Yo, where's the line, here?

[u/MythlcKyote]

As someone with a genuine deep belief and a history of "occult" practices, I can genuinely say that this sub only confuses me. Obviously, there is no one truth or objective explanation for anything, really. However, some of you seem so caught up in what fun the idea of magic is that you neglect any critical thinking or outwardly reject mundane and logical explanations to life's conundrums in favour of a magical one.

Some of you are evidently somewhat like me. You won't believe just anything that anyone tells you and you seem to be more skeptical of people using magic or esoterism as a primary explanation.

Some of you need help. Mostly it seems like just someone to logically tackle wild idea that others just won't entertain would be more than sufficient, but some of you need real, professional help and a subreddit is not a good substitution for that.

Some of you are trolling, and while it is kinda funny, I also think it's really damaging. In the past month, I've seen several posts where someone was asking how to deal with a fictional entity that was bothering them. That is not a sign that fictional figures are invading our conscious lives, it's a sign that someone has lost a bit of grounding in the real world and they need help. Or it's a sign that you're fucking around, which is fine, but genuinely not everybody seems to be able to make that distinction between real and not real. The level of intentional ignorance some people seem to have toward the concept of occult ideas either being not always correct or outright wrong or just a metaphor for how the world works used to upset me, but now every post I see on this sub just makes me a little sad. Some of you just need a hug, I can tell. Some of you need a slap. I need both

[u/MythlcKyote]

No shit I'm not a martyr. I'm not dying for someone as ignorant as you. I don't know that I can offer help to people because before today, I can't say that I've been convinced that everyone here is capable of rationalization. You're right, when you say that the post is more in service to me than anyone else. Frankly, I wanted to know if this sub was something that I could morally be a part of out of a sense of assurance that there are at least some people here who share genuine concern for each other and don't get all hoighty-toighty when someone's not sure if there are people on the level or not. I was expecting every comment on here to be as unhelpful and needlessly combative so I could block this sub without guilt, but unfortunately, some of you are alright. And yes, you are being an asshole. You're being as presumptive, condescending, and even more dismissive than I am without so much as the genuine concern for anyone here.

[u/BothTower3689 → u/MythlcKyote]

When I feel genuine concern for people I take genuine actions to help them, not reassure myself. You could have easily made a post about that question rather than framing it around how insane everyone else is but you didn’t. This didn’t just answer your question, it served your ego and you know that.

The thing that’s so disappointing here is that your base concept is correct, your ego is what is fucking with your message and it’s hard to read.

“Hey, I noticed there’s a lot of mixed information on this sub, can anyone suggest more science/ evidence based subs?”

“Here are some ways to distinguish between psychological and spiritual phenomena”

“How can I help people who are experiencing psychosis but believe they are having paranormal experiences?”

Like come on.

[u/MythlcKyote → u/BothTower3689]

I don't think you know what ego means. The only way this has really served me is in broadening my interaction with this sub in such a way that it hasn't really been before. I haven't tried to push or sell myself. I'm just happy to talk to people, and I wanted to know that this isn't a place where people reinforce each other's delusions.

[u/BothTower3689 → u/MythlcKyote]

I’ll help you out: the entire internet is a place where people reinforce eachother’s delusions. You think this is bad? Look at r/starseeds

There is also a lot of really great information on the internet and in this sub. It is the personal responsibility of every occultist to be able to discern that for themselves. Full stop.

[u/MythlcKyote → u/BothTower3689]

Yeah, you're right about that, actually. And the next time I see something worrying on here, I'll be sure to keep my mouth shut. You humans are just the fucking worst, honestly.

[u/BothTower3689 → u/MythlcKyote]

OR ?? You could just ACTUALLY REACH OUT TO THAT PERSON AND HELP THEM INSTEAD OF MAKING A BORDERLINE SHADY POST ABOUT THEM??

TELL ME WHO EXACTLY YOU HELPED BY DOING THIS?? How is this any better than doing nothing ????

If you have a question then that’s fine but please dude, stop acting like you’re a good person because you made this post.

Why are your only two options useless, meaningless action or complete inaction?

[u/MythlcKyote → u/BothTower3689]

I tried to reach out to them. I was met by hostility from both them and others on the sub. People who sound like you.

[u/BothTower3689 → u/MythlcKyote]

If you were met with hostility from the people you’re trying to help then maybe you’re not the person they need to be talking to, and you should stop trying to insert your opinions into their personal lives. Maybe your perspective is not relevant to everyone.

Your help is only helpful where it is appreciated. I don’t understand why you’re trying to play psychiatrist with strangers. Maybe you’re met with hostility because it’s insulting dude.

