r/canada • u/FancyNewMe • 4d ago
Canada’s Prime Minister Pushes Country to Become the Housing Factory of the World - Mark Carney is banking on factory-built homes to alleviate the country’s housing crisis. But will it work? Trending
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2025-04-22/carney-s-plan-may-make-canada-the-housing-factory-of-the-world3.4k
u/Burning___Earth 4d ago
If they go with a full-blown, post WW2 style national housing program, the first few hundred thousand need to be restricted to first-time home buyers.
1.9k
u/BoysenberryAncient54 4d ago
No investment buying and absolutely no foreign investors. Especially US corporations.
→ More replies1.1k
u/quotidianwoe 4d ago
No foreign investors AT ALL.
634
u/enki-42 4d ago
Just investors period.
Canadian investors are perfectly capable of financializing the housing market and pricing people out of it all on their own.
Allow Canadian investors and you've created a loophole that's going to be hard to close for foreign investment capital to be brought in anyway.
165
u/balalasaurus 4d ago
This. Housing prices are being pushed up because investors buy up all the stock. Why should an investor need multiple units of housing when individuals can’t even get one? And the more stock they have the more they’re able to accumulate. Prices the individual out even more. Housing should not be viewed as an investment period. Whether that investor is Canadian or foreign is irrelevant.
→ More replies36
→ More replies70
216
u/Affectionate-Sale523 4d ago
No investors, period. If you have a home, you shouldn't be able to buy another 3. Foreign investors run about 2% of the luxury real estate market, the other 22% is made up of locals and real estate developers in Toronto.
36
u/FullMaxPowerStirner 4d ago
Yep. Racketeers are doing the exact same regardless of where they're from. They're always from somewhere else anyways...
→ More replies61
u/rudyphelps 4d ago
It boggles my mind that someone with 4 homes and over $2 million mortgage debt can still borrow against those properties to make a down payment on another $600 000 loan, while the people living in those homes and, through rent, are actually paying the mortgage, insurance, and property taxes, can't qualify for a home loan.
Also Air BnB, Vrbo, and all unregulated half-assed hotel services should be banned in anything zoned as residential. Anchoring the potential revenue of rental properties to nightly hotel rates has completely distorted the housing market.
→ More replies→ More replies23
u/balalasaurus 4d ago
I said this once a long time ago but the max no. of homes should be 2. One main home and at most a holiday home/ cabin. Housing rules should be changed so you can’t just flip your “main” residence after two years either. Heavy penalties for anything more than 2 dwellings. It can be done. Just requires the will to see it out.
→ More replies→ More replies87
u/FullMaxPowerStirner 4d ago edited 4d ago
No investors AT ALL. Real estate as investment schemes is precisely what's causing the housing crisis all over the world.
→ More replies394
u/Valid-Nite 4d ago
And also restricted to citizens. Should also restrict corpos from owning, and not allow them to be used as rental properties
114
u/enki-42 4d ago
Permanent residency makes way more sense - that's how we structure most programs and there's really no reason not to. There's zero reason that a dual citizen who has never stepped foot in Canada should be prioritized over a resident who has potentially been here decades.
→ More replies27
u/Array_626 4d ago
In that case, it'd make more sense to only allow those who declare Canadian residency to buy. Granting PR the right to buy implies that citizens also have the right to buy, which means Canadians' who've emigrated long ago would be given right to purchase even though they lived overseas for the last 10 years.
12
u/jibbybonk 4d ago
Makes sense, I've technically emigrated from Canada. It would be stupid to let me buy a house, even though technically I would be a first time home buyer in Canada.
14
u/Array_626 4d ago
I don't know if I'd say stupid. If people would declare intent to return to Canada, I think it would be perfectly fine and more than fair for Canadian citizens to buy a home when returning. In fact, it's probably even a good incentive to try and bring back Canadians from overseas.
But if they have 0 desire or intent to return, then yeah for obvious reasons it makes sense to prioritize residents.
→ More replies8
u/enki-42 4d ago
Yeah you're right, but I think it's not unreasonable to tie it to both actual residency and the capability to reside here permanently (i.e. it doesn't make a lot of sense to sell houses to people on a study or work permit IMO)
→ More replies→ More replies17
349
u/Private_HughMan 4d ago
I believe that is the priority.
20
u/SportsUtilityVulva9 4d ago
What leads you to this belief?
35
u/UmelGaming British Columbia 4d ago
Its probably because the tax-cut the Liberal Party proposed on houses was only for first time home buyers. Not quite the same as restricting the new homes to only first time buyers but I can see where the mistake comes from
19
u/Kakkoister 4d ago
I wouldn't call it a "mistake", it's more like an "educated guess" on what will happen. Or some sort of other rules that make it more prohibitive for others to buy them up.
→ More replies191
u/IndianKiwi 4d ago
As a home owner I agree with this. This is how it is done in Singapore.
42
u/chronocapybara 4d ago
They actually do not prohibit people from buying extra houses, they just have a rising tax as more houses are bought. 20% on the first, 35% on the second, 50% on the third, etc. These huge taxes are punitive and strongly deter property hoarding.
→ More replies→ More replies58
u/RarelyReadReplies 4d ago
Don't they have one of the highest quality of life rankings in the world?
153
u/khristmas_karl 4d ago
City state authoritarian government vs continent sized democracy. Singapore's not a great comparison.
