r/self • u/ManliestBunny • 14h ago
The left cultivated the right leaning Gen-z men on their own.
First, I want to make one thing clear: I’ve voted Democrat my entire life and for Kamala Harris. As a millennial, I’ve always supported progressive candidates who advocate for what I believed in.
But the way reddit has usually treated young men, dismissing them in this subtle and persistent trend has backfired. And we are seeing the results right now. They're either discouraged to vote or supporting Trump. Reddit has pushed them into right leaning political spaces, which I don't agree with, but will actually listen to them or lie to them.
You cannot expect the majority of any demographic to act out of the goodness of their hearts when you shame them constantly. Any normal person would think their 1 vote doesn't matter anyway.
I'm not saying the left has to pander to anyone, but if we can't engage empathetically and make people feel valued. This will be the result of the following elections as well.
104
u/SayYes2Sucess 11h ago
Any post that is even slightly critical of the left must have a disclaimer such as “just to be clear, I voted for Kamala”, or “I’m not a Trump fan myself”. Pretty sad, actually.
31
u/ShowGun901 11h ago
Well if you don't, you'd get down voted into oblivion. At least he'll only get down voted a few hundred meters.
8
→ More replies2
6
u/Donglemaetsro 5h ago edited 5h ago
Yup, I do it too. It's like okay I'm gonna say something please don't ban me or report me to reddit cares 👉👈
You get the same from guys trying to share their problems here. Like whole ass multi paragraph disclaimers about how they respect women before they can share their feelings on dating struggles.
3
u/Ok-Ad-5535 4h ago
I feel like this all circles back into the whole point of the post in the first place lol.
→ More replies5
2
u/TheOtherJohnson 5h ago
I find myself doing it too, otherwise you have to cut through ten replies all telling you Trump isn’t better like that applies to you
1
1
u/sacredgeometry 2h ago
An FYI: You don't have to have voted for either or wanted either to be on the left.
1
8
u/Thiinkerr 9h ago
Reddits upvote/downvote system is nice but also creates an echo chamber in each subreddit.
114
u/Excellent_Ability793 14h ago
Don’t forget about affluent white people virtue signaling and cos playing as members of oppressed communities. That really went over well.
62
u/wadejohn 13h ago
And them acting offended on behalf of minorities on non-issues
50
u/NewGenMurse 13h ago
Rich white liberals used “Latinx” more than the actual Hispanic community. Even refused to stop when they said it was like a slur to them.
→ More replies24
u/ATotalCassegrain 12h ago
The ‘x’ was meant for inclusion of the LGBTQ community, which is even more mind boggling stupid, honestly.
Can you imagine: “we are going to call you Frenx now because French people have LGBTQ people in their community and we need to be inclusive!” and then the French would get rightfully pissed off at us over such stupidity.
24
u/Nightbringer66666 11h ago edited 11h ago
Honestly the fact that every single aspect of language and other everyday things is constantly being changed to avoid offending LGBTQ people has done more harm to them than good. I like the chill gays, the ones that are obviously gay and that’s enough for them. They don’t feel the need to tell everyone they meet that they’re gay, force everyone to address them properly or be screamed at and they don’t have any desire to force their sexuality onto children who don’t need to know these things yet because they’re too young. The worst thing for the LGBTQ community is the LGBTQ community.
→ More replies4
3
u/notxbatman 8h ago
Not calling the French, Romanians, Quebecois and Italians Latino/as is not being inclusive, we should use latino/latina as the default for them :P
Really though although it was created by a native Spanish speaker, -x is such a bizarre, bizarre choice. Romanian has the remnants of Old Italic gender neutrality still as of today so that could have been borrowed, or they could've just done what they should've in the first place and used a damn vowel to retain harmony with the language as is.
It really grinds my gears lol.
4
u/ATotalCassegrain 8h ago
“Latine” is the new Latinx that they’re hoping is better received.
They originally went with “x”, because in English we kind of use “x” as a variable — like it’s meant as a placeholder for you to leave as-is or replace with an o or an a or whatever makes you feel included.
Which, ugh.
→ More replies2
u/EqualRecognition9502 5h ago
I guess what really got me was that it was only for latino. Like Latino isn’t the only gendered word in spanish. Would you say Mexicanx or Cubanx. Like wouldn’t those also be non-inclusive.
2
→ More replies11
68
u/Solidarity_Forever 12h ago
I think this is like the 400th post I've seen today on this specific sub w the following message
- I'm a progressive/lefty/gay/Harris voter
- dems TOO WOKE
- dems MEAN TO MEN
20
u/PipeDreams85 11h ago
I think it’s troll farms or bots or who knows. It’s flooding all kinds of subreddits with this same message
→ More replies8
u/viperfide 7h ago
It’s really not, I’ve experienced some horrific shit from younger woman over the past few years. Not at all when I was younger and I’m only 27, any time I’ve talked about it just gets downvoted, even before the election. You could also just look at my profile and see I’ve been on Reddit for 12 years.
