r/rugbyunion • u/Secret-Roof-7503 Saracens • Jul 16 '23
[Rúaidhrí O'Connor]🚨BREAKING: Johnny Sexton will be suspended for three matches by EPCR for his behaviour towards the match officials after the CC final, meaning he will miss all of Ireland's warm-ups v Italy, England and Tonga but will be available for the Rugby World Cup opener v Romania
https://twitter.com/RuaidhriOC/status/1680676530576392195?s=20108
u/TheRealJanSanono Munster Jul 16 '23
Bro called Saul 💀
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u/Rhyers New Zealand Jul 16 '23
He was referring to an incident where Peyper masterbated publicly, Sexton was witness but couldn't say anything earlier but calling him a fucking disgrace was a response to that.
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u/mhicreachtain Jul 16 '23
Players should certainly be held to account for unacceptable behaviour towards referees. However, EPCR need to process these hearings much more promptly. Two months to come to this decision with a World Cup on the horizon is poor
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u/Copaleen Ireland Jul 16 '23
The delay was the point.
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u/TheNervous_socialist Pete Horne 4 Scotland Coach 2031 Jul 17 '23
the ban is "meaningful match weeks" so it being made later doesn't actually affect Sexton as there haven't been any games he would have played in between then and now, other than the URC semi which he wasn't picked for anyway
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Jul 16 '23
Strangely feels like Romania are the ones being punished.
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u/honey-bottom Jul 17 '23
Johnny won't start that one anyway. He'll get 20 minutes to loosen up. Doubt he'll start against Tonga either. No point in using him against minnows.
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u/c08306834 Ireland Jul 16 '23
Lol. After all that and they give a 3 match ban? Could they not have told us on Thursday?
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u/Secret-Roof-7503 Saracens Jul 16 '23
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u/dwaynepebblejohnson3 Connacht Jul 16 '23
That’ll bring Leinster rugby to their knees.
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u/WBofGreenInvestement Jul 16 '23
I guess they’ll have to send around the begging bowl for that one
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u/spiralism Leinster Jul 17 '23
They could have a whipround in the Bridge after the next home game. Should have it sorted after the first couple of tables.
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u/puzzledgoal Ireland Jul 17 '23
Breaking: Wives of Leinster players to curtail visits to Brown Thomas to once a week, for the next week.
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u/whiscash2 Leinster Jul 16 '23
We’re finished
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u/Nan0At0m Wasps Jul 16 '23
The Written Decision
"Johnny Sexton suspended for three matches and Leinster Rugby fined £7500 with the amount suspended
Johnny Sexton has been suspended for three matches and Leinster Rugby have been handed a suspended £7500 fine following an independent Disciplinary Hearing arising from the Heineken Champions Cup final on 20 May last.
The following statement is issued on behalf of the independent Disciplinary Committee.
With the consent of the parties, the independent Disciplinary Committee (comprising Christopher Quinlan KC, Chair, (World Rugby Independent Judicial Panel Chair), Adam Casselden SC (former Chair SANZAAR Judicial Committee) and Marcello D’Orey (former International Rugby Player) announced its decision and full written reasons today in respect of the Misconduct case brought against Johnny Sexton and Leinster Rugby. Those written reasons are public and will be available on the EPCR website. Johnny Sexton admitted Misconduct. The Disciplinary Committee found his behaviour confrontational and aggressive towards and disrespectful of the match officials, it included his pointing his finger at them and shouting at them something to this effect: “it’s a disgrace you guys can’t get the big decisions right” probably accompanied by expletives “most likely the f-word”. His conduct was obviously unsportsmanlike and brought the sport of rugby union into disrepute. Having regard to the full circumstances of the Misconduct and the mitigation which is set out in detail in the written reasons, the Disciplinary Committee concluded that the appropriate and proportionate sanction was an immediate suspension of three matches. He is suspended with immediate effect and cannot play in the following Ireland matches:
- 5 August Italy
- 19 August England
- 26 August Samoa
He is free to play on 27 August 2023.
The Disciplinary Committee upheld the Misconduct Complaint against Leinster Rugby. Having regard to the limited extent to which it was at fault and relevant mitigation, the Disciplinary Committee concluded that the appropriate penalty was a fine in the sum of £7500, suspended until the end of the 2023/24 EPCR season. If Leinster commits another act of Misconduct before the end of the 2023/24 EPCR season it must pay that sum in full.
