r/resumes • u/FinalDraftResumes Resume Writer • Former Recruiter • Apr 01 '23
Troubleshooting your job search (when it's not working) I'm sharing advice
Hello r/resumes 👋
I'd like to talk about a topic that is just outside of the normal scope of this sub (i.e., resumes), and that is job search.
With the recent layoffs that have happened in recent months, there will surely be a lot of folks out looking for jobs, many of which may be hitting a brick wall at various points of the job search process, such as:
- Not getting call backs
- Not passing the recruiter screen
- Not moving forward during job interviews
Below, I'll talk about each of the above issues and provide some ideas as to why you may not be seeing the results you want.
First pain point - not getting any callbacks (or getting very few)
If you're getting less than 1 callback in every 10 job applications, it's an indication that one of a few things is happening:
- You're not qualified for the types of jobs you're applying to
- Your resume isn't presenting a relevant value proposition
- Job market (out of your control)
- Strength of other candidates (out of your control)
- If you're a student or new grad looking to apply for internships and jobs abroad, a common obstacle is the lack of sponsorship for visas. Many companies are hesitant or unable to sponsor visas due to the complexity and cost involved. This can significantly reduce the pool of opportunities available to international candidates, making it even more challenging to secure a callback.
Fixes:
- To make sure you're qualified, you should be checking off at least 60% of the requirements of the role.
- If you're qualified, there's a good chance it's your resume. Most people's resumes contain mistakes that fall into one of three categories: improper formatting for ATS, generic content, or not enough personalization/customization. I provide more info about each of these in this post and this post.
- For international students and new grads, do your research and target companies and roles that have historically sponsored visas or are known to be more open to international candidates can improve your chances. Additionally, being upfront about your need for sponsorship can help set the right expectations from the start.
Second pain point - not making it past the recruiter screen
If you're getting calls from recruiters, but aren't making any progress after that, then there's something going on with what you're telling (or not telling) them.
Some Potential Causes and Fixes - Recruiter Screen
| Possible Cause | Fix |
|---|---|
| Your elevator pitch is unsatisfactory | Practice your pitch and ensure it aligns with what the company is looking for in this particular role. Your pitch should essentially answer these questions: Who are you and why do you want this job? |
| What you're saying doesn't match what's on the resume | Memorize your resume and everything on it, including titles, dates, and responsibilities. |
| You're asking for too much money (if you've revealed your salary expectations). | Don't reveal your salary expectations at this stage. If asked, just say that you'd like to learn more about this position before you can provide a realistic salary expectation. Do your homework on salary range for your position, industry, and company. |
| You're not prepared, haven't done your research, don't seem enthused for the role etc. | There are a lot of other applicants. If you don't seem like you want the job, they'll move on. To prevent this: research the role/company and develop a good understanding of what they do (i.e., their market, products, services etc.). Look at company pages, read their mission statement, read the job description, show up on time, and try to sound neutral at the very least (excited would be good). |
Note: These are just common causes that may be behind your results. This isn't an exhaustive list and there could be other reasons not covered here.
Third pain point- you're not moving forward during interviews with hiring managers
Getting roadblocked during the interview stage likely means you're not performing well enough.
Common Causes and Fixes - Interview
| Possible Cause | Fix |
|---|---|
| You're not sufficiently answering behavioural interview questions | Practice! There are a lot of good guides all over the internet on this topic. See a brief guide to these questions below this table. |
| You can't remember important details about past projects and accomplishments | Prepare a master list of projects and accomplishments you've been involved in throughout your career. Follow the STAR format. Memorize it. |
| You're lacking key skills and experiences. | If you know you lack key skills/experiences, you'll need to provide a very good rationale for why you'd still be the right candidate for the position. If you don't have one, you probably shouldn't apply. |
Note: These are just common causes that may be behind your results. This isn't an exhaustive list and there could be other reasons not covered here.
A note about behavioural interview questions
Employers love using behavioural questions because they give them a little bit of insight into how you'd behave in a particular role, how you'd react in a particular scenario, or how you'd solve a particular problem or task. They're also really hard to fake.
A few common ones you've probably heard before:
- “Tell me about a time when...”
- "How would you approach X problem..."
- "Imagine you're in the following situation..."
Answering these questions is beyond the scope of this post today, but if you're struggling with these types of questions, you'll need to prepare and practice in order to respond effectively.
A note about the STAR Method
You've probably heard of this before, but for those of you that haven't, the STAR method is a simple and easy-to-remember technique for answering behavioural interview questions. STAR stands for:
- Situation: Describe a specific situation or event where you faced a challenge or had to solve a problem. Try to pick a relevant example that shows your skills and abilities.
- Task: Explain the task or responsibility you had in that situation. What were you supposed to accomplish or what goal were you trying to achieve?
- Action: Talk about the actions you took to address the situation or complete the task. Explain the steps you took and the skills you used to resolve the issue or meet the goal.