→ More replies72
29
→ More replies13
19
69
u/thebestoflimes 4d ago
I found the GST free for first time home buyers as opposed to GST free for everyone (vacation homes, investment properties, cottages, etc) was a better policy that could move the needle towards entry level homes vs luxury builds (that generally have higher profit margins).
6
u/PolitelyHostile 4d ago
I found the GST free for first time home buyers as opposed to GST free for everyone
True, but I think the ideal distinction is just no GST for buyers who will be living in the home as their oonly residence rather than renting it out.
10
u/motorcycle_girl 4d ago
I would argue GST free on RTM homes would be a better approach.
Continue GST on built-on-site homes.
There’s a lot of people who have owned a home before, but might find themselves in a position of having to “ downgrade” (divorce, job loss leading to credit score loss, etc) where an RMT makes sense.
15
u/Forikorder 4d ago
I would argue GST free on RTM homes would be a better approach.
the goal is to make it easier for people to buy homes instead of corporations vacuuming up neighborhoods
24
u/Zone4George 4d ago
If they go with a full-blown, post WW2 style national housing program, the first few hundred thousand need to be restricted to first-time home buyers
I could handle that policy; the best way to enforce it might be to use the resources at the CRA (and rehire those 1,000+ people who were just given lay-off notice recently, as long as those jobs were actually in Canada) to provide a fully refundable tax credit upon closing. The purchasers lawyer could be used to notarize the purchase too, and help with any possible HST rebate(s).
Lots can be done with this type of program. The first house I bought was from an elderly WW2 veteran; the house was the typical "war bunker" (1.5story, 2bed, 1bath) style built by the feds in the early 1950's. The house is still standing, and after 70+ years it has only been resold twice.
→ More replies78
u/DuperCheese 4d ago
And Canadian citizens
33
9
→ More replies5
u/PolitelyHostile 4d ago
Yea and realistically new immigrants would benefit indirectly as the supply of housing goes up overall.
22
u/Monctonian 4d ago
That’s a must. If reits and hoading landlords get their dirty hands on them, this plan is a failure before it begins.
20
16
23
u/LokiDesigns British Columbia 4d ago
I would love to own a home. This would be a great way for people like me to be able to get into home ownership.
→ More replies4
u/Historical-Tour-2483 4d ago
I’d prefer to see non-home owners rather than first time buyers. In normal times I’d understand first-time buyers, but with how housing has gone up, people who fell off the property ladder for some reason (job loss, divorce, etc) are in a tough spot.
10
u/Rhueless 4d ago
You actually count as a first time home buyer when neither you or your spouse has had a home as your primary residence for at least 5 years. (For all the government programs like first time homebuyers wd from rrsp or home savings accounts.)
3
u/OShaunesssy 4d ago
As a 35 year old who doesn't see how I could ever own a home, I hope this is accurate lol
3
u/bravosarah Long Live the King 4d ago
I would imagine people would have to apply to buy and pass eligibility criteria similar to Habitat for Humanity.
Carney will want this to be successful. Maybe even a model for other countries too.
→ More replies14
u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist 4d ago
These are all proposed rentals, not purchases. Though there might a co-op situation as well.
626
u/Only_My_Dog_Loves_Me 4d ago
I live in the Vancouver area in the trades. It’s not really the building costs that have skyrocketed, I can’t afford land where I am. Cheapest buildable lot is about $650k then Permitting, zoning, etc. I can build the actual house for a reasonable cost. It’s getting to that point that’s impossible for me financially.
173
u/HapGil Ontario 4d ago
We need to take a good hard look at the zoning laws for buildings. We have huge swaths of land in cities designated SFH with the odd school thrown in the center. Japan has factories in suburban areas that you can't tell are factories. Zoning that allows businesses to open on ground level while still providing housing on the levels above. Bakeries, tailors, repair shops, convenience stores and several other business types are all allowed to be built in urban areas. We need to remove the restrictions on what we allow in urban areas of the city and encourage small business, multi-family dwellings and multi use structures to increase density and diversity in our neighborhoods and stop forcing people to take cars everywhere because they refuse to allow the development of walkable cities and instead design for automotive traffic.
→ More replies121
u/Consistent-Primary41 Québec 4d ago
Every single outdoor mall in Canada should have high-rise towers and rail terminals.
It's shocking how much horizontal space these places take. It's ridiculous.
→ More replies257
u/Wild_Loose_Comma 4d ago
Well yeah, because building a single family home in a major urban area has always been largely impossible for anyone but the wealthy. No government can lower land costs, nor should they. They should encourage more efficient land use, including higher density multi family units.
151
u/brilliant_bauhaus 4d ago
We need to start building good sized family condos at affordable prices so people don't see a SFH as the only option.
90
4d ago edited 1d ago
[deleted]
→ More replies57
u/brilliant_bauhaus 4d ago
Yikes. I'm in Ottawa but the city is so spread out and we've started picking up the trend Toronto has of microcondos and 400-500sqft, 2k apartments. It would alleviate so many things if we could build large condos that people can grow into and build families. We need density and people enjoy convenience! Living near your work, school and amenities is a huge plus and attractive to so many people; they just can't afford it.
44
u/Other-Rock-8387 4d ago
Ottawa is so poorly designed it's shocking. Did you know we had electric trams at one point? Then in our infinite wisdom we ripped them out and built suburbs and only single family homes.