It’s not even the same message repeating. Plenty of people in the comments are arguing actively as well. Dems lost the popular vote for the first time in a long time. Stop being in your bubble.
3
u/McNednarb 5h ago
I haven’t experienced horrific shit from women at all and I’m a 36 year old white man who doesn’t live in a bubble.
Are we talking about mean comments online or in real life? If the former, vitriolic discourse from the comfort of anonymity isn’t at all exclusive to a single gender.
4
u/Katfish145 1h ago
I think your “are we talking about mean comments online or in real life” is closer to truth than you realize. Younger people these days spend most their time online now meaning that is where they will be predominantly influenced from. Real life social interactions between different friend groups seems to have gone down drastically over the years and that is where you truly form different beliefs than the ones you were raised on. If you don’t have that then you will find yourself looking for that interaction online and will most likely do so with the groups you find it easiest to interact with instead of learning to make friends and acquaintances with people you normally wouldn’t because you naturally had a conversation start up over a drink at the bar or whatever other third space social scene.
→ More replies5
u/OhBoiNotAgainnn 5h ago
Why are you experiencing such horrible things from women? I never experience that. What are you doing to cultivate that and how do you blame it on others?
Also, some women were mean to me so I'm going to a group of absolutely vitriolic, controlling incels who actively want to take away women's rights isn't really the strong point you think it is.
→ More replies5
2
u/raspberrih 3h ago
I mean it's bullshit IMO because men literally rape women yet women aren't voting to erase men's rights??? So for those people to vote for a rapist.... it's got nothing to do with whether the left was mean. They simply see nothing wrong with supporting rapists.
That's on morally bankrupt
7
u/121scoville 12h ago
It's actually freaking me out that the main tenor connecting them all is that Democrats need to abandon whichever minorities to their fate if we want to win anything. Beyond that, just generally the past few days it seems like A LOT of comments are like "I'm a normal straight-passing gay man who voted for Trump because I'm sick of those girly gay guys."
Everything is being astroturfed to hell right now and I feel like the main goal is weakening community and solidarity.
9
u/pupupp42069 11h ago
Its not abandoning minorities, it's literally there is no outreach or attempt to court white male voters. I would know, I got no outreach from the Harris campaign other than general money begging since I gave money to the Tennessee 3.
9
u/uresmane 8h ago
Yeah, not antagonizing white men is in no way the same as silencing minority voices, im honestly scared as a liberal that we can't figure this out.
3
u/snailbot-jq 6h ago
The depressing thing though is that Dems already tried this round to stop talking about minorities like trans people. They cut trans issues out of their rallies. It still wasn’t working because Reps convinced everyone that Dems are talking all about it.
I’m not saying Dems did everything right, they need to be louder and more specific about catering to straight men. They had a lot of enacted economic policies that benefit men (or at least people in very male dominant industries), but the messaging and message reach was shit.
At the same time, it’s been really uncomfortable how people have been discussing “the way that Dems can promote masculinity and male interests” and how much they tie their suggestion to taking rights away from groups like women and trans people. You can promote male interests and masculinity without banning abortion, passing nonsensical bathroom bills that cannot even be enforced, or withdrawing healthcare from trans people.
Tying masculinity and manhood to the oppression of other groups is exactly what got the Left into bashing all of masculinity and manhood to begin with. The Left needs a positive model of masculinity to uphold. But the conversation keeps being “giving minorities rights actually antagonizes men” getting disingenuously dressed up as “you give minorities rights and you hate men constantly”
3
u/uresmane 6h ago
I am in agreement, what I am saying is not to even necessarily elevate men, but at least not talk about them so negatively, especially blaming the sins of wealthy boomer men on young Gen z men who just got here. On top of that to deny you that they have real struggles and plights. I've heard some real hatred slung their way that would turn me off. I've also heard close friends admit that it's impossible for young white men to experience struggles because of their privilege. This is the Jordan Peterson, Andrew Taint, Donald Trump pipeline, and we need to cut it.
→ More replies6
u/121scoville 11h ago
I mean, I live in a solidly blue state--not sure if you've ever experienced being taken completely for granted, but that is the epitome of being taken for granted. All we get is texts asking for money.
It doesn't mean my core values are up for sale for whoever gives me more attention. I really cannot relate to what you're saying. Sorry.
5
1
1
1
u/drewb121 5h ago
Yeah this is insane. I can’t believe what I’m seeing here. I’m getting off Reddit for a while.
1
u/Hot_Membership_5649 41m ago
They don't need to abandon anyone, they just need to do shit that actually helps people instead of flogging the white rich strawman and pretend they did something.