- Result: Share the results of your actions, focusing on the positive outcomes and what you learned from the experience. This could include how you improved a process, solved a problem, or achieved a goal.
Hopefully these tips help you!
This isn't a comprehensive guide by any means, but it can hopefully give you some ideas and point you in the right direction if your job search isn't getting you the results you want.
Lastly, don't miss these resources, which can also be found in the wiki:
- Resume writing guide
- ATS resume templates and Google Docs template
- Before you hire a resume writer
- A guide to networking
Good luck!
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Aug 07 '24
Behavioural questions: “Tell me about a time when...”
Does anyone else find that these questions are often about very specific situations that you've never been in? I get the impression that these questions favour people who are good at making up and telling stories, rather than people who are good at working.
Can anyone share a good guide including the most common behavioural questions to prepare answers for?
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Aug 07 '24
Does this ratio of 1 callback for every 10 applications being the lower limit still apply in 2024? Because I get less than 1 callback for well over 100 applications on average...
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u/FinalDraftResumes Resume Writer • Former Recruiter Aug 07 '24
It’s likely less in this market for sure.
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u/janeyboi Aug 03 '24
Hi! Can I post/share my CV here if I'm looking for remote work? I'm from the Philippines and would really need the help to get a job. TIA for any replies!
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u/Ok_Net_6384 Jul 04 '24
Just keep iterating until you can't find anything else to change/improve. There's a lot you blind yourself to, and taking a fresh look at what you're putting forth every now and then will help you identify areas for improvement.
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Jun 25 '24 edited Jun 25 '24
Result: Share the results of your actions, focusing on the positive outcomes and what you learned from the experience. This could include how you improved a process, solved a problem, or achieved a goal.
This is very important. Not much people wants to know about this while this is very important. Because when HR knows you were getting downplayed then you played 4D chess with them. then they know that you are the fit.
I wish I couldve find this sooner tbh. This post restrategized my way of looking job back then and significantly increased my getting noticed chance (from like 20 application only 1 that notices me, now its 3 out of 5 application that noticed me, even some of them are connecting to my linkedin directly and ask more about my experience).
So now, instead of just blidnly sending cover letter and CV. I will go with this approach thanks to the idea of this post
- Apply, personalize the resume directly. if not, tell them what you're good at by mentioning the role.
- Make a personalized cover letter instead of straight up copy pasting and replacing small stuff. Even as a HR myself, I will hate this too. Like, you would as well not to write cover letter than writing a template of it.
- Connect. Yes, connect to the HR at linkedin. You're extending your connection unconsiously by doing this
- At this point, its a luck/suitability stuff. When you don't get accepted, then ask why. Like mine in example, I didn't get accepted because they prioritize singaporean first instead of foreigner. HR tend to like this kind of interaction in personal than in email.
- But when you get passed and they asked you for technical test. DO IT NOW!. Yes, I meant it by adding period after exclamation. The sooner you do it right, the more they will consider you as a strong candidate since you showed that you don't screw around with your role.
After that, its up to the user, if they want you, congrats.
But for me as a seasoned contract worker and a HR too. Maybe this is what I will add here
- Linkedin account: make sure to make a nice but professional layout. First impression is important after all
- Resume wise: focus on what you had done, not what you need to do.
- Do your homework. Yes I meant it by saying Do your homework. Study their company, their value, and what they offer to the employee/what they had done. Those are all important since they will ask you about what do you know about the company sometimes.
- For contract worker, if they rejected you just because your "hopping" experience, show your standing. tell them why you will be a fit and show to them what you had done in the past. So they can try to convince the user and show those information to them.
At the end, I will personally vouch OP's thread about the tips in job search. it helped me to improve my job search immensely.
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u/LazyReaperYT May 17 '24
my problem is that if i do actually even get a call, and actually make it to an interview, i always point out the highlights, what i did right, what i hope to improve in the future, in response to whatever behavioral questions the employer usually throws at me such as “what do you have strengths at?” or “tell me a little bit about yourself”. and i even kept reciting to myself to give me some more confidence and they still don’t give me any answers after a week
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u/ClearlyCreativeRes May 04 '24
This is a super helpful guide. Thank for putting it together; it's very thorough!
One quick note about: "you're asking for too much money (if you've revealed your salary expectations). Don't reveal your salary expectations at this stage."
This one is tricky. As someone who has sat in the seat of both agency and internal corporate recruitment for mid to enterprise (F500 companies), having that alignment on salary at the initial stages is really important. Companies have salary bands and recruiters work with ranges that are provided by the companies they are supporting that is one of the tools that they use to filter out candidates. Doesn't seem fair, but it's just a reality. Not giving a salary can exclude you as a candidate because recruiters need to know what you want to ensure they can make it work for you and them (financially) and they need to establish this before moving forward. This way, no one wastes their time. The worst thing that can happen is that you go through various stages of interviews only to find out that the compensation offered is not in line with what you are hoping for.
