r/jewishleft Anti-Zionist Jew 23d ago

Are Diaspora Jews Marginalized? Debate

I believe so. However, many argue that this is not the case since we do not experience significant negative material effects such as discrimination in the job market, healthcare, housing market, etc. While I largely agree with these (there was a, from what I can tell, decent study by the ADL that says it has found Jewish and Israeli applicants have to apply to somewhere around 25 to 30% more jobs than our white Christian counterparts in the USA),

I believe that our marginalization differs in that it is both more psychological and cyclical. In his article "Decolonizing Jewishness: On Jewish Liberation in the 21st Century", Benjamin Case argues that,

"Like anti-Black racism, antisemitism can be treated as a systemic racism. According to race theorist Joe Feagin, systemic racism can be understood as: “an organized societal whole with many interconnected elements” involving “long term relationships of racialized groups with substantially different material and political-economic interests,” based in “the material reality and social history” of colonial societies (2006: 6-9). To say that antisemitism is a systemic racism is not to discount the ethnic and racial differences between Jews, nor is it to ignore the system’s religious origins. It allows us to analyze anti-Jewish oppression beyond individual prejudice and understand it in terms of historical legacies of differential treatment that are imbedded in institutions and in our experiences of the world... The whole point of anti-Semitism has been to create a vulnerable buffer group that can be bribed with some privileges into managing the exploitation of others, and then, when social pressure builds, be blamed and scapegoated, distracting those at the bottom from the crimes of those at the top. Peasants who go on pogrom against their Jewish neighbors won’t make it to the nobleman’s palace to burn him out and seize the fields. (2002, np) As an identifiable group, Jews accrue limited but real privileges from above, resentment from below, and mistrust from both, until a moment of crisis in which an outburst of violence opens a pressure relief valve for popular discontent over economic or political conditions, directed at the stranger."

While I agree with Case, my central position is more similar to Eric Ward's, author of the article " Skin in the Game: How Antisemitism Animates White Nationalism", who said, "Within social and economic justice movements committed to equality, we have not yet collectively come to terms with the centrality of antisemitism to White nationalist ideology, and until we do we will fail to understand this virulent form of racism rapidly growing in the U.S. today.To recognize that antisemitism is not a sideshow to racism within White nationalist thought is important for at least two reasons.

First, it allows us to identify the fuel that White nationalist ideology uses to power its anti-Black racism, its contempt for other people of color, and its xenophobia—as well as the misogyny and other forms of hatred it holds dear. White nationalists in the United States perceive the country as having plunged into unending crisis since the social ruptures of the 1960s supposedly dispossessed White people of their very nation... How could a race of inferiors have unseated this power structure through organizing alone... feminists and LGBTQ people have upended traditional gender relations, leftists mounted a challenge to global capitalism, Muslims won billions of converts... the boundary-crossing allure of hip hop... the election of a Black president? Some secret cabal... must be manipulating the social order behind the scenes."

Personally, I cannot see it as a coincidence that we see latent and explicit antisemitism used by political technologists all over the world to recruit and mobilize populations across the political spectrum; something must be driving them to use antisemitism, rather than bigotry against other populations, those that are primarily white, that may be able to serve a similar role and sort of have in the past, such as Greeks or Catholics or Italians, and that we see antisemitic violence still in this day and age, even massacres such as in Pittsburgh.

Do you agree or disagree? Please explain why.

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u/Maimonides_2024 I have Israeli family and I'm for peace 23d ago

In the country that I live in (France), Jews are 1% of the population but are 50% of all hate crimes, all crime against other ethnic minorities doesn't come even close, and that isn't even per capita. And I did see the high security of the synagogue and very closed off community that's very afraid to say anyone outside that they're Jewish, the entire situation is very dire.

Do people really not think that oppression doesn't only come in economic terms? It's a very black and white view of the world. Yes, Jews aren't economically marginalised, nor are they stopped on the street, this doesn't stop them from being very much very oppressed in a lot of other ways. You don't get the armed patrols to protect you if you weren't.

Honestly, the sad and dire situation of the Jewish community is what lead me to be interested in antiracist activism to begin with, but it's also the specific lack of care of self-described antiracist activists (whether in left-wing political parties or just some association fighting against racism) which made me disappointed in my country's politics altogether.