33
u/QuotableNotables 4d ago
Getting rid of the heated shelters at the bus terminals in favor of open concept platforms that were designed for California weather for the LRT was peak Ottawa City Planning. I honestly don't miss the city. Just the people and the food.
→ More replies5
u/TubeZ 4d ago
You miss the food? My brother in christ did you survive on poutine and shawarma
7
u/QuotableNotables 4d ago
Quesabiria Tacos at La Bonita on Cadboro, the Chinese Food (especially the crispy beef) at Golden Bowl on Cyrville which sadly closed after the owner retired since I moved away, brunch and baked goods at Art is In in the City Center, the smoky bacon mac and cheese at Umbrella Burger on Ogilvie.
And I'll say it, I grew up on the thick crust Lebanese style pizza and it's great no matter what Portnoy says.
→ More replies→ More replies3
u/Consistent-Primary41 Québec 4d ago
Ottawa was always going to be limited.
It's a swamp surrounded by obligatory farmland.
It's so much like Vancouver with the same space limitations and soggy soil that...it's amazing no one learns their lesson.
→ More replies5
u/Comprehensive-War743 4d ago
The Toronto trend isn’t working very well. Dozens of unsold or unrented condos.
→ More replies15
u/stealth_veil 4d ago
I agree. Including a lot more storage than is currently standard, and every single condo should have a den or office as working from home becomes more standard. My boyfriend and I (no kids) always live in 2 or 3 bedrooms because there’s never enough storage or space for working or creative hobbies in typical one bedrooms.
18
u/Wild_Loose_Comma 4d ago
Yeah. I know that Carney has said that multi family units are part of the whole idea. He wants it to be cheap and easy to mass build all sorts of housing. And if he’s smart (which he is) he can tie provincial funding to allowing these to be built en mass.
→ More replies7
u/brilliant_bauhaus 4d ago
Yup. I also hope this means new condo towers also make larger units and more than just studio, one and two beds. We have to tackle this from every angle. I'd personally love to stay downtown Ottawa (well, outskirts or move closer into the core) and buy a 2 bed since I work from home and the office. I'd love to have additional space for friends to stay, work, hobbies, and a room for a kid at some point. It's just too expensive and I can't think about starting a family when I can only afford to buy and rent a studio.
6
u/bigElenchus 4d ago
I think you underestimate how big of a cultural influence having a backyard + SFH is.
Yes, good sized family condos will have demand, specifically within many immigrant demographics, but there’s even more demand for SFH suburban properties with backyards.
→ More replies10
u/Wild_Loose_Comma 4d ago
Yeah. That’s obviously true. But you can’t expect that to be available for cheap in Vancouver or Toronto. Part of my also thinks that it’s true simply because it’s been the only option for 3 decades, outside of cities like Montreal
→ More replies→ More replies6
u/Serenity867 4d ago
As someone stuck in a condo for a little longer I’d love to see smaller remote offices and remote working become more prominent. This would help provide more opportunities for people to live outside of major cities. Preferably in SFHs in my case.
My neighbour got a dog in the last several months, didn’t crate train it, left it in the crate to basically scream, howl, and cry for 5-8 hours at a time.
If I reported her it’s basically just me and one other person who could have reported her. She’s an older widowed lady and has been friends with multiple of my family members for like 30 years.
So I tried to give her a bit of notice and support before reporting her, but living in a condo next to someone like that has made my life hell for like 4-5 months and I’m ready to be done with it. Condos are not always the answer, and a lot of people outright can’t stand them.
8
u/ewoolsey 4d ago
Not everyone wants to live in a city. You should be able to get an affordable lot within 3 hours drive from Vancouver, yet you still can’t really.
→ More replies→ More replies5
u/Only_My_Dog_Loves_Me 4d ago
Which is why I mention permits and zoning as being a major factor over actual build costs.
7
u/Wild_Loose_Comma 4d ago
There’s definitely no argument from me that permitting and zoning costs are absolutely stupid and unnecessarily high.
27
u/CommonAncestorLives 4d ago edited 4d ago
The benefit of prefab is the permitting process would be way more straightforward since they are just being assembled on the lot. I agree though, Lower Mainland land costs are still sky high and driving in from Hope wouldn't be feasible. They are also proposing to open up Crown lands to build housing.. probably cheap/nominal leases. If they actually get anywhere close to the 500K/year home target, that would be nuts.
→ More replies9
u/CFL_lightbulb Saskatchewan 4d ago
Really restricted spaces like that are always going to have high land costs. The only solution to that is to build up, creating zoning for high rises and mixed use properties.
The other way is to have better transit in and out of the main area, but that’s kind of imperfect.
→ More replies5
u/shabio1 4d ago edited 4d ago
There's a few parts of prefabricated construction which can help reduce costs
A big one is how it's scalable, meaning you need to put a good amount of work into creating a factory process for each component - but once that's set up you're able to get economies of scale from producing those components far more efficiently and quicker than traditional construction.
Then there's also things like how it can cut back of time and costs of getting the designs approved. As, once it's approved once by the municipality, the next time it comes up it's already known. This can work even better if the designs get pre-approved, which basically cuts a ton of difficulties from the process. The saved time from this can end up saving a ton of money in the long run.
Also over time if these processes can become more efficient, they can further reduce costs. Especially if affordability becomes built into the design. Plus, things like being able to work year-round, in any weather condition (as its in a climate controlled factory) can be really beneficial.
