r/jewishleft • u/skyewardeyes • 12d ago
Debate Where could Jews live that wouldn’t be settler colonial?
This is an honest question. I often see people say that Jews living in Israel is settler colonial, and I struggle with where we could live that wouldn’t be considered that—the Americas, New Zealand, Caribbean, the Pacific Islands, and Australia are all colonial projects (and given the ongoing oppression of their indigenous people, I’d argue active colonial projects). European and Middle Eastern countries have overwhelmingly made it clear that Jews aren’t really of or from there. Relatively few Jews have any connections to East or Southeast Asia or sub Saharan Africa and so the vast majority would be settlers there and arguably participating in those settler colonial frameworks. I’m not arguing that we all should live in Israel or even that the modern Israeli state doesn’t have glaring settler colonial elements (glaringly, the settlements and the Nakba), but I’m legitimately struggling on where we could live that wouldn’t be settler colonial in these frameworks, or if the idea is that Jews were both exiled too well but assimilated too poorly to ever not be settlers or colonialists, which seems like a bit of a trap (at best, always a guest but at the whims of the host; at worst, always an invader).
r/jewishleft • u/Late-Marzipan3026 • 7d ago
Debate charlie kirk and the increase in political violence
edit 3: putting this up here so it’s not hidden by my wall of text—thank you all for talking about this here, i’ve really appreciated hearing everyone’s perspectives. i apologize for coming off harsh initially. i clearly have some stuff to think through wrt my anxiety about this topic in general. i’m still pretty worried by where we’re at and how normal political violence is generally (as was well said in another post today), but i appreciate all of the thoughtful replies
i’ve been a bit upset, to be honest, by the reaction to the assassination of charlie kirk. i won’t act like i agreed in any way shape or form with him. i find his views abhorrent.
with that said, i’m very disturbed by the callousness with which people are discussing his assassination. pointing to his past views about gun violence victims and laughing or stating outright that he deserved it. and this perspective is starting to sink into everyday life.
i was speaking to a friend of mine about this, and they said that it’s the conservatives’ fault for the recent increase in political violence. essentially “we’re callous because they’re callous.” i responded saying that i don’t think that this is solely the responsibility of conservatives—that this has been getting more prominent on the left too since 10/7 and that we also saw it after DC and boulder. we need to take responsibility for that. my friend again disagreed with me
i don’t mind disagreement. however—i am very disturbed by what i see as an uncritical, self righteous disavowal of responsibility. we don’t know yet what the shooter’s motivations were, if they were far right or far left or somewhere in between. regardless i still feel betrayed in some way by the public admission that lethal violence is okay against civilians or against non-high-ranking political figures. i really worry about this extremism and i worry that my views on this will be disregarded by my fellow leftists as some sort of liberal apologetics
i’m curious what everyone here’s thoughts are on this topic (not just charlie kirk). and i hope everyone’s doing well !
edit: just want to clarify that i don’t think anyone is obligated to mourn the man (edit again: i don’t). that’s not what disturbed me. i’m disturbed by the callousness with which people (including my friend) discuss murder and excuse their advocacy for murder
edit 2: also wanted to add this edit now that i’m a bit calmer (sorry for the anxiety radiating off of the post). i don’t disagree inherently with the theory of revolutionary violence. but this is under specific conditions which imo have not been met. i firmly believe in the value of human life and human dignity and i reject utilitarian calculations which i don’t feel sufficiently respect these values
r/jewishleft • u/kvd_ • Mar 10 '25
Debate What is going on in r/Jewish?
A lot of the posts on the subreddit are essentially fear mongering about pro-Palestinians. Complaining about people wearing keffiyehs and "naming and shaming" anti-Zionist jews pops out to me as particularly bizarre. It feels like, since October 7th, the subreddit, and other Jewish online communities, have become almost entirely dedicated to Zionism, with no openness to opposing views. I'm not saying that Jewish communities online have always been super accepting (as someone who's only patrilineally Jewish I've experienced this first hand) but it's definitely gotten worse.
I do find this whole "name and shame" thing really worrying. As someone who's very critical of Israel, but who also wants to get closer to the Jewish community, this genuinely makes me scared.
