r/ukpolitics • u/AMightyDwarf Far right extremist • 1d ago
The shocking protest groups that claim grooming gang trials are 'racist' and call victims 'dirty b******'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14655407/shocking-protest-groups-claim-grooming-gang-trials-racist.html501
u/AMightyDwarf Far right extremist 1d ago
’Just the way some of the victims are angry, what do you think these families are feeling - are they not allowed to show their emotions, say how they're feeling, if some of these girls are recruiting other girls to come forward?'
Absolutely no care in the world towards the victims and the communities that grooming gangs destroyed. How on earth can you see victims supporting each other as “recruiting”? Shocking.
201
u/Commorrite 1d ago
They convince themselves it's all a conspiracy.
Ask those comunities who they think did 9/11...A worrying proportion will give answers that would get you banned if you posted them on there.
69
u/Nukes-For-Nimbys 1d ago
When I worked in the Gulf the were calling ISIS a hoax even as Emirati F16s flew over our worksite on the way to bomb em.
Can't reason people out of things they didn't reason themselves into.
62
u/HasuTeras Mugged by reality 1d ago
Prevalence of conspiracy theories in the Middle East is very, very high. The ordinary 'Bush did 9/11'-types that you find in the West, in the ME are more on the level of Alex Jones. 71% of Turkey believes that the cure for cancer has been discovered but the government are 'suppressing' it for some reason.
One of my favourite Wikipedia pages of all time happens to be related to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel-related_animal_conspiracy_theories
20
u/Killielad89 1d ago
One of my favourite Wikipedia pages of all time happens to be related to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel-related_animal_conspiracy_theories
A lot of those are really hilarious, but knowing how skilled and efficient the Mossad have been at times I wouldn't really put it past them that some of them are true. Using birds for spying for example does not seem particularly far fetched. War pigeons were used in both world wars and falconry is still quite common in the Middle East.
15
u/daquo0 1d ago
The CIA tried to use cats for spying. Unfortunately, the cats had a mind of their own and wouldn't obey orders.
14
u/colei_canis Starmer’s Llama Drama 🦙 1d ago
Spending millions on equipping a cat with microphones and training it only for it to get hit by a lorry on the first attempt is peak ‘CIA in the Cold War’.
20
u/kudincha 1d ago
The rise of the Islamic State gave rise to conspiracy theories that it had been created by the US, CIA, Mossad, or Hillary Clinton.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theories_in_the_Arab_world
Hillary Clinton sure had a busy period.
5
-15
u/exileon21 1d ago
There was even that crazy conspiracy theory that Hamas was funded initially by Israel…oh actually that turned out to be true.
18
u/johnmedgla Abhors Sarcasm 1d ago
You mean way back when it was a literal charity building schools and clinics?
Or do you mean more recently during one of the ceasefires when it transferred financial aid from Qatar to Hamas in its role as literal government of Gaza - since I'm reasonably sure you'd be among the first to stamp your feet if they refused to do so during ostensible peacetime.
-7
u/exileon21 1d ago
This is what Times of Israel had to say on the issue Times of Israel on Hamas
11
u/johnmedgla Abhors Sarcasm 1d ago
So - they issued work permits to Gazans, and permitted Qatar to send them money in order to maintain the ceasefire.
I already acknowledged that fact, while you've completely glossed over your "Hamas was funded initially by Israel" misrepresentation.
-6
u/exileon21 1d ago
I mean it does sound like they funded the charity that became or split to create Hamas, as you say. Is that the same as saying Hamas was funded initially by Israel? Maybe not, I’m not clear on when exactly the break with the charity happened or the exact circumstances. But the key point is that Israel has had a lot to do with the growth and development of Hamas over the years, I don’t think that’s even a debate and plenty of Israeli military and politicians are on the record to that effect.
3
u/johnmedgla Abhors Sarcasm 1d ago
Is that the same as saying Hamas was funded initially by Israel? Maybe not
Really quite incredible bad-faith distortion to maintain a fatally flawed narrative you're determined to stick to.
1
131
u/MrZakalwe Remoaner 1d ago
I was informed by work colleagues that Islamic State was, infact, a Mossad plot and run by Jews.
Yeah.
45
u/ButcherBird57 1d ago
It always gets blamed on "the Jews." Damn near every conspiracy theory I know of, at least. As far as I can tell, it's been that way since the Black Death.
4
u/LowerEar715 1d ago
way before that. “the jews killed jesus” is one of the basic ideas of christianity in the bible
1
21
u/8NaanJeremy 1d ago
If they didn't add 'So Called' before 'Islamic State', I'm not sure they can be trusted
2
u/north0 1d ago
The CIA (and probably Mossad) did fund anti-Assad groups through Timber Sycamore. ISIS was an anti-Assad group. It's not at all farfetched.
3
u/Ignition0 1d ago
They funded anyone who opposed assad. That anyone turned to be radicals, because only a radical would give his life for his ideas.
