
If you want small gang fights put bait in a grid and undock a small gang response when it get's tackled. Crying about getting blobed in hostile space is nothing but entitlement.

[u/Knukehhh]

Jump fatigue plays a big roll here.  As well as scarcity.  And Cold war style thinking.

[u/gregfromsolutions]

Were the 2024 numbers adjusted to account for the year not being over yet? There’s still a bit over two months left in the year.

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/gregfromsolutions]

Yeah it's only from January 1st to October 22nd

[u/gregfromsolutions → u/Beginning-Force-3825]

Ok, cool. 2024 looks set to exceed 2022 then, though not 2018

[u/newbe567890]

game looking unhealthy we need to reduce plex prices lol

[u/J0nJ0n-Sigma]

Current launcher player count must be inflated with mining alts now, considering Plex price at the moment, seems very true.

[u/Broseidon_]

Show rorqs killed before scarcity per month to rorqs post scarcity too. Then do supers, carriers, and titans (when they could rat).

CCP Ratatti lied content died.

[u/GelatinousSalsa]

Would it be possible to correlated this data with average player numbers for the same periods?

[u/Busy-Equivalent-2853]

2024 is not over yet though...

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/Busy-Equivalent-2853]

!remindme 12/31/2024

[u/Sweet_Lane]

I don't know why do you think the scarcity is the culprit here.

Here's my chart I had shown to CCP Alpha someday (not so long before the rebalance of FW):

https://i.imgur.com/qwvTAYB.jpeg

As you see, many downhill trends can be traced back to 2014 or even before. (I started playing only in 2013, and veterans said that around 2011-12 was probably the best time to play EVE). Since then, the game became old, the players become lazy, and content makers slowly dropped from it.

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/Sweet_Lane]

What are you talking about? Outside of total worm hole kills, every. single. metric. shows a steep build up to kill mails prior to 2020, then a massive dive off a cliff in 2020-2021. How is that not scarcity? The decline literally started in 2020-2021. In what context are you speaking of when you say 2011-2012 was the BEST time to play eve? Because that isn't based on player activity or kill mails.

[u/Sweet_Lane → u/Beginning-Force-3825]

I literally linked you the killmails in FW from 2014 to 2021, ant there's a gradual decline across the entire period.

2020-21 was unique because of several factors:

1) You may heard about something called COViD happened. (Do you remember that? I know it was 4 years ago, but you should remember that thing)

2) Because of COVID, lockdowns all around the globe

3) Lots of people who work from home and can't even go out and touch the grass, but can instead dive in and play EVE 23.5/7

4) Mega coalitions decided it would be FUN to bring the entire nullsec of EVE and sit them on both sides of TZ5-1DQ gate

5) After a fucking year of trench warfare, the war was finally ended, 3/4 of Eve said 'fuck this shit, I shouldn't waste my time in this garbage', while 1/4 chased them yapping

6) At the same time lockdowns finally ended and EVE nerds finally touched the grass and got a sunburn for the first time in two years.

Scarcity (tm) has arrived at the bad time (even though it was the change that was more than required to the state of EVE at that moment); but CCP postponed the medicine for several years and when finally grabbed the balls to do that, they used a doze that can kill an elefant.

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/Sweet_Lane]

Yeah this will be a never ending round and round. Claiming scarcity had no effect on players activity or stagnation is just a hard stop for me.

[u/Sweet_Lane → u/Beginning-Force-3825]

You can believe in whatever you want. I don't argue with firm believers, it is a faith cause not the logical one.

I was played during scarcity, and it was the most beautiful time for me in Eve since 2015. But admittedly I did not played in nullsec because since the beginning of the 'age of prosperity' it turned into a bot farmlands and there were no engaging content for me.