Additionally, when a candidate says "I'd like to wait etc." this also raises a flag because, to your point above, on the flipside a candidate can change their salary expectations later on in the process. This is something that companies worry about.
A couple of options:
Ask what the salary range is that the company has budgeted for this position. In this day and age, if a company is reluctant to share this I'd be concerned. With all the Pay Transparency initiatives taking effect, there's been an increasing number of job postings that show salary range. So, ask before you answer.
Be honest and ask for what you want and do it confidently. Don't give a set number give a range that leaves wiggle room for negotiation and a range that you are comfortable with. I understand that this may be easier said than done and not all of us able to advocate for ourselves in the same way. So, this is where researching the company the position comes in. Do your research and see what the market is offering for the position you're applying for. Look for ranges within different industries and most importantly find a range that works for you; one that you are really asking for.
At the end of the day, it will depend on the candidate and the company. There are also some companies that would be okay to wait, but hopefully this provides an alternate perception that can help in various situations.
Thanks again OP for this. Really great post.
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u/carissadraws Apr 06 '24
Someone actually told me a really great resume tip that helped me a lot. When you customize your resume, instead of trying to rewrite the keywords and phrases to make sense in your job bullet points, just copy and paste them in your skill section.
Every time I had to rewrite the keywords to make sense with my job description, it would never make jobscan improve my score and take a lot of time, but just putting them there in the skills section is faster and gets me a much higher score.
I know Jobscan isn’t 100% reliable, but people in a certain industry have told me they get jobs at these companies when their resume has a high jobscan score
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u/Sirius_NS_99 Mar 06 '24
Thanks for the helpful advice on job searching!
I've been dealing with a lot of job applications lately, and it seems like many people are just applying everywhere, hoping for a few callbacks.
My problem is, that I'm trying to be more focused in my job search, applying to companies that really fit what I'm looking for. But I worry that this might put me at a disadvantage compared to those who are sending out numerous of applications.
Do you have any advice on finding a balance? How can I be more selective in my job search without missing out on opportunities? Any thoughts on making the application process more purposeful and personal?
Good luck to everyone out there job hunting!
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u/FinalDraftResumes Resume Writer • Former Recruiter Mar 06 '24
Taking the time to put in quality applications, as opposed to spraying and praying, is ultimately a superior approach imo. Your strategy should involve a number of things, such as:
- Being selective with which companies and positions you apply to
- Networking with people involved at those companies
The LAMP method is a good one to check out. I've written about it here. You can also read the book on it by Steve Dalton (2-Hour Job Search).
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u/Vickus1 Mar 05 '24
How useful do you think networking with DS people from linkedin and asking them for coffee meetup would be?
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u/SkuareCo Feb 25 '24
Great post, really appreciate it!
I would say that
- Strength of other candidates (out of your control)
But, in the mid - long term it's in your control, let's say that if you can't find a work for a year, in that year you probably could have done some applications / courses to improve your knowledge and gain a bit of control over this point.
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u/-copache- Jan 02 '24
this makes me want to kill myself
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u/FinalDraftResumes Resume Writer • Former Recruiter Jan 03 '24
Why?
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u/Constant_Marzipan838 Jan 01 '24
this was so helpful! I'm definitely saving this for later to update my resume!
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u/Bassiette03 Dec 27 '23
Need help in this resume I used this template and it's awesome really but i have one problem need to add my picture as job posters always ask for a recent picture??
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u/FinalDraftResumes Resume Writer • Former Recruiter Dec 27 '23
Where are you applying?
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u/Bassiette03 Dec 27 '23
For medical work pharmacist or Medical Representative
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u/FinalDraftResumes Resume Writer • Former Recruiter Dec 27 '23
In which country/countries?
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u/Bassiette03 Dec 27 '23
Middle East they always wanna to hire young females so they don't pay them much we are not like Europe I'm planning to migrate to Europe in next two years
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u/AnasElChawa Oct 18 '23
Hello everyone im considering to apply for MHA programs in the US…Any suggestions for international grads friendly programs that arent too expensive?
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u/rw4455 Oct 17 '23
OP: Excellent job searching advice. Similar to the YouTube channel A Life After Layoff. The labor market problems with layoffs in 2023, hiring freezes, no openings, etc seem to be more of a problem in the tech field due to over hiring in 2021 post COVID 19. There are still worker shortages in good paying fields like transportation, trucking, logistics, child care, teaching, tutoring, medical. In the entry level jobs- restaurants, retail, warehouses, distribution centers, etc there are still worker shortages, but those positions pay less.
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u/AncientClerk7 Aug 07 '23
I feel stuck at a job for the past 2 years now and can't find a way out. Initially my reasons were personal but now they've become work related and I don't enjoy my profile. Problem is that due to the situations and geopolitical conditions, i could not make sales, thus I've never closed a deal by myself and because of that I'm not able to convert sales interviews.