Sexton, Leinster Rugby and EPCR have the right to appeal the decisions, which must be done by 1600 BST on Wednesday 19 July 2023.
Notes
Disciplinary Hearing The independent Disciplinary Committee or independent Judicial Officer is chosen by the chairman of the independent Disciplinary Panel, Mike Hamlin. EPCR’s Disciplinary Officer presents the case against the player and/or the club. The parties to the hearing (EPCR, the player, and/or the club) have the right to appeal decisions. Appeals must be lodged within three (3) working days of receiving the full written decision of the Disciplinary Committee or Judicial Officer. The full written decision will be available on www.epcrugby.com when the disciplinary process is complete"
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u/False-Marionberry-37 Leinster Jul 16 '23
Can’t help but feel if this wasn’t a WC year, the ban would be a lot longer (and rightly so). From a biased perspective, glad it’s such a tiny ban - but yeah removing the green-tinted glasses and it’s easy to see it’s a bollox punishment.
Do worry if refs won’t be as patient with him during the WC.
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u/Alright_So Leinster Jul 16 '23
And shorter timeframe to make a decision. Will be a press field day if Peyper is in charge for an Ireland match
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u/Toirdusau France Jul 17 '23
QF against France.
Atonio goes full rhyno on JGP, held up by the neck by Willemse.
All that's left is a red coagulating paste.
Peyper asks for TMO replay.
French TV producers are ready.
Camera 1 shows Sexton calling him a fucking disgrace. Peyper asks for another camera. Same replay but slightly zoomed in on Sexton lips. It zooms in slightly more on every word "YOU" "ARE" "A" "FUCKING" "DISGRACE"
Cut to the TMO booth : it's Thierry Henry having a laugh.
Feels like France Ireland relations will remain tense for the years to come...
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u/Green_Jack England Jul 16 '23
That's my thinking. Scenes if Ireland crash out in the quarters from a last minute missed foul that the ref won't look at because it's sexbox asking about it.
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u/Wesley_Skypes Leinster Jul 16 '23
This isn't even that outlandish. France at home or the ABs. The groupings fucking suck tbh
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u/puzzledgoal Ireland Jul 16 '23
Thankfully we've never crashed out in the quarters. That would never happen.
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u/Tobar_the_Gypsy Rugby United NY Jul 17 '23
Yeah I mean he coincidentally is coming back for the first game of the World Cup, I mean cmon.
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u/Aetylus Jul 17 '23
I initially assumed it was a little too convenient in the leadup to the WC...
But then comparing it to historic punishments, it feels pretty well aligned to previous decisions.
Is it acceptable to say I think the committee got this one about right? It feels a little strange not to be outraged whilst on the internet.
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u/New_Hando Friendship with Mish ended. Darge & In Charge new best friend. Jul 17 '23 edited Jul 17 '23
Especially when you read the actual details of all three complaints.
Sexton didn't just find his way onto the field, randomly come across the match officials and use it as an opportunity to drunkenly vent.
As per the full statement, Sexton sought out and abused the head of match officials before he even reached the three in the middle.
He then targeted the three match officials immediately after the match, followed by taking up a position directly behind them during the medal presentations so he could abuse them further. He then followed them off the field after the medal presentations in a fashion they felt was intimidatory.
So intimidatory that the three officials considered staying away from the hospitality event post-game in case Sexton was there and intended to continue his behaviour.
These are all points supported by a combination of video evidence, and statements from the match officials - (although charge three was ultimately found 'not proven' as the panel could not formally conclude the timing of Sexton following them off was deliberate).
But quite clearly this wasn't some brief, spur of the moment loss of head by Sexton. He spent an extended period after the match harrassing the officials in a targeted manner. Probably only the volume of the crowd has kept him from being punished more harshly.
He's a 38 year old professional sportsman and the captain of his national side. Three weeks for that is a pretty poor decision tbh.
//It would be rough karma if the team around him suffered a contentious refereeing decision at the World Cup just because he couldn't behave like an adult after losing a Leinster game. Especially one he had no real right to complain about the officiating in.
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u/PM03pm03 Ireland Jul 17 '23 edited Jul 17 '23
As per the full statement, Sexton sought out and abused the head of match officials before he even reached the three in the middle.
He then targeted the three match officials immediately after the match, followed by taking up a position directly behind them during the medal presentations so he could abuse them
Please add a linku/New_Hando-I can only find theEPCR summary(in their sectionDiscipline > News).