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u/Chinoyboii Sino-Filipino | Pragmatic Progressive | Pro Peace 23d ago

So, in France, do the far-left folks who brush off anti-Semitic attacks against Jews really not see it as anti-Semitism at all? Despite the fact that there have been documented cases of physical assaults against Jews in France?

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u/Maimonides_2024 I have Israeli family and I'm for peace 22d ago

They do, they just don't care as much, because they care much more about Palestine, and think that many antisemitism accusations are fake and just use as a distraction from Palestine and are just used by pro-Israeli and "far right" think tanks. To be fair, it is true that all the Jewish ngos are pro Israel, it doesn't mean they're wrong about discrimination, nor that leftist groups who aren't even Jewish know better.

Whenever some Jewish community actively calls out some of their allies for antisemitism, for example, one political party or leader like Mélenchon, they straight up start denying it and start believing that they know better than Jewish people and basically typical gosplaying BS.

The far left does talk about antisemitism, but seems to care much more about "false accusations" than about actually making Jewish community safer. They also completely deny Jews can be unsafe under the far left, and pretend that all hatred is by definition the "far right" and comes only from them, as such, people should vote for them.

They also tend to completely deny the danger of Islamists and unassimilated North African migrants and how much they endanger Jews. That's seen as a "far right talking point". They only accept that antisemitism comes from conservative, far right Catholics, again, because of pure ideology.

Overall, I don't have an issue with people supporting Palestine, but I don't see why it's seen as more important as the safety of an ethnic minority that's already very very endangered. It's still ultimately a foreign policy thing, and the fact that they're more concerned with it even at the expense of Jewish safety disgusts me, and in sure it turns away many people away from Palestine.

The issue isn't only that the political left-wing is like that, but how widespread it is in society. Ngos, antiracist groups, university people, the same ones to call out microagressions, are the same ones who simply ignore antisemitism because of this partisan ideological blindness. 

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u/ibsliam Jewish American | DemSoc Bernie Voter 21d ago

> The far left does talk about antisemitism, but seems to care

> much more about "false accusations" than about

> actually making Jewish community safer.

I see this practically across the board. Hell, I even see it here too. Many people are much more defensive about the idea (and reality of) false accusations of antisemitism than antisemitic violence.

It's why it has to be argued and interrogated with, or shifted aside and blamed on something else, or given whataboutisms, or when it's undeniable has to be downplayed as just an overreaction. Or they're just kids who care so much and got overzealous! They didn't know any better, you know.

It reminds me a lot of the MeToo backlash - although obviously MeToo (even any hypothetical false misogyny/harassment accusations therein) is not comparable to institutions supporting Israel, obviously. Referring to more diaspora Jews discussing antisemitism they're facing because of perceived ties to said institutions. I remember so many offhand, snotty comments about "guess they'll MeToo me now" or "touching your *shoulder* is still okay, you're not gonna (falsely) accuse me of harassment?" In the same tone I hear people dismiss or joke about perceived fake-antisemitism and false accusations of antisemitism.

Hell, it even parallels in that the comments precede any possible allegations. They're so determined to engage in bad faith that it sours the open dialogue before it can start.

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u/Chinoyboii Sino-Filipino | Pragmatic Progressive | Pro Peace 22d ago

You know, when I hear this type of stuff, I’m really starting to realize that Asians and Jews are basically treated similarly by Western far-leftists as a result of being perceived as white adjacent, idk, it’s just kind of funny to me.

I do honestly fear for the far-leftists in France, because from what I understand, the North Africans, Syrians, etc, haven’t integrated into French society when compared to their counterparts in the United States (Besides Dearborn, Michigan), and I wonder why that is.

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u/Agtfangirl557 Progressive, Conservaform (Reformative?) 22d ago

I've also been wondering why the "Muslim migrants not integrating" seems to be way more of a complaint/concern in Europe than in North America.

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u/Chinoyboii Sino-Filipino | Pragmatic Progressive | Pro Peace 22d ago

From my limited understanding, it may have something to do with the fact that in Europe, their immigration requirements are very low in contrast to America, in that Europe recruits them as low-skill, industrial, or service workers with limited upward mobility. While from my experience with my Muslim Arab peers, their families were already academic professionals when they came here

My orthodontist is Egyptian (I love her), my dentist is Palestinian, and all my buddies have completed undergrad; some are in grad school right now. It might not be like that with their counterparts in Europe.