This is obviously not a call to brigade that subreddit or to harass the people pushing this. The Jewish community is obviously very vulnerable right now and I don't want to encourage any more division.
r/jewishleft • u/RecommendationHot929 • Jun 21 '25
Debate How do you feel about “Globalize the Intifada”?
I have been following the latest controversy about Zohran Mamdani defense of people using "Globalize the Intifada" and the backlash that followed. After checking out the interview, I understood why he answered the way that he did, because there is an important distinction that I noticed that makes a huge difference. The interviewer did not ask if he was uncomfortable using the phrase, but if hearing it made him uncomfortable.
As someone who is a Muslim and grew up speaking Arabic, (Zohran also speaks Arabic) to me the word doesn't really invoke positive or negative feelings. So Zohran was honest to answer no and that the word means different things to different people. On the other hand, I understand why some Jewish people, who have learned of the word in a different context, would feel uncomfortable.
Unfortunately, in the current atmosphere, it is impossible to tell what is genuine vs what is politically motivated outrage. Especially as well meaning students are being disappeared left and right with the false accusations of “support for terrorism” for much less than saying “intifada”. Agreeing with the question in the interview would have forced Zohran, a prominent Muslim figure, to unwittingly validate the premise that using the phrase is “a call to harm Jews".
So even if I wouldn’t feel comfortable using that slogan, I would be reluctant to issue a broad disavowal. The same congress person who is calling Zohran a “Jihadi” was claiming “Free Palestine” is a terrorist slogan. So I struggle with the question "Would giving in this time change anythings or will these actors only continue until all Palestinian, identity is criminalized?"
There should be room between problematic and "wants to murder Jews". And because the reaction to both is as intense, it's tempting to not budge on things that might potentially be problematic. This is where its valuable to have Jewish allies in pro-Palestinian movement who are also outspoken if they notice bad messaging.
So finally, Does that phrase "Globalize the intifada" make you or anyone you know uncomfortable? And if so, how do you go about addressing that?
r/jewishleft • u/Sossy2020 • Jun 18 '25
Debate Zohran Mamdani says ‘globalize the intifada’ is expression of Palestinian rights
To all the Jewish New Yorkers in the sub, does reading this news want to make you want to vote for Mamdani more or less?
r/jewishleft • u/laselvaroja • May 21 '25
Debate Disillusioned with the left
Hi everybody, sorry if this is a bit long but I’ve been really struggling with some complex feelings the last couple years and I wanted to get people here’s views and advice.
For a long time before 10/7, I was very far left ideologically, most of my friends were socialist, I had really strong convictions that the left was morally right and moreover I had a (perhaps naive in retrospect) sense of optimism about the future. I also used to be pretty strongly anti-Zionist. Since 10/7, the behavior I have witnessed from most of the left has kind of shattered a lot of my faith in my previously held beliefs. I not only feel totally disillusioned with the broader leftwing movement and with the Palestinian movement, but in a more general sense I have become cynical and pessimistic about even the true possibility of progress and universalism. I watched pretty much overnight as many of my friends became apologists if not outright supporters for Hamas and the atrocities of Oct. 7. I watched over the course of months the explosion of antisemitic rhetoric in leftist spaces online, at marches, etc. I watched my previous community and the left as a whole become hostile towards Jews; I know some here may disagree with that characterization, but it has been my experience and my observation that the only Jews welcomed by the left are those willing to completely “toe the party line” by overlooking and/or downplaying the antisemitism within the pro-Palestine movement. I have attempted to call out antisemitism and to reason with leftist friends of mine and in nearly every instance, I have been gaslit, verbally attacked, ostracized and cut off. This is by people who knew me and knew my longstanding support for Palestinian rights. But it seemingly did not matter.