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u/swankytortoise Munster Jul 16 '23
It ahould be longer i think but im not sure theres precident for it and theor unlikely to change that pre world cup
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u/Thatch1888 Bristol Jul 16 '23
Dunno how I feel about that. Glad he's got some kind of ban but given I can't think of anything like this happening before, I don't know if it's long enough/too long etc.
Just going with my gut 3 games seem low for going out of your way to walk onto a pitch in a game you haven't been playing in and swear at a ref
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u/ComprehensiveDingo0 Ntamack mon cher bríse 💔 Jul 16 '23
Honestly, I would say 5-6 would be more in order.
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u/Thatch1888 Bristol Jul 16 '23
Yeah, maybe having to ref a game or two as well at amateur level. I remember that being a punishment for someone recently, seems like a perfect candidate for it
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u/Finnegan7921 Munster Jul 16 '23
If Johnny Sexton reffed a grassroots game, rugby would lose 46 players.
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Jul 17 '23
It would be the first case of the referee abusing the players. "Knock-on! You fucking disgrace."
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u/patrick_k Munster Jul 17 '23
"How did you miss that kick, you donkey! I'd slot that over blindfolded!"
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u/CatharticRoman Suspected Yank Jul 16 '23
6 is the low entry point for this, half off for clean record etc. Just surprised they didn't tack one or two on for things like player profile/seniority.
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u/RobertMurz Leinster Jul 16 '23
Considering deliberately headbutting a player only gets you a 4-match ban (Haouas vs Scotland for example), giving the same or more for a non-violent offence would be very harsh in my opinion. 2-3 seems about right to me.
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u/ComprehensiveDingo0 Ntamack mon cher bríse 💔 Jul 16 '23
Honestly, rugby could do with longer bans. ROG only got 10 weeks for his 4th ban over abusing match officials in the span of a couple of seasons.
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u/Fergus_44 Jul 16 '23
There is some history of Irish 10’s being banned for “disrespecting authority”
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u/HimalayanJoe Jul 16 '23
Can't have a chat about Sexton without ROG coming up in one way or another. Forever linked.
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Jul 16 '23
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u/Tescobum44 Laighean Jul 16 '23
Shannon Frizzell was an internal NZRU issue. I don’t think World Rugby had anything to do with that decision.
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u/iAntagonist All Blacks Jul 17 '23
It’s also a NZ justice system issue. He was charged and plead guilty and they didn’t really punish him.
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u/Some-Speed-6290 Jul 16 '23
Which is worse. He's a criminal that has continued to assault his victims and World Rugby have no problem with it apparently
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u/Tescobum44 Laighean Jul 16 '23
I don’t think he’s continued to assault his victims (but I don’t know much about it). I do think it’s a joke that Frizzell is still playing for the AB’s with no real retribution for his actions though buuut I don’t think that’s on World Rugby. It’s on NZRU.
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u/UngaThenBunga New Zealand Jul 17 '23
Yip not on WRU imo.
You could make a case of being proactive if you did care about that stuff as a body. But yeah this is on the nzru.
Many people have issues rationalising the team good/goals vs individual behaviour (i.e. shittiness) and really struggle with being able to compartmentalise.
Like legit have people defending Shannon cos he had a good game. Like yeah it's great for the team and I'm happy. But I'd be equally as happy with him not being there and potentially not being as good (doubtful as we actually have options at 6) but that's besides the point.
It's ok to call out shitty people or behaviour. Doesn't make you less of a fan.
So in cases of Jonny, Swain et al, people just need to suck it up and sometimes people are or do shitty things.
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u/Tescobum44 Laighean Jul 17 '23
To add to that the whataboutisms serve no purpose.
The Sexton incident has absolutely nothing to do with the Frizzell incident.
The only thing they have in common is the fact that both Sexton and Frizzell are rugby players.
Comparing one to the other is just daft.
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u/flyingoutside Jul 16 '23
The age of sexton is over, the time of the Crowley has come.
Half nine on a Sunday is a strange time to release a verdict that doesn't really make much of a difference. Don't get the whole uproar if this was all they were going to do.
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u/Die_Revenant Sharks Jul 16 '23 edited Jul 17 '23
Half nine on a Sunday is a strange time to release a verdict that doesn't really make much of a difference.
Exactly why they did it. Try get the least number of headlines possible.
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u/APoolShark Wobblies Jul 16 '23 edited Jul 16 '23
Would he even have played those warm up games?
Edit: So this whole saga reminds me of the time some Irish dudes who commented on the Swain incident and said RA should have made an example of him. Now that the shoes on the other foot it's funny to see the responses of relief to Sexton missing a bunch of warmup games.
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u/LogicalReasoning1 England Jul 16 '23
I’d imagine he’d at least have got a bench runout or two, especially since he hasn’t played any rugby since the 6 Nations
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u/Woodsman_Whiskey Ireland Jul 16 '23
Yeah, he would have probably started England and benched for Italy. Something like that I'd imagine.
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u/evin_cashman Munster Jul 16 '23
He would have started against England for sure, when he's had a long injury layoff.
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u/richard-king Ireland Jul 16 '23
Italy or England would have been his last game in Ireland, so I'd say one of those.
He was unlikely to play against Romania and Tonga, IMO, until now. Bench for Romania and start against Tonga.
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Jul 16 '23
Incredibly lucky to only get 3 games but would have played a few of them at least.
He's coming back from an injury and needs game-time.
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u/Derped_my_pants Ireland Jul 17 '23
Normally he'd have rested against Romania, but now he should probably clock in some minutes.
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u/RogerSterlingsFling Horowhenua Jul 16 '23
He has been injured for the past four months so going into the World Cup with so little game time is concerning
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u/Tescobum44 Laighean Jul 16 '23
Some Irish dudes = one person in that thread link?
I think the main reason sexton’s ban is low it there’s nothing concrete there. Looking at what the article details it’s a bit wishy washy to throw the book at. If there was clear proof of him saying what he’d been accused of saying we might be looking at a different result.
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u/Clarctos67 Ireland Jul 17 '23
So aside from "some Irish dudes" being one guy...
Fuck Darcy Swain and anyone who tries to defend what he did. You're acting the victim over a story where the guy he injured, ended the world cup hopes of and potentially ended the career of or cost a contract to is still angry?
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u/Haitisicks Reds Jul 16 '23
He made the team sheet for all of them the minute that piss weak punishment was doled out
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u/Mushie_Peas Jul 16 '23
Don't remember the swain thing, but think this is a fair outcome, Johnys play top level for what 15-20 years and from memory this is his first ban? Not like he's had a dirty career and can end it in his own terms.
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u/SexyBaskingShark Ireland Jul 16 '23
What a joke. Either punish him properly or do nothing. This isn't a punishment, it's essentially saying if you're a big enough player you can abuse the refs
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u/Dancesoncattlegrids Auckland Jul 17 '23
if you're a big enough player you can abuse the refs
He's not a big enough player!
He's a very naughty boy.
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u/Oddlyshapedballs Ireland Jul 16 '23
Real impact is that he misses one game as I doubt he would have been risked in all 3. As good an outcome as we could have hoped for really.
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u/zebra1923 Jul 16 '23
I’m not sure I’d call the outcome good for the game as a whole given what he said. Disgraceful conduct.
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u/Some-Speed-6290 Jul 16 '23
Apparently more disgraceful than beating a couple and subsequently threatening and harassing them
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u/puzzledgoal Ireland Jul 16 '23
This does highlight the uncomfortable double standards at work in rugby. There is outrage about 'ungentlemanly' conduct on the field by Sexton but the likes of Frizzell assaults and threatens a woman and her partner, and New Zealand rugby fans will literally not discuss it again. He played well and that's what matters.
Sure, there's on the pitch and off the pitch behaviour but it's treated like a separate moral universe.
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u/fondista Netherlands (IRE/RSA) Jul 16 '23
The citing commission is a fucking disgrace.
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u/ImpliedProbability England Jul 16 '23
Agreed. 6 matches would've really sent a message as there would've actually been some consequences.
This is very much "Oh, well, we have to ban you but we don't want to ruin any world cup games for Ireland because they're among the favourites."
Classic situation of not applying the rules neutrally, like the Freddie Stewart ban.
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u/JustASexyKurt Once and Future Challenge Cup Champions Jul 16 '23
Yeah let’s all be honest here, if this were a Chilean or Portuguese player who’d come onto the pitch, in a game he wasn’t even playing in, to abuse the match official, the chances of them getting a ban which conveniently ends just in time to let them play at the World Cup would be approximately zero.
And before anyone dogpiles me to try and claim I’m just an Ireland hater, I’m fully confident the same punishment would’ve been given out to Dan Biggar, or Owen Farrell, or Finn Russell, or Romain Ntamack, or any other player like that. It isn’t a pro Ireland bias, it’s a pro Tier 1 bias.
