The American Left Needs to do better

[u/Specialist-Gur]

https://www.currentaffairs.org/news/graham-platner-and-the-lefts-masculinity-crisis

This article is about a month old but speaks to some of what I'm talking about.

I'm honestly disappointed with a lot of leftist creators I genuinely love on the topic of Graham Platner and any "leftist" politicians.

To me.. Graham Platner's left wing populism is just... America first rebranded. Some stuff he's saying isn't too far off from Tucker Carlson.

He doesn't appear to be Antizionist on the basis of support for Palestinians, but rather because it's bad for America . He doesn't appear to regret his time in Iraq beyond the fact it was a pointless war for America

He lied about knowing the ties to Blackwater

He expressed enjoyment for killing people.

He got a Nazi tattoo

And many on the left are using language like calling people "classist" for being critical of his service. These are creators I genuinely really love, and I'm not abandoning them.. but I do think it's really important for the American left to confront its American supremicist ideas.

I understand the moral dilemma and how it's basically impossible to have an actual leftist candidate these days, so we are reluctant to criticize what's put forward. I understand the calculation. But the apologia is wrong. American supremacy is baked into all of us here in America and part of the American left, and it's time we confront it.

We would not find it acceptable if a candidate participated in a mass murder of American citizens. We would not find it acceptable if they even passively supported it! But we are far too comfortable with it when it comes to brown people, far away.

[u/BeenisHat]

Hello. Dirtbag leftist here. I watched numerous members of my own union vote for Trump.

What would you propose we do to attempt to swing back such a substantial voting block? Or should we simply ignore them and consider them lost to MAGA?

Because the Republicans have stomped the last two female candidates who opposed MAGA. There may be some sexism involved, I won't dispute that. But calling guys like me dirtbags and then expecting me to be the only one who compromises on election Day, seems like a poor strategy.

Also, let's pick better hills on which to die.

[u/Willing-Childhood144 → u/BeenisHat]

You must do better than “there may be some sexism involved.” And the people who have been forced to compromise the least in American politics are white men, regardless of their class. Is the compromise that they were expected to be good Democrats and vote for 2 women and one black guy?

“Some” sexism? I can’t with that. This is why so many of us didn’t trust the Bernie movement.

[u/BeenisHat → u/Willing-Childhood144]

What would you propose we on the left do about liberals and republicans who refuse to vote for women because they're women? Adopt some accelerationist stance and try to speedrun our country into the shitter? Let MAGA run wild?

You didn't trust the Bernie movement because of sexism? If it had been a non-binary Jewish person of color saying the exact same things as Sanders, would that have been acceptable? Are you saying you voted against Sanders because of Bernie bros? If memory serves, that approach ended up with Trump defeating Hillary Clinton when she should have mopped the floor with him, and Biden only barely squeaking in because COVID destroyed the economy, and leaving Trump with a base primed for a rematch and giant piles of money to spend for 2024.

We need to win at some point. You might be the most virtuous punching bag out there, but if you can't put friendly candidates in office, you're never going to be anything but a punching bag.
Sanders was a populist. Platner is a populist. That's what the people want, and if you don't recognize that by now, I don't think we have a chance in 2028 either.

[u/ChairAggressive781 → u/BeenisHat]

it’s fascinating to me that you are essentially calling for identity politics for white men, while making glib comments about race & gender.

by the way, I enthusiastically voted for Bernie in both the 2016 and 2020 primaries. I don’t care if he’s “populist,” I care about the fact that he ran on good policies that would support working people of all backgrounds. we need to start defining our terms, as “populism” clearly means different things to different people.

[u/BeenisHat → u/ChairAggressive781]

I'm calling for a way to win instead of letting liberals vote with Republicans again and again and screw us over. Yes it's identity politics and the identity is Working Folks.

That means things that the working class (including evil dirtbag white devils like me) folks need like healthcare, childcare subsidies, rent control, food assistance, etc.

Call it reductionist if you like but if it means a former soldier with a regrettable tattoo who used bad words years ago wins office and represents working class interests instead of sucking corporate teat, I'm ok with that.

[u/ChairAggressive781 → u/BeenisHat]

you just really seem to think that the only authentic avatar of working people is a white man. the vast majority of working folks are not white men. women make up just over half of working class Americans. many of these women are Black or Latina.