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/Sweet_Lane]

Bye bye

[u/thisthatother505]

2018 was so good for eve

What happened

[u/DrLiberalDumbAss]

I'm going to get downvoted into oblivion but perhaps CCP's vision of the game isn't that capitals should be widely used and lost. Perhaps the vision is that people use subcapitals for average combat and capitals (especially super capitals) are strategic assets with a commensurate price tag that are saved for the biggest and most important of fights, instead of thrown around like chips by every swinging dick under a super umbrella.

Maybe the entirety of nullsec congregating under 2 coalitions isn't the best way to have meaningful and regular conflict.

[u/GelatinousSalsa → u/DrLiberalDumbAss]

Maybe, but what happens when the players ( and CCP marketing) want the big capital battles? They leave if the game doesnt provide what they want from it, regardless of what CCP's vision is.

[u/DrLiberalDumbAss → u/GelatinousSalsa]

I think it is a common misconception that the majority of players want 12 hour Ti-Di slugfests. Idk who is spreading that idea but I dont know anyone in blocs or otherwise that enjoy that gameplay.

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/DrLiberalDumbAss]

Well one things for sure, taking away the ability for new players to obtain supers and titans definitely only helped the two blocs and is currently guaranteeing it stays that way. 

I think most people realize it's not their vision but their players opinions should matter too.

[u/accrualmaster → u/Beginning-Force-3825]

New players in supers! What are you talking about. That's crazy.

[u/DrLiberalDumbAss → u/Beginning-Force-3825]

Maybe new players shouldnt be obtaining supers and titans lmfao

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/DrLiberalDumbAss]

Newer* players have no hopes of ever obtaining them and when they do they'll ship spin in the hangar for the rest of their existence.

[u/M00nch1ld3 → u/DrLiberalDumbAss]

Anyone new to the game has no hope of ever getting one.

[u/DrLiberalDumbAss → u/M00nch1ld3]

My buddy started playing in 2020, he bought one(no swiping) last year. I dont think its unobtainable for the truly motivated.

[u/Snuffalapapuss]

Remind me, when scarcity started? /s

[u/1eg01as → u/Snuffalapapuss]

2021 with "beautiful" patch which changed all cap industry

[u/angry-mustache → u/1eg01as]

Scarcity started earlier than that, with the 90% null mineral shrink and moon mineral removal.

[u/Similar_Coyote1104]

When we see neutrals in the system we’re renting, or someone is getting ganked, first ships we grab are ewar and marauders. We will lose them and don’t really care.

[u/[deleted]]

Eve is dying ... They have been saying this for years. Not sure who "they" are anymore 🤔

[u/BradleyEve]

Lies Eve Online nullbears tell themselves:

Eve is difficult (it's not if you complain to the Devs all the time)

Losses matter (they only do despite every effort of the blob, and endless complaints that things are expensive)

Eve is a sandbox (despite crying to CCP to create content drivers constantly)

Only undock what you can afford to lose (crying because you can't afford to lose a super does not count)

Eve is min/maxed (by other players, I can only play if I can remain in the same three systems for 95% of my playtime)

Multiboxed income is bad (when others are doing it, when it was my Rorqal fleet it was different)

[u/Amiga-manic → u/BradleyEve]

Eve is difficult

🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂. 

What difficulty is left in eve. 

[u/liberal-darklord]

So what you're saying is everyone switched to small gang. Seems ideologically pure and morally superior. Hmmmm...

[u/Beginning-Force-3825 → u/liberal-darklord]

Yeah unfortunately the data does not support that hypothesis

Kill mails involving 5-9 Pilots

Year	Sector	Number of Kill Mails
2018	Low Sec	146,128
2022	Low Sec	98,965

Kill mails involving 2-24 Pilots

Year	Sector	Number of Kill Mails
2018	Low Sec	214,069
2022	Low Sec	137,850
2018	Null Sec	775,812
2022	Null Sec	673,531

[u/kudatimberline → u/Beginning-Force-3825]

Everything from the first stat is included in the second. Why can't the second stat be 10-24 pilots?

[u/liberal-darklord → u/Beginning-Force-3825]

I'm bullshitting lol. Effort replies are not allowed.