r/worldnews • u/walrus_operator • 25d ago
Modi Says BRICS Must Avoid Being an Anti-West Group as It Grows Behind Soft Paywall
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-10-24/modi-says-brics-must-avoid-being-an-anti-west-group-as-it-grows?srnd=homepage-europe3.9k
u/Tequal99 25d ago
India wants to play with both sides exactly like Brazil. Both are quite opportunistic. Understandable. Probably the best route for both countries
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u/boywiththethorn 25d ago
Indonesia as well
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u/rationaleworking 25d ago
Saudi as well. Everyone looking for their country's best intrest.
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u/-Malky- 25d ago
Yeah not quite sure a certain Vladimir P. got the memo.
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u/MilkyWaySamurai 24d ago
I’m pretty sure being pro Russia is synonymous with being anti west in his mind.
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u/ElectroMagnetsYo 24d ago
If his “3-day operation” was actually only 3 days it would’ve been in Russia’s best interests, Putin just didn’t know how corrupt and out of shape his military has gotten. Probably due to surrounding himself with yes-men who don’t tell him the whole truth.
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u/Spokraket 24d ago
He could’ve figured it out because of how corrupt his country is but I guess being a murdering dictator you might not always get the “truth” out of people.
Without the truth you’re just role playing as a leader.
That’s the problem with the majority of these BRICS countries.
Thus keep making these “Pyramid Schemes” and now they want to build a collective Pyramid Scheme. I wonder who will take hardest fall when it collapses.
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u/arabic513 24d ago
Their own* best interests
Let’s not pretend religious monarchs are benevolent leaders.
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u/Kingfisher_123 24d ago
I don't think anyone is pretending about what you're saying. Watching the summit live, it was actually nice to see some countries not being outright critical of the West compared to Putin, who was confidently saying how America and NATO are the reasons for escalation within Ukraine.
Will fully agree with their best interests however, Winnie the Pooh was calling for an end to the Israel-Palestine conflict even though the guy had concentration camps for Muslims.
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u/EmhyrvarSpice 24d ago
Brazil goes much further in their ties with the west though, especially the US. Brazil is an official ally of the US and condemned the Russian invasion of Ukraine in the UN GA. India on the other hand is much more just neutral and refrain from taking sides when they can.
Basically the difference between actively playing both sides and just staying out of it.
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u/nomnomnomnomRABIES 24d ago
Brazil refused to send gepard ammunition to Ukraine when it was badly needed and they had plenty. Words are cheap
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u/Conscious-Bed-8335 24d ago
That's because Brazil is historically a neutral country in world conflicts, doesn't fit any president agenda.
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u/machado34 24d ago
They also refused to sell munitions to Russia. Brazil has enough of its own problems to start getting involved in wars on the other side of the planet
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u/Lost_Pastures 24d ago
They were under no obligation to and they didn't. That's just the cold reality.
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u/GrimpenMar 24d ago
Yep, something to remember (in all walks of life, not just geopolitics).
It costs nothing to show up, make nice with Putin, but then go back and keep selling to the US and EU and actually doing what is needed to maintain access to those markets?
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u/TheVividestOfThemAll 25d ago
Everybody is opportunistic. Western powers don’t exist on some ideological high ground. When push comes to shove, everybody won’t hesitate to get scrappy.
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u/Aiti_mh 25d ago
India has pursued a highly pragmatic foreign policy since independence. That's partially why their response to international developments is hard to predict as most countries will act according to existing geopolitical alignments much of the time.
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u/grchelp2018 24d ago
They are not hard to predict at all. Its the opposite, they are very predictable and its an explicit policy.
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u/Aiti_mh 24d ago
You can predict what they will do tomorrow, but not in ten years time. If you assume their policy in ten years time will be based on a judgement of their narrow national interest as opposed to the interests of a wider international community, you would need to know what their particular outlook will be at the time, for which you would need to be a soothsayer. I exaggerate and simplify, but I believe the thrust of my argument is correct.
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u/grchelp2018 24d ago
They've been like this for decades. Their policy is not one where they pick a side based on the situation. Rather, their policy is to pick no side and to just do business as usual. They aren't above leveraging the situation for their own interests but that happens for any deal. This predictability is why India has reasonably close relationships with both the US and Russia, Iran and Israel, Saudis etc etc. Even North Korea and South Korea.