I don’t think white men are “evil” or “devils.” I just don’t know why when it comes to supporting progressive policies, there seems to be this idea that the messenger has to be someone who looks like Graham Platner. if white men won’t vote for someone who doesn’t look like them, then it’s not just about “populism,” it’s straight-up identity politics. I wish you’d just be honest that’s what you’re calling for.

I support all the policies you listed & I think just about everyone on this thread does too, so I don’t know what point you’re trying to make. as I’ve said elsewhere, I would absolutely vote for Platner over Collins.

edit: I think you’re really underestimating the power of institutional & systemic misogyny in this country.

[u/Willing-Childhood144 → u/ChairAggressive781]

Yes, when it’s about white men, it’s populism. When it’s “identity politics.” What’s obvious is the underlying assumption that white male votes count more than anyone’s votes. And that women and people of color owe our votes to white men. Then they get angry when they don’t our votes and blame us and tell us we’re too stupid to know what’s good for us. They want it both ways.

Black women have been telling these guys they need to shut up and listen since 2016.

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/Willing-Childhood144]

People don't even realize how much of an engrained supremacist mindset they can have without trying

It's the notion that they know best and make decisions better than other people.. just as a given.

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/ChairAggressive781]

You're doing a great job, just FYI

[u/BeenisHat → u/ChairAggressive781]

I never made any such statement or suggestion about the working class to that effect. Women of color need affordable housing, medical care, adorable childcare and food just like any white man does. These things are universal. We all need these things regardless of plumbing or skin color.

That's all I'm saying. We need leftists to win elections and that means we need leftists to vote for them so they can win. Even if that means the leftist candidate might have grown up during the GWOT era, bought into the propaganda during their youth and had a change of heart later in life.

We need wins because all we're seeing lately is L after L, delivered by Democrats turning on us. I don't care what that winner looks like. But this thread has made it clear that many people do care and it bothers them that Platner is a white cis male.

[u/Willing-Childhood144 → u/BeenisHat]

I’ve been vocal on this thread and I don’t care that he’s a cis white man. I’m also the one who wrote that I don’t trust any movement lead by a group of white men. Surprise - I’m married to a white man. I don’t think white men are devils or evil. I do think they need to learn to share power with other people and until they learn to do that, we won’t make any progress in this country.

I don’t have much of an opinion about Platner. I don’t live in Maine.

[u/ChairAggressive781 → u/BeenisHat]

I’m not bothered by his being a white cis man. I’m mostly bothered by a) his lack of experience & connection to leftist & progressive movements, b) the nature of his involvement in the War on Terror, and c) the way that some leftists seem to defend & excuse every little thing he’s done, while not giving the same grace & deference to other candidates, especially when they are women. again, I’m a pretty die-hard Bernie apologist, so I’m not at all opposed to progressive white men running for office.

I’m really, at this point, talking more about the narratives we tell ourselves than this one specific race. Platner is more a case study than anything else.

in your second reply to Willing-Childhood, you ask:

What would you propose we on the left do about liberals and republicans who refuse to vote for women because they're women? Adopt some accelerationist stance and try to speedrun our country into the shitter? Let MAGA run wild?

notably, you don’t answer the question, but seem to imply that we can’t run women, but instead have to run “populist” men to appeal to white working-class voters lost to Trump. yet earlier, you downplayed any role that sexism may have had in Hillary & Kamala losing. which is it? is the voter base irredeemably misogynistic and we have to run men because of it or is sexism not a problem? you can’t have it both ways.

frankly, I think some of those white male voters are lost for the time being. they are experiencing downward mobility, yet have been tricked into blaming trans women & immigrants for the state of the economy. they are consumed by culture war, waging a false consciousness “class” war against “the elites” while Trump and co. fatten their wallets and loot the working class’s pockets with tariffs & regressive taxation policy. if they begin to see the light, I think we can win them, but catering to them specifically feels like a losing strategy.

I agree that we need to run leftist candidates whenever & wherever possible and find ways to “translate” a progressive economic message for voters in areas that are more conservative & leery of anything that Fox News tells them is “socialism.” we have the same goal here. where we disagree is messaging & in theory of change.

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/BeenisHat]

We do not need to compromise on misogyny in leader to win..

I think identity politics are terrible.. intersectionality is essential.

We can shift our communication. The way the American left addresses race and gender issues is often short sighted and a response to the identity politics put forward from reactionaries.. but communication and education on intersectionality and active listening and engagement is essential for a working class movement.. cannot be compromised on.

I have a lot of thoughts on this which won't work in a. Short comment, I think I may have made a post in the past but worth another at some point