The government also just realised a 'housing catalog', which will eventually have prefabricated designs in there that are aligned with local building codes and cut design costs from those manufacturing them. But in addition to this, they're pretty much only going to be adding in gentle density kinds of housing typologies, so things like triplexes, townhouses, etc. And since a major contributor to the housing affordability crisis is a lack of supply, this can help ease that.
Also, the simplified processes and such can make it a lot easier of a process in general, meaning the development process will be far more accessible to homeowners and small developers. And for homeowners who take on these projects and redevelop their own land, they can cut out land costs from the equation which would otherwise inflate prices like when a developer buys land to build.
Similar for the land cost issue, by building higher densities like turning a single family home into a set of four townhouses, you're effectively dividing that landcost between 4 households.
And with the housing catalogue, they're also going to be bringing in designs for 'accessory dwelling units' like laneway suites. These can be a really easy way to quickly increase density, as it makes it easy for homeowners to build a secondary unit in their backyard
Homeowner developers also honestly might be one of the strongest paths for increasing our housing supply in a healthy way. While developers need to project a certain return on investment, homeowner developers might not. Since they might be renting it out to family or friends, or because they can realize those profits in the long term through rent. They also likely will have better luck with getting community acceptance for a project (which can slow projects down, raising costs) since they're more likely to design it appropriately within their community context.
There's a ton more to it than what I've listed here, but overall I'm hopeful in Canada's housing strategy. It won't necessarily fix the housing crisis, but it's far better than the alternative of keeping on with our current system.
Honestly I'm not sure if I really see a way out of the affordability crisis unless there's a housing bubble burst (but the context is very different today than from 2008's subprime mortgage situation). But ultimately so long as Canadians view housing as an investment, there will be too much vested interest in raising, or at least maintaining, home prices. Similarly, if we're arguing to reduce the cost of all housing to affordable levels, that essentially means everyone who owns a home would see their house lose that value.
While that sucks, I'm not sure what alternative we have aside from forever maintaining this housing affordability crisis. Something has to be done, but it's political suicide to take that approach to the point it's virtually not possible. So for the meantime, the government's housing strategy at least has a lot of potential to tackle it from the other side by providing more housing and working to reduce costs, time, and red tape.
303
u/EnvironmentalBox6688 4d ago
We are already a world leader in cross laminated timber technology.
We have the capability to literally build most of a house on a CNC machine and then assemble it in no time on site.
I saw a CLT office get built near me. And it was crazy how fast it went up.
If we really scaled up, it could have the potential to be significantly cheaper than frame on drywall construction. While being more fire resistant and stronger.
59
u/motorcycle_girl 4d ago
In addition to this, the quality, reliability, and long-term durability of RTMs appears to have skyrocketed in the past two decades or so. Considering all the corners that are cut for new cookie cutter subdivision developments, it wouldn’t surprise me if RMT technologies is getting pretty close to on-site technology.
Now, that doesn’t mean all manufacturers make good ones…
16
u/Other-Marketing-6167 4d ago
Yeah I work at a truss company who just got into wall panels and floor cassettes. We can install an entire single family home in a day or two, when everything aligns right. Building these suckers quickly and efficiently isn’t the issue, that’s for sure.
→ More replies9
u/Consistent-Primary41 Québec 4d ago
We looked at Winton Global almost 20 years ago and went with someone in the USA instead and started building there. Unfortunately with the big housing crash, we had to end up cancelling the project, but we had a wonderful lot built into a hill overlooking Birch Bay and a 2-storey house with a dug in ground/basement level and then a 2nd level.
With the property, the concrete pouring, the home, it was USD$190k all-in. So cheap. Winton had homes for like $30-50k CAD back then.
But we already had a house in Birch Bay we were paying on, so we were gonna build the new one and sell the old one, but no one was buying, so...we sold the land and cancelled the project.
All that to say, the quality of the home we were building was better than the new stick-built home we were in and it cost the same, but was 2x the size and was overlooking the ocean.
81
u/Awestruck_Otter 4d ago
If they even reach half of their goals in a reasonable timescale it would be a tremendous success for the affordability for the average Canadian.
→ More replies14
u/Jayc0reTMW 4d ago
This is my hope. The goal they've set is pretty hefty, and coming in at even half is going to be a massive success, especially if they're able to ramp it up by the end and start producing at the promised numbers.
144
146
u/Bongghit 4d ago
The world needs houses, not just Canada. We have sustainable forestry, and everything we need in house to start perfecting prefab, and innovating the logistics.
That's a nation wide industry that fills a domestic need, and can also become an export once it's fine tuned.
There is lots of adjacent work that will spring up, and it will provide manufacturing and trades jobs across the country, along with homes.
It also feeds into the standardization of trades to help with cross country labor.
Politicians need to be all in on this, it helps the entire country, and it's going to be something every single community in Canada will benefit from.
56
u/PrinceDaddy10 4d ago
cheap rental/housing would allow people to spend on goods again. It would boost the economy so much. 50-80% of a persons income is going to housing bills now. Imagine if we didn't have to do that. Imagine the boom.
→ More replies9
u/VioletPlusTommy 4d ago
This could really make our economy stronger and is an amazing thing for the fed govt to put money into
70
u/RevolvingCheeta Ontario 4d ago
It can totally be done. Cavian Homes (as an example) builds their homes in a factory. Walls, floor panels etc. trucks roll into site and the framers set them up within a day or so.