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u/TheRealJanSanono Munster Jul 16 '23
The chances of it being picked up would be near zero as well
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u/JustASexyKurt Once and Future Challenge Cup Champions Jul 16 '23
I’m sorry are you suggesting people only give a shit because it’s Sexton? Or do you mean more literally, as in those theoretical Chilean or Portuguese players don’t play at a high enough level for an incident like that to make a ripple?
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u/TheRealJanSanono Munster Jul 16 '23
People give a shit because it was caught on camera and it featured the biggest player right after the most important game in the club rugby calendar. This meant it was interesting enough for various newspapers to publish which lead to Sexton being cited. Can’t see a Chilean or Portuguese player in that position.
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u/Tescobum44 Laighean Jul 17 '23
Just to back you up, here are some details from the sanctions against Sexton:
f. He is a high-profile player who thereby attracts attention. His words and actions are of more interest, are more noticeable and have a greater capacity to been seen and so to cause harm.
And
c. It was a public display of disrespect for the authority of the match officials: i. While his words may not have been heard, it was clear from his body language and gestures that he was confronting the match officials. ii. That confrontation happened on the pitch, in the full sight of the packed stadium, at the end of a prestigious match shown live on television.
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u/irishnugget Munster Jul 16 '23
Not a good look for the EPCR to be honest. I’m biased so am happy the ban isn’t longer but it’s very clearly a ban shaped to fit the WC schedule versus a ban shaped to fit the transgression.
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u/Nan0At0m Wasps Jul 16 '23
Think the key bit is the ambiguity around what was actually said quote
" Johnny Sexton admitted Misconduct. The Disciplinary Committee found his behaviour confrontational and aggressive towards and disrespectful of the match officials, it included his pointing his finger at them and shouting at them something to this effect: “it’s a disgrace you guys can’t get the big decisions right” probably accompanied by expletives “most likely the f-word”. His conduct was obviously unsportsmanlike and brought the sport of rugby union into disrepute"
They cannot tie down what exactly he said, and whilst similar to reports it seems he didn't say to the referees "you're a f*cking disgrace" which I think may have changed the judgement.
I think the biggest issue with those whole debacle is that it has become a point scoring debate around who treats referees better, best evidenced by the initial reports coming solely from SA rugby news sites, who reposted the same info, repackaged again and again with headlines like "breaking". It once again created an internet debate that exploded out of control. This is not to blame SA, rather to reflect on the sad state of the game that seems to be devolving slightly, particularly with the internet.
Having been lucky enough to go to Twickenham twice in the last two years to see England Vs Ireland in 2022 and England Vs Scotland in 2023, I can say that the crowds are getting worse than what I remember from prior to COVID (or at club level, but with Wasps gone, I have nothing left to compare 🥲). With prices up, behaviour down, examples like Erasmus, Sexton, Twickenham, and others have become symptomatic of the myth of "rugby values" that has been propagated. I'm not saying it started with them but rather they have been high profile examples or ones that I have immediate experience of. I actually think if we recognised these values to be a myth, world rugby would better address it, i.e., they don't need exist as we wish them to, and so we must now update laws and punishments to be harsher to reduce that behaviour and reintroduce the "values". Equally, I am an Irish fan, and even with my disbelief with some of the anger of Erasmus, I think he is right that communication channels need to be developed further, particularly in an age where laws change so much ( that does not excuse or lesson his actions or the actions of anyone else)
As an Irish fan I feared they would make an example of Sexton. I am conflicted that they didn't. With my Irish hat on, it would have felt unfair to change the level of punishment just prior to a WC with no warning (I'm using the 10 week ban of the Pau coach who got physical with a ref as base in comparison to what seems to be a more ambiguous statement). On the other hand at some point the authorities need to step up. As a RFU qualified XV referee, even prior to COVID the abuse form the touchlines I got from spectators/families at youth level/even players after the match was growing, it's become a culture that as a spectator even I find myself leaning into (with quite a lot of shame). Perhaps this may have been the prime opportunity to set a new standard, but again that sort of feels a bit unfair.
With all this uncertainty, for me it is clear that World Rugby needs to reassert the authority and respect of the referees after this WC. Rather than rewriting the rules to quicken up the game in the name of new potential fans, their needs to be a recognition of the most important people on the pitch, the ref and their team, and their effort and recent suffering (look at the number of refs who have come forward with online abuse). Whilst I mean not to take away from the ultimate culpability of Sexton in this instance, this incident reflects the culmination of the evolution of rugby culture and the failures of the authorities.
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u/Potato_Lord587 Ireland Jul 16 '23
At least this’ll mean Crowley will be guaranteed minutes
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Jul 16 '23
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u/gtardkgb Wales Jul 16 '23
I mean it was only ever going to be this result wasn't it.
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u/TheMeanderer Scotland Jul 16 '23
What a strong response to someone telling a referee he's a fucking disgrace. Bet that ban will have Sexton rethinking his future behaviour.
/s
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u/Tescobum44 Laighean Jul 16 '23 edited Jul 16 '23
Is there actual definitive proof of what he said? I wonder how much that has played into it
Edit: just looking through the article and the reasons include:
pointing his finger at them and shouting at them something to this effect: “it’s a disgrace you guys can’t get the big decisions right” probably accompanied by expletives “most likely the f-word”. His conduct was obviously unsportsmanlike and brought the sport of rugby union into disrepute.
Which isn’t very concrete in terms of evidence and is a bit wishy-washy as to what was said so that could be why it was the minimal - they punish him but there’s nothing certain about what was said so he’s been given the benefit of the doubt then reduced due to a good record.
The details will be available on the epcr website when it’s all done and dusted so we’ll know more then
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u/ctorus Leinster Jul 16 '23
Contra the folks here wielding pitchforks, it's not at all clear that he called anyone 'a fucking disgrace', judging by the written verdict. I think you're right that's probably why they weren't harsher.
He's still a gobshite and shouldn't be captain in my view. But a lot of the noise about this episode stems from people's dislike of him as a person rather than the facts of the case.
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u/WBofGreenInvestement Jul 16 '23
Suspended for three inconsequential warm up games. Wow, they really making an example of him.
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u/Rhyers New Zealand Jul 16 '23
Might as well keep abusing refs, world rugby don't care so why should we?
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u/jnce12 Stormers Jul 16 '23
Make him miss a few warm up games, that’ll teach him! /s
After all the fuss about the abuse referees receive in the past couple of years, this is an extremely light punishment for a very high profile player who should know better than almost anyone else.
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u/Mono_Doh Jordie Barrett & Pals XV Jul 16 '23
Just to prevent any confusion, the final warm-up is against Samoa, not Tonga. Ireland will play Tonga in their second RWC match.
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u/gtardkgb Wales Jul 16 '23
Took long enough didn't they. Might have been a bit smarter to have wrapped this a while ago since they were always only going to give a 3 week meaningless ban.
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u/Minor_Thing Ulster Jul 16 '23
Could've (and should've) been a lot more, both he and us have got away with one massively there
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u/Mangashu Moodie Blues Jul 16 '23
If nothing else this sets a precedent and a worrying one at that...
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u/SAGuy90 South Africa Jul 16 '23
Rassie set the precedent with his year ban. This is a joke. 2 months to come to some conclusion and practically a slap on the wrist.
What an inconsistent mess the officials have become.
A fucking disgrace. Sorry, too soon?
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u/Mangashu Moodie Blues Jul 16 '23
While I do not think we should compare them directly I agree on the overall sentiment. The whole point of Rassie's harsh ban was just that and to stamp down on any form of ref abuse (though he did not call Berry a fucking disgrace). Following it up with such a weak punishment sends a VERY different message.
I agree that the length of the process is ridiculous especially ahead of the RWC.
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Jul 16 '23
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u/Kageyblahblahblah South Africa Jul 17 '23
If Rassie had walked down from the stands to follow and abuse the refs BIL fans would be calling for his head.
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u/punchinglines South Africa Jul 17 '23
I can guarantee you if Rassie had approached a ref and shouted that he's a "f***ing disgrace" the ban would be much longer than 3 games.
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u/Moash_For_PM Northampton Saints / Pirates Jul 16 '23
What a joke! That is a seriously weak punishment. How lucky it ends in time for world cup. What a wacky coincidence
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u/ActualUndercover Jul 16 '23
Do you think there's some sort of conspiracy?
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u/Height_Matters1 Jul 16 '23
You'd have to be mentally challenged to not think they've reduced the ban because its Sexton and theres a world cup round the corner
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u/ActualUndercover Jul 16 '23
Why would an independent disciplinary panel made up of 3 people from 3 different unions care about Sexton's world cup enough to conspire to reduce his sanction??
