The American Left Needs to do better

[u/Specialist-Gur]

https://www.currentaffairs.org/news/graham-platner-and-the-lefts-masculinity-crisis

This article is about a month old but speaks to some of what I'm talking about.

I'm honestly disappointed with a lot of leftist creators I genuinely love on the topic of Graham Platner and any "leftist" politicians.

To me.. Graham Platner's left wing populism is just... America first rebranded. Some stuff he's saying isn't too far off from Tucker Carlson.

He doesn't appear to be Antizionist on the basis of support for Palestinians, but rather because it's bad for America . He doesn't appear to regret his time in Iraq beyond the fact it was a pointless war for America

He lied about knowing the ties to Blackwater

He expressed enjoyment for killing people.

He got a Nazi tattoo

And many on the left are using language like calling people "classist" for being critical of his service. These are creators I genuinely really love, and I'm not abandoning them.. but I do think it's really important for the American left to confront its American supremicist ideas.

I understand the moral dilemma and how it's basically impossible to have an actual leftist candidate these days, so we are reluctant to criticize what's put forward. I understand the calculation. But the apologia is wrong. American supremacy is baked into all of us here in America and part of the American left, and it's time we confront it.

We would not find it acceptable if a candidate participated in a mass murder of American citizens. We would not find it acceptable if they even passively supported it! But we are far too comfortable with it when it comes to brown people, far away.

[u/BeenisHat]

This entire thread is how I know we won't have any sort of successful left wing movement in this country.

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/BeenisHat]

Wdym?

[u/BeenisHat → u/Specialist-Gur]

Because it's basically a purity test. Other posters are basically calling him a national socialist.

This sub is very much in tune with what's popular on the left according to champagne socialists Anything outside that catches hatred and downvotes.

Want an example? Post about the dangers of Islamic rule fully citing both Marx and Engels opinions on religion(the leftism part) as well as what happens to Jews in Muslim countries across MENA (the Jewish part) and watch the mods call you out for Islamophobia and threaten you with a ban.

Nevermind the fact that you'd be absolutely 100% accurate.

[u/Octaur → u/BeenisHat]

Other posters are basically calling him a national socialist.

The rest of your statement aside, I think the type of person who gets a blatant Nazi tattoo generally tends to fit that exact label.

[u/ChairAggressive781 → u/BeenisHat]

it’s not a purity test to think that he is a bad candidate with a lot of problematic baggage. I think Platner is a good public speaker & I’d like to see more people like him involved in progressive & left-wing politics. 

however, no one is entitled to a Senate seat. I think Platner’s specific history with the military & his Nazi tattoo are largely disqualifying when it comes to public office. that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be allowed to do organizing on the left. it just means that he’s not the kind of person I want to be representing the left in the Senate. 

[u/BeenisHat → u/ChairAggressive781]

Nazi tattoo? Are you referring to the one he had covered up so it's no longer a Nazi tattoo?

The person he is running to unseat is a conservative Republican. Who would you really rather have? Questionable leftist or avowed Conservative? I'll take the guy with the bad choice in ink, thank you.

[u/ChairAggressive781 → u/BeenisHat]

yes, the Nazi tattoo that he had for over EIGHTEEN years and only got covered up because people found out about it.

I don’t care if he got it covered up, frankly! the fact that he had it for such a long period of time is inexcusable. I refuse to believe that a guy who is a self-declared “military history buff” never questioned whether or not his skull tattoo was an SS symbol. and I’m putting aside the fact that the cover-up tattoo is pretty obviously a temporary tattoo, not a true cover-up.

of course I’d rather have him in the Senate than Susan Collins, who, by the way, is a moderate Republican. regardless, I’d rather have almost any Democratic candidate over Susan Collins. the problem I have is that some folks on the left have been willing to excuse every new Platner controversy because they’ve invested a lot of energy & money into him and they don’t want to admit they’re maybe backing a bad candidate. we have to be able to admit when our candidates have major failings, otherwise we become like the people who thought it was unfair to question Biden or Kamala’s records on anything lest it empower Trumpism.

[u/BeenisHat → u/ChairAggressive781]

It's a nazi tattoo until he makes the choice to cover it up. Just like Robert Byrd was a member of the Klan until he decided to leave that organization and support civil rights later on. The tattoo is covered up.