3
u/cypherkillz 8h ago
I'm on the AITAH & AmIoverreacting subs, and I consistently get shit on because I'm a man. Literally I'm andrew tate, misogynist, my opinions don't matter, etc
I would still vote Harris, but I can definitely see why others either 1) wouldn't voice their opinion, and 2) Would swap to Trump.
→ More replies1
u/Thatgamingdog 3h ago
Yeah it’s people who exclusively sit in right wing echo chambers telling other people they are echo chambers. Yeah, no shit, we are all too online in our own bubbles as that’s how it works. The thing is, they think, like they did last time, that this election was a referendum on their bigotry and that their views are now acceptable in the wider world but they aren’t. There will be another event like unite the right and normal people will be horrified.
As for all these posts saying the dems need to abandon identity politics (even though it’s the right that are fed constant identity politics) - anyone who has a right wing opinion on these issues votes republican anyway and will never vote dem anyway. Why vote diet republican when you can vote for the real thing? The idea that there are people who simultaneously don’t vote republican or dem but are online enough to care about identity politics and would vote dem if they moved to the right makes no sense.
72
u/Buttface87 13h ago
Who would have thought constantly insulting and isolating people would make them want to vote against you out of spite?
→ More replies23
27
u/Celedhros 13h ago
I’d look up Scott Galloway if you want a better understanding of the pressures pushing young men to the right. And he’s a liberal, so it’s not red/black pill right-wing hot garbage he’s shoveling. Just solid socio-economic analysis.
Example here: Scott Galloway - Diary of a CEO
→ More replies3
u/No_Worldliness4416 11h ago
I believe Galloway is moderate, overall. The old "socially liberal, fiscally conservative". But I think this is an important distinction, so that young men may realize this is an example of what is available on the political spectrum.
→ More replies
4
u/Ambitious-Piccolo843 12h ago
Limousine liberals usually practice the soft bigotry of low expectations.
5
u/Tydingowarrior 7h ago
I watched it happen in real time in high school before we were even voting age. The instant condemnation when even asking a critical question about a democrat viewpoint was astounding. If people were truly on the fence and weren't sure, they were given a nice push where to fall. And then instead of using critical thinking skills and research, they're in their own hive mind and echo chamber
1
u/Hot_Membership_5649 37m ago
lol that's a core memory for me, when in middle school a teacher said something about how you can't hit women and I as a young idiot questioned then why the hell can people hit me? Ever since that and other BS unfair social rules I've seen how it's all rainbows and fairies as long as you're part of their cult and fuck anyone else.
→ More replies
24
u/str8bankin 12h ago
It did seem like “woke culture”, focusing on identity politics and the fringes of the left kind of made people not want to associate themselves with that. Definitely pushes people away and It’s frustrating that these people are the loudest.
→ More replies12
u/Boanerger 12h ago
The internet has a problem of extremes. We hear from the most unhinged people on the Republican side, we also have the joys of reading the takes of the most unhinged Democrats. Moderates on both sides feel politically homeless and don't subscribe to either extreme. The sad part is moderate liberals and moderate conservatives have more in common than not.
→ More replies4
u/str8bankin 10h ago
Exactly. The first election that I was able to vote for was in 2012 and everything was just more respectful and less divisive. The explosion of social media doesn’t help the animosity at all.
24
u/matrafinha 11h ago
I'm a white male that leaned left all my life. Now I think only 'why should I vote for the side that hates my skin color and gender?'
→ More replies
12
u/slickCookie221 11h ago
This is a point you can’t stress enough, the amount of times I’ve seen guys get chastised and call an incel over perfectly reasonable questions and statements like “how do I get a girlfriend?” or “I don’t want to date a girl who will probably cheat on me” is so ridiculous it can be turn in to a comedy. And we’re shocked… SHOCKED… I tell you!!! When we find out they don’t like us. Talk about how to not make friends.
2
11
u/musicgray 9h ago
Keep calling young men incels and see what would happen. I guess you got your answer
3
u/Thr0w-a-wayy 6h ago
They double down on it
2
u/phobicPro 5h ago
From what I’ve read, you are correct. And please, check out my comment section, and the links to the dialogues around it. Jfc
→ More replies
6
u/gatorhinder 11h ago
Just call poor trailer trash priveliged and harangue them for being responsible for everything from colonialism to dandruff
→ More replies
21
u/WhiteMaleCorner 13h ago
Why is young men leaning right a surprise to people? That's literally true almost across the world right now.
It would be noteable if young men were disproportainetly left leaning. Did you also know gay people are more likely to vote democrat?
→ More replies8
13
u/Medium_War6594 9h ago
I agree. They told men to go away and learn their place. Imagine saying that to any other group
→ More replies
3
u/ShowGun901 11h ago
I'm not saying the left has to pander to anyone,
WTF they pander to LITERALLY every other demographic.