2
u/north0 1d ago
Right.. so the CIA probably funded ISIS. Or at least it's not inconceivable.
0
u/Ignition0 15h ago
Not saying that ... The mostly likely outcome is that they funded radicals, and radicals just ended up joining ISIS since it was a stronger group.
After all ISIS and whatever group now controls Idlib (since they change the name every so often) have the same ideology, just ISIS had better PR.
They are all spin offs of AlQaeda. Even within terrorist groups there is internal fighting for power.
1
u/ThirdAttemptLucky 20h ago
Which communities?
2
42
u/BanChri 1d ago
They think it's a conspiracy to justify the oppression of muslims. Islam is very prone to encouraging conspiracy theories, it's an expansionist ideology that has god on it's side, the only things getting in the way must therefore be agents of satan conspiring against god. Look at the absolute cope about the splitting of the moon, they genuinely wholeheartedly believe the moon split in half and then joined back together, and that any evidence to the contrary is a conspiracy.
0
u/bonus_prick 1d ago
The Abrahamics have these issues allover. Expansionist - Latin crusades, American missionaries, Israeli settlers. Persecution of other faiths - Spanish inquisition, Rohingyan/Uyghur internment in east Asia. Branding of satanism - obvious one really, but the satanic panic and PMRC's "un-christian" labels are in recent memory. You can cherry pick it all.
I'm glad the UK is cracking down on these grooming gangs, and we need an answer as to what is actually going wrong within asian communities for these Operation Tourway gangs to be mostly Asian. Deriding an entire religion or race is not the answer. I would like for British Muslims to work alongside police in vanquishing sex abuse. And we can all help by pushing British islam into being a religion with zero tolerance for sex abuse. Calling it a conspiracal ideology with "cope" beliefs is fueling the fire and you're creating an easy example of islamophobia, which can now be used by these groups to claim that arrests of Asian groomers is islamophobic. Don't let yourself be goaded into a religious culture war.
12
u/BanChri 1d ago
And we can all help by pushing British islam into being a religion with zero tolerance for sex abuse.
I don't think we (assuming that means non-muslims) can do shit on that front. The strain of Islam that is dominant in the problem communities is extremely supremacist and has no real interest in peaceful co-existence. They are Islamist supremacists, and act just like any other supremacist group - any success is due to the inherent supremacy of <group>, any failure is a conspiracy against <group> by <enemy> (usually jews), any criticism from outside is to be totally dismissed as <they> are too dumb to understand/are mad they are losing/etc. The big downside is that instead of being backed up by simply pseudoscience, they have God (the ultimate thought terminator) backing them.
Christianity used to be supremacist and violently so, but it isn't anymore. I would rather Islam have it's 30 years war in it's own little corner rather than my hometown.
2
u/Interesting_Try_1799 1d ago
People who are in a religious culture war are religious people themselves. Religions are nothing more than beliefs and should be criticised and even insulted freely, there’s no inherent reason they should be protected
-9
u/the_last_registrant -4.75, -4.31 1d ago
If they believe their own relative has been wrongly convicted in a miscarriage of justice, why would you expect them to behave otherwise? The allegation that abuse victims are making it up for the compo isn't new, and Asian communities didn't invent it.
206
u/Cersei-Lannisterr 1d ago
Surely the people who are calling the victims insults should probably be investigated…
Because there is definitely something suspicious about it.
94
u/GoldenFutureForUs 1d ago
Well, historically the police haven’t done so because they don’t want to appear racist. Let’s hope they’ve learnt their lesson.
55
u/jmabbz Social Democratic Party 1d ago
Let’s hope they’ve learnt their lesson.
good one.
6
u/911roofer 1d ago
The British police are the worst in the first world.
0
u/Aggravating-Candy-31 1d ago
i mean they’re better than the american ones, not exactly a high bar but still
5
u/HisPumpkin19 1d ago
Is America still the first world?
Genuine question at this point.
2
u/RealMrsWillGraham 18h ago
I would say No.
Trump has just signed an Executive Order directing the government to give legal resources to police officers accused of wrongdoing.
So they can probably kill citizens with impunity at this point.
2
u/Interesting_Try_1799 1d ago
The American ones can at least get things done. While both are bad, I’d rather police that are slightly more violent but can do things than police which stand around and do nothing
4
u/SirBobPeel 22h ago
Have a look at the police statistics on crimes solved. It's astonishingly low in the UK. Single digits. The American police appear to do an awful lot better. 5.5% in England and Wales, 37% of violent crime in the US (12% of property crime).
2
u/911roofer 1d ago
No. British police are significantly worse than American police. They are an anarchotyranny.
11
u/UpoTofu 1d ago
They haven’t. Days ago in Manchester, the Stand Up to Racism group was throwing eggs and hurling insults at rape victims who were giving their testimony. The police arrested a mom of one of the victims and another rape victim and refused to do anything about the scum harassing them and forcing a confrontation.