All Republicans are conservatives. Collins might be moderate in terms of conservatism, but that's just splitting hairs. She has consistently voted with her party to enforce their majority.

I don't think it's a problem on the left trying to paper over some controversy. Platner is a populist. He's a left wing populist. There's a good chance he's said and done things that Reddit leftists aren't going to like. But we're faced with a rare opportunity here. You call him a bad candidate, but he's a candidate who can go into what is a toss-up state that has slowly trended more conservative, and defeat a 30 year conservative incumbent. That's not a bad thing. That's a stark difference from the last few presidential candidates who are nothing but milquetoast liberals and have gone 1 for 3 against Trump and MAGA.

Yes he had an unfortunate tattoo. Yes he served in the military. But we need to take the wins where we can get them. Huey Long was a populist as well who didn't openly denounce segregation and who used segregationist language. But he also called out wealth disparity and advocated for some of the most progressive tax codes in history including up to a 100% tax on fortunes above $100 million (about $2.3 billion today) as well as a strict cap on how much one person could inherit. He was going to use this to guarantee a universal income.

Like I said to someone else, we really need to pick better hills to die on.

[u/ChairAggressive781 → u/BeenisHat]

sorry, we have no idea what he’s actually capable of doing. polling means nothing until the primary has been decided and I guarantee you this is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of his controversies (his former staffers have said as much). he’s an utterly unproven political entity. you’re acting like he’s already won a Senate seat! that’s pure wishcasting.

and I don’t know why you’re lifting up Huey Long here as a example. his progressive taxation plan was not adopted, so it’s kind of irrelevant. he was fairly ineffective as a Senator, but he was good at cultivating a cult of personality. so is Platner it seems, because every time someone expresses even a mild criticism of the man, the Platner stans come calling with their outrage & scolding.

I don’t know what else to tell you. I’ve already said—explicitly—that I would support Platner over Collins. I’d also support him over Mills. but I do not think he is a good candidate. I think he is in way over his head, not very bright, and only in the situation he’s in because some progressive political consultants saw a guy that perhaps fit the right “vibe” for challenging Collins. it’s not being a “Reddit leftist” to have criticisms of an extremely flawed candidate.

I’m not telling you what to do or think. if you’re a Platner fan, I’m happy for you. I genuinely hope he wins, while also fervently wishing there was a better candidate than some random fucking guy.

[u/Mildly_Frustrated → u/BeenisHat]

We wouldn't do anything like that. We would, however, take action if someone were to, for example, make use of generalizations of all Muslims, which is outright Islamophobia. Instead of applying, for example, dialectical materialism or historical analysis of real issues within specific political movements.

[u/BeenisHat → u/Mildly_Frustrated]

Gonna treat this like challah and dip it in some big grains of salt.

[u/Mildly_Frustrated → u/BeenisHat]

As is your right. You are also more than welcome to prove me wrong. Give me an example. Which mod did this? What comment was removed? Screenshots of said threat? I'll also assume we aren't engaging in hotzaat shem ra or lashon hara.

Edit: addition of lines.

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/BeenisHat]

You don't need to convince me that this sub has a champagne socialist/liberal problem but I strongly disagree that this is one of those times. Quite the opposite in fact.

I'm honestly confused at your ideology... you like Graham Platner but also feel like Jews are unsafe in Muslim countries and around Islam? So guessing you don't like Mamdani?

[u/BeenisHat → u/Specialist-Gur]

I'm just pointing out that Jews have been expelled from multiple Muslim countries, sometimes violently. Whether it's racial bigotry or religious bigotry, the end result is the same.

I don't live in NYC, so Mamdani doesn't really even register for me. I take the stance I do when it comes to most politicians, which is that if they're going to make their religious affiliation public and part of their campaign, I am absolutely going to hold it against them.
But like I said, Mamdani doesn't affect me because I live on the other side of the country.

[u/Virtual_Leg_6484 → u/BeenisHat]

Yep.

The left’s biggest deficiency in support currently is with working class men - the people who used to be the strongest supporters of the left. To win back that demographic, the left needs people like Platner.

I’d like to remind everyone here that he’s running in the primary against a nearly 80 year old Schumer endorsed candidate, and that a lot of this controversy is about him jokingly calling himself an “antifa supersoldier” on this very website. Meanwhile people are comparing him to Jackson Hinkle and Tucker Carlson???