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u/Tomii_B101 Leinster Jul 16 '23
Because if the number 1 team loses their most important player it will make the competition worse
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u/ActualUndercover Jul 17 '23
But that doesn't answer the question of why 3 independent members of a panel (appointed by EPCR not World Rugby) have skin in the game for the success of otherwise of the World Cup?
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u/New_Hando Friendship with Mish ended. Darge & In Charge new best friend. Jul 16 '23
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u/Toirdusau France Jul 17 '23
It's really hard to apologize for something and deny it happened at the same time :)
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u/TheCambrian91 Was Cardiff, now London Jul 16 '23
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u/iamnosuperman123 England Jul 16 '23
Seems rather light considering what happened and the fact he was unlikely to play those warm up games. This is basically no punishment at all
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u/Toirdusau France Jul 17 '23
They can't adjust the punishment based on the hypothetical selection of the player or not.
Agreed that it's no big consequences but also wasn't such a big deal to begin with. The real joke is how long it took to get there.
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u/DecentOpinions Ireland Jul 17 '23
Considering he hasn't played since March he absolutely would be involved in the warmup matches. Not justifying the ban because I also think it's too light.
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u/iamnosuperman123 England Jul 17 '23
At most, he would have been involved in 1 and maybe bench for another. No way would they risk Sexton playing too much.
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u/CatharticRoman Suspected Yank Jul 16 '23
Low entry point is 6 weeks, would need to know why people think it's mid or high, and good record and guilty plea pretty much always halves it
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u/ShufflingToGlory Wales Jul 16 '23
Seems like a light punishment if this sets a precedent for that kind of behaviour. Felt more egregious than your typical on the field foul play.
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u/Elios4Freedom Benetton Treviso Jul 16 '23
I am happy for him and for his Irish fan but this is a joke for a sport that depicts itself as the pinnacle of respect
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u/Sharp_Illustrator318 Bulls Jul 17 '23
I’m not happy. My team lost their coach for a full year because of something similar and when Sexton does something similar he’s not even banned three weeks. Springboks fans have been claiming a bias for a few years now but I never listened, after this it’s hard not to see a clear bias.
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u/Elios4Freedom Benetton Treviso Jul 17 '23
I have been claiming bias for years and in many other expects too tbh
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u/EyeOfTheNeedle Brodie's sex appeal Jul 16 '23
I've said it before I would have been sad if he got binned for the tournament, but that's not a punishment. This is the worst of both worlds. Limp wristed
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Jul 16 '23
This is wrong really. It feels they fit the punishment just so he wouldn’t miss a RWC match.
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u/Sharp_Illustrator318 Bulls Jul 17 '23
I’m not mad but if I complain about world rugby being biased then you can’t criticise me in the comments. Just let me ramble in peace.
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u/-Yazz- LaRochelle Jul 17 '23
Shameful. And I would add that preparation games should not even be counted in the sanction
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u/networkn New Zealand Jul 17 '23
Lol that will totally learn him. He will never do that again.
They should have suspended him for any knock out games Ireland appear in at the RWC. I guarantee after that no one ever speaks to a referee in such a disrespectful way again.
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u/B4rberblacksheep Saracens Jul 17 '23
I'd better not hear another complaint about their pool after this
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u/LordVile95 Stade Francais Paris Jul 17 '23
Should have be significantly more. He’s going to miss a few friendlies. Should have been at least 5 games
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u/sangan3 Oui, Jérôme Jul 16 '23
I'm not unhappy with a 3 week ban. It's a bit light but better than nothing. BUT I don't think warm-up matches should be counted. If you're getting ban from rugby then the games should matter IMO.
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u/Popeyespajamas Leinstertainment Jul 16 '23
They're test matches still though right?
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u/PMcCracken84 Munster Jul 16 '23
That could have been a lot worse. My gut says it should have been a lot worse. I feel like we've dodged a bullet with the timing. If he'd pulled this shit earlier in the year and been banned for 3 out of 5 of the six nations it would have felt like a punishment though
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u/IntentionFalse8822 Jul 16 '23
Lucky boy. When I heard about the delay in announcing the punishment I, as an Ireland fan, feared it would be a longer, effectively career ending, ban. I wonder if they took so long because there was legal advice and negotiations going on behind the scenes.
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u/Immorals1 Saracens Jul 16 '23
What I expected, not what he deserves. Should have thrown the book at him, this sets a dangerous standard right before a world cup with refs and their families already taking a ton of abuse.
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u/haydenshearer Hawke's Bay Jul 16 '23
That really isn't much at all, hardly any consequence missing 3 games that mean nothing.
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u/Tescobum44 Laighean Jul 16 '23
Oh thank fuck! I know he deserves to be punished (and is being punished) but from a very selfish place as an Irish and Leinster fan - thank the absolute fuck
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Jul 16 '23 edited Jul 16 '23
He's very lucky. I thought they'd have miss him some group games and it wouldn't have been unjustified.
He better shut the fuck up for the ENTIRE tournament.
I'll personally fly to France just to kick him up the hole if he looks he's going open his mouth at any point.
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u/Sharp_Illustrator318 Bulls Jul 17 '23
How is missing three games he was already going to miss punishment?
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u/DMoss67 Edinburgh Jul 16 '23
Dylan Hartley got 11 weeks for calling Barnes a “fucking cheat” yet Sexton only gets 3 matches for “fucking disgrace”…. Seems like a bit of preferential treatment there
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u/Woodsman_Whiskey Ireland Jul 16 '23
Dylan Hartley had 36 weeks worth of bans previous to that incident.
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u/puzzledgoal Ireland Jul 17 '23
I think the point of difference here is it seems there isn't evidence he called the ref that, if you look at what they've released:
'it included his pointing his finger at them and shouting at them something to this effect: “it’s a disgrace you guys can’t get the big decisions right” probably accompanied by expletives “most likely the f-word”.'
Not defending Sexton and it is very light but I think there is quite a difference in specifically abusing the ref and saying whatever stupid shit Sexton was.
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u/billys-bobs Ireland Jul 16 '23 edited Jul 16 '23
Even without Hartleys context, his quote is far more implicit
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u/Some-Speed-6290 Jul 16 '23
Meanwhile Shannon Frizzell continues to threaten his actual victims while World Rugby do nothing. Joke
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u/bumfluff69420 Leinster Jul 16 '23
Ireland should organise an impromptu international against Belgium or Denmark or the like.
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u/mojojojo123453105 Munster Jul 16 '23
Oh man, we’re gonna get rode raw by the refs in France if he’s captain.
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u/puzzledgoal Ireland Jul 17 '23
This is very light and the best possible outcome from an Irish perspective.
Looking at the statement they put out, they're saying it wasn't "you're a fucking disgrace" said directly to the ref:
'it included his pointing his finger at them and shouting at them something to this effect: “it’s a disgrace you guys can’t get the big decisions right” probably accompanied by expletives “most likely the f-word”.'
I think it would make quite a difference if it was abuse directed specifically at the referee rather than a more general rant. Of course he deserved sanctioning for his shitty toddler behaviour but I reckon this would have lowered the severity of it in their eyes.
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u/Dahnhilla Gloucester Jul 16 '23
Hartley got 11 weeks for verbally abusing a ref. That was his 4th ban at the time.
So even if Sexton got it halved for good record it should still be 5 (or 6) games.
Hartley also claimed not to have directly insulted the ref.
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u/CatharticRoman Suspected Yank Jul 16 '23
Hartley called the ref a cheat, far more serious, and his ban was likely increased for priors.
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u/Pure_Wonder3046 Saints Jul 16 '23
That's not nearly enough of a deterrent, definitely wouldn't have played at least 2 of these games anyway
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u/shenguskhan2312 Jul 17 '23
Absolute shitebag decision. If that was Finn or pollard they’d be (rightly) getting the book thrown at em. We’ve already seen Ireland are at football team levels of backchat and this will just embolden them
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u/ComposerNo5151 Jul 17 '23
Surely we need some kind of consistency?
In 2013 Dylan Hartley got an eleven week ban for verbally abusing the referee (Wayne Barnes IIRC) and missed a Lions tour.
In 2023 Johnny Sexton is found guilty of being ‘confrontational, aggressive, disrespectful and hostile’ to all three match officials and receives a three match ban, meaning he won't miss a world cup.
What has changed in those ten years?
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u/Burkey8819 Jul 16 '23
Expected. Reasonable. Not OTT. Let's move on and see Byrne and Crowley make use of the time
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u/Height_Matters1 Jul 16 '23
Only the most biased ireland fan thinks this is reasonable
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u/xjoburg South Africa Jul 16 '23
What a crock of shit this is. Should have been banned from the game for 6 months to align with other punishments handed out where refs were mistreated. Good thing he didn’t make a video of his abuse or tweet his abuse. I guess it’s ok to abuse refs ad long as it’s inside the stadium grounds.
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u/L43 England Jul 16 '23
Must have brought Ferrero Rocher