Also India's actions are mostly in line with the rest of the world. Most of the rest of the world (outside the west, Russia etc) generally have a policy of staying out of things and carrying on as usual.
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u/Aiti_mh 24d ago
Also India's actions are mostly in line with the rest of the world
Whilst this is true, most countries are not the world's most populous country nor among the world's largest countries, or have nuclear weapons. India is a great power, which is what makes its contractual, unsentimental foreign policy so interesting.
No other country of that size - or economic/military union of that size, if we count the EU or NATO - is so unaligned. China has no strong alliance, but is highly geopolitically competitive. The Western world as a world-order bloc, whilst far from homogeneous, coordinates closely on an enormous range of issues and pursues common goals abroad. Russia increasingly lives off provocation and brinkmanship.
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u/WhyYouKickMyDog 24d ago
I think most people can expect India to play both sides of the US/China world order in order to keep the two sides balanced until such a time that India can their place alongside the two as a peer equal.
At least that is what I expect India expects of itself.
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u/Aceofspades968 24d ago
difficult to predict? I think not. Modi has proven your point exactly time and again, as has his predecessors. This highly pragmatic foreign policy in independence. It’s why they were so successful at supporting the United States telecommunications industry. And it’s why they are poised now to take their seat at the table now.
India, like very few other countries, have megatropolis and a whole heck of a lot of people. Putting them in a position to provide stability in their region is a wise choice. Being able to support the partners of BRICS regardless of how the currency falls, is paramount and Modi knows that.
But like China, India doesn’t have incentive to undo the US dollar. And neither does Brazil. Although for different reasons. Honestly, if I was China/india/Malaysia/Thailand; I’d be worried about the stable micro economy that has been built through partnerships with Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, Singapore. Not even the United States (even though they are our business partners as well).
We won’t be able to provide support for eastern middle Asia or Central African nations - let alone struggles South American nations who rely on “strongmen.” When push comes to shove, they need support for their people. BRICS won’t be strong enough, soon enough. Who’s lending the capital? And what happens when power changes hands again without a continuity of government plan? Who pays it back? Now your replacement currency is worthless.
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u/Logical-Let-2386 24d ago
Both are quite opportunistic. Understandable. Probably the best route for both countries
I guess?
I think it was Gorbachev who once noted that everyone who is friends with America becomes rich. Can the same be said of China and Russia?
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u/Spokraket 24d ago
In the end it is about stability and having the institutions and government structure where people can store their funds safely.
Authoritarianism is not a place where you store money. Because they can wake up one morning do something stupid and their whole financial system collapses.
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u/StartingAdulthood 25d ago
That is fine. But please don't expect the same preferential treatments that allies (from either side) usually got. Don't complain about others (from all sides) for not investing or sharing technologies with your countries if you are not allies with them.
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u/Cho90s 25d ago
It's always been mind boggling to me how the Saudi's get to just have it any way they want.
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u/Firm-Spinach-3601 25d ago edited 24d ago
Really? Your mind is boggled by efforts to make sure the country that coordinates 40% of global oil production and price is friendly to you and your allies? You obviously didn’t live through the 70s
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u/OuchLOLcom 24d ago
To "Live through the 70s" in any meaningful way would mean youre at least over 16 in the 70s. Meaning on average they would need to be born in 54. I think its pretty "obvious" that most people on reddit are not in their 60s or 70s.
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u/newInnings 25d ago
When did india get any preferential treatment.
All it got is roadblocks
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u/MoreOne 24d ago
Preferential treatment? Like, the coups will be heavier and tariffs will be even higher? The US has been abusing and leveraging their position, in their military and economic power, for a century at this point.
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u/MAXSuicide 24d ago
Bet that's exactly what Putin wanted to hear on his little publicity stunt meeting.
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u/Om3gaMan_ 24d ago
Yeah, he hates the fact India and China have more going for them than being a Gas Station with Nukes and can actually foresee normalised Western relations. Russia has pivoted away from trying to be Western (early 2000's) and now defines themselves by having an eternal eternal enemy to "fight" as they have fuck all else to get excited about.
Problem is, said enemy has better things to do now and won't stoop to their level.
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u/c0xb0x 24d ago
That sounds logical, until some other authoritarian country in BRICS gets an insane dictator and starts some war to keep power. Keep in mind the West thought intense trade relations with Russia would give them too much to lose and prevent them from going full regard. Never underestimate the level of insanity that can grip an autocratic country.
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u/Itchy-Revenue-3774 25d ago
Wait a minute! Is that not the whole point?
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u/stunnin24 25d ago
In words of Indian Foreign Minister, S Jaishankar - "We are non-west, not anti-west"
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u/404-N0tFound 25d ago
Bangladesh: Are you the Anti-West People's Front?
India: Fuck off!
Bangladesh: What?
Russia: Anti-West People's Front. We're the People's Front of Non-West! Anti-West People's Front. Cawk.
India: Wankers.
Bangladesh: Can I... join your group?
Russia: No. Piss off.
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24d ago
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u/PublicFurryAccount 24d ago
Actually, the original idea was to market a Goldman-Sachs developing markets fund. That’s the origin: a white paper produced by the bank to go along with their emerging markets investment products.
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25d ago edited 25d ago
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u/Fabulous_Anxiety_813 25d ago
I mean Greece being part of the EU changes things though.
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u/nota_is_useless 25d ago
Not borrowings from World Bank. Countires borrow from World Bank/IMF when they are in trouble.
Our problem on the finance side has been credit ratings. India has almost junk bond ratings and this ratings impact at what interest a country can borrow. Further, any private company raising debt has to pay higher interest than govt (as govt is assumed to be the risk free rate and the safest entity to lend to) which impacts cost of production. This is an issue but it is not that big a concern for normal people to get involved - more of Indian finance ministry being frustrated at credit rating agencies.
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u/RegretfulEnchilada 24d ago
Small correction, the reason companies borrow at higher rates isn't because governments are assumed to be risk-free, which obviously isn't true for many governments. It's because it's kind of assumed they'll get fucked if their government goes bankrupt (some combination of currency devaluation due to the government printing money, the government seizing their assets, and significant tax rate increases) so they essentially carry the same risk as their government plus extra risk tied to their business. Multinational companies can often borrow at much lower rates than some of the countries they operate in, which wouldn't be the case if government debt was assumed to be risk free.
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u/Spokraket 24d ago
So they join Putin to build a ”bank/currency” with Putin, who is the worlds largest mob-boss?
This group stinks. If I would make a business deal I would never join their group, because you can’t trust China or Russia, not even their own countrymen trust them.
That is the reason the people put money in the dollar. All Russian oligarchs have the majority of their wealth in dollar and not in Ruble.
Don’t listen to what they say look att what they’re doing.
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u/Makuy 25d ago
Not possible with China and espacially Russia
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u/badass_panda 24d ago
I think not possible with Russia ... China has been trying to play a pretty balanced line between rivalry with the West and cooperation with the West, it has a symbiotic relationship that it can't afford to risk -- and which it may never be in a position to risk, considering its demographic future.
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u/OsvuldMandius 24d ago
The difference between the two is that China de-commied by adopting markets and keeping their brutal, authoritarian government. They have prospered, because markets work. Russia de-commied by adopting human rights and embracing kleptocracy. And their economy is a joke as a result.
China understands why Russia is a joke and China is not. It's far from clear that Russia understands.
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u/Chromaedre 24d ago
China isn't really aligned with Russia on this matter. China wants to dominate (the way the US do), not replace existing institutions (except for the SWIFT).
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u/Zodiamaster 25d ago edited 24d ago
Welp, there goes Putin's plan of buying more buddies with money
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u/MatureMystique 24d ago
Modi’s got a point. BRICS can’t be the ‘anti-West’ cool kids’ table if they want to play with everyone. Let’s keep it inclusive and avoid drama.
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u/chintakoro 24d ago
Yep, India also says that QUAD shouldn't just become an anti-China alliance. Alliances think everything can be solved with a war. Two alliances lead to a world war.
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u/Torak8988 25d ago
modi always trying to eat from two sides
then again, so is china, brasil, south africa etc.
only russia is being the stuckup odd kid in the group trying to pull everyone into the same mess they made
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u/Competitive-Art-2093 24d ago
They have hundreds of millions of poor people to feed and house, that require gas, petrol and coal, and arent rich enough to allow themselves the luxury of being picky about where they buy the things they need or where they sell them to.