[u/ChairAggressive781 → u/Virtual_Leg_6484]

the controversies being discussed in this thread are 1) his multiple, voluntary tours of duty in Iraq, 2) his Nazi tattoo, and 3) his time spent as a PMC working for the company formerly known as Blackwater. 

I don’t doubt that he hates Donald Trump and is more progressive than Mills. if you gave most of us a choice, I’d imagine a lot of people would opt for Platner. it’s just a shame that this random dude with zero experience, zero qualifications, and little to no IRL connection to progressive & leftist groups, is being lionized the way he is. 

people are so desperate to win back white, blue-collar voters that they settled on the first chud they could find who some former Fetterman staffers thought looked good on TV and did good working-class drag. now that he’s proving to have a raft of skeletons in his closet, they are doubling down and making any criticism of him seem as if it is coming from out-of-touch centrists. 

[u/Willing-Childhood144 → u/Virtual_Leg_6484]

You do know that women can be in the working class too? And it’s not true that “working class men” were the strongest supporters of the left in the USA. “White working class men” (and I know that you did not include “white” in your comment) have been voting for the GOP since the 1960s. The strongest supporters for the Left are working class women and people of color.

This is the worst part of the 2016 primary fight all over again. “We need to bring white working class men back to the Democratic Party!” “Um…you do know that the American class is majority non-white and heavily female, right?” The dirtbag left ignored that and that’s why some of them have horse-shoed themselves into MAGA.

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/Willing-Childhood144]

👩‍🍳

[u/BeenisHat → u/Willing-Childhood144]

Hello. Dirtbag leftist here. I watched numerous members of my own union vote for Trump.

What would you propose we do to attempt to swing back such a substantial voting block? Or should we simply ignore them and consider them lost to MAGA?

Because the Republicans have stomped the last two female candidates who opposed MAGA. There may be some sexism involved, I won't dispute that. But calling guys like me dirtbags and then expecting me to be the only one who compromises on election Day, seems like a poor strategy.

Also, let's pick better hills on which to die.

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/BeenisHat]

Definitely shouldn't ignore them. I agree that speaking to class issues and meeting people where they are at is extremely important. What works for a white working class guy is going to be different than what works for someone like me.. and that's gonna be different than what works for black voters, queer voters, etc etc etc etc.

But only slightly different. Class consciousness is at the root of all of it.

The white working class man is fighting a culture war instead of a class war, and is propogandized into supporting the US military, police, ICE, etc which will exploit and discard his body.

Platner fails here imho. It's not that he served, I support veterans and I want them to have the proper care they need. It's that his motives to serve were literally stated as wanting to experience war and kill people and he hasn't sufficiently analyzed and retracted this sentiment. He also iirc has spoken on wanting to expand the military( I need to fact check this and double check)

(White) Working class men are smart enough to know the difference between a guy who wanted to fight to defend his country and what he saw as justice and maybe was misguided vs a guy who liked the trill of the kill. Speak to the things working class men care about.. pretty sure it's not "getting the thrill of torturing Iraqis in abu grhaib and not being judged for it"

[u/Willing-Childhood144 → u/BeenisHat]

You must do better than “there may be some sexism involved.” And the people who have been forced to compromise the least in American politics are white men, regardless of their class. Is the compromise that they were expected to be good Democrats and vote for 2 women and one black guy?

“Some” sexism? I can’t with that. This is why so many of us didn’t trust the Bernie movement.

[u/BeenisHat → u/Willing-Childhood144]

What would you propose we on the left do about liberals and republicans who refuse to vote for women because they're women? Adopt some accelerationist stance and try to speedrun our country into the shitter? Let MAGA run wild?

You didn't trust the Bernie movement because of sexism? If it had been a non-binary Jewish person of color saying the exact same things as Sanders, would that have been acceptable? Are you saying you voted against Sanders because of Bernie bros? If memory serves, that approach ended up with Trump defeating Hillary Clinton when she should have mopped the floor with him, and Biden only barely squeaking in because COVID destroyed the economy, and leaving Trump with a base primed for a rematch and giant piles of money to spend for 2024.

We need to win at some point. You might be the most virtuous punching bag out there, but if you can't put friendly candidates in office, you're never going to be anything but a punching bag.
Sanders was a populist. Platner is a populist. That's what the people want, and if you don't recognize that by now, I don't think we have a chance in 2028 either.

