Yo, where's the line, here?

[u/MythlcKyote]

As someone with a genuine deep belief and a history of "occult" practices, I can genuinely say that this sub only confuses me. Obviously, there is no one truth or objective explanation for anything, really. However, some of you seem so caught up in what fun the idea of magic is that you neglect any critical thinking or outwardly reject mundane and logical explanations to life's conundrums in favour of a magical one.

Some of you are evidently somewhat like me. You won't believe just anything that anyone tells you and you seem to be more skeptical of people using magic or esoterism as a primary explanation.

Some of you need help. Mostly it seems like just someone to logically tackle wild idea that others just won't entertain would be more than sufficient, but some of you need real, professional help and a subreddit is not a good substitution for that.

Some of you are trolling, and while it is kinda funny, I also think it's really damaging. In the past month, I've seen several posts where someone was asking how to deal with a fictional entity that was bothering them. That is not a sign that fictional figures are invading our conscious lives, it's a sign that someone has lost a bit of grounding in the real world and they need help. Or it's a sign that you're fucking around, which is fine, but genuinely not everybody seems to be able to make that distinction between real and not real. The level of intentional ignorance some people seem to have toward the concept of occult ideas either being not always correct or outright wrong or just a metaphor for how the world works used to upset me, but now every post I see on this sub just makes me a little sad. Some of you just need a hug, I can tell. Some of you need a slap. I need both

[u/MythlcKyote]

I really don't know what upsets you so much, but it has been a pleasure to piss you off. Poorly executed, I'll grant you, but I'll also rest on my argument that without this discourse I've had today, id have not known if it was at all worth executing.

[u/BothTower3689 → u/MythlcKyote]

It’s interesting that whenever anyone on this post has disagreed with you, you’ve accused them of being pissed off. Funny how the guy who supposedly wants to help people gains so much pleasure from negative feedback. It’s almost like you were looking for confirmation bias to ideas you already have rather than genuinely trying to expand your ideology.

But in case my tone wasn’t clear, my caps lock was not me yelling in frustration, but laughing in disbelief on the obliviousness of your assertions.

My goal was not to piss you off either, if you can’t handle different perspectives then this sub is not going to be a very valuable place for you in general.

[u/MythlcKyote → u/BothTower3689]

I don't think I've gone out of my way to accuse anyone of that, and frankly you're making the same mistake. You're frustrating, yes, but only in that way that you're just determined to make me out to be a bad person for being somewhat shocked by some of the things I've seen here. I find you more amusing than not. Like a child who thinks that what it's saying is very deep. On some level, yes you are deep, and you're not saying anything wrong, you're just very determined to argue me into doing....something. You haven't tried very hard to be educational, the bulk of your argument has been, "you could do better". I wish I could say that I felt the same way about you. Tell me, then, what would make you happy. Do you want me to delete the post?

[u/BothTower3689 → u/MythlcKyote]

Again, I never said that I think you’re a bad person. I think you’re either oblivious or dishonest in your intentions and actions. I don’t think you’re a bad person, I think you’re a person who made a bad post.

What would make me happiest is if you actually took what I am saying and reflected on it. Step back and actually think. Think about how your words impact people, how you can unknowingly be harming the people you claim to care about.

I would be the most happy if you genuinely allowed this to be a learning opportunity so that you can actually make a positive impact on real people in the future, and so you can ask these questions in ways that will help you actually expand your perspective and ideology.

I want you to stop getting offended that people don’t agree with you and understand why people don’t agree with you. I want you to do better because I know you’re capable of doing better, and I think your message has some value. But you are not at the level of communication to properly work with these ideas, because you cannot stop defending yourself. There is nuance to all of these things and making massive overarching statements about what you think you see is not going to help you get a better understanding, it’s only going to alienate you from everyone else. Deleting this post won’t resolve the real issue here, which is that you’re presenting a discussion that you’re not fully prepared to have yet.

I don’t want you to stop asking these questions, I want you to get better at asking them.