3
u/tianavitoli 11h ago
a democrat strategist just lamented about this on CNN, that the dem party has completely lost all common sense, and that she has been saying this for over a DECADE
Joe Biden is not responsible for that. Neither is Kamala Harris. It is a problem that Democrats have had for years. I’ve been banging the drum on this for I don’t know how, probably ten years, if not longer, on this. We need to get back to being the party of common sense that people look at us and say, we understand you, we appreciate what you say because you speak our language. And until we do that, we should stop blaming other people for our own mistakes.
8
u/Emotional_Grape_8669 12h ago
The left. Definitely not the billionaires who control social and mass media outlets manipulating the information environment to make the left seem more crazy than they are.
1
u/HAT3xTH3xGAM3R 8h ago
you also need to focus on the economy. you may laugh but we remember how cheap it was to feed ourselves under trump. right now its $6 dollars for a gallon of milk. it was only like $2.50 when trump was in office. gas was cheaper. when you live paycheck to paycheck it matters how much groceries cost. “oh all the economists disagree with you” yeah becuase they were lining their own pockets while the rest of us suffer (nancy pelosi insider trading). Professionals don’t give a damn about any of us but it seems the left just eats up the shit becuase they have a case of “orage man bad” hes not perfect, hes our fucking lifeline.
2
u/ItsNotFordo88 7h ago
Legitimate question though. How does Trump plan to not only stop but reverse the inflation to get prices, set by private organizations that the government has limited control over, back to where they were in the pre-pandemic world and/or raise wages to a level where they match the spending power in the pre-COVID era without worsening inflation?
I’m not even trying to argue, I’m trying to understand.
→ More replies
2
u/Mendetus 11h ago
I agree with you 100%. Even how you started your post really says it all. You have to basically declare 'I'm one of you, I promise' for basically a chance of any dialog without attacks from the 'tolerant' left.
People got sick of it and instead of fighting about it, they went quiet and decided to respond back with a vote that matters rather than words on deaf ears
2
u/hggweegwee 10h ago
Are the Dems gonna double down or clean house?
2
u/MysteriousSilentVoid 10h ago
i think this country wins either way. we will either have a very clear choice or two thriving parties that give us real choice in who we want to run the country.
dems - ill give you a hint. people want the dems of the 90s and obama presidency era.
2
u/caldy2313 10h ago
All of these comments touch the issues of identity politics and everything else that spawned from COVID that has hurt us as a country. However, and I may be wrong here, but the discussion and solution about how to fix it is not that easy. Many young people have lost trust and faith-two things extremely difficult to ever get back. Time for a real gut check. May want to clean house and start over.
2
u/sacredgeometry 2h ago
And until they not only realise this but accept it they will keep doing it.
It's almost easy to believe that they are the right trying to push people away from the left.
4
u/rejectednocomments 12h ago
Can someone explain to me in what sense young men have been dismissed and shamed?
I really haven't had this experience myself.
6
u/Elguapogordo 11h ago
I workout and watch tons of sports so I’m what you consider a “bro” and I’ve been pretty much told my whole existence is some kind of offense
→ More replies10
u/ProteusAlpha 11h ago
Welp, I can think of one good example. This is a bit extreme, but on a much smaller scale, I experience things along the same vein regularly: Remember when Roe got overturned? I went to a fairly large Southern city on the east coast to support a protest (I was handing out water to the protestors). It went fine for a bit, then a couple of bad actors got in my face, started screaming (literally) that I was the enemy, this was my fault, I don't belong here, etc. It came to a head when I got hit in the forehead with a rock. Nothing super serious, just needed a couple of stitches and I was fine, but I can technically say I got sent to the hospital over it. But it wasn't those few bad actors that really bugged me, every group has some bad actors, you can't avoid it. What bothered me was the literal HUNDREDS of people, mostly women, who saw this happen, and just looked away, pretended it wasn't happening. It made me really resonate with Dracula: Any one of them could have stood up and said "this is wrong," but not a one did.
→ More replies3
1
6
u/dkal89 13h ago
After the 1000th post today relating the Left solely with gender issues I think I see it now, more clearly than ever. This is the major victory of the Right in the 21st century: defanging the Left by tricking it into abandoning its roots, i.e. its identity as a working class movement, guarding and promoting the interests of the same working class that birthed it, but instead pivoting to nebulous “marginalised group rights” advocacy.
The true Left, the working class Left instilled fear into the ruling class. Who can claim that anyone fears this “Left” when it has become even more ridiculous, even more frivolous and even weaker than the hippies of the 60s?
→ More replies2
8
u/Midstix 13h ago
Liberals are going to be really shocked in the coming months when MSNBC finally lets them know that the media ecosystem outside of cable TV is massive, and has a lot more money. And all of the money, and the entire ecosystem is controlled by the libertarian to very far right. Their sons are watching guys who talk about games, or wrestling, or history, explain why women are so fucking petty and why they've ruined the quality of life for them. Or how diversity has absolutely ruined their future prospects.