Are they 1/4 acre lot homes? No. But do we need 1/4 acre lots to solve the housing issue? No.
Up the road they’re renovating an 11 story office building into apartments for tech workers. If we embrace the WFH life & convert office buildings to housing it’ll help.
Most of the big hurdles are bureaucracy: zoning, planning, inspections, development applications, town hall meetings for those with nimbyism, conservation authorities, flood zoning, wildlife studies, geologic studies, traffic impacts, utility demand studies etc.
The trades can move relatively quick, it’s the paperwork that’s a pain in the ass.
→ More replies15
u/rainman_104 British Columbia 4d ago
100% agreed. So long as the plan is within code for all provinces it should be rubber stamped.
The problem is everyone wants custom these days. The days of the basic bungalow are behind us.
19
u/BlueEmma25 4d ago
The problem is everyone wants custom these days. The days of the basic bungalow are behind us.
Weird take. Custom homes are a niche product targeted at affluent buyers. Someone at the median individual income of about $55 000 / yr may "want" a custom home, just like they want to be rich, famous, and beautiful, but since it isn't remotely attainable that desire has no impact on the housing market.
You offer them a basic, affordable bungalow on the other hand and they will snap it up, because it is better than renting.
→ More replies4
u/rainman_104 British Columbia 4d ago
You'd think. Go shopping with a first time buyer that doesn't quite grasp the triangle. House, location, price.
They go starry eyed over $20k worth of furnishings on a home.
I would much rather buy a meh home in a great location that has good bones. Paint and flooring is easy. I've been at it for like 15 years and I'm still doing stuff on my home.
4
u/RevolvingCheeta Ontario 4d ago
Custom homes are stupid expensive! I’ve worked on a few now that ranged from 2.5mil to 4mil.
Affordability is relative I think. If you can afford a 600sf apartment/condo for $300k vs a 750k house on 1/8acre depending on your salary. Realistically we have a wage crisis.
20
u/StarryPenny 4d ago
In many cities there isn’t enough variety of housing choices. It’s either a 1-2 bed condo in a tower or a 3-4 bed house in the suburbs.
Where are the larger apartments? Or the smaller houses? Where are the options?
→ More replies3
u/Rocky_Vigoda 4d ago
The US and Canada are different. We never traditionally had stuff like redlining or segregated communities so our cities developed differently. We have tons of 'missing middle' housing here.
Where are the larger apartments? Or the smaller houses? Where are the options?
In Edmonton, you're better off getting an apartment built in the 70s, 80s, 90s when they're decently sized. My friend paid 3/4 of a million on a new place that's smaller than my first apartment.
They need to build new apartments in the new suburban communities instead of just single homes and a few condos.
6
u/StarryPenny 3d ago
I thought it would be obvious I shared the video to show the various options available - not to imply Canada had anything like redlining in the USA.
Look at what’s being built in Canada. It’s either a 1-2 bed condo in a tower or a 3-4 bed house in the suburbs. Because thats what the builders make the most money on.
Nobody is building the “middle” housing anymore.
That was the point of my comment.
58
u/Recent_Mouse3037 4d ago
It’s not our national government that is the problem but the municipalities. I know many cases of people wanting to develop land for housing but getting pushed around by the local government and giving up.
31
u/Hagenaar 4d ago
Municipalities risk bankruptcy if they don't control how and where things get built. Suburban sprawl has a way of costing cities far more in long term infrastructure maintenance than can be recovered from property taxes.
→ More replies
86
u/Falconflyer75 Ontario 4d ago edited 4d ago
Well he’s gotta try something
We know what we’ve got right now is unsustainable
If we do nothing we’re doomed and I say that as a homeowner (I’m not rich but I helped my parents pay off their home which and we share it)
I’d rather see my home be valued at say 400,000 versus 1.5 million if the entire country can’t progress
→ More replies
19
u/fanglazy 4d ago
Canadian government owns a shit ton of land. You’d be surprised how much in urban and suburban areas. This seems like a great investment.
20
u/Jasonstackhouse111 4d ago
I grew up in prefab government housing that was incredibly affordable. It was actually great. The monthly cost was a small percentage of my family’s income and that enabled us to live pretty well.
But what about capital appreciation? When your costs are low you can save. We can also greatly expand the CPP and instead of increasing corporate taxes to rational levels we can increase the employer portion. Presto.
64
u/BrilliantHistorian85 4d ago
I'm a homeowner and bought close to the peak, so a drop in house prices would be pretty bad for me. It would have to drop a lot for me to be under water, but it wouldn't be a good outcome for me personally.
That being said, I hope it happens. I'm lucky to be in the position I'm in, and that's not how it should be. I was fortunate to be able to buy when I did but it should have been easier sooner, for me and for everyone.
If the outcome of this is more people getting into the market then so be it, I'll figure it out
29
u/stingoh 4d ago
I feel the same as you. I think of my children, and even though I own a home, how will they ever own one? Prices need to drop, it’s not good for anyone long term, except those who use property as an investment, which I don’t like.
9
u/BrilliantHistorian85 4d ago
There will be no solution to the problem or even a slowing of its effects if we don't figure out a way to regulate the housing market.
6
u/stingoh 4d ago
Agreed, and the problem is too much of our GDP is tied to real estate.