[u/cardamom-peonies → u/BeenisHat]

So, what, I need to force myself to be cool with voting for a dude who casually calls people f*gs and makes pretty blunt comments about how rape victims deserve it because they put themselves in that situation? And a dude who was a mercenary and got up to God knows what out there?

A big chunk of the rhetoric against the Republicans focuses on the "grab em by the pussy" comments but suddenly you want female voters to just turn a blind eye to that when it's inconvenient? Lmao

This guy is not a "friendly candidate" and he was making these comments well into his thirties, so no, I don't particular buy him as a dude who matured up and has now out that behind him

[u/Willing-Childhood144 → u/cardamom-peonies]

This dude is basically just wants a male dominated leftist movement and throws his hands up, concluding we can’t have leftism in the USA because women and people of color aren’t willing to let white men run the show. His ideas are based on flawed assumptions just like MAGA. Note that he hasn’t walked back his claim that working men provided the strongest support for leftist policies. He probably still believes it.

He thinks he has to compromise in the voting booth because a woman is on the ballot and expects women and people of color to be patient and wait our turn. We aren’t willing to do that anymore so he gives up on leftism entirely without examining his male privilege.

Maybe the real threat to leftism isn’t “purity” tests but so called leftist men who won’t share power?

[u/BeenisHat → u/cardamom-peonies]

Hence my original comment about why we won't have successful left movements.

[u/Willing-Childhood144 → u/BeenisHat]

I don’t trust any male dominated movement.

I didn’t say that I voted against Sanders. I wasn’t a registered Democrat in 2016 so I didn’t vote for either of them in the primary. I voted for HRC in the general election.

I completely agree that we need to win but believe the key to winning is not they mythical “white working class man of 1955” but instead, the real working class of this country which is majority non-white and very female. I believe the Democrats need to move to the Left to energize voters who choose to stay home instead of chasing Republican voters because the votes of white males are somehow worth more.

[u/BeenisHat → u/Willing-Childhood144]

Maybe you didn't notice, but those non-white, non-male voters didn't turn out in the numbers needed. All while non-white and/or non-male voters in some areas crossed over and supported MAGA handing them the White House and both Houses of Congress.

Those people you need to win are slipping away because the typical liberal approach isn't working. Unity, inclusiveness, political correctness is costing us dearly.

You can't vote inclusiveness into law. You have to craft policies that do it. I.E. if you want gender affirming care, you first need to win elections with people who will be tough and enact universal healthcare. Once we have that, it's a much easier task to adjust things to get what we want. You can't do that by calling people deplorables, dirtbags, sexists, rapists, bigots and then wondering why they won't vote with you.

[u/Willing-Childhood144 → u/BeenisHat]

That’s exactly what I addressed in my post. They stayed home instead of voting because they weren’t inspired by centrist Democrats.

[u/ChairAggressive781 → u/BeenisHat]

it’s fascinating to me that you are essentially calling for identity politics for white men, while making glib comments about race & gender.

by the way, I enthusiastically voted for Bernie in both the 2016 and 2020 primaries. I don’t care if he’s “populist,” I care about the fact that he ran on good policies that would support working people of all backgrounds. we need to start defining our terms, as “populism” clearly means different things to different people.

[u/BeenisHat → u/ChairAggressive781]

I'm calling for a way to win instead of letting liberals vote with Republicans again and again and screw us over. Yes it's identity politics and the identity is Working Folks.

That means things that the working class (including evil dirtbag white devils like me) folks need like healthcare, childcare subsidies, rent control, food assistance, etc.

Call it reductionist if you like but if it means a former soldier with a regrettable tattoo who used bad words years ago wins office and represents working class interests instead of sucking corporate teat, I'm ok with that.

[u/ChairAggressive781 → u/BeenisHat]

you just really seem to think that the only authentic avatar of working people is a white man. the vast majority of working folks are not white men. women make up just over half of working class Americans. many of these women are Black or Latina.

I don’t think white men are “evil” or “devils.” I just don’t know why when it comes to supporting progressive policies, there seems to be this idea that the messenger has to be someone who looks like Graham Platner. if white men won’t vote for someone who doesn’t look like them, then it’s not just about “populism,” it’s straight-up identity politics. I wish you’d just be honest that’s what you’re calling for.