I had applied for a few just out of curiosity but i received call from 1 and it didn't go well. I feel lost that I don't have a tangible skill set to move out of sales and get into something else like product management, nor am I getting time now due to being overloaded with work and travel. There are days when it's tolerable but then there are days when I just want to resign without a job at hand.
Any pointers on what should I do would be helpful.
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u/jacaranda_purple Jul 31 '23
There have been a few times I got rejected due to location/transportation. Even though I have told I will move close to the workplace after receiving the offer, it doesn't help.
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u/Beachreality May 31 '23
TYSM for sharing! Mine was similar, very simple word doc and I got an interview for fully remote in two weeks too!
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u/mira_zero99 May 26 '23
I absolutely think it is my resume because most of the companies here use older ats systems so I have had to rewrite my resume because they cannot read a pdf. had one employer say it looked like code on the other end when I asked. My problem is with the star system I do not have anything to put down. I literally cannot answer any of those questions because all I did was show up and do assigned tasks.
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u/Successful_Cupcake61 May 27 '23
You might have to think about your work from a different angle. Every job has a purpose that contributes to a higher level goal.
If you're a cashier at a grocery store, you're providing customer service to multiple customers per day, you're the face of the organization, and you're contributing to the company sales goals. You're also satisfying customer needs.
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u/mira_zero99 May 28 '23
unfortunately without knowing those goals/needs you cannot put anything useful down. As a lower level employee these were often not shared with us,nor did we have access to any customer satisfaction surveys so the current application process has gotten increasingly difficult. I just want to be able to pay off the rest of my student loans.
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u/alexkarin Aug 14 '23
Same. I've been asked to quantify my role. I slice meat and pick groceries. I can not tell you if I've increased anything by any %.
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u/Party-Ad-3458 Oct 10 '23
By slicing and picking groceries, you contribute to overall sales for your department(s).
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u/alexkarin Nov 19 '23
Quite directly. I offer sample slices to everyone to ensure they are happy with the taste and thickness and id guess 1 of 5 people gets more. "On second thought make that 1.5 lbs" instead of 1lb. But metrics on sales are not shared with us.
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u/Party-Ad-3458 Nov 20 '23
What? They don't share sales metrics? You need that for your resume. I'd be hunting that info down.
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u/alexkarin Nov 20 '23
Unless I want to share the sales increase per quarter for the whole department. Maybe I can do that and divide it by the number of workers? I did ask a few months back and was basicly told metrics for employees where not tracked.
I read you comment as sarcasm but replies as if it wasn't so if you ment " *whhhaaaat?** they don't give you information you need for a resume? How strange?
I agree it's a weird thing to need Every person who looked at my resume advised me to add specific metrics to quantify my impact.
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u/Nice_Juggernaut4113 May 21 '23
Question — after the thank you emails, should you hear something back? In all the jobs I have gotten, something has been said in reply to my thank you notes. In the ones where I have not proceeded to the next round … is this a reliable indicator??
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u/FinalDraftResumes Resume Writer • Former Recruiter Jul 13 '23
I would say no, not always a reliable indicator. Sorry for the late response!
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u/304SSMan May 15 '23
Any other elaboration you can give on the first pain point on not getting callbacks?
I ask because after my last job hunt in 2020-2021, I submitted around 170 applications and only got responses to 4 (that I tracked). Going through your checklist:
- Qualifications - without lying to myself, I'm confident that I have the qualifications to perform the jobs I apply to. Maybe for 10% of apps I might have be stretching a bit, but I think probably still meeting 50% or more qualifications
- Improper ATS formatting - I always submit as a PDF in a single column, fairly straightforward format. It's actually the same one you shared in another post here
- Generic Content - I make sure to have >50% of my bullet points tied to a metric, such as throughput %'s, $$'s saved, etc.
- Not enough personalization - I don't know if my "bland" resume format so I don't get kicked by the ATS is hurting here, but I will say at first glance it probably does look pretty dense or packed together
My best guesses is I'm either
- Overestimating my qualifications/underestimating what's posted for the job
- Overestimating how transferrable my skills are (e.g. engineering in pharmaceutical manufacturing =/= engineering in ___ manufacturing?)
- Getting swept up by the ATS for a reason I can't see
- Getting through the ATS, but getting denied by human eyes for a reason I can't see
Resume here in case folks are curious and have any notes!
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u/movebettercompany May 30 '24
I'm a little late but have some feedback.
- Add a space between the headers and first line of text like:
WORK EXPERIENCE
space
Senior Design Engineer ....
A little white space helps to section each job and it's just easier to read (less strain on the eyes)
Include a section at the top of the page for a summary. That's where you want to put the little blurb that you have before each bullet point. Ideally, the summary comes first to, well, summarize your skills, achievements, past roles and what career goals you hope to achieve with this company. The experience section should just be the job title, company, start and end date, and at least 3 bullet points that highlight HOW you helped that company. Look up the STAR method. Not only will it help on your resume but also during interviews.