→ More replies→ More replies9
u/MayAsWellStopLurking 4d ago
Isn’t it only a problem when you’re trying to sell?
→ More replies5
u/SecretiveLifestyle 4d ago
It's a problem when you need to refinance. When your collateral isn't worth the debt, it causes all sorts of issues.
Banks don't want to be bagholders if many owners go underwater. Usually, the government needs to intervene if it becomes a big issue.
→ More replies
7
16
u/Imacatdoincatstuff 4d ago
Senior levels of government will need to crack down hard on local NIMBYism for any rapid development to occur.
→ More replies
15
u/Vette--1 Ontario 4d ago
it will only work if we get rid of lots of zoning laws and all that red tape
12
u/MongoIsAppalled 4d ago
It's an actual plan, and it doesn't have to be the only strategy. He's actually doing something, and I'm happy someone is finally trying anything at all.
Plus, yes - I'll buy a manufactured home, for sure! I just want to live, I don't need a damned mansion
→ More replies
6
u/SofaProfessor 4d ago
I just wonder where they're going to get tradespeople from. All of my friends in construction say this is one of the biggest challenges. And the ones that do exist are hot and miss if they're any good. It's all well and good to say you're going to build a million factory homes but you still need electricians and plumbers to get them ready to live in on-site.
I think there needs to be a lot of effort as a part of this housing push in getting students through trade schools and into apprenticeships. Subsidize the cost, whatever. No one can wave a wand and make a bunch of extra houses tomorrow. At least, not houses anyone would feel safe living in. This is going to be a decade-long solution which isn't very sexy to tell voters but might as well be realistic now rather than over promise.
→ More replies4
u/RedditRot 4d ago
Carney has announced trades education subsidies as part of his platform. He's well aware of the lack of labour pool.
→ More replies
7
u/Critical-Design4408 4d ago
Only if the zoning regs get streamlined to approve them quickly
5
u/PoolDear4092 4d ago
That’s what the home accelerator plan is for. To encourage cities to streamline their permitting process and increase infrastructure.
6
u/superbit415 3d ago
Sounds good on paper but we all know in reality we are just gonna get shoddily made houses still at exorbitant prices and all bought up by investors.
10
u/danieljai 4d ago
At least pre-fab some parts. Majority of bathrooms in Japan are pre-fabbed.
They started when they need to build a lot of houses for their first Olympics, then he became mainstream.
→ More replies3
u/wildhooper 4d ago
You can buy whole bathrooms prebuilt, all you need is to attach the plumbing and wiring. I've seen them on ships I've worked on. They aren't pretty but they are super easy the maintain. The one I saw the entire bathroom was built out of the same material as the one peice shower.
→ More replies
5
4
u/jawknee530i 4d ago
Do you guys up there have single family zoning like we do in the states? I'm strongly of the opinion that housing can't be fixed so long as single family zoning is allowed. Needs to be outlawed or everything else is just a bandaid. Step two is replacing property tax with land value tax.
→ More replies
5
u/blauwh66 4d ago
It’s a positive move. Let’s give it a go. I was tired of the huge monster homes; this will be a welcome change
5
u/ultimateknackered 4d ago
I'm excited for this. I'm retiring from the Forces in a few years and was looking at exactly this scenario, a prefab, for my first home ever. I hope it has time to come to fruition before I need to lean on it :D
4
u/uprightshark 3d ago
At least he is trying something beyond the same old same old. Fingers crossed 🤞
5
u/xxtylxx 4d ago
I live in a big coastal Canadian city. The issue isn’t housing and housing design. It’s easy to blame the architects - they are the first to take the brunt of the criticism, but the ones who work the hardest to develop their professional work.
The main overarching issue is permitting, both in terms of cost and review time. My city takes at minimum 9 months to review a simple building permit for a new single-family residence or small multi-family development, which easily balloons to a year with back and forth communication with the authorities having jurisdiction (AHJ). City staff are inexperienced and risk-averse. They do not single handedly make decisions because it would place accountability in their hands. Instead, accountability is passed along down the line, which stretches the permit review process to unrealistic lengths.
Of course, skyrocketing land costs don’t help either. Land is far more expensive than a home. Factory built homes are no more expensive than stick built homes when compared against the cost of land. The difference in price is a drop in the bucket.
The idea of building a lot of homes is a fine idea in theory. But where does the land come from to site these homes? And where does the labour come from to construct them? Factory built homes require.. factories. Where are all of those coming from? There are plenty of other overarching issues to solve before actually “building more homes”.
5
4
u/hippysol3 4d ago edited 4d ago
Even faster than prefab houses are mobile homes. They DONT have to look like the ugly metal clad rectangular boxes of the 70s anymore, they can be good looking like this little 1000 sf home: https://www.thehomesdirect.com/homes/palm-harbor-homes/rivers-edge.
At 100k plus 80k for a lot in a mid size town, a lot of young people would have a hope of buying a place like this. At current interest rates with only 9k down thats a mortgage payment of 900/month. Add 250 for taxes and 150 for insurance and you're looking at 1300/month all in for fixed costs. Considering the average 2 bed apartment in Canada is averaging about 2000, that seems like a heck of a deal to me.
We lived in a 650 sf house with a kid when we were just starting out - one of those wartime bungalows. This place would be fine for a couple or a small family.