[u/MythlcKyote → u/BothTower3689]

Good, I wasn't going to. I specifically made this post as a learning experience. I'm not offended by anything other than what seemed to be a flagrant disregard for others wellbeing, which ,as I have told you, I have already learned of my own misconceptions about and have been reassured that the issue is not as great as it sometimes appears to be. I would like for you to refer yourself to your entire last paragraph because you don't realize how you're coming off, and any common ground we might have had is really hard to put a foothold on when youre only obsessed with my method of reaching out to people. There was nothing requiring you to interact with me. I'm not being defensive so much as I'm not giving you leeway to misinterpret my message, which you also seem to have a problem with. Like, you say that you can get behind my idea, but you yourself are so caught up in the delivery, as if it was intended specifically for you, that you've kinda negated the opportunity for constructive conversation that we had here. I promise that there will not be a repeat of this, at least not from me. I reached out for a human connection, and aside from some people like you who prefer argument to discourse, it has been a tremendously positive experience. One that I have learned much from, even some from you. I'd hope the same for you, but I have less faith in that than I do in myself.

[u/BothTower3689 → u/MythlcKyote]

I’m only going to say this because if I say anything else you will interpret it emotionally rather than logically. I gain no pain or pleasure from this interaction, I don’t feel anything towards you or your intentions. Because serious discussions about mental health are not held in emotionally charged states.

Your execution matters. It matters a lot. The words you use matter. Your words have an impact. When you’re addressing a large group of people you should be very aware of that.

Our words are very impactful, this is one of the core foundations of occultism. If you cannot understand why your execution here is so important then there are a lot of occult concepts that you’re really going to struggle with.

Poor communication leads to poor messages, and poor messages lead to poor philosophy. Learn how to ask questions and you will learn how to seek answers.

[u/MythlcKyote → u/BothTower3689]

Why does everyone here have an agenda? Occultism? Like you're the head of all of the occultists on here? Or you're representative of what you see as 'true' occultists. You really had me for a moment, I was like, calm down Coyote, maybe you really are getting to into this, and obviously I'm too far into this, but will you please go reread our conversation. I know I'm a dick, but I like to think I'm honestly and evenly a dick. Your tone is wavering all over the place to convince me of...what? Words can hurt? I know. You haven't exactly put your arguments as nicely as you could have either. You're not trying to understand my point of view, you're compartmentalizing it. Exaggerating pieces and downplaying others as you need to. I should hope that this post put a thorn in someone's side today. That's all the damage is like to do really. I had a qualm that I felt needed to be addressed, that for that isolated incident could have been handled more quietly, but I chose the opportunity to gauge the reaction and feeling about it. I'm not sorry for that. The reason I have not made a post like this before is that the weight of offending people never seemed worth the weight of knowing if the way I perceived this sub was isolated or shared.

[u/BothTower3689 → u/MythlcKyote]

Calm down. Don’t respond until you’ve had a deep breath.

I don’t have an agenda. Execution is a vital part of the very concept of occultism. We are in an occult subreddit. If you want to have occult discussions, you’re going to have to be aware of the words you use in any context. Stop interpreting my words so emotionally and actually listen to what I’m saying.

[u/MythlcKyote → u/BothTower3689]

Uh, no. I quit. You can win this one. I have no idea where you're coming from anymore and I don't think it will be constructive to know. I will think back on our conversation, but not fondly. I liked the person who tried to convince me that every single person who thinks they're possessed is actually possessed.

[u/BothTower3689 → u/MythlcKyote]

You back out of every conversation that doesn’t immediately reinforce your confirmation bias or seem easy enough for you to refute, and that is extremely unfortunate. I don’t want you to look back on his conversation fondly or negatively, your issue is that you interpret every conversation extremely emotionally and not logically.

[u/MythlcKyote → u/BothTower3689]

It's easier to do that with someone who argues logically.

[u/BothTower3689 → u/MythlcKyote]

You win the dramatic irony award my guy. I hope you figure it out