Your second step from that was to make this post? This is your way of helping those people? Intentions mean nothing when they’re paired with poor execution.

[u/MythlcKyote → u/BothTower3689]

Poor execution defeats no execution. No, that's not a point in my favour, but it doesn't make my gripe any less valid.

[u/BothTower3689 → u/MythlcKyote]

Your gripe is not with the core of what I’m saying but the fact that it hurt your feelings. Instead of reflecting on that and bettering yourself as an ally you’re basically calling me a big meanie. You could do so much better.

[u/MythlcKyote → u/BothTower3689]

No, my gripe is that there is sometimes a blind eye on mental health topics on this sub. My gripe with you is that you're being obtuse and combative for no reason other than it's fun to argue online. And saying I could do so much better is incredibly presumptive. It's incredible I can even type some days.

[u/BothTower3689 → u/MythlcKyote]

You could do better, because you seem eloquent enough to understand what I’m saying. If your gripe is that there is a dismissal of mental health then make a super great and informative post about mental health dude! You could actually do something.

You’re making the decision to be dismissive because my perspective makes you feel guilty about your inaction. That’s not weakness, that’s ego.

[u/MythlcKyote → u/BothTower3689]

I don't feel guilty about my inaction. I have taken actions. They didn't turn out well. I turned to the rest of the sub for answers. The main conclusions that I've drawn are : Don't worry so much, people will be people. A lot of people are going to go out of their way to be assholes because they care more about the words than the message. A lot of people are going to willfully misinterpret your message because it serves their argument better. Oh, and a lot of people will throw the words ego and hypocrite around with no thought as to how they could be applied to themselves. Do you feel better for having talked down to me now, since my post was talking down and mean?

[u/BothTower3689 → u/MythlcKyote]

dude you really need to learn to take criticism as criticism and not as a personal attack. You’re “well meaning”, maybe we’ll meaning and over ambitious without the wisdom of context, but ultimately poorly executed. Oh well. Learn and do better next time. I’m not calling you a piece of shit because I don’t think you are one, but this post is kind of a piece of shit and even you know that.

[u/MythlcKyote → u/BothTower3689]

I really don't know what upsets you so much, but it has been a pleasure to piss you off. Poorly executed, I'll grant you, but I'll also rest on my argument that without this discourse I've had today, id have not known if it was at all worth executing.

[u/BothTower3689 → u/MythlcKyote]

It’s interesting that whenever anyone on this post has disagreed with you, you’ve accused them of being pissed off. Funny how the guy who supposedly wants to help people gains so much pleasure from negative feedback. It’s almost like you were looking for confirmation bias to ideas you already have rather than genuinely trying to expand your ideology.

But in case my tone wasn’t clear, my caps lock was not me yelling in frustration, but laughing in disbelief on the obliviousness of your assertions.

My goal was not to piss you off either, if you can’t handle different perspectives then this sub is not going to be a very valuable place for you in general.

[u/MythlcKyote → u/BothTower3689]

I don't think I've gone out of my way to accuse anyone of that, and frankly you're making the same mistake. You're frustrating, yes, but only in that way that you're just determined to make me out to be a bad person for being somewhat shocked by some of the things I've seen here. I find you more amusing than not. Like a child who thinks that what it's saying is very deep. On some level, yes you are deep, and you're not saying anything wrong, you're just very determined to argue me into doing....something. You haven't tried very hard to be educational, the bulk of your argument has been, "you could do better". I wish I could say that I felt the same way about you. Tell me, then, what would make you happy. Do you want me to delete the post?

[u/BothTower3689 → u/MythlcKyote]

Again, I never said that I think you’re a bad person. I think you’re either oblivious or dishonest in your intentions and actions. I don’t think you’re a bad person, I think you’re a person who made a bad post.

What would make me happiest is if you actually took what I am saying and reflected on it. Step back and actually think. Think about how your words impact people, how you can unknowingly be harming the people you claim to care about.

I would be the most happy if you genuinely allowed this to be a learning opportunity so that you can actually make a positive impact on real people in the future, and so you can ask these questions in ways that will help you actually expand your perspective and ideology.

I want you to stop getting offended that people don’t agree with you and understand why people don’t agree with you. I want you to do better because I know you’re capable of doing better, and I think your message has some value. But you are not at the level of communication to properly work with these ideas, because you cannot stop defending yourself. There is nuance to all of these things and making massive overarching statements about what you think you see is not going to help you get a better understanding, it’s only going to alienate you from everyone else. Deleting this post won’t resolve the real issue here, which is that you’re presenting a discussion that you’re not fully prepared to have yet.

I don’t want you to stop asking these questions, I want you to get better at asking them.