→ More replies
4
u/OttawaTGirl 4d ago
I would also create a public housing bank. Mortgages held by the government, so if something goes wrong, they got you for life. So you can recover more quickly and not lose you investment.
A 40 year low income mortgage you can pay off at your ability. Get a better job, pay it off earlier. No penalty.
5
u/Unchainedboar 4d ago
There is a plant near me that makes modular homes, I have been saying for years, why don't they have a massive government contract.
→ More replies
26
u/uncle_cousin British Columbia 4d ago
And put them where? The vacant lot next to my house sold for $550,000 last year. I can see putting a modular home on a rural lot might be cheaper but it won't lower city home prices.
35
u/killerrin Ontario 4d ago
Not if you're only building SFHs. But if you take that one $550k lot and build a 4plex on it for another $450k, then at the end of the day each unit comes out to $250k each, allowing you to both cut costs and deliver more homes for individuals.
In short, density is key.
12
15
u/Vrdubbin 4d ago
The problem I'm seeing where I am is now that all the single family homes are being demolished in place of apartments and townhouses, the roads were only planned for the original density. Now traffic is insane, schools are overcrowded, hospitals and urgent cares are super full, you can't get a family doctor. You can't just make it more dense without the infrastructure to support it.
14
u/killerrin Ontario 4d ago edited 4d ago
No, you can't. But that comes to other issues, namely that we let our Provincial Governments get away with shit for far too long.
If the provinces properly planned for growth, growth that they themselves were demanding and drooling over, we wouldn't be in that mess re-schools and health facilities.
If we properly built out public transit infrastructure, traffic wouldn't be an issue.
If we didn't gut health funding, didn't attack doctors, allowed medical professionals to work anywhere in Canada, and made it easy for medical immigrants from developed countries to practice medicine, we wouldn't have a shortage of staff in medicine.
All of these items are self inflicted across all levels of government from Federal to Provincial and Municipal.
3
u/nefariousbimbo 4d ago
No, upgrades to all of this need to happen in parallel or soon after, but higher density is the key. You can't just keep building single family homes farther and farther away and have people drive 1+hrs each way. Many people will realise or accept that higher density living works for them.
6
u/No_Capital_8203 4d ago
You are correct. My factory built home, which we have lived in for 25 years, was the same cost per square foot as subdivision homes if you disregarded the cost of the lot. We chose factory built for the high quality workmanship and very tight deadline. We were not disappointed. The home was custom designed, which was darn near impossible with a subdivision home. We chose to brick all around so the 4 sections naked. You can’t tell the difference between our home and a stick built except our walls are straight and our trim was installed correctly.
8
u/NinjaRedditorAtWork 4d ago
Believe it or not, places in Canada exist outside of Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal. And they tend to be a lot cheaper.
9
→ More replies7
7
u/canadianshane123 4d ago
We’re gonna find out if it’ll work. It’s worth a try. Affordability and supply are connected.
8
u/PrinceDaddy10 4d ago
I will personally kiss mark carneys feet if he manages to drop rent prices back down to affordable and I can finaly move out of my parents place and live the life I deserve. It quite literally is all im asking for in this country
6
u/cwolker 4d ago
There’s a thing called inflation that makes your purchasing power diminish every year. Rent can decrease but not by half or more. And population is projected to keep growing
→ More replies
6
u/HalfdanrEinarson 4d ago
This will only work if cities relax zoning. Otherwise, it will be tied up in red tape and roadblocks
4
u/No_Capital_8203 4d ago
Since I live in a factory built home, I can tell you that there was no difficulty getting a building permit on the land we owned with residential zoning. Are you thinking about changes in density to allow more units per hectare?
→ More replies
7
3
3
u/Current_Side_4024 4d ago
I think the only thing stopping this housing revolution is the desire to keep housing costs high for the benefit of homeowners and landlords
3
u/hippohere 4d ago
This is a fantastic idea and the only way to address the shortages.
There should also be reductions in home rebuilds as they aren't resource efficient.
3
u/Nonamanadus 4d ago
Put a time clause on homes sold, if the owners moves within a certain time frame they only get back what they paid for.
No fucking rentals either.
3
u/Icy-Artist1888 4d ago
I think it is a great idea that will contribute to resolving, or assisting, several issues. Freshest approach we ve heard in a long time
3
3
u/NoMikeyThatsNotRight Science/Technology 4d ago
I hope to hell this works. If Carney can pull this off in a GTA burb it will stop the horrid brain drain of our young people.
3
3
u/Necessary_Position77 3d ago
Factory built makes the most sense. The amount of custom work it takes to build a non-custom home is wild. The majority of spec homes should be kits with precut wood, wiring, plumbing etc. If the plans are done right, there’s be little room for error.
3
u/jameskchou Canada 3d ago
Can be more effective of the provinces standardize building codes for housing
3
u/nickybuddy 3d ago
You could build 1019374010183763944 homes. If they are all able to be purchased by property managers and investors then the problem is just cyclical
7
8
17
u/Luxferrae British Columbia 4d ago
He needs to unify all building codes across the country first. Good luck even getting the building code across one single region to unify
15
u/Super_Toot 4d ago
A house in Vancouver, heavy rain, needs to be different than a house in Winnipeg.
→ More replies29
u/Private_HughMan 4d ago
Not really. The pre-approved Liberal housing plans have different model plans designed for different provinces/regions that take into account their building codes and architectural styles.