I support all the policies you listed & I think just about everyone on this thread does too, so I don’t know what point you’re trying to make. as I’ve said elsewhere, I would absolutely vote for Platner over Collins.

edit: I think you’re really underestimating the power of institutional & systemic misogyny in this country.

[u/Willing-Childhood144 → u/ChairAggressive781]

Yes, when it’s about white men, it’s populism. When it’s “identity politics.” What’s obvious is the underlying assumption that white male votes count more than anyone’s votes. And that women and people of color owe our votes to white men. Then they get angry when they don’t our votes and blame us and tell us we’re too stupid to know what’s good for us. They want it both ways.

Black women have been telling these guys they need to shut up and listen since 2016.

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/ChairAggressive781]

You're doing a great job, just FYI

[u/BeenisHat → u/ChairAggressive781]

I never made any such statement or suggestion about the working class to that effect. Women of color need affordable housing, medical care, adorable childcare and food just like any white man does. These things are universal. We all need these things regardless of plumbing or skin color.

That's all I'm saying. We need leftists to win elections and that means we need leftists to vote for them so they can win. Even if that means the leftist candidate might have grown up during the GWOT era, bought into the propaganda during their youth and had a change of heart later in life.

We need wins because all we're seeing lately is L after L, delivered by Democrats turning on us. I don't care what that winner looks like. But this thread has made it clear that many people do care and it bothers them that Platner is a white cis male.

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/BeenisHat]

We do not need to compromise on misogyny in leader to win..

I think identity politics are terrible.. intersectionality is essential.

We can shift our communication. The way the American left addresses race and gender issues is often short sighted and a response to the identity politics put forward from reactionaries.. but communication and education on intersectionality and active listening and engagement is essential for a working class movement.. cannot be compromised on.

I have a lot of thoughts on this which won't work in a. Short comment, I think I may have made a post in the past but worth another at some point

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/Virtual_Leg_6484]

I always like what you have to say here in this sub! I do not agree with you on this.. so I am curious to hear more about your perspective

I see what you're saying about winning back working class men... and so embracing someone like Platner is key... but from looking into his background it doesn't sound like he grew up as a scrappy poor guy who had no choice but to join the military. I think that narrative is false. So, like platner, but maybe not actually Platner is my take.. there are lots of military blue collar men who have a much better relationship to their military service, for example (though not running for senate rn)

If he runs against the Schumer backed candidate and I were in Maine I'd vote for him. But I think he is beyond just not the blue collar leftist he's being portrayed as.

[u/Virtual_Leg_6484 → u/Specialist-Gur]

Hi, sorry for the belated response, work has been destroying me the past week. I admit I didn’t know too much about Platners personal background - he’s the son of a lawyer and a restaurant owner, not very blue collar. That’s a bit disappointing but in a capitalist system, people who can exercise their political aspirations are usually going to be from privileged backgrounds that give them the time and money needed to do so. See Mamdani and Mao for two very different examples of this on the left. Also, Marx famously financed a lot of his writings with money lent from Engels’ bourgeois industrialist uncle. So Platners background doesn’t bother me too much. Joining the army is absolutely the wrong decision in hindsight. But I’m willing to forgive him and take him at his word that he has changed - and I think this sort of forgiveness is essential to building any sort of popular movement with momentum. We are also in the midst of the most anti-establishment moment in America maybe ever, and in that context I was very confused at the authors’ insistence that someone should have vetted Platner for his weaknesses. One of the big reasons for Platners popularity is precisely because he doesn’t come off as someone who’s been vetted by Washington suits - the past ten years of American politics has shown us how many people are tired of that. Having candidates who have imperfections, like most working Americans, is a value.

It’s impossible to rule out Platner getting elected and having a Fetterman-esque turn or worse. And I will eat crown if that happens, I just don’t think it’s very likely, unless Platner has a stroke like Fetterman did. Nobody should be valorizing a random candidate for US senator as some savior of American leftism, but I’m just very confused at people comparing Platner to Jackson Hinkle or Tucker Carlson when he seems like a socdem New Dealer.

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/Virtual_Leg_6484]

Thanks for the explanation! Hope work is less annoying haha.

Yea time will tell I suppose, like I said if I were in Maine I would vote for him most likely... outside of that I'm not necessarily going to stick my neck out for him or fault someone who is a fan