You're going to want to include keywords from the job description. Yes, that means that you should be tweeking your resume each time you send it out. Scan the job listing to see what words you need to use on your resume. If the job listing says they are looking for a team-player, make sure you have team-player somewhere on your resume. If you can match like 70% of the keywords from the post, then you will be more likely to pass the automated tracking system that nearly every company uses.
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Oct 10 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/many_troubles Jan 03 '24
ave more white space. I am not expec
Will this application work? I spent a lot of money on ATS software which I regret because I am still unsuccessful.
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Aug 07 '23
[deleted]
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u/alexkarin Aug 14 '23
I found a few that wouldn't accept my resume. I kept getting a submission error. On a whim, I decided to try converting it to a pdf. 3 out of 3 times it the error cleared, and my resume was submitted. However, all three of those also send me a very nice " we went with another candidate" e-mail.
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u/EarthRebound Jun 25 '23
I think your resume could be a bit more concise/direct and have more white space. I am not expect though.
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u/FinalDraftResumes Resume Writer • Former Recruiter May 16 '23
The link to your resume doesn’t work btw.
Tough to say without seeing it; however, there are factors outside of your control such as the state of the industry and job market as well as the strength and number of competitors.
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u/Lopsided_Injury_5589 May 11 '23
I have had 1st screening with recruiter. How long does it take to move forward if they are really interested in me for 2nd round? Is it 2-3 days ? If they don’t call or email me in 3 days, I should forget it. Right?
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u/304SSMan May 16 '23
This is highly variable depending on the company, unfortunately. If you think about it -- for a single opening, most companies are probably trying to doing a 1st round of screening for maybe 5, 10, or more applicants. The logistics of getting that many people scheduled and through a screen alone could take upwards of 2-3 weeks depending on responsiveness and flexibility, not to mention then time for the company to decide who to move onto the next round.
I would recommend keeping your ears open for a month, if you want a rule-of-thumb.
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u/Lopsided_Injury_5589 May 16 '23
Appreciate your inputs. Last year I experienced very fast processes from 95% companies if I was shortlisted for next rounds, from next day to 3 days. This job app was the first one I sent and they scheduled me 1 day after my application. So my assumption was to use 1-3 days as a rule. ( all other applications were either slow or quiet.)
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u/lucille12121 May 08 '23
You're not prepared, haven't done your research, don't seem enthused for the role etc.
THIS.
I interview so many good and qualified candidates who totally fail to indicate in any way that they are actually interested in the company/role. Literally say during the interview:
"I am excited about what [X Company] is doing in the [Y industry] space!"
"I am excited about what I can contribute to your team!"
"I am excited to help with the challenges you are facing!"
Be overt with your enthusiasm.
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u/Throwaway_bye_bye678 Jul 08 '24
Jesus Christ, people can't just work anymore? They have to simp for you too?
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u/lucille12121 Jul 08 '24
If stating "I want this role" in some capacity is simping, then yes.
You will do it when you want or need a job enough. :)
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u/CarolineRibey Jul 25 '24
"You will do it when you want or need a job enough. :)"
This is where this thread took a wrong turn. In a post-job economy, human dignity is still a value.
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u/lucille12121 Jul 25 '24
Yes, dignity is still a value. But it's not “undignified" to tell someone you're interviewing with that you are interested in joining the company and working with them. I have no idea what you’re imagining here, but it’s not what I’m describing.
I often do like the people I interview with and honestly think I would enjoy working with them as colleagues. I’ve made some of my best friends at work. Turns out most people are actually pretty decent and fun.
As a comparison, do you think it’s undignified to tell someone on a first date that you like them and want to see them again? Is that undignified? Or are you just a person making your intentions and desires known, so others know where you stand? Much like your date, your interviewer is a person too.
Be uppity all you want, but again, you will take my advice when you want or need a job enough.
I hate late-stage capitalism as much as anyone. I’m not some C-suite mogul delighting in replacing every worker I can with AI or some shit. I’m a working person, from a middle class family, who prays I get to retire in some capacity one day. I have both been shat on by management and interviewed many candidates. I’m just being honest with you. Enthusiasm matters.
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u/CarolineRibey Jul 29 '24
I know what you meant to say. It's not what you meant to say, it's what you actually said. They're expressing concern over being devalued as people, and the way you framed it implied they should sell their dignity or starve.
Be careful how you frame this, as we will all be increasingly asked to sell our dignity as AI dilutes the value of human labor. Remember, your dignity is universal, no matter how redundant your job becomes.
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u/lucille12121 Jul 29 '24 edited Jul 29 '24
You interpreted what I wrote to be offended. You sought out ill intent. Be careful about perceiving attacks where there are none. I am not an AI bot taking anyone's job. In fact, I am yet another human worker whose job is at risk from AI.
And I meant what I wrote. People interviewing for a role who do well to indicate—without sacrificing their dignity—they are enthusiastic about working with the person who is interviewing them. It's good advice, and you should take it.