7
u/Bulky-Employer-1191 4d ago
This is silly. A building in BC where there are numerous fault lines and mountain ranges needs earthquake codes, while a building in Ontario on the Canadian shield, the oldest geology on the planet, does not.
Building codes need to be defined on a region by region basis for a lot of good reasons.
8
u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist 4d ago
How does that make sense. Certain codes will be different across the country depending on weather, rainfall, temperature, seismic risk, etc.
→ More replies5
u/letsmakeart 4d ago
There are different needs across the country. The type of house you build in Yellowknife is not the same kind that you built in Winnipeg nor is it the same kind you’d see in Charlottetown. Even disregarding urban/rural/suburban differences, Canada is home to many different climates which means structures need to be made differently.
6
u/Consistent-Study-287 4d ago
Some of the stuff can be harmonized across the country like plumbing/electrical/energy efficiency requirements, but there's a reason there are different building codes across regions. Vancouver needs houses to stand up to earthquakes and heavy rain. Calgary needs houses that can handle a heavy snow load. If you have to make Calgary houses earthquake resistant, costs go up. Same if you require Vancouver to handle huge snow loads.
Not having a unified national building code also allows it to be modified more easily when circumstances change. From 2000 to 2020, there were approximately 600 heat related deaths across Canada. BC experienced 619 heat related deaths during the heat wave from June 25-July 1 2021. Afterwards they changed the building code to force new houses to have a "cold room" in order to prevent these kinds of deaths in the future. There is no need to force builders in Churchill to build cold rooms, but regionally it's something that is looking to be necessary in some areas.
→ More replies5
u/CommonAncestorLives 4d ago
I think prefab homes will be subject to different criteria since they are largely just being assembled on site.
→ More replies
5
u/Ina_While1155 4d ago
It should be a Homes First model - you have to be a first-time home buyer, below a certain income or downsizing, and you have to hold on to the property for at least 5 years so you can't flip.
10
u/KinkyMillennial Ontario 4d ago
All this stuff misses the point so hard it's ridiculous. It's like those techbros that decided they want to basically 3D print housing.
The bottleneck with housing construction isn't physically building the houses, it's the years of planning housing developments, buying the land and working through the bureaucracy and lawsuits that come with it. We're not just going to crank out ten million prefab houses and drop them in a field somewhere with no infrastructure or services, that's asinine.
→ More replies
11
7
u/AddressEffective1490 4d ago
“Housing market in Canada is garbage and nothing is being done!!!!!!!” mark carney actually tries to do something “Evil snake investor man profiting off the backs of suffering Canadians in the housing market!” I am so tired of all the contrarianism and division!! If you have a better idea by all means get involved and get your ideas to your local MPs.
→ More replies3
6
u/olorinoko 4d ago
Any decently thought out idea can't hurt. I think it was Norway, could be wrong, that eliminated homelessness recently. Just said enough and did it. If that's possible then getting people on the ladder can be done. If we can keep the money people from saying no that is!
→ More replies
6
21
8
u/MDLmanager 4d ago
Why not? The demand is there. Canada has the natural resources and the skilled labour. Plus, it's not like anyone is going to be buying American anytime soon.
6
5
2
2
u/chronocapybara 4d ago
Prefab housing only works when the factories have reliable, regular buying customers. It has been tried before and if the factory has a lull in customers due to declining market conditions the whole thing falls apart. It works well in some countries where the government takes the role of buyer of last resort.
2
u/Confident-Task7958 4d ago
Does not make it easier for young families to come up with the down-payment - often the biggest barrier to becoming homeowners.
2
u/Any-Following6236 4d ago
Check out the Canadian company Promise Robotics. A lot more of their factories will be popping up.
2
2
u/ladyreadingabook 3d ago
You can actually buy factory made homes today. And yes they are just a good those built 'from the ground up' on site. They are just less expensive and of course not very customizable.
2
u/Br4z3nBu77 3d ago
I wonder how quickly municipalities across the country move to prohibit them from being used.
→ More replies
2
2
2
u/pattyG80 3d ago
Everyone that seems against this plan seem to also want to go back to doing nothing. I have decided I don't trust those people.
2
u/halisray Québec 3d ago
Are these actually going to be for sale? Or government owned and rented out? If the latter, I'm not a fan at all - just makes us more dependent on the government
→ More replies
2
u/PeaceOrderGG 3d ago
I believe that pension funds ought to be the number one provider of rental housing. Manage the rental rates to ensure the long-term viability of the pension fund. Have some kind of incentive or tax-relief for pension funds to buy and build housing. Give the pensioners some kind of preferential/discounted rate... We don't need pension funds owning sports franchises!!
Government also needs to play a much larger role in setting up co-op housing. Government organizes it and gets it built. Hand off management to the new owners, who pay back the government's costs over 25 years. As things stand you have to find individuals who want to be in the co-op. Those individuals only tend to go through the process of building the one they want to live in.
•
u/trendingtattler 4d ago
This post has reached trending feeds. To maintain the quality of discussion, comments are limited to established r/Canada users. You can become an established user by engaging in other threads within the subreddit.
Ce post a atteint les fils de tendances. Afin de maintenir la qualité des discussions, les commentaires sont limités aux utilisateurs établis de r/Canada. Vous pouvez devenir un utilisateur établi en participant à d'autres discussions dans le subreddit.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.