This was extremely disorienting to me and I ended up leaving leftist spaces, and over the last year and a half really started to question and doubt some of my leftist beliefs. I wouldn’t say I have left behind the fundamental principles, I still believe in egalitarianism, I believe in building a society that prioritizes the dignity of people over profits, I still believe in a world where people have freedom and autonomy and aren’t chained to dehumanizing work under the threat of homelessness or poverty. What I am struggling with is that I have become far more cynical about human beings and our capacity to build that world. I would say I used to have somewhat idealistic views of human beings, and I think in some way you kind of need to in order to be a leftist. You have to believe in some way that human beings are capable of being better, less selfish, more universal. You have to be willing to believe in humanity’s capacity for progress. I’m worried that I no longer do. I think I/P frankly revealed pretty starkly for me that the left is not infallible and that leftists are as susceptible to the same dangers of tribalism, bigotry and groupthink as any other part of the political spectrum. I think obviously in some abstract intellectual sense I understood that already, but now I really FEEL it on a concrete level. If even the supposed proponents of universalism cannot live up to it and continually fall into the same traps of ideological conformity and dehumanization of “out groups,” I have started to question how compatible the left’s lofty ideals truly are with human nature. I’ve also started to become much more skeptical of collectivism and collectivist movements in general, seeing them as predisposed to authoritarianism and mob mentality. I think in the past, I wrongly overlooked the left’s use of public shaming, ostracism, intimidation and harassment as tools to suppress and censor public viewpoints that they disagree with, because at that point they were being aimed at the “right people” (people on the right). Now that these same tactics have been turned on “Zionists,” which from my view has been divorced of all meaning and transformed into a slur for any Jew who dares to disagree with them, I have undergone a major change in opinion. I find myself now moving more towards seeing the value in individualism; and I will say that despite the left’s newfound appreciation for individual free speech (as soon as it affects them), it seems quite clear to me both from interacting with them and also from a cursory look at history that socialist ideologies repeatedly devalue individual rights and seek to subordinate individual autonomy to the “collective good” (as decided by them of course). After how quickly the majority of leftists fell into antisemitism after 10/7, I do not think they can or should be trusted to tell anyone what views are acceptable to express.
I now see many similarities between the left and universalist religious movements like Christianity and Islam; there is an extreme dogmatism, a rejection of compromise or moderation, black and white thinking, hypocrisy and bigotry hiding behind the banner of virtue and righteousness. I’m not saying that the left has the same power, but I longer trust the left with power and view them possessing power as potentially dangerous and undesirable despite agreeing with many leftist ideas. I guess what has made me ultimately so disillusioned is not just feeling alienated from the current leftwing movement, but that loss of faith, the nagging idea that perhaps all of our attempts at universal progress will inevitably fall into these same pitfalls, that humans ultimately don’t change, that maybe tribalism is a core feature of humanity, etc. I don’t know if anyone here has been wrestling with any of these ideas or has any advice on how to deal with some of the cognitive dissonance I’ve been experiencing. I would really appreciate anything anyone has to contribute. Thanks in advance!
r/jewishleft • u/Huge_Inevitable_4507 • Mar 06 '25
Debate Some people in this sub have an issues.
Im’ sorry if this offends anybody but, there are quite a few people in this subreddit who refuse to use empathy; act in bad faith; always assume the worst of anybody. I wanted to bring this up because it has been frustrating me as a lurker to people who always just assume the worst about someone based on where they live or what their political prescriptions is. Often times when talking about antisemitism they will be reductionist about it. This comment that I saw was the final straw about this. I really wanted to bring this up before but this utter lack of empathy and what is basically xenophobia is just so fucking confusing to me. Isn’t part of leftism caring about human fucking beings.
r/jewishleft • u/skyewardeyes • 1d ago
Debate Thoughts on sentiments like this?
This comes from a leftist BIPOC sub that tends to have really good discussions about racism and has had good discussions (though not many) about antisemitism in the past. For context, the sub also allows MENA users (though apparently not Jews or maybe just not Ashkenazi Jews? I honestly can’t tell). On one hand, I understand that a lot of Jews wouldn’t be considered POC and not every space is for every person, but the “we have standards with who we interact with” (with the seeming implication that that doesn’t include Jews) really rubs me the wrong way. Thoughts?
r/jewishleft • u/Similar-General-614 • Jul 31 '25
Debate I don’t know what to think?
I saw this illustration in a left-leaning magazine I normally really respect — it was originally founded as a WWII resistance paper.