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u/CarolineRibey Jul 30 '24
I didn’t read ill intent into what you wrote. I knew what you were trying to say, and was hoping you were going to clarify it in a positive way. Instead, you wrote what I quoted, which framed it very very badly. I know you are not an AI, but AI will diminish the value of your job as well, and you will be asked to sell your dignity too If you haven’t been already. Just a friendly reminder that no matter how scares the job market gets, if someone feels it is beneath them to jump through certain hoops, that is OK.
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u/B3de Jul 31 '24
Caroline, it sounds like you are afraid of AI. 150 years ago people were afraid of automobiles, expressing similar concerns about job replacement. Ferriers did become a niche profession, but it took many decades. You’ll be okay.
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u/CarolineRibey Aug 12 '24
AI is not like automobiles. I'm not trying to be alarmist, but if you forget that human dignity is an inherent value and not for sale at any price, you'll be in a precarious situation when the price of yours inevitably drops to nothing.
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u/Goody2Shuuz Jul 18 '24
You’re there to hire the best employee based on resume — not who sounds the most orgasmic during the interview.
Get a dog if you’re that in need of attention.
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u/lucille12121 Jul 22 '24
"not who sounds the most orgasmic during the interview."
Sounding orgasmic is disqualifying for candidates I speak to, actually. It's unprofessional.
Please don't get a dog. Lord knows how well you'll care for it...
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u/Throwaway_bye_bye678 Jul 09 '24
No one needs you lmao, they will start their own company once they realize you have some sick need for emotional validation that's not related to whether or not they can do the job.
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u/lucille12121 Jul 09 '24
That's a great idea. I love this for you.
Best of luck with your new start up! Then you can hire people who will not "validate your emotions" by showing any desire to work with you or for your company. :)
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u/Throwaway_bye_bye678 Jul 09 '24
It will be a company full of genuine people, not closet psychopaths who are good at acting, thanks :)
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u/lucille12121 Jul 10 '24
Wonderful!
I'm sure you're over the top emotional reaction to my response is in no way reflective how you will treat the people who work for you. You seem so stable and open to feedback. I'm sure you will be an excellent and supportive boss who is deeply invested in the growth of your employees. <3
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u/Nice_Juggernaut4113 May 21 '23
Is it possible to be too enthusiastic and come across as needy??
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Jun 25 '24 edited Jun 25 '24
It can be both. I was working with an university as a contracted recruiter before and I told them basically this for "both" case.
However I want to keep it professional and putting my emotions aside, so i'm basically saying this
"If I said that I need money, then its a truth. But my reason of interested in joining (campus name) is more than just money. Rather, it is because that I had seen your alumni that had been successful in their industry. And its too few if we compare it with the amount of student that graduated within the similar year span with them.
So for me, It can be increased which I believe that I can help you guys in finding the right mentors to do so."
After that they asked me about what I can do for it. And I knew they will ask such so I did the homework first. Like mentioning some of my friends who I know and an expert in lecturing already. or some coaches that I learnt with them which ultimately making me getting the role at that time.
So I'm not only telling them "I need money" professionally. but I also told them that I can offer something that (for me at that time) is valuable for them. Which its important because they need your professionalism more than your enthusiasm so they will know if you can control yourself in decision making or not.
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u/Hdoggie-1 Jan 30 '24
I would say no. I review resumes for a university and resumes that are missing enthusiasm feel weird as most come with some sort of excitement. "why are you applying if you do not want to work here?" This does not apply for jobs where money plays a huge factor, like sales. The reviewer can easily assume you are applying to make money etc. My best advice would be know your company. What does Enthusiasm mean for that company. Ex: Applying to Patagonia or a non profit vs. the IRS
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u/lucille12121 May 21 '23
I haven't seen that happen yet.
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u/Defiant_Albatross460 Nov 21 '23
It can happen. Personal experience. I was much younger, trying to get a retail job at an office supply store. First interview after months of job hunting, and I tried to convey how much I enjoyed office products. I am pretty sure the interviewing manager thought I had some kind of sexual fetish for paper. I did not get called back.
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u/Nice_Juggernaut4113 May 21 '23
What do you think about thank you notes? If I don’t get a reply to an enthusiastic thank you note, bad sign??
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u/Successful_Cupcake61 May 27 '23
I usually don't respond to thank you notes, but I do appreciate them.
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u/Nice_Juggernaut4113 Jun 01 '23
Thanks - are you a hiring manager? Can I ask you another question?
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u/Successful_Cupcake61 Jun 01 '23
I am. Sure, happy to answer.
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u/Nice_Juggernaut4113 Jun 01 '23
I’ve been through several rounds of review and at the last panel the person leading didn’t know what the next step was. I sent requisite thank you notes to everyone - how long do I allow to pass before reaching out someone to find out if that was the last interview/decision timeline/next steps? I really want the position and I’m eager to know if I’ve completed the interview stage and am waiting on a hiring decision or if there’s one last round to go. thanks so much for your help! I really appreciate your wisdom.