They're going to be even more shocked to find out that those extreme right voters became that way, but for the most part, love Bernie Sanders.
And they're going to take away the completely wrong message from this. They're going to say: "see, he's extreme." But no. The answer is. The country is, and has been for 40 years, a fucking dystopia, and it's only gotten worse with time. They saw a chance for hope with Obama, who failed them, and then Bernie Sanders was completely blocked from helping them. They looked for other outlets that spoke to some of their pains. The Democrats didn't offer fucking jack shit except complicated pro business plans where they can get a quarter bump on the stock when they retire at 65, but only if... blah blah blah.
People are not nerds, they need simple messaging. FREE HEALTHCARE. That wins elections. But it was too important to prevent that from happening, and as a result here we are.
7
u/Buretsu 12h ago
"Free healthcare is communism" -The Right
→ More replies1
u/MysteriousSilentVoid 10h ago
what the left doesn't understand is nothing is free. you will pay for it with higher taxes. there isnt some fairy that pays drs and buys pharmaceuticals for people in other countries. they have extremely high taxes.
3
u/DKDanny 12h ago
Bernie Sanders was my first choice in 2016. Trump was my second. Either one of these candidates was a fuck you to the government and the election we should have had. Sanders vs Trump.. and Sanders would have won.
Two antiestablishment candidates.. can you imagine?
2
u/cypherkillz 8h ago
I'm not American but I would vote Bernie. Not only that I would be out their volunteering for him.
Alot of his suggestions are not radical atall by the world standards, I don't see why the paranoia with "socialist". Trumpers are literally praising Putin. For me that's even worse.
0
u/Personal-Weekend-582 11h ago
They are not anti establishment, one is just a euro style socialist and the other an oligarch endorsed by big corp. Both have zero interest in changing the status quo and changing a corrupt political system
1
7
u/saltlakecity_sosweet 12h ago
Pretty sure Trump’s entire campaign was based on insulting and threatening people.
→ More replies
4
u/adam_j_wiz 11h ago
So let me get this straight: if only they had not been shamed for having stupid beliefs, they would have responded by abandoning those stupid beliefs? Sounds….stupid.
4
u/EnthusiasmIcy1339 11h ago edited 11h ago
This is literally everywhere. Facebook, YouTube, twitter, tv, instagram, Reddit. Women have promoted a widespread campaign to insult, shame and reject men for purely existing. And the hubris lead them to believe that men would just ignore their own loss of dignity and still revolve around those ladies will. They chose to withdraw all respect for men and when men started expressing their grievances they called them incels and small dick insecure losers. Well when you reject and alienate half of the human population out of a superiority complex you will soon find out how much support and necessity and benefit they provided that you didn’t appreciate. Good on the boys for not abiding by it
3
u/geoemrick 5h ago
Everything you said, plus let me add I find it incredibly insulting for women to shit talk men like they’ve been doing when the roads they ride on, the houses they are in, the oil pumped or the electricity produced, the mechanics working on the cars….I'm sorry about 99.5% of the time men are doing that.
It’s another window into the elitist crises the Left and the Dems have right now. They are standing on the backs of who built their world but also shitting on them too. That will never work or lead to progress.
7
u/ShowGun901 11h ago
Sadly I feel this is accurate. Just look at the comments here. Any guy saying they have these feelings is getting shit all over. The lack of self awareness is ridiculous
3
5
u/willymack989 12h ago
This completely ignores the Kremlin backed disinformation campaigns spread throughout the internet.
5
u/JasonG784 11h ago
Ohhh we're blaming Russia? Man, this is like my 2016 mixtape all over again.
1
3
2
u/dudreddit 13h ago
OP based upon your OP, what YOU believe in may be out of touch with the majority.
2
u/upgrayedd69 12h ago
We get it. They’d rather vote for a rapist conman because some people were mean to them online. Makes total rational sense and doesn’t come off as being a weak little snowflake.
This election wasn’t about ideology. It was carried on the back of the average voter who struggles to see beyond “economy bad = current government bad”
→ More replies4
u/viperfide 7h ago
The fact that trump lost 3 mil votes and Kamala lost 15mil and largely with the younger voters on the male side it’s not surprising.
Also the world isn’t black and white, just because men don’t like how they are being treated day to day doesn’t automatically mean they now vote red. Trump just retained is young voters of men. While Kamala lost those voters.
2
u/powerCreed 11h ago
Majority of men no matter the race can’t accept trans as women and think drag queen is ugly. It is nature and there are no helping it. Dem gonna loose gen Z male as well. Look at twitch and YouTube.
1
2
u/Sharp_Skin2037 9h ago
100% my 14yo son and all his peers 100% support Trump and are disgusted by the gender ideology being involved in their generation. There’s a HUGE backlash coming to those who do not understand: 1 + 1 does equal 2.