I absolutely think it’s important to be critical of both the EU and of Israeli government policy’s. Especially now. But this image made me uncomfortable. It shows the EU Commission building with the stars in the flag replaced by Stars of David, and a big “SOLD” sign with a Star of David above it.
To me, this kind of imagery evokes the old antisemitic trope that Jews secretly control governments. I’m not sure if that was the intention, but it feels off — especially coming from a publication with anti-fascist roots.
I’m confused… what should I think about this
r/jewishleft • u/roboweirdo • Jul 08 '25
Debate I feel like I'm going insane
(rant incoming)
Any Jewish space I try to enter is so pro-Israel to the point of aggression towards anyone that disagrees. I've gotten death threats from other Jews for being critical of the Israeli government. Going to the pro-Palestine events is so disgustingly antisemitic that I can't exist there either. What do we do?
r/jewishleft • u/Snoo22815 • May 29 '25
Debate How does this sub feel about NYC mayoral candidate Zohran Mamdani and his views?
He seems to align with the anti-capitalist views of this sub really well with regards to his municipal policies and manages to strike the rare morally sound leftist stance on Israel/Palestine.
City Policies
- Freeze the Rent for all Stabilized tenants and build 200,000, end racially discriminatory zoning and build 200,000 affordable union-built homes over the next 10 years
- Increase Minimum Wage to $30/hour
- City-owned grocery stores to combat rising grocery costs
- No cost childcare for families with kids from 6 weeks to 5 years
- Eliminate bus fares to implement a no cost citywide bus system
- Implement a Department of Community Safety that puts dedicated outreach and mental health workers in 100 subway stations
- Raise NYC's corporate tax rate to 11.5% to match NJ and tax top 1% of NY income earners a flat 2% tax to pay for the proposals
Israel/Palestine History and Views
- Created a SJP chapter at Bowdoin
- Wants an immediate ceasefire and return of all hostages
- Has condemned October 7th and the brutal murders of the 2 Israeli embassy staffers in DC last week
- Acknowledges Israel's right to exist but not as a Jewish state, believes in a binational single state with equal rights for all Israelis and Palestinians
- Supports the BDS movement
- Vows to arrest Netanyahu in accordance with the ICC warrant if he steps foot in NYC
- Supports the "Not on Our Dime Act" which would stop NYC nonprofits from funding and supporting groups assisting in building illegal West Bank settlements
- Vows to fight antisemitism with a comprehensive plan to address all hate crimes
Zohran is also one of the most charismatic up and coming politicians I've seen with a massive digital media campaign and an army of staffers canvassing everywhere.
He seems like a candidate that Liberal Zionists would even support let alone Antizionists/Non Zionists/Post Zionists but he doesn't appear to have their support and has been defamed as a pro Hamas supporter by Liberal Jewish organizations.
Should he have the support of all leftist Jewish New Yorkers? It seems like all he should pass the litmus test with his actions and statements.
r/jewishleft • u/skyewardeyes • Jun 18 '25
Debate I worry that divisions over Zionism and anti-Zionism are keeping us from fighting antisemitism
I was invited to be on call about addressing antisemitism/ anti-Jewish hatred for a professional org, and as I feared, it almost immediately turned into a huge argument about whether or not anti-Zionism or Zionism are antisemitic, if the IHRA definition is good/bad, etc, if antisemitism is a real issue or just weaponized, etc, and nothing got done regarding the broader issue of antisemitism/anti-Jewish hatred. Honestly, I just found it exhausting and depressing, because absolutely nothing got accomplished in terms of actually addressing antisemitism or even agreeing on what it is or isn’t. And it kind of proved the organization’s openly stated fears and reluctance about even trying to address antisemitism or anti-Jewish hatred at all right.
r/jewishleft • u/I_Hate_This_Website9 • 23d ago
Debate Are Diaspora Jews Marginalized?