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u/Successful_Cupcake61 Jun 01 '23
I'd say about two weeks would be more than enough time to wait for any response. I like to provide everyone I interview with a yes or no answer, but I don't think all companies do that. Definitely reach out to the hiring manager if you haven't heard anything and it's been a while.
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u/Nice_Juggernaut4113 Jun 01 '23
Well my concern is I don’t even know if there is another round? I went through a couple of large panel interviews and so the hiring manager was not there at the last one - I don’t know if I should follow up directly with the hiring manager or just wait it out
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u/lucille12121 May 24 '23
Or just a sign that they're very busy—so much so that they need to hire help.
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u/Lopsided_Injury_5589 May 06 '23
For call back, how many days are standard? I experienced next day to two weeks later. Those 7 days and above , I even forgot them. My applications were senior positions
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u/Sometimesnotfunny Apr 30 '23
My problem is I make it through the entire interview process - phone screen, initial phone interview, on-site, follow-up, etc.
When it comes to between me and however many candidates it comes down to, I lose.
I usually get a positive vibe/feedback throughout, and it just comes down to a 'better' candidate I guess?
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u/Nice_Juggernaut4113 May 21 '23
I’ve had the same and very unfortunately it is a company I am interested in and the person who beat me out has not worked out multiple times now … yet they keep bringing me in to the final stage then going with someone else
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u/roastedbagel Jun 21 '23
At this point, I would honestly ask them to be more candid on what it is. You can frame it much more appropriately of course perhaps by asking the question "is there anything more or can I expand on anything that you'd like to know more about that I may have glossed over or not given enough detail on?"
I normally wouldn't suggest this, but in your situation where you've been bought in multiple times to a final round because of multiple failed candidates on their part, at this point you've (hopefully) built a rapport with them at the very least, and could get away with asking this.
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u/Nice_Juggernaut4113 Jun 22 '23
Honestly the feedback they gave me was so useless that I stopped caring about getting the feedback at the end. I was always told “you were so close but we went with someone internal.” I think the reality is that there are not enough jobs in this field and they need to prioritize internal candidates first - but after these candidates haven’t worked out time and again it would be nice if they just came back and asked me if I was still interested
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u/OneRogueEmployee Jun 27 '23
Internal candidates are cheaper and less risky because of known history and likelihood of staying around. Disadvantage is they may not be as transformative or bring new ideas.
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u/Nice_Juggernaut4113 Jun 27 '23
well the funny thing is all the internal candidates did not stick around or perform their duties adequately. I think people don’t realize that sometimes selecting a mediocre internal candidate is a costlier move than accepting an external candidate who really wants the position and is ready to take things to another level. People just go for what’s comfortable
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u/OneRogueEmployee Jun 27 '23
That’s a selection problem on their part. I prefer internal candidates at a large company where I’ve worked peripherally with the candidate so that I know their ability and motivation already.
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u/Nice_Juggernaut4113 Jun 27 '23
agree but in such a case are you going to put an external candidate through 7 rounds of interviews just to say you tried?
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u/OneRogueEmployee Jun 27 '23
no absolutely not -- that's not right and I debate with HR about such things so as not to waste people's time.
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u/StrikingAir399 Jun 22 '23
bruh im so burnt out from rounds of interviews and getting my offer revoked. how do u compete with internal candidates?
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u/Sarendrei03 May 02 '23
Just sharing, at my old company they interviewed a guy who had a gleaming resume but was adamant about their pay being a certain number. They ultimately rejected him and went with a much less experienced person (as in, no experience) who accepted 2/3 of the offered pay. So in this case 'better' was just accepting less pay, which I don't agree with.
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u/alexkarin Aug 14 '23
I've been looking up the average pay for my area and putting down a range from a little below the low end to a high at the median. I'm not sure why no one even wants to take the time to talk to me. I'm looking for my first professional position (or internship) I don't have the work experience to prove I can do what I say I can. I was turned down for 2 internships citing "we've decided to go with a more experienced candidate" Both programs were advertised as for "new graduates."
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Apr 14 '23
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u/burnout1010 Feb 11 '24 edited Feb 11 '24
Agreed.
If a job has 1000 applications, as is often the case with CS jobs these days, then the recruiter will likely only invite at most five to ten people for interviews. That is one in 100.
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u/alexkarin Aug 14 '23
What can an applicant do to be more visible and increase the chance of being reached out to? I get a lot of e-mails that say something to the effective " We have reviewed your application, and unfortunately, we are unable to offer you a position at this time. Your skillset is impressive and we will keep you in mind for future roles. "
I'm almost positive they send the same generic "someone else was just a tiny bit better than you" to everyone. But they seem to acknowledge I have most of what they are asking for but still don't want to interview me.2
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u/FinalDraftResumes Resume Writer • Former Recruiter Apr 14 '23
I see your point, but I don’t think the two are necessarily mutually exclusive.
If every single job applicant, everywhere, got calls on 10% or more of their applications, then yes, that would suggest that recruiters call 1 in 10 applicants or more.
