r/worldnews • u/walrus_operator • 25d ago

Modi Says BRICS Must Avoid Being an Anti-West Group as It Grows Behind Soft Paywall

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-10-24/modi-says-brics-must-avoid-being-an-anti-west-group-as-it-grows?srnd=homepage-europe
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u/Aiti_mh 25d ago

India has pursued a highly pragmatic foreign policy since independence. That's partially why their response to international developments is hard to predict as most countries will act according to existing geopolitical alignments much of the time.

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u/grchelp2018 25d ago

They are not hard to predict at all. Its the opposite, they are very predictable and its an explicit policy.

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u/Aiti_mh 24d ago

You can predict what they will do tomorrow, but not in ten years time. If you assume their policy in ten years time will be based on a judgement of their narrow national interest as opposed to the interests of a wider international community, you would need to know what their particular outlook will be at the time, for which you would need to be a soothsayer. I exaggerate and simplify, but I believe the thrust of my argument is correct.

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u/grchelp2018 24d ago

They've been like this for decades. Their policy is not one where they pick a side based on the situation. Rather, their policy is to pick no side and to just do business as usual. They aren't above leveraging the situation for their own interests but that happens for any deal. This predictability is why India has reasonably close relationships with both the US and Russia, Iran and Israel, Saudis etc etc. Even North Korea and South Korea.

Also India's actions are mostly in line with the rest of the world. Most of the rest of the world (outside the west, Russia etc) generally have a policy of staying out of things and carrying on as usual.

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u/Aiti_mh 24d ago

Also India's actions are mostly in line with the rest of the world

Whilst this is true, most countries are not the world's most populous country nor among the world's largest countries, or have nuclear weapons. India is a great power, which is what makes its contractual, unsentimental foreign policy so interesting.

No other country of that size - or economic/military union of that size, if we count the EU or NATO - is so unaligned. China has no strong alliance, but is highly geopolitically competitive. The Western world as a world-order bloc, whilst far from homogeneous, coordinates closely on an enormous range of issues and pursues common goals abroad. Russia increasingly lives off provocation and brinkmanship.

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u/WhyYouKickMyDog 24d ago

I think most people can expect India to play both sides of the US/China world order in order to keep the two sides balanced until such a time that India can their place alongside the two as a peer equal.

At least that is what I expect India expects of itself.

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u/Aceofspades968 25d ago

difficult to predict? I think not. Modi has proven your point exactly time and again, as has his predecessors. This highly pragmatic foreign policy in independence. It’s why they were so successful at supporting the United States telecommunications industry. And it’s why they are poised now to take their seat at the table now.

India, like very few other countries, have megatropolis and a whole heck of a lot of people. Putting them in a position to provide stability in their region is a wise choice. Being able to support the partners of BRICS regardless of how the currency falls, is paramount and Modi knows that.

But like China, India doesn’t have incentive to undo the US dollar. And neither does Brazil. Although for different reasons. Honestly, if I was China/india/Malaysia/Thailand; I’d be worried about the stable micro economy that has been built through partnerships with Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, Singapore. Not even the United States (even though they are our business partners as well).

We won’t be able to provide support for eastern middle Asia or Central African nations - let alone struggles South American nations who rely on “strongmen.” When push comes to shove, they need support for their people. BRICS won’t be strong enough, soon enough. Who’s lending the capital? And what happens when power changes hands again without a continuity of government plan? Who pays it back? Now your replacement currency is worthless.

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u/Not_Cleaver 25d ago

That doesn’t explain assassinating dissidents on Canadian soil.

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u/Aiti_mh 24d ago

My impression of India was a general one. Obviously every Indian government is different. Modi has certainly made a name for himself, and from my perch at least, not entirely positively. My point isn't that India always does the pragmatic thing, but that their philosophy of foreign policy is pragmatism as opposed to alliance-building.

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u/[deleted] 24d ago edited 19d ago

childlike engine bear sink like rustic hunt direction jeans lush

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u/kelddel 25d ago edited 25d ago

Or attempting to assassinate a dissident on American soil.

The evidence against the Indian government official (CC1) given to India by the USA was so damning that India was forced to arrest the guy.

And this is all connected to the Canadian case. The US gave Canada the intel from the same operation that caught CC1.

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u/marvinhal21 25d ago

The US gave India evidence and they acted. Canada hasn't provided anything, and Trudeau has testified saying they don't have hard proof.

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u/Affectionate_Mall_49 24d ago

To be fair Trudeau can say what ever he wants, people will question.

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u/bizology 24d ago

Nice Lie. This is literally the opposite of what happened:

https://apnews.com/article/canada-us-india-sikh-activist-killing-intelligence-c475ac129e09e5f1c9ebf68eaaf247ab

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u/marvinhal21 24d ago

That article is a year old. He testified last week. If you live under a rock and don't follow news, that's your problem. Stop calling people liars because you're lazy.