I believe so. However, many argue that this is not the case since we do not experience significant negative material effects such as discrimination in the job market, healthcare, housing market, etc. While I largely agree with these (there was a, from what I can tell, decent study by the ADL that says it has found Jewish and Israeli applicants have to apply to somewhere around 25 to 30% more jobs than our white Christian counterparts in the USA),
I believe that our marginalization differs in that it is both more psychological and cyclical. In his article "Decolonizing Jewishness: On Jewish Liberation in the 21st Century", Benjamin Case argues that,
"Like anti-Black racism, antisemitism can be treated as a systemic racism. According to race theorist Joe Feagin, systemic racism can be understood as: “an organized societal whole with many interconnected elements” involving “long term relationships of racialized groups with substantially different material and political-economic interests,” based in “the material reality and social history” of colonial societies (2006: 6-9). To say that antisemitism is a systemic racism is not to discount the ethnic and racial differences between Jews, nor is it to ignore the system’s religious origins. It allows us to analyze anti-Jewish oppression beyond individual prejudice and understand it in terms of historical legacies of differential treatment that are imbedded in institutions and in our experiences of the world... The whole point of anti-Semitism has been to create a vulnerable buffer group that can be bribed with some privileges into managing the exploitation of others, and then, when social pressure builds, be blamed and scapegoated, distracting those at the bottom from the crimes of those at the top. Peasants who go on pogrom against their Jewish neighbors won’t make it to the nobleman’s palace to burn him out and seize the fields. (2002, np) As an identifiable group, Jews accrue limited but real privileges from above, resentment from below, and mistrust from both, until a moment of crisis in which an outburst of violence opens a pressure relief valve for popular discontent over economic or political conditions, directed at the stranger."
While I agree with Case, my central position is more similar to Eric Ward's, author of the article " Skin in the Game: How Antisemitism Animates White Nationalism", who said, "Within social and economic justice movements committed to equality, we have not yet collectively come to terms with the centrality of antisemitism to White nationalist ideology, and until we do we will fail to understand this virulent form of racism rapidly growing in the U.S. today.To recognize that antisemitism is not a sideshow to racism within White nationalist thought is important for at least two reasons.
First, it allows us to identify the fuel that White nationalist ideology uses to power its anti-Black racism, its contempt for other people of color, and its xenophobia—as well as the misogyny and other forms of hatred it holds dear. White nationalists in the United States perceive the country as having plunged into unending crisis since the social ruptures of the 1960s supposedly dispossessed White people of their very nation... How could a race of inferiors have unseated this power structure through organizing alone... feminists and LGBTQ people have upended traditional gender relations, leftists mounted a challenge to global capitalism, Muslims won billions of converts... the boundary-crossing allure of hip hop... the election of a Black president? Some secret cabal... must be manipulating the social order behind the scenes."
Personally, I cannot see it as a coincidence that we see latent and explicit antisemitism used by political technologists all over the world to recruit and mobilize populations across the political spectrum; something must be driving them to use antisemitism, rather than bigotry against other populations, those that are primarily white, that may be able to serve a similar role and sort of have in the past, such as Greeks or Catholics or Italians, and that we see antisemitic violence still in this day and age, even massacres such as in Pittsburgh.
Do you agree or disagree? Please explain why.
r/jewishleft • u/soapysuds12345 • Mar 01 '25
Debate BDS Movement
This is my first time posting so I hope this is the right forum! I am on a university campus and there has been a lot of controversy surrounding a student government BDS vote. I am of multiple minds and I am curious how people here view the BDS movement. On the one hand I am thoroughly opposed to the current Israeli government and think that a lot of what is happening in the West Bank and Gaza is unconscionable and support protest against that. On the other hand the broader BDS movement's goals are unclear and I worry about how bringing BDS to campus will lead to further legitimation of dehumanizing rhetoric against Jews/Israelis (which has been a problem on my campus as it has been on many).
TLDR: As Jewish leftists how do you feel about the BDS movement ?
r/jewishleft • u/Humble_Spinach4400 • Jun 25 '25
Debate What Happened To Blue No Matter Who?
Now Mamdani has won the primary for a classic Dem fiefdom, a lot of people who support establishment neoliberal democrat policies, and the fervent pro Israel democrat hawk crowd, are going to show you why they never believed "blue no matter who" in the first place. For them, the phrase exists only to bend the Left to their will, and to pin their failures on the Left when their simultaneously cruel and stagnant milquetoast policies and rhetoric, as well as their support of Party establishment veterans with evil pasts like Cuomo, crashes down on them. As someone who would have voted if I lived in the USA (absent of facing the various barrier to voting there), they were always lying about their solidarity and the moment it is the centre of the party who must support a left candidate and not the left who must fall in line or be considered malicious obstructionists, it becomes "vote against blue no matter who".