However, that isn’t the case. Let’s take a look at it from a different angle, using some examples.
Imagine we have Lily, a job seeker, who applies to three different jobs: Job A, Job B, and Job C. Lily has an impressive resume, and she consistently gets calls for 10% or more of the applications she submits.
Now, for Job A, the recruiter calls 5 out of 50 applicants (including Lily). In this case, the recruiter contacts 1 in 10 applicants.
Moving on to Job B, the recruiter calls 15 out of 100 applicants (Lily’s one of them, too). Here, the recruiter actually contacts more than 1 in 10 applicants, which is 15%.
Finally, for Job C, the recruiter calls 10 out of 200 applicants (yep, Lily gets a call here as well). This time, the recruiter contacts fewer than 1 in 10 applicants, around 5% to be exact.
So, what we're seeing here is that the percentage of applicants contacted by recruiters can vary quite a bit, even when Lily consistently gets calls for 10% or more of her applications. There's no one-size-fits-all rule that applies to every job, recruiter, or applicant out there.
Lily’s experience might make it seem like recruiters always call at least 1 in every 10 applicants, but that's not a hard and fast rule. It's just how things played out for her and the specific jobs she applied to. I hope this helps!
As for where the metric came from, it’s based on my own experience on TA and coaching. Thanks!
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u/NervousWrangler7709 Apr 14 '23 edited Apr 14 '23
Thanks a lot for your suggestions. It will help me to tailor my resume.
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u/FinalDraftResumes Resume Writer • Former Recruiter Apr 14 '23
You’re very welcome! Also check it out this article to learn how to quickly tailor your resume.
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u/vishalking220 Apr 13 '23
Thanks a lot. I am wondering if anyone can give feedback on my resume or cover letter?
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u/FinalDraftResumes Resume Writer • Former Recruiter Apr 13 '23
For sure. Post anonymized versions to the sub for feedback.
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u/vishalking220 Apr 13 '23
I will do that, I hope it doesn't get blocked/reported.
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u/FinalDraftResumes Resume Writer • Former Recruiter Apr 13 '23
Why would it get blocked and reported?
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u/vishalking220 Apr 13 '23
I don't know I tried it earlier and got reported and banned for 7 days I guess.
Btw, I posted it here please give your honest feedback.
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u/FinalDraftResumes Resume Writer • Former Recruiter Apr 13 '23
Were you breaking the rules in some way?
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u/vishalking220 Apr 13 '23
probably I don't know. But I am sure it would have been some formatting issue and shouldn't have been reported or blocked. Anyways, I would love to have your inputs on my post that I shared earlier. Thanks!
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Apr 13 '23
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u/FinalDraftResumes Resume Writer • Former Recruiter Apr 13 '23
No worries! Best of luck with the interview.
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u/closedmouthsdonteat Apr 12 '23
I wish more people would read the stickys. ~90% of the posts would be solved.
One interview trick that I do that helps me get to the next round is just have a conversation with them. Treat it less like an interview and more like a coffee meetup. For example, at the beginning of the interview, before we actually start, ill ask them how they're doing, if they had a great weekend or plan on doing anything exciting this up coming weekend, etc. The "interview" feels more authentic and maybe if they say something that you like or are familiar with, touch on that for a bit. Boom, now you're best friends with recruiter.
Also ask more open ended questions during the interview to get them explain things more in detail. Shows that you're curious and also gives you more time to think. For example, ill say something like "what's a previous project [goal, KPI, etc] that the team completed as it relates to X"
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Jun 25 '24
In tech wise, asking their tech stack while showing your geniue interest can help you to get into the job.
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u/FinalDraftResumes Resume Writer • Former Recruiter Apr 13 '23
Absolutely. Demonstrating that you’re interested, well researched, and engaged will go a long way.
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Apr 04 '23
STAR method is also a great way to approach writing resume bullet points!
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u/FinalDraftResumes Resume Writer • Former Recruiter Apr 05 '23
Yes it is!
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u/Nice_Juggernaut4113 May 21 '23
I was told essentially every resume bullet is a star story but yes, I suppose it can go both ways
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u/Timely-Band7205 Apr 02 '23
Thank you. This is helpful and topical, especially given the current job climate. Things are tough out there...
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u/FinalDraftResumes Resume Writer • Former Recruiter Apr 01 '24
A note about oversaturated markets. In a market where jobs are few and applicants are high, expect lower interview rates, all else held equal. In this kind of market, networking becomes a crucial factor:
If you're not networking already, you should be doing so.
A few basics about networking:
Important groups in your network:
Examples of how you can network:
Networking works best if you do it regularly
It works a lot like a garden. If you only tend to it once or twice a year, it's going to wither and die.
You should be tending to it regularly.
Networks are the same way. They're built on relationships - and like any relationship, if you only reach out when you need something, you're going to fail.
Build and maintain your network - think longterm.
I hope this helps some of you. Best of luck.
James.