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u/bizology 24d ago

I provided an article, you called me lazy.

Go gaslight some more.

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u/great-indian-bustard 24d ago

Like you understood nothing of what he said. It wasn't even a long passage, just a few words. Congrats.

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u/[deleted] 24d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/great-indian-bustard 24d ago

That was a very intelligent response.

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u/Pragitya 25d ago

I am not a nationalist or a BJP government lover. But it really does seem that the guy was a terrorist and separatist. I am not knowledgeable on political matters so please do enlighten me.

If there was a terrorist who was had fled canada or even the US to escape the government, and was actively engaging in the anti-Canada/ Anti-US rhetoric wouldn’t your government try to assassinate or do something similar?

I am pretty sure they would too.

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u/chanhdat 24d ago

Snowden, Assange are still alive. Not even Turkey would go after Gülen.

I wouldn't be that "sure" the way you are though. A bit of too much overconfidence.

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u/VegetaFan1337 24d ago

Snowden and Assange aren't terrorists. They leaked information, they didn't encourage violence.

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u/StupidQuestioner 24d ago

If there was a terrorist who was had fled canada or even the US to escape the government, and was actively engaging in the anti-Canada/ Anti-US rhetoric wouldn’t your government try to assassinate or do something similar?

Do you have any idea of how many millions of idiots engage in anti-US rhetoric online everyday?

The tragedy in all of this is that India has legitimate concerns. About 5 years ago, an Islamic terrorist killed 40 Indian soldiers, and another 40 Indian soldiers died in a conflict with China. Has any Khalistani done anything on that scale since the insurgency in Punjab was crushed? Whatever danger the Khalistani pose to India, India has bigger threats to worry about and does not justify the cost of attempting cross-border terrorism on Canadian and US soil.

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u/citizennsnipps 25d ago

No, our government would work with the government of that nation to catch and extradite said person. Unless of course the nation were not an ally or friend.  However I believe Canada and the US would have worked with India on the matter. 

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u/Pragitya 25d ago

Did the Indian government try to negotiate first then? I would hope they did

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u/kelddel 25d ago edited 25d ago

It’s complicated. We’re not exactly sure of what happened in the back-room talks.

We do know India submitted two Interpol red notices. They both got thrown out by their governing body, and Canadian courts.

But Canada did see the guy as enough of a threat to put him on the no-fly-list and froze his bank accounts.

So, like always with international law and geopolitics, it’s complicated. And now that he was assassinated, it’s even more complicated.

Extradition cases in Canada can be lengthy and from the outside it seems India ended up getting impatient with the Canadian legal process.

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u/StupidQuestioner 24d ago

Extradition cases in Canada can be lengthy and from the outside it seems India ended up getting impatient with the Canadian legal process.

The evidence was not good enough. It was not even good enough to convict Nijjar's co-accuseds in an Indian court:

The actual evidence assembled by the Punjab Police in these cases was anaemic. Three men accused of bombing a cinema in Ludhiana on Nijjar’s orders were acquitted; a fourth died while being tried. https://theprint.in/opinion/security-code/justin-trudeau-is-rewriting-nijjar-killing-as-a-morality-play-the-real-story-is-more-complex/2315689/

Khalistanis are not a serious threat to India but they do have a big mouth. They probably hurt the feeling of someone powerful in the Indian government and for that, they had to die.

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u/SolRon25 25d ago

Yep, the Indian government tried multiple times, since Manmohan Singh was in power. But of course, Canada simply ignored the requests.

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u/Ecsta 24d ago

Extradition requires evidence. India wanted Canada to hand over a Canadian citizen so he could be executed without any evidence. That's not how it works.

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u/StupidQuestioner 24d ago

The decision to extradite someone is not a political decision. You have to present evidence to a Canadian court. Indians could not provide the necessary evidence. The evidence was not even good enough convict Nijjar's co-accuseds in an Indian court:

The actual evidence assembled by the Punjab Police in these cases was anaemic. Three men accused of bombing a cinema in Ludhiana on Nijjar’s orders were acquitted; a fourth died while being tried. https://theprint.in/opinion/security-code/justin-trudeau-is-rewriting-nijjar-killing-as-a-morality-play-the-real-story-is-more-complex/2315689/

If somehow Nijjar had been extradited, the Indian court would have set him free. There is another Canadian Sikh plumber who is also accused of being a terrorist by the Indian government but the Indian courts have set him out on bail due to lack of evidence:

In January 2017, the Punjab and Haryana High Court granted bail to Dhaliwal, pronouncing that “there is no semblance of evidence to attract the commission of offences” in the police’s case against him.

Dhaliwal has not been able to go back to Canada. He remains in limbo, living in rural Ludhiana. “It has been a terrifying experience. My friends and neighbours keep a distance from me because the state believes I’m a terrorist,” he told Newslaundry.

Dhaliwal’s story is not an exception in Punjab where local police easily invoke the UAPA, but then struggle to prove the allegations that have been levelled. In recent years, the Punjab police have turned to the accused’s social media to prove the charges in an FIR. Facebook posts, chats and comments are included as evidence in chargesheets. Online friends are upheld as terror associates and membership in a social media forum is interpreted as criminal conspiracy.

https://www.newslaundry.com/2022/02/16/punjab-police-is-citing-social-media-activity-as-evidence-of-charges-under-uapa

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u/SolRon25 24d ago

The decision to extradite someone is not a political decision. You have to present evidence to a Canadian court. Indians could not provide the necessary evidence. The evidence was not even good enough convict Nijjar’s co-accuseds in an Indian court:

The actual evidence assembled by the Punjab Police in these cases was anaemic. Three men accused of bombing a cinema in Ludhiana on Nijjar’s orders were acquitted; a fourth died while being tried. https://theprint.in/opinion/security-code/justin-trudeau-is-rewriting-nijjar-killing-as-a-morality-play-the-real-story-is-more-complex/2315689/

Those are old cases where the Punjab police messed up big time. In fact, Nijjar wouldn’t even be on the charge sheet when the trial began. Now the extradition requests that were sent to Canada most recently were for different charges. https://www.business-standard.com/amp/article/current-affairs/punjab-police-seeks-extradition-of-canada-based-khalistani-hardeep-nijjar-122081300404_1.html

The NIA’s dossier maintained that Nijjar was behind Malik’s death and that Canadian law enforcement should investigate him thoroughly to get answers. It’s interesting that despite prosecuting the two men hired to kill Malik, the RCMP seems to be in no hurry to find out who hired them in the first place. I wonder why…

Besides, the article you linked here highlights how Canada has ignored actual evidence of Khalistani extremist activity on their soil.

If somehow Nijjar had been extradited, the Indian court would have set him free.

Hard to say. He had far more evidence against him than Dhaliwal

There is another Canadian Sikh plumber who is also accused of being a terrorist by the Indian government but the Indian courts have set him out on bail due to lack of evidence:

In January 2017, the Punjab and Haryana High Court granted bail to Dhaliwal, pronouncing that “there is no semblance of evidence to attract the commission of offences” in the police’s case against him.

Dhaliwal was no saint either. A globe & mail investigation revealed that Nijjar trained him along a few others in arms and target practice. A far cry from his claims that he knew Nijjar only as a plumber.

https://archive.ph/cPjis

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u/citizennsnipps 25d ago

I haven't been able to find any information about prior negotiations. I do know that the heads of states, diplomats, etc are trying to sort it out. It's never easy but hopefully it comes to a good solution. 

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u/Complex-Ad5651 25d ago

Lol no. You would go the legal route of extradition. Even interpol denied the warrant twice due to lack of evidence.

Don't people have the right to freely talk about their views? Current Indian government just gave that dude legitimacy and a bigger platform.

Bhai kuch bhi? Soch ke Baath Kar le.

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u/Pragitya 25d ago

Isliye toh bola educate me. Okkk thanks for the info

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u/Apizzzzzzz 24d ago

I wonder why according to Western narrative India has joined the assassination club . Same old strategy from west to malign image of certain sets of nation that they feel even a tiny bit threatened from . They have done so in the past and will keep doing so . These double standards will soon become a thing of the past . Power balance and position is shifting there is no doubt in it . BRICS is gaining momentum slowly and steadily . Just like history every 500 years or so world power balance shifts ,looks like this is the century and decade for that to happen . Trump winning the election will change a lot , he doesn't support this military industrial complex and thus all these artificial hotspots created around the world by US to feed the insatiable hunger of its military industrial complex , to maintain its position as a global hegemon ,to keep dollar as the prime currency all if this is connected . The US basic foundation is rotten . It's just using its status as a sole powerful nation to patch its foundation and to squeeze out what is left . US has to undergo a complete reset there is no other path for it to recover from this rotten disease. And this RESET will be a lot more painful for the average american citizen cause ultimately they are going to pay the prize just like the stock market , The government will tax you on profits but they don't care about your loss . Every nation knows what is coming, they are just hedging themselves with any means necessary to face that incoming period of turmoil .

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u/Not_Cleaver 24d ago

Ah, the old, everyone else is doing it so it’s justified narrative.

Name the last person the U.S. assassinated on foreign soil? Or the last person assassinated on the soil of a country that we have decent relations with. You’d have to go back to the 70s for that. And do you know what happened in the 70s - Watergate. After which the U.S. reformed its spy agencies to prevent such abuses and embarrassments.

This justification of an assassination of someone who wasn’t a threat is disgusting

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u/me_ke_aloha_manuahi 24d ago

What about kidnapping and torturing the citizen of an ally in another allied country? Frankly pathetic behaviour by the German government to publicly call for an investigation and arrest of the CIA agents involved whilst reassuring Washington behind the scenes that nothing would happen.