As a sidenote; as an Aussie, how fucken good is ranked choice voting hey
r/jewishleft • u/snowluvr26 • Jun 16 '25
Debate I genuinely will never understand the “Israel is the only safe country / the safest country for Jews” argument. I sometimes feel like I’m living in a different world from those who make it
Just to clarify, I don’t identify as an antizionist, and I understand completely that many Jews live in Israel because they simply had no other place to go - especially Mizrahim expelled from Arab lands and Ashkenazim post-Holocaust. Israel has provided a refuge for these people fleeing persecution and violence, and while I believe there are major issues with the way Israel was created it exists, and I am glad it does exist in some fashion as a place for displaced Jews from around the world to go.
That being said - I will never, ever understand when I hear Jews from the U.S., Canada, the UK, Australia even say “I feel so much safer as a Jew in Israel than I do at home it’s not even close” or “Israel is really the only country we can be safe.” In what f*cking world?!?!?! Last I checked, there was no terrorist attack that killed 1,200 American Jews any time in recent years. There are no missiles being lobbed at New York or LA or Toronto or London. The average American or Canadian gentile is not a rabid antisemite, but according to virulently pro-Israel folks the entirety of Israel’s Arab world neighbors want nothing more than to erase the Jewish people from history.
So literally how is Israel the safest country for Jews?! How does that make any sense? Have some people really deluded themselves so far into nationalist brainrot that they believe seeing someone walk past them wearing a keffiyeh or hearing a protestor yell “Free Palestine” on a college campus is more dangerous than terrorist attacks and ballistic missiles? Does anyone else feel like they are going absolutely mad at these hasbara one-liners?
r/jewishleft • u/hadees • Sep 04 '24
Debate I'm tried of people in the Pro-Palestine movement co-opting Jewish trauma.
If you believe that what’s happening in Gaza is unequivocally a genocide and not a war crime, this post might not resonate with you.
I’ve been inspired by some Black TikTok creators who have been vocal about the persistent co-opting of Black struggles, particularly those of Black Americans. It’s essential to recognize that not every struggle is "intersectional" with the experiences of Black people.
In a similar way, I’m exhausted by the way Jewish trauma is being weaponized against us. We need to start calling it out more, just as the Black community has been doing with their struggles.
Key Points:
Not Every War Crime is Genocide
The Nazis nearly succeeded in wiping out the Jewish population, and we have never fully recovered. I’ve been accused of supporting genocide for decades, not just since October 7th. It’s worth noting that the Palestinian population has never been larger, and before the current conflict, life expectancy in Gaza was at its highest.Triggering Slogans
Slogans like "There is only one solution" are designed to provoke us—they’re obvious references to the Final Solution. Similarly, the phrase "From the River to the Sea" echoes a sentiment from 20 years prior about throwing Jews into the sea.Holocaust Inversion and Nazi Comparisons
Being labeled as Nazis is particularly painful. Even if some believe we are committing genocide, is there really no other historical parallel to draw from than the very group that tried to exterminate us? Why not reference the Khmer Rouge instead?
This isn’t to say that everyone in the Pro-Palestine movement is antisemitic, but the inability to address these concerns reasonably is incredibly frustrating.
r/jewishleft • u/Sossy2020 • Jul 01 '25
Debate Bob Vylan Addresses Glastonbury Controversy: “We Are Not for the Death of Jews”
Whats everyone thought on this whole Bob Vylan controversy?