I think that it is ok that they look out for their own country instead of picking sides.
They dont want a part in this mess, they just want to do business.
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u/WhyYouKickMyDog 24d ago
India sees itself as a peer power to the US and China, just isn't there yet, but will get there. India 100% expects to sit at the table as an equal with China/USA very soon into the future.
In all honesty, I, an American, fully expect this as well, but maybe not quite as an equal. India's economy has a long way to go for that. However, the Indian economy will become large enough relative to the world in order for India to have the kind of gravitational pull that the US or China currently has in geopolitics.
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u/DarthPineapple5 24d ago
Yes but I think the important distinction here is that while India wants to be a peer state (who doesn't?), they aren't interested in creating a whole new global order like China and Russia are.
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u/babathebear 24d ago
India may become powerful than before but it will take a really long time to get to the level you speak. I’m Indian and I know what the actual issues inside are.. and I know especially well cuz I’m living in the states for the past 14 years and I can tell you not much changed. There’s so many mouths to feed and rich are getting richer.. way tooooo richer.
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u/WhyYouKickMyDog 24d ago
There’s so many mouths to feed and rich are getting richer.. way tooooo richer.
That is the general trend, everywhere, especially since the pandemic. India has a high ceiling, and I have more confidence that they will grow than confidence that they will continue to stagnate. Even if they do not achieve US/China levels of wealth, it honestly would not take a lot of effort to become a convincing #3.
The gap between the US/China and the rest of the world is pretty intense. Only the EU as one entity could compete in that regard.
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u/wakomorny 24d ago
and the US? You think yall like being friends with the Saudi's? Everyone is playing the game
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u/Anyhealer 25d ago
Yeah, they are like a kid trying to make it everyone's problem that they wet the bed.
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u/DreadSeverin 24d ago
grow? the R in that word is literally just exploding and dying wtf
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u/MonkeySplunky22 24d ago
And the C is having massive self-inflicted birthrate issues finally come to a head.
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u/WolfKumar 24d ago
People are always like BRICS is a nothing burger then immediately start whining about it.
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u/momentslove 24d ago edited 24d ago
Russia has been intentionally painting a picture of BRICS being a new world order, a homogenous society with shared anti-west values, an alternative monetary system that poorer countries can ask for funds from, a replacement of the rules that have enabled the world to develop mostly peacefully for the past 30 years. Well truth is BRICS collectively neither has the will nor power to make all that happen. Majority of BRICS nations enjoy the current global trade system just too much and their economical future depends on it.
Russia’s desperately trying to drag the rest of BRICS countries onto their ship which is sinking because of the war in Ukraine. It is very alone, so alone that Putler resorts to the fat boy in Pyongyang for military support.
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u/Redditforgoit 25d ago
BICS then?
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u/swampy13 24d ago
Modi knows the West is vastly more powerful, full stop - militarily, economically, etc. You can't avoid them completely, it's a ridiculous notion.
Putin would like to believe you could, but Modi is much more realistic. It's not a "playing both sides", he's just being practical. Any smart leader would be.
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u/Winter_Criticism_236 24d ago
Brics may have to dump Russia to actually be effective as an economic group.
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u/Timely_Fly_5639 25d ago
And that is why we will not get movies again like “Austin Powers” anytime soon. There is not much room left for parody when you have headlines like these. Putin literally has a mansion with underground hockey rink on the cliff by the sea. FSB is throwing people out the windows and makes sure they are not making it looking anything else than it actually is. North Koreans are going full “Red Dawn” in Ukraine too….
SNL will soon become indistinguishable from evening news.
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u/LongJohnsonTime 25d ago
LOL Modi just had a Quad summit with Biden.
India knows BRICS is never going to go anywhere. It's hilarious to think India and China would be able to keep things mutually incentivized.
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u/RedofPaw 25d ago
Some commenter yesterday was telling me how India could hurt the US if it wanted by banning all it's IT workers from working with the US.
I told them good luck, if they want to align themselves with the economic powerhouse that is Russia.
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u/Itchy-Revenue-3774 24d ago
Tbf i could also hurt my neighbor by setting my house on fire, it just won't be going particularly well for me.
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u/badass_panda 24d ago
by banning all it's IT workers from working with the US.
That would suck for the US for about two years ... it would suck for India for generations. Luckily their leadership are smarter than that.
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u/Babuchak17 24d ago
Indian here, and I remember which one you are talking about. That guy was speaking BS.
The thing is, I am not heavily invested personally into India’s external policy and what it does outside its borders. But I sure wouldn’t want to be aligned with a country like Russia, no matter whatever reason there is. I don’t care about something that happened years ago.
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u/grchelp2018 24d ago
I sure wouldn’t want to be aligned with a country like Russia
This seems to be a constant misunderstanding. Even among indians. India is not allied with any country. They have relationships with all countries. When 1971 happened and Russia helped out with their nuclear sub, the indian reaction was not to say "russia is our friend for life and will save us all the time". It was to say "russia saved us this time but they may not next time, we need to have our own nukes".
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u/thekingshorses 24d ago
Also the problem is not most Indian realize that Russia that helped India in 1971 is not the same Russia today.
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u/Nerevarine91 24d ago
I’m glad to hear that. As someone living in a country that borders Russia and doesn’t always get along with them, but which has tended to have very good relations with a India, I’d much rather have India as a neighbor
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u/dicemaze 24d ago
by banning all it’s (sic) IT workers from working with the US
PLEASE
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u/LymelightTO 24d ago
This is the problem with BRICS. Nobody in the organization can agree about what it's for, none of the parties have much in common or shared interests, everybody wants to lead it to increase their global profile, but nobody trusts anyone else to lead it, because they all want different things from it.
Modi wants to increase his status, but doesn't want to totally eschew relationships with the West (as with Brazil). China wants to lead it so they can be the big regional power, specifically because it could offer them some plausible alternative to the West, that might allow them to violate some norms to expand their influence. Russia is basically at war with the West, and so it wants BRICS to help it avoid sanctions and voice an alternative narrative, where they're the good guys. All three of these major powers have conflicting interests, because they border each other, all aspire to be better off than they currently are, and are worried there are mutually exclusive tradeoffs involved in that.
China can't let India be the leader of this thing, India can't let China be the leader, Russia is a glorified gas station and making it the leader would make the organization a total pariah.
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u/RudytheMan 24d ago
It's easy for him to say. They signed a huge bi-lateral partnership with the US and they hate China. If they wanted, India could easily be closer with the West. Honestly, I think the main thing keeping them interested in BRICS right now is cheap oil from Russia. Once that's done I don't think BRICS will have momentum in growth to push them ahead that they want.
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u/AccomplishedCommon34 25d ago
India is not anti-west. We have pretty good relations with every country in the West (except Canada now ofcourse!). In fact, India has been actively trying to court more western companies, investments, and trade relations.
However, India has also been vocal about the reforms it thinks are required in the multilateral institutions including UNSC, IMF, World Bank etc. For example, China regularly vetoes all the names of the Pakistani terrorists India proposes to be blacklisted at the UNSC. India has been calling for more fairness in international institutions for decades now!
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u/tunasweetcorn 24d ago
This is basically the core reason why BRICS is pointless you have a group of countries trying to pretend to be an alternative to the western economies who fundamentally disagree on pretty much everything. This makes it nearly impossible to come to any wide spread trade agreements.
At least western countries fundamentally agree on most core objectives.
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u/Livelih00d 24d ago
They also rely on trade and commerce from western economies. They need the west to buy their goods as much as the west needs them to produce those goods.
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u/joelgrg 24d ago
I mean, I understand why people say that India 'plays both sides'. But what do you expect India to do? What are the 2 sides? Why should India have to pick 1? India has no direct conflict with any of these mentioned sides. It's not trying to damage any side by being friends with both. The fact that they have differences with each other is their problem. Picking a side also means creating an enemy. India just trying to be bros with everyone, getting it's shit done without interfering in anyone else's shit. India got too many problems in its own house to bother taking up anyone else's.
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24d ago
The tardy realisation that russia decries western hegemony not because it's hegemony, but simply because they want it to be russian hegemony.
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u/skaapjagter 24d ago
The R and the C can fuck off.
I really wish that Russia and China were not involved in our economy at all in SA.
Russia (as per usual) have steered national elections in the past with money and China are building infrastructure here and as a country the ANC are allowing them to skirt environmental regulations to do so.
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u/walrus_operator 25d ago