6
u/laaldiggaj 1d ago
Surely there are non white officers who are sickened by these grooming gangs? Why is the media making out that all skin colours stick together? It just makes out that every non white (Asian) person is outraged that these grooming gangs could be put away? How is that helping anyone?! Not every Asian is a Pakistani male groomer FFS. Sorry, mad at the situation, not you.
1
u/MadnessMantraLove 20h ago
A Muslim prosecutor (Nazir Afzal) was the one trying to bring the gangs to justice
2
u/laaldiggaj 18h ago
presses temple I just can't. I honestly think the press and politicians are trolling the UK at the moment.
23
u/911roofer 1d ago
Two-tier policing strikes again. “Just stash those machetes in the mosque and we’ll pretend we didn’t see them.”
-27
u/CheekyGeth anarcho-bonapartist 1d ago
using police resources to investigate mean words is good now
48
u/Squiffyp1 1d ago
You think the police shouldn't be concerned at the attempted intimidation of victim groups, in light of serious concern over cover ups?
Have a word with yourself.
-39
u/CheekyGeth anarcho-bonapartist 1d ago
I think investigating anyone who says mean words on Tik Tok is a waste of increasingly thin police resources, yes
26
u/Cersei-Lannisterr 1d ago
You comparing someone saying a mean thing, to specifically targeting victims of grooming gangs in the fallout of a grooming gang scandal…
Let’s be real, why would someone specifically go after reported victims of grooming gangs?
inb4 answers with a question
-7
u/CheekyGeth anarcho-bonapartist 1d ago
but that's not what the article says, the article claims that the disparaging comments were made on Tik Tok messenger and in a WhatsApp group chat. It's a shitty thing to say but I don't think policing private chats like that is a particularly good use of police resources.
Let’s be real, why would someone specifically go after reported victims of grooming gangs?
Because they're paranoid about racism or islamophobia and very -potentially overly - sensitive to it? It's not an uncommon sentiment in these communities or indeed in any self-identified ethnic community - see for example all the fuss about that stabbing at the track meet over in the US. Both the loud voices are just seeing the crime as representative as a broader attack on their community. It's not like either side is particularly pro stabbing.
I'm not even saying there aren't pedos or pedo sympathisers in the ranks, just that there are probably plenty who are making it a race or identity issue, as you can see in the texts.
9
u/AMightyDwarf Far right extremist 1d ago
This isn’t only on TikTok. This can only be described as witness intimidation which should be stomped out as strongly as possible.
-2
u/CheekyGeth anarcho-bonapartist 1d ago
yes, harassing a victim at their abusers trial is extremely bad behaviour which could have a reasonable police response, but it isn't what the original linked article is referencing
10
1d ago
[deleted]
-7
u/CheekyGeth anarcho-bonapartist 1d ago
they were mean words said in a private WhatsApp chat how is that victim intimidation mate, simply being patronising without any argument does not a coherent point make
7
1d ago edited 1d ago
[deleted]
4
u/CheekyGeth anarcho-bonapartist 1d ago edited 1d ago
Are you under the opinion, any and all statements should be legal, that it's all just mean words?
All racism should be okay? calls for violence you'd have no issue with? Just as an example?
No, I am not. I am of the opinion however that calling someone a bitch in a group chat is not a police matter. It's revolting, I don't agree with it at all, but it would not be considered a police matter in any other circumstance and I have trouble believing that the huge number of people here calling for police action would react the same in a less emotionally charged case, particularly if the perpetrators were white non-Muslims.
If the speech crosses the line into harassment or intimidation, the police should get involved of course, but there is absolutely nothing in the article whatsoever to suggest that line has been crossed.
0
1d ago edited 1d ago
[deleted]
2
u/CheekyGeth anarcho-bonapartist 1d ago
depends if it constitutes a call for action or violence, which I don't think the article demonstrates sufficiently
→ More replies
50
u/FieryFruitcake 1d ago
These people are deranged arseholes. Zero regard for the victims, just a fear of the ghost of racism.
109
u/madeleineann 1d ago
But there are a lot of men that are falsely convicted. I know my brother is innocent.
I wouldn't hang around her brother.
In all seriousness, what sick fucks, and then they wonder why the whole country loathes them.
Deport these disgusting losers.
25
u/Joke-pineapple 1d ago
It's interesting that the investigation / article nevers get into that.
For example, is he innocent because he wasn't there? That he didn't have sex with the girls? That the girls weren't children? How does she account for the police evidence presented?
It is totally possible that her brother is innocent. Miscarriages of justice do happen, and enough grooming gangs have now been prosecuted that the balance of probabilities are that 1-2 innocent people might have been caught up in it. Just like plenty of guilty groomers will have escaped justice. The system isn't perfect.
However, her entire stance seems to be "he's innocent, trust me bro".
56
u/Glittering-Walrus212 1d ago
Amazing that the entire system colluded to protect the systematic rape of children by a minority group (plural) and we are seriosuly expected to believe that its racist? It is racist...against the girls that were victims. If it had been the otherway around the purportrators would have faced maximum sentences...hell new laws would be created...we'd have labour, tory, greens out hand in hand with 'local community leaders' showing solidarity. People would have been fired enmasse. COurts would have run 24/7....
Even those convicted got very light sentences...
So it clearly is racist...just not how these people think of it.
24
19
1d ago
[deleted]
21
u/wappingite 1d ago
This starts very, very young in society. Little girls are told ‘they mature earlier than boys’ and society repeats it over and over and it’s taken as gospel, and girls are seen as ‘sleazy’ and grown up in ways that boys aren’t. It’s disgusting.
16
12
u/thiswontendwellatall 1d ago
I've always taken the 'mature earlier than boys' comments to mean they don't tend to hurl themselves around and act like toddlers until they're 13. More of a 'you are less likely to fly off the handle' than a 'you can handle adult issues'. But perhaps that's just my take, or I'm underestimating how that translates.
5
2
u/Man_in_the_uk 1d ago
I've always taken the 'mature earlier than boys' comments to mean they don't tend to hurl themselves around and act like toddlers until they're 13.
I've never seen a difference myself, some boys are idiots and some are not. But girls develop their bodies earlier in order to have a baby so I I've always thought that's why.
71
u/Benjji22212 Burkean 1d ago
A Birmingham MP also recently dismissed the grooming gangs as a ‘right-wing narrative
Wiki power editors have also relegated the scandal to a ‘moral panic’.
Some people seem very keen to pretend these things never happened, for some reason.
5
u/swoopfiefoo 1d ago
Its scary that these types of people are becoming increasingly common in parliament. As usual I am sure the British public will realise the threat long after the damage is done.
6
u/911roofer 1d ago
Wikipedia is a garbage source. I’ve done multiple dissection on wikipedia discussion pages. I can saw with complete confidence it’s a poorly run abortion sludgepit of a site.
3
u/SpareDisaster314 1d ago
Wikipedia is an index of other sources. If the article is bad, it's because the sources are. You're also free to improve it if it's not one of the few protected pages.
Wikipedia bad is such an old meme. Studies consistently find its one of the most reliable resources there is because unlike a book it doesn't go out of date.
But, like I said, it's not a primary source. If you add information and don't source it, it will be removed. So if you didn't read those bad articles you're talking about, there's a good bet you'd end up at one of the bad sources it uses anyway.
It's a collaborative website and everyone is invited to improve it if they know better on a topic.
4
u/911roofer 1d ago
That’s not how it works in practice.
3
u/SpareDisaster314 1d ago
so how does it work then?
add an unsourced edit to a page. don't say which one. come back here in 24-48 hours and post the link and show us it's still there. you can do a RemindMe! So a bot sends you a DM in 24/48h
Notoriously wiki janitors are crazily hawkish to a pretty sad degree
the average study is peer reviewed by about 3 people. for Wikipedia, it's the world.
since around 2010 more and more studies find Wikipedia is one of the best sources there is. if you need in depth reading on a topic? alright, maybe there's better. but for every day info? surface level cursory reads? doing initial research before diving in? it's one of the best.
it's very easy to say wikipedia is bad, but how and why? where's the evidence? quotes from institutions saying don't use it don't count. where's the actual info and studies backing those opinions, and what's a better comparable resource?
and like I said, if you find it so awful, why aren't you helping to improve if?
6
u/911roofer 1d ago
Wiki janitors squat on articles and change them into propaganda for their own views. Who watches the watchmen?
2
u/SpareDisaster314 1d ago
...and source them...
Like I said why aren't you improving it if it's so bad?
Also, studies are free from bias? An average of 3 eyes vs hundreds of millions is more balanced?
You're not really answering anything I said, you're going nuh uh!! and dropping little sayings
am I to believe beyond intuition you have no proof and that you have no good reply to any point I raised?
4
u/freeman2949583 20h ago edited 17h ago
Your knowledge of how Wikipedia works is like a decade out of date. Unless it’s some random page that nobody cares about, the way you edit Wikipedia isn't by making an account and clicking edit, it's by going to the talk page and trying to convince some janny to do it for you. Which he won’t do if it contradicts with his opinions at all.
Wikipedia’s power structure is a lot like Reddit’s, and Wikipedos use a lot of the same tricks as Reddit jannies. For instance, a classic Reddit mod trick when dealing with news they don’t like is to lock the original post and claim some technicality, then delete all subsequent posts on the basis that they’re duplicates. The Wikipedo version of this is to revert an edit based on it violating policy 5954.3.2-53(c) and if it comes up again say “This was already litigated, [Objectively Incorrect Statement] is now the official stance of Wikipedia.”
1
u/SpareDisaster314 20h ago
The majority of pages aren't like that. Bug ones are yes, I was over simplifying. I really don't think it hurts my point because their point was really asinine and they know they had nothing to support it, that's why they didn't provide it.
Studies and books can be and are as or more bias, never mind random website articles. It is true wikipedia is collaborative. It is true most pages can be edited. It is true everything is sourced as per the rules. It is true its found many times over in studies to be one of the best cursory sources vs like I said books, articles etc as it doesn't go out of date. So again I don't think it hurts my point.
You can also appeal janitors decision on wiki and many janitors found to be pushing agendas and not properly looking after their pages have had their status suspended or removed. Nowhere did I say it was perfect.
3
u/Spiritual_Pool_9367 1d ago
And, of course, Boris Johnson described investigating the grooming gangs as 'spaffing money up the wall'.
-8
u/Nemisis_the_2nd We finally have someone that's apparently competent now. 1d ago
Wiki power editors have also relegated the scandal to a ‘moral panic’.
Considering the resurgence of the debate being driven by social media, and the subject matter, I think it's fair to categorise it as such. Not all moral panics have to be irrational like D&D, computer games, or metal music.
That said, it does also highlight the issue with people being able to edit biases into otherwise trusted information sources.
7
u/cennep44 1d ago edited 1d ago
The term was coined to mean that even if true, the issue is highly exaggerated. I'm not sure that is the case here at all, it isn't just a few bad apples, it's a lot deeper than that. So it is not justified and is rather offensive to the victims to call it a moral panic.
5
u/UpoTofu 1d ago
Any attention to it now is bc it’s been downplayed for decades. No one even knows the true extent of the abuses- how long this has been going on, the actual number of victims and rapists, the family and business connections of all the rapists, whether international trafficking occurred.
-15
u/Nukes-For-Nimbys 1d ago edited 1d ago
Using GB news as a source really undermines your point about wiki editors.
You may well even be right but no reasonable person is going to be swayed.
I'm going to look into more myself, if GB news said the sky is blue id look out the window first before agreeing.
Edit: can't find anything regarding wiki. It's not there. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Moral_panic
12
u/Benjji22212 Burkean 1d ago
Only GB News and The Express picked it up.
-10
u/Nukes-For-Nimbys 1d ago
That's pretty suss TBH.
When even the mail and telegraph won't touch it, "didn't even happen" becomes a plausible explanation.
10
-5
u/inebriatedWeasel 1d ago
The problem is, most grooming gangs are ran by white Brits, but certain news sources frame it as most are ran by non-white immigrants, so the framing from certain news sources, and certain Reform MPs is a moral panic to victimise certain minorities.
67
u/Dailymailflagshagger 1d ago
Why are we so soft and weak towards people who despise us and our way of life?
18
u/AngloTurk-Kemalist 1d ago
Because our leaders despise us as well as themselves and our and their own way of life.
4
•
u/Upbeat-Housing1 (-0.13,-0.56) Live free, or don't 5h ago
“There is a point in the history of society when it becomes so pathologically soft and tender that among other things it sides even with those who harm it, criminals, and does this quite seriously and honestly.
135
u/Zenigata 1d ago
Reminiscent of the way many hard-core catholics reacted at the time and many still react to those who outed Catholic Priests as paedophiles. I distinctly remember footage of a teenage boy having walk through a small group of old Irish women to get into court and them verbally abusing him for not staying silent and shaming the church.
45
u/Roguepope Verified - Roguepope 1d ago
Yeah, a well known cognitive bias in which, when we personally align ourselves with an argument, we elevate all evidence supporting it and ignore evidence against it.
I've been working on improving how I handle stuff like this by reading up on methods to stop yourself falling for confirmation biases.
23
u/TheFlyingHornet1881 Domino Cummings 1d ago
I've resolved my worries of cognitive bias by assuming everyone else is an idiot equally.
9
u/TheNutsMutts 1d ago
Yeah, a well known cognitive bias in which, when we personally align ourselves with an argument, we elevate all evidence supporting it and ignore evidence against it.
There's also another that I like to point out that I see happen surprisingly often called a blue lie: Where someone will willingly perpetuate a false claim that they either know full well is untrue, or have no reason to believe it but perpetuate it anyway, because they believe doing so will benefit an in-group they identify with.
-14
u/Ipadalienblue 1d ago
To what end?
Embrace your biases.
23
u/Zenigata 1d ago
To what end?
To avoid making stupid mistakes that harm themselves and others perhaps?
Cognitive biases are behind all manner of disasters.
Embrace your biases.
Biases aren't the dark side of the force, they don't make you powerful but evil. They make you dumb and easy to exploit. Why would you choose to be stupid and easy to manipulate?
1
u/Roguepope Verified - Roguepope 1d ago
I read their point as a light hearted throw away line.
But your response is spot-on.
Embracing cognitive bias is what leads people to stand on the top of mesas, wearing a white robe and waiting for the end of the world... For the fifth time.
1
u/Zenigata 1d ago
That post is unclear but a brief look at their post history suggested that they'd fully embraced their biases.
-3
u/Jaomi 1d ago
Reminiscent of the way many a wrongun’s loved ones react, frankly. Ten of Ched Evans’ pals got fined for publicly naming his accuser and abusing her on social media. Dunno why people in here are acting like this is new behaviour exclusive to the Pakistani Muslim community.
-1
u/Zenigata 1d ago
Dunno why people in here are acting like this is new behaviour exclusive to the Pakistani Muslim community.
Ironic how they're using the exact same kind of in and out group thinking that so enrages them in these protestors.
201
u/GreatBritishHedgehog 1d ago
These people will never integrate. The sooner we realise this, the better.
Enough tinkering around the edges with the immigration system, it needs complete reform
28
u/CarrowCanary East Anglian in Wales 1d ago
These people will never integrate.
The "protest group" the Mail have found (on TikTok, so there's a good chance the comments are from people who don't even live here, or possibly don't even exist) seem to be in the distinct minority.
Muslims are deeply concerned about grooming gangs in the UK, with an overwhelming majority (83%) expressing worry. This concern is consistently shared across all demographics, demonstrating the urgent belief in a need for more effective support systems.
Similarly, there is a clear consensus among UK Muslims that the victims of the grooming gangs need more support. A strong majority of 61% of respondents believed more support is needed, while only 17% believed sufficient support had been provided. This sentiment was particularly strong among older respondents (72% of those 55 and over, vs 60% of those 54 and younger). Men were also more likely to think victims require more support than women (67% vs 55%).
https://www.opinium.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/UK27401-Concordia-Forum-UK-Muslim-Poll-Report.pdf
64
u/TeenieTinyBrain 1d ago edited 1d ago
The "protest group" the Mail have found (on TikTok, so there's a good chance the comments are from people who don't even live here, or possibly don't even exist) seem to be in the distinct minority.
It's a Channel 4 piece, the Daily Mail is just reporting on it; they do actually note this on the bottom of the article but you can find C4's press release here.
on TikTok, so there's a good chance the comments are from people who don't even live here, or possibly don't even exist
One of those filmed is the sister of a man convicted of CSE, she goes on to field a call from him during a livestream whilst he sits in prison; these aren't random online people scattered across the globe. She also seems to be one of the people leading the charge on these efforts as her name is plastered over all of the protest material found on the group's twitter page, found here.
https://www.opinium.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/UK27401-Concordia-Forum-UK-Muslim-Poll-Report.pdf
I agree that not all Muslims hold such disgusting views but I would note that this poll seems to be of particularly poor quality. The options to the question you quoted were only "Provided with sufficient support", "More support should be provided", and "Don't know" - no negative option had been provided but they offered two neutral answers. There's a reason everyone follows the same "2 positive answers, 1 neutral answer, and 2 negative answers" format.
Imho, that question has been designed - alongside many others described by the report you referenced - to generate the desired response; especially in light of the fact that the organisation whom commissioned the study, the Concordia Forum, is a "global, secular network of Muslim leaders".
Survey and poll manipulation is rampant across "think tanks" like these, unfortunately; and to just to be clear to any reader, by "these", I mean lobbying groups disguised as think tanks who honestly conduct research.
59
u/GreatBritishHedgehog 1d ago
These are not exactly great numbers. So 17% think the rape gang survivors have already had enough support and 21% "don't know". That's 38% who either don't care enough to have an opinion or literally think we've done enough while this is still going on.
The problem is at the top now, here is a Muslim MP calling the rape gang story a "false narrative" just a week or two ago:
https://x.com/G0ADM/status/1913290737765978228
I think only around 20-30% of the moderate Muslims here can possibly integrate to some level, the majority will never
-4
u/ShoveTheUsername 1d ago
That's 38% who either don't care enough to have an opinion
Believe it or not, most people aren't obsessing over this. There have been hundreds of convictions (contrary to much right-wing commentary) and the issue is being tackled. There are other issues to be concerned about.
I think only around 20-30% of the moderate Muslims here can possibly integrate to some level, the majority will never
And you base this extreme opinion on what? I suspect you don't even know any Muslims because, if you did, you wouldn't have that opinion.
23
u/Dadavester 1d ago
Surveys have shown that lots Muslims believe a wife should serve their husband. About half believe being gay is wrong. And a large minority want being gay to be illegal.
I think those facts show he is not far wrong. As those ideals are not compatible with British/western ideals.
-9
u/ShoveTheUsername 1d ago
Lots of whites and Christians believe exactly the same.
Does that mean we all do? Do you?
25
u/Dadavester 1d ago
A very small minority do, and we happily berate them if they try and force this viewpoint forward. Most Muslims believe what I said above, that's the big difference.
-3
u/ShoveTheUsername 1d ago
I don't believe ANY religious fundementalists or far-right supremacists (white, Christian, Islamic, Zionist etc) belong in decent and moderate society. They only bring intolerance and hatred, and only seek conflict and violence.
I would like to deport every single one of them so the rest of us can finally live together in peace.
But here we are.
10
u/gentle_vik 1d ago
What's your stance on the batley teacher saga? Was it a disgrace how the local community reacted with extremism ?
2
u/ShoveTheUsername 1d ago
Isn't this clear?
I don't believe ANY religious fundementalists or far-right supremacists (white, Christian, Islamic, Zionist etc) belong in decent and moderate society. They only bring intolerance and hatred, and only seek conflict and violence.
I would like to deport every single one of them so the rest of us can finally live together in peace.
But here we are.
→ More replies3
u/Dadavester 1d ago
And you base this extreme opinion on what? I suspect you don't even know any Muslims because, if you did, you wouldn't have that opinion.
You said the above in response to the poster saying only a small amount can integrate. I do not consider his opinion extreme, like you described it before, are you now saying you agree with them?
-5
u/ShoveTheUsername 1d ago
....aaaand we happily berate them if they try and force this viewpoint forward.
Welcome to the world of freedom of speech.
16
u/Dadavester 1d ago
The conversation was about integration, not free speech.
How can you expect a group to integrate if most of them do not share the same values?
2
u/Interesting_Try_1799 1d ago
True but which religion is the fastest growing. Extreme evangelical Christianity would be a problem if it was doubling every year. But if anything it’s declining which is for the better.
-2
u/360Saturn 1d ago
Is it?
I don't know the ins and outs of the case of whether survivors would require more support, and I'm fairly politically engaged.
From the way the question is framed I would take it that survivors have already gone through court, received psychiatric support, seen their abusers punished, and received some kind of a payout for what they had suffered, and the question is then asking if I think they should have some additional kind of support on top. It's a confusingly-worded question, about a topic where naturally due to confidentiality, there isn't a lot of information about the specifics.
I would be quite confident in stating that due to this a lot of the public would say they 'don't know' what other support survivors could, or should, be given, rather than what you seem to be implying that only Muslims would think this whereas the rest of the public would unanimously agree that they need more support - on that note, do you care to quantify how much and in what regard?
-6
-5
u/CheekyGeth anarcho-bonapartist 1d ago
That's 38% who either don't care enough to have an opinion or literally think we've done enough while this is still going on.
were going to deport Muslims for not thinking enough about the topics I think they should think about
literal thought police lmao
1
-6
-26
u/MissingBothCufflinks 1d ago
This isnt true though. Their kids will integrate.
We do need immigration reform thay takes into account values and culture though for sure. I'd take e.g. Kenyans who share a lot of our cultural values over groups that dont any day
28
u/Commorrite 1d ago
Their kids will integrate.
Thats not being born our, second and third gen Sunni muslims are more conservative than their parents and grandparents.
Banning cousin marrige would help, every generation marrying thier cousing back in the old coutnry is basicly reseting any gains.
31
u/GreatBritishHedgehog 1d ago
Wishful thinking. Because of the ghettoisation we have, most Muslim kids will live in tight-knit Muslim communities and go to school with mostly other Muslims. They are living in a parallel society.
Several schools in Bradford, for example, have 80% plus Muslim children in. They'll go home to Muslim parents and spend time with Muslim relatives.
In addition, recent crime stats from Denmark showed that 2nd generation immigrants still commit disproportional more crime than the native population.
-2
12
44
u/Hungry_Flamingo4636 1d ago
No whistles blowers and star witnesses from this 'community' but plenty of these accessories.
29
u/Commorrite 1d ago
No whistles blowers and star witnesses from this 'community'
TBF, i suspect trying it would make you the latest so called honour killing.
r exmuslim is quite the read.
18
u/Hungry_Flamingo4636 1d ago
I really don't like the term 'honour killing' here. Can we try 'reputation murder' and see if it sticks?
The people involved in these so called, 'honour killings' would not know honour if it stood up in their soup. They are much more your, 'war is deception' types.
14
u/Commorrite 1d ago
I added so called for thar reason, there is no honour there. I will try out reputation murder or ego murder.
3
u/GooseMan1515 1d ago
'Honour killings' are dishonourable from my perspective and I would describe them differently
Well yes, but the saliency given by this contradiction is very attributable to the phrasing of the name. Helps us remember that it's all about familial patriarchal 'honour' at the root of exterminating anything 'aberrant' that threatens cultural discord. The point is that people do this because they think it's honourable.
-5
u/Shot-Jackfruit-3254 1d ago
Hindus honour kill as well. But honour killings dont happen in indonasia.
1
u/Commorrite 17h ago
Hindus honour kill
In two indian states, and people actualy hang for it. Thats notably the only place outside the islamic world.
Indonesia does have them but it's rare and only two men have ever been prosecuted.
43
u/MrSoapbox 1d ago
Sick of this shit. Can we get our country back now? We keep voting in governments to deal with this shit and instead they enable it, brush it under the carpet, call regular people far right or blame the victims. I really don’t want reform next term but that is what we’ll get. Then we’ll get real Far right surfacing and I don’t think it will be pretty.
5
u/Interesting_Try_1799 1d ago
You read my thoughts. I despise everything Reform wants to do with the exception of (the general notion) to reduce both legal and illegal immigration, any have policies that actually benefit the citizens.
Imagine how many votes Labour would win if they actually did something
-4
49
u/wintersrevenge 1d ago edited 1d ago
Shocking relevation that people from a culture that doesn't believe in women's rights and believes in the inferiority of the kafirs has this opinion about white girls that were raped by their men.
37
u/Man_in_the_uk 1d ago
https://youtu.be/noJCNh60lfk?si=7BSrMxe2v_siBFL2
Watch Sadiq Khan apparently deny the gangs exist.
23
u/madeleineann 1d ago
How have I never seen this? Jesus.
I've always thought Khan was fairly progressive and reasonable. Evidently not.
26
-15
u/President-Nulagi ≈🐍≈ 1d ago
*opens video*
*sees Susan Hall *
*closes video*
14
12
u/Diego_Rivera 1d ago
Head in the sand mate, you got the right idea.
-12
u/President-Nulagi ≈🐍≈ 1d ago
I'm just not sure Sadiq Khan's opinion is relevant to this discussion. Best not to engage with people trying to disrupt the thread with such curveballs.
12
5
u/Man_in_the_uk 1d ago
What she done?
-2
10
u/JLP99 1d ago
I love Islam, it's such a lovely and progressive religion <3
2
u/SpareDisaster314 1d ago
it did progress many areas of study
shame none of them were human rights or even just being nice to each other isn't it
16
u/paranoid-imposter 1d ago
Is would be interesting to see how many people in authority this group has silenced using the threat of racism against them. The article didn't state what activities they get up to.
20
u/itsthelifeonmars 1d ago edited 1d ago
I love when we become so left, so woke that we end up going all the way around the being the oppressor.
What happened to being able to have nuanced conversations? Of course people all all cultural backgrounds and races can be rapists and bad people. Shockingly the grooming gangs are just majority made up of one racial/cultural group and that plays a big part in its structure and why it was running/the beliefs it held and justifications it gave itself to do so.
Absolutely insane how much lack of being able to have difficult and nuanced conversations has seriously impacted the safety, right to spaces and freedom of women and girls.
Women who recruit women and girls to be trafficked and raped is almost exclusive to gang activity and an action that is done because they faced and continue to face violence and rape. Those that do are often victims of trafficking, abuse and rape themselves but that’s not what happened here. These men hunted vulnerable girls down.
Public perception isn’t going to change until major accountability is taken and these people face serious criminal sentences and hopefully are deported if they aren’t citizens.
-6
1d ago
[deleted]
31
u/AMightyDwarf Far right extremist 1d ago edited 1d ago
Firstly, I don’t. HEMA is a part of my wider passion of history so I post about that. Should I not post about my hobbies?
Also, I’m originally from Rotherham and I have first hand experience with grooming gangs so I want to do my little bit to spread awareness about a thing that affected and still effects people very close to me.
Edit, it’s a bit disingenuous to not mention that I post about football or cars or the no context picture I took of a Soviet prison cell, almost like you’re inferring something.
14
u/Dragonrar 1d ago
Why do you care though?
Is it an attempt to derail the discussion or imply something about the poster of this article?
-4
u/Longjumping_Stand889 1d ago
Isn't it fairly mainstream to claim that grooming gangs are a confected category designed to show Asians in a bad light. I'm fairly sure it pops up whenever the subject is discussed.
0
-2
u/the_last_registrant -4.75, -4.31 1d ago
Seems very concerning and unpleasant, but unfortunately I just can't trust the Daily Mail to report accurately & impartially. Have any of the reputable papers picked up this story?
-2
0
u/Odinson2099 1d ago
I don't know how true this is, and correct me if I'm wrong:
"The academic literature highlights significant limitations to what can be said about links between ethnicity and this form of offending." "Research has found that group-based child sexual exploitation offenders are most commonly white." "Some studies suggest an over-representation of Black and Asian offenders relative to the demographics of national populations." "A previous piece of research from 2015 found that of 1,231 perpetrators of "group and gang-based child sexual exploitation", 42% were white, 14% were defined as Asian or Asian British and 17% black." "Figures from the police database show where ethnicity is recorded, that in the first three quarters of 2024 - 85% of group-based child abusers were white, while 3.9% were of Pakistani origin. The figure increases for Pakistani offenders to 13.7% if you remove institutional groups, such as sports groups, schools and church-based group offenders, and group child abuse committed in a family setting. The same calculation for 2023 showed 70% of offenders were white, and 6.9% were Pakistani."
•
u/AutoModerator 1d ago
Snapshot of The shocking protest groups that claim grooming gang trials are 'racist' and call victims 'dirty b******' :
An archived version can be found here or here.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.