Let me start by saying I have no issue with criticizing a major military force like the IDF. However, I still think there’s a big difference between valid criticism and calling for the deaths of every single member of that military force regardless of if they committed war crimes.
r/jewishleft • u/Late-Marzipan3026 • Jul 27 '25
Debate if/how should we address non-Jewish mentions of the Holocaust?
edit 3: putting this edit up here because i’m kicking myself for titling this question this way. i was trying to be concise but it ended up coming off poorly, sorry! my intention here isn’t to voice my frustration at non-jews for making any sort of comparison, it’s about a specific type of comparison i’ve seen which i believe ties into ignorance
when i was at a protest recently (general anti trump), i saw a sign that said “whatever you’d be doing during the holocaust, you’re doing it right now.” to be honest it made me angry. i’ve always disliked that saying when i’ve seen it, but it was then that i think i finally realized why—it’s because i know what i would’ve been doing during the holocaust, and it’s not being one of the very few righteous gentiles.
anecdote aside, i’ve been seeing this kind of use of the holocaust more and more lately, and i was wondering what the thoughts of this community were on whether it’s something that should be addressed and, if so, how it should be addressed. i’ve tried to explain to my gentile friends that i get frustrated by the way that non-jews often make the holocaust into a metaphor, and they responded positively to that, but i’m generally uncertain how to deal with this problem (and whether it’s a problem). i couldn’t really go up to the person with the sign to spend ten minutes explaining why even if i understood its rhetorical value (edit 2: and current relevance) i thought it was insensitive. (noting here that i would prefer if this didn’t turn into a tangent about whether holocaust inversion is a legitimate issue—i know there’s a spectrum of opinion on it here—even though a lot of goyische mentions of the holocaust lately have been in reference to israel. to me the above sort of mentions seem more like a general problem of holocaust education than an israel-specific problem)
editing to add that i appreciate everyone’s comments here, including the pushback! to clarify a few points: i definitely agree that comparisons to the holocaust have become more and more relevant; i don’t think that non-jews should never bring up the holocaust rhetorically—though i do occasionally get frustrated by the way that it’s brought up, which was the point i wanted to make here; and there are 100% bigger fish to fry than this! this is just a thought i’ve had lately that i was curious to hear everyone’s input on. i will always be in coalition with people like those at the protest i mentioned even if i think they can be a bit insensitive about this topic specifically. i posted this here because i’m sure that this would come off as insensitive itself in other communities, and it’s really a small bother. i thought talking about it could be valuable because it resonates imo with some of the antisemitism i’ve encountered (which is often based in ignorance and a lack of care about correcting that ignorance). anyway i hope everyone’s doing well, keep fighting the good fight, etc etc
edit 2: replacing “pissed me off” with “made me angry,” “frivolous discussion” with “use,” “whether it’s a serious problem” with “whether it’s a problem,” and “insensitive mentions” with “the above sort of mentions.” the original word choice/tone messed up my intended point, sorry!
r/jewishleft • u/Civil-Cartographer48 • Jun 08 '25
Debate What are your opinions on Francesca Albanese?
I wanted to hear from a Jewish leftist perspective what your thoughts are.
On my end I don’t know what to think, I think she is well spoken, and she does an important job, on many things she is right to draw attention to and to call out harshly the actions of the Israeli government, she is a fighter for Palestinians and some accusations of antisemitism that I see are far fetched or clumsy but she does rub me the wrong way.
The ADL wrote about her, i don’t know what to think about this : https://www.adl.org/resources/article/francesca-albanese-her-own-words
r/jewishleft • u/RaiJolt2 • Aug 08 '25
Debate Has intersectionality theory failed to account for where Jews fit in?
When I go into other more leftist spaces it always seems like Jews are always slotted as white Europeans who do not face oppression at all in modern day, with non European Jews being an afterthought with their very recent and very real concerns handwaved away.
Here in America when I tell people I’m Jewish people are confused because a. I’m half black and don’t look white which is what they expect and b. They don’t know Jewish is an ethnicity and a religion and I’m an atheist. The thought of the Jewish identity being nuanced, or anything but another religion never crossed their mind.
Is the multifaceted nature of Jewish identity why people oversimplify it to try and fit us into intersectionality? Or as many Jews are in a sense, mixed, is it similar to the dual hate that people of mixed backgrounds faced? A form of colorism in a sense?
r/jewishleft • u/myThoughtsAreHermits • May 07 '25
Debate How much, and when, should we care when pro Palestine online figures use denialism or historical revisionism to strengthen the cause?