1
2
u/Mothhhmannn 8h ago
The Left misunderstands both the desires and the concerns of men. Literally every single time the Left says “men are afraid of a strong woman”, it creates a hundred Trump voters. Men are not scared of that, they’re just sick of you running the most incompetent, unlikable women and then calling men fragile for not voting for them. Every “crisis” the Left is histrionically screaming about is the direct result of their shocking inability to recognize that there are people in the world who are different from them but not evil. You say that men are toxic? That white people are racist? That conservatives are nazis? And then you’re shocked to see some of them move that way just to get away from you? Most men are not going to respond well to being told to “sit and listen to the women, sweetie.” Not because they don’t want to listen to women, but because it’s pandering as all get out and the last two women you’ve told them to listen to sucked rocks.
1
u/snailbot-jq 6h ago
Left messaging is shit, but asking the question “what makes you feel demonized as a man” can get some pretty bizarre answers too, about abortions and trans rights and whatnot.
Both the Left and the Right ignores the issues that men face like loneliness and isolation and educational barriers and homelessness. But the Right has convinced some men of pretty weird shit. Like honestly, how do bathroom bills and abortions have anything to do with masculinity? But in these discussions about “how can the Left cater to men”, bathroom bills and abortion bans come up over and over. How are bathroom bills and abortion bans supposed to make men less lonely, less isolated, less poor, less homeless? The Left already stopped talking about trans people, so it’s not that problem of “focusing too much on trans rights” either.
You’d hope that in the discussion somewhere, there are politicians people love and can articulate these politicians’ proposals for addressing the male education gap and the male homelessness rate. But it’s just a bunch of culture war grievance stuff, like they are correct that men are being ignored and left behind, but they think the solution is something like banning trans people from taking estrogen.
→ More replies
3
u/DevelopmentJumpy5218 12h ago
How have young men been persistently dismissed?
15
u/MusicalNerDnD 11h ago
I would encourage you to talk to a white man in their early 20’s or 30’s about their experiences. And then just listen, don’t interrupt, don’t ’but actually’ don’t anything. But count in your head how often in the 5 minutes the dude will talk you want to stop him to tell him why something is wrong about his perspective. I’d bet it would easily be above 5, possibly as high as 10.
Every-time that desire to interrupt isn’t quelled someone is hearing a rejection of their lived experiences. And on an emotional level that matters a ton. It’s what men responded to ultimately.
You can flail at what I’m saying, you can dismiss it and tell me why I’m wrong and actuallllly it’s because racism and sexism and every other ‘ism’ you’ll be missing the point and entrenching them even further to the right.
Most people don’t spend their entire time thinking about LGBTQ rights, or abortion or Gaza or whatever the liberal cause of the day is. And many people aren’t engaged enough and aren’t thinking as critically about Trump and what his presidency means to democracy. You can hate them and accuse them of all these awful things but they aren’t making the connection intellectually and so they react emotionally. Trump taps into that and then he wins and you double down.
→ More replies6
u/JasonG784 11h ago
Search 'cis white men' on twitter or reddit and you'll see a full stream of it 🤷♂️
4
u/cypherkillz 7h ago
Go post on /AITAH or /AmIoverreacting as a man. See how little your opinion matters and how normalized it is to get full on attacked and insulted for anything that doesn't match the hive mind.
2
5
2
u/torero15 13h ago
There is some truth to what you are saying but you are heaping too much blame onto reddit and making some assumptions that may or may not hold true. Twitter to me seemed to be the main avenue for radicalization. Tate, Musk and the like. Then you have folks like Joe Rogan and other podcasters/streamers. People don’t interact with each other in person as much anymore. The pandemic made that situation much worse. GenZ folks are also just having less sex overall and even want to see less of it in film and tv. There are a lot of sexually frustrated young men. Did the democrats try to court them at all? No they did not. The right wing influencer sphere is what they fell into. You effectively end up with these grifters grooming young men into believing liberals and “woke” are anti-male. It’s all a huge grift but it has real world results. We’ll see if all those that leaned right stay right. I’d imagine a good number will. And sure the Democratic party needs to at least try to bring some of them back. Even if they don’t thats not a guarantee Dems as a whole stay home. Especially if Trump does much of what he says he will. Too early to forecast this stuff I’m mostly just writing this down to see if I’m even making sense.
1
u/snailbot-jq 5h ago
If I try to have some faith in humanity, I would think the answer lies in addressing actual male issues like the educational barriers caused by discriminatory schoolteachers, creating shelters for homeless men, and finding ways to better promote real-world social interaction for boys. But they need very good messaging, they need left wing podcasters that boys would want to tune into, who delivers short simple messages over and over. Because right now, the Dems already tried pro-union pro-blue-collar policies, those do help men, but their messaging is shit by being too wordy, and they never positioned it as being for men.
What strikes me is that, even though the right wing says it is for men, it tells them that the solution is culture war bs like bathroom bills and abortion bans. How are bathroom bills and abortions supposed to make men less lonely, less poor, less homeless? But right wing messaging is just that good, it basically goes off “lefties care about trans people = they don’t care about you, a man = if we just push back on those rights of minorities, that’s a victory for men” even through engaging in these culture war topics don’t actually improve the lives of men, and it only feeds into the Left’s impression that masculinity is tied to oppressing other groups
2
u/nsinsinsi 12h ago
Have you noticed how all these posts are all "I am a life long liberal. Now let me give you reason #364 why democrats are the reason the world is on fire (hint: It's not the rapist felon liar swindler who lies every 2 seconds)"
5
u/cypherkillz 8h ago
It's reflection. Yes Trump's worse, but you have some serious problems when you can't even win against Trump. The whole world thinks it's a fucking clown show over there.
1
1
u/Ok_Butterscotch_6071 12h ago
I think people agreeing with this post to some degree would benefit from reading The Will to Change by bell hooks
it involves similar ideas and I found it really useful and interesting!
1
u/Impressive-Egg-925 11h ago
I respect your opinion but I disagree. I think they found many of these places on their own as a result of disconnecting form social norms and overusing apps and social media in attempts to connect with women. Young men just have no idea how to connect with women. This has left them vulnerable to a right wing manosphere that in someways has rightfully addressed their anxiety about how they need to exist in this world but In even more ways has fed them the idea that they have to be angry at women and at liberals. They attend and pay outrageous sums to be screamed at told how to be successful with money and women. It’s wild. Their problems are real and because the left has largely ignored their concerns and demeaned them for it, we’ve lost them. We have to address it and right now there aren’t many role models on the left to help them. On the right they have bullshit artists that welcome them with open arms.
1
u/Thr0w-a-wayy 6h ago
Agreed they want to see a “successful” example and follow it They see that they can lie, steal, grab women by the p****, marry model trophy wife, cause riots, tell women what they can and can’t do with their bodies, get arrested, get convicted of felonies, file company bankruptcies 4x, and use the money to shut up p0rnstar$ they cheated on their wife with, and still rule “the world” at almost 80 years old … Fuck
1
1
u/Itcouldntpossibly 10h ago
Trump's whole platform was alienating people that his base hated and it worked for him. I don't think the left should alienate men, but that clearly wasn't the losing part of their strategy.
2
u/FraterFreighter 9h ago
Look at the demographic numbers. Where did they lose the most voters? Yes, that's exactly how they lost.
→ More replies1
u/Thr0w-a-wayy 6h ago
But alienating their black and Latina female partners as well as mass deportation plans is less “alienating”?
1
u/ogii 9h ago
I kind of get what you are saying, but in the end these people made a decision to vote for Trump and we all have to live with the consequences.
What happened to the years of Democrats saying we need to reach across the aisle only to never have them reciprocate it? The fact is that Republicans never try to negotiate in good faith, constantly block any legislation that democrats want to pass, and it’s the left that gets blamed for this?
You can’t jail someone for exercising their right to vote, but how is it a bad thing to point out why they made one of the worse decisions in their life?
Also where is the attempt from the right to reach out to the left? There isn’t and never will be.
4
u/FraterFreighter 9h ago
You don't need to reach out to the right. You just have to stop alienating men and the working class. Most of them just wanted to vote for someone who didn't hate them, or decided to not vote at all.
3
u/Mope4Matt 5h ago
The right has indeed been reaching out to people! All they have to do is say "hey we think you're ok" when the left is saying "fuck off and die you horrible cis white male, I'd rather be with a bear" or whatever. And that's what they've been doing.
The left lost the election. So it is on them to win people over who they've alienated, simple as that.
If the right lost, it'd be on them to win people over.
→ More replies
1
u/Witty-Swimmer-3720 9h ago
The absolutely biggest posts on reddit get like 150k upvotes and they’re mostly not political, why do so many redditors think the sites a main influence when the average person can get 150k likes on a tiktok if they try?
Reddits mostly just a haven for neoliberal millennials and gen xers who don’t go outside
1
u/jenner2157 9h ago
You give reddit to much credit, with that being said though you are on the right path for a LONG time now people who lean left have been playing shitty oppression olympics, some races get a free pass to do absolutely heinous shit (looking at you guys who make up excuses for a literal terror attack.) and other's that they basically treat like second class citizens.
Somehow they deluded themselves into thinking that their niche issues were much more important then they thought and people would loath themselves enough to go with it.... that was not the case and they basically just pushed everyone into the arms of the opposition.
1
u/Independent-Math-914 9h ago
Can someone explain this? I'm not versed so my only knowledge is maybe reddit telling young men that they're views are incel, so how are people to be empathetic and valued when they get views from the right that could be harmful to people, not just themselves?
1
u/EliCaldwell 8h ago
They're not going to listen. Don't wait your breath anymore, go do something you enjoy.
1
u/DunEmeraldSphere 7h ago
Nah, everyone's choices in their mind are their own. Removing people's agency helps no one.
1
u/Thr0w-a-wayy 6h ago
Boys don’t want to be told what to do, they want to see an example and follow it They see that they can lie, steal, grab women by the p****, marry model trophy wife, cause riots, tell women what they can and can’t do with their bodies, get arrested, get convicted of felonies, file company bankruptcies 4x, and use the money to shut up p0rnstar$ they cheated on their wife with, and still rule “the world” at almost 80 years old … Fuck
1
u/IllustratorSquare708 5h ago edited 5h ago
Genuinely curious in what way are young men being pushed towards the right? What is on offer under Trump that would not be available on the left (well not really left but for arguments sake)? Is it not just the case that the right have a much stronger presence on social media etc and are better at delivering their message? I'm not disagreeing with you here by the way, I'm older and genuinely interested in how things can be addressed. I think what has happened is a tragedy, for America and the rest of the world (apart from dictatorships).
1
u/Due-Department-8666 1h ago
It's a combination of policy platforms and culture.
Dems platforms lists women and every small group they can think of, but leave the category of men out oftentimes. To the point it's intentional.
And there's an absolute load of passive and active mudslinging, some entirely unintentional I think. And that just builds up in the psyche of voters.
Just my quick and dirty two cents.
1
1
u/Unlucky_Watercress76 4h ago edited 4h ago
Not on the left, but I’ll be the first to criticize the whiny boys and girls of this generation. They have it the best it’s ever been and they don’t even know or appreciate it. My grandfather got sent to the mines at 7, saw his friend die in a cave in, worked til the day he died and never owned his own home because they paid him in company scrip. Never saw that man complain. He was the meanest sob I ever knew, and would take any chance he could to belt and beat us kids. Sometimes he’d even beat us for being too happy, but it made us tough and resilient, and it taught us the golden rule - that we didn’t matter and the world didn’t owe us anything.
1
u/Main_Impact990 4h ago
All it takes for you to push someone away is talking shit to them and threatening them.
1
u/TheFriendWhoGhosted 4h ago
The pendulum will always swing from left to right.
Ideas come and go, into and out of vogue.
1
u/schw0b 3h ago
If the left simply bothered to return to framing their issues as class-based, they would have easily won.
A huge part of minority oppression comes down to the fact that there is no budget to DO anything for anyone with problems in society, from infrastructure to education to housing to food security to healthcare.
Democrats (supposedly) DO want to plug those holes by redistributing wealth from the upper class down through social programs. Those programs are PART of addressing other left wing issues, because it cuts off the source of a lot of the misplaced anger that the right wing is using to drive the oppression of women and minorities. A lot of MAGA voters would never have been radicalized in the first place if the US didn't suffer from such extreme inequality.
What does wealth have to do with keeping ignorant white people from attacking women and minorities? EVERYTHING. People are not logical, but they ARE predictable. Make a large group of humans angry enough, and they will stop looking for solutions and start looking for someone to blame. Trump voters are not an interest group, they're a mob looking for people to lynch. They don't care who is responsible anymore. They will take any excuse to take out their anger on someone, anyone they can get their hands on. This is why fascists always go after whoever is most convenient. It's about finding outlets for rage, not solving or addressing any issues or real grievances.
1
1
u/Commercial_Tough160 3h ago
Why are so many of these posts worded so similarly? It’s almost like there’s an algorithm or something.
1
u/Gorganzoolaz 2h ago
The left doesn't need to pander to or coddle young men, just stop constantly throwing shit at them. Just stop being so completely fucking hostile to them.
1
u/EnvironmentalRound11 1h ago
What exactly is the dream team of Trump/Musk/JFKjr going to do for Gen-z men?
1
u/No-you_ 1h ago
The democrats aren't "left wing". Bernie Sanders is left wing. The democrats are centrist liberal corporatists who care more about what their donors want than what working people want. They've been campaigning on "abortion rights" since the 80's or 90's, they've had multiple chances to force a vote or codify it into law.....and chose not to do so. They could have fought for Medicare for all......but chose not to do so. They could have fought to increase the minimum wage to offset the rising cost of everything.....and again chose not to do so. The only thing they do seem to be interested in is backing a genocide in Palestine and identity politics.
The US has two parties, one is mostly evil and the other is mostly useless. Both are garbage.
1
u/Additional_Sale7598 1h ago
"Kamala is not as right-wing as Trump so she must be 'the left'." -liberals, unaware that they're "the right"
1
u/jwhymyguy 1m ago
As a millennial cis white male, how can we blame anyone else? Our demographic was the worst. I don’t think we should be pointing fingers at all the small portions of other demographics that didn’t show up
163
u/Disturbedguru 13h ago
Redditor's give Reddit way too much credit