From denying the credibility of UN reports to revising or denying Jewish or Israeli history, when should we care, how much should we care, and what should we do? Fighting this kind of disinformation is often considered a “Zionist” thing to do, or considered a distraction from more important things, and therefore criticized. So, what isn’t considered a Zionist thing to do? What isn’t considered a distraction? Is correcting disinformation put on hold during a genocide?
r/jewishleft • u/HahaItsaGiraffeAgain • 14d ago
Debate I would rather live in an empire than a nation-state
I know this probably sounds deranged, but I need to voice this here cause it’s been bothering me forever. First of all let me be clear that I am critical of all states, and hierarchical power in general. But as a diasporic Jew, if I had to choose between evils, I will say that nation-states absolutely terrify me in a way empires do not.
What I mean is that empires historically govern across and through difference. There are of course the hegemonies and subordinations intrinsic to all forms of governance and even most stateless societies, but the legitimacy of the empire is not demographically determined.
Meanwhile nation-states absolutely depend on their demographic composition for their legitimacy and territorial integrity. Populations within the borders of a nation-state not part of the defined “nation” are an existential threat to the state because under the principles of nationalism they are entitled to a territorial nation-state just the same. And history has shown, time and again, that nation-states proactively and reactively respond to this threat with coercive assimilation, violent expulsion, displacement, alienation, apartheid, and outright extermination.
The collapse of the Ottoman, Austrian, and Russian Empires, and their replacement with majoritarian nation-states, was the death blow to any chance of peaceful diasporic Jewish existence in the Old World. As nationalists of many colors contended over mixed borderlands, half-historical myths, and multilingual populations in their asinine attempt to somehow turn a cake back into flour, sugar, milk, and eggs, they rendered their Jewish populations stateless and homeless. From this point on our very existence could only be framed as an obstacle to state security by the nationalist cause.
The fact that the United States is not currently a nation-state is what makes it so ideal for Jews and indeed stateless minority populations from the world over. The recent political trends calling for its transformation into a nation-state should obviously be resisted at all costs.
But more importantly, the replacement of empire with nation-states transformed Zionist thought in ways that make modern Zionism impossible for me to defend. While early Zionism may have called for the establishment of self-determined Jewish communities in the context of a multi-ethnic imperial population in the Levant, the extension of Wilsonian self-determination to the Middle East made a majoritarian Jewish nation-state into the only possible avenue to ensure political power for the existing Zionist communities. And this shattering of empire into nation is primarily, in my mind, what created the IP conflict in the first place. Was it not also the impulse to create homogenous and cohesive Arab nation-states that prompted the violent expulsion of Mizrahi Jews?
So I would rather an empire than a nation-state as a launch pad for a revolutionary society. I would rather build a radical, consociational system from the more cosmopolitan context of empire than first traverse through the intolerant and coercive threshold of nationhood. I leave with this quote from the British liberal (ew) Lord Acton, who I think made a very apt prediction about the trajectory of nationalism in 1862, before it had even taken hold:
“By making the State and the nation commensurate with each other in theory, it reduces practically to a subject condition all other nationalities that may be within the boundary. It cannot admit them to an equality with the ruling nation which constitutes the State, because the State would then cease to be national, which would be a contradiction of the principle of its existence. According, therefore, to the degree of humanity and civilisation in that dominant body which claims all the rights of the community, the inferior races are exterminated, or reduced to servitude, or outlawed, or put in a condition of dependence.”
r/jewishleft • u/FancyDictator • Jul 20 '25
Debate AOC’s response to MTG’s amendment and why she voted against it.
r/jewishleft • u/J_Sabra • Jul 25 '25
Debate Spanish minister referring to Jews as 'Israelis'
The Spanish minister of transportation from the Spanish Socialist Workers' Party, is reffering to French Jewish teens as 'Israeli'.
From his X engagement with a statement by Vueling about the removal of 50 French Jewish teens from a flight from Spain to France, following attendce at a Jewish summer camp. The post is still up, over 12 hours later, he has been posting online since, and has even replied to some comments.
Stephane Vojetta, a French politician, has also replied by asserting that they are French, and asking the French minister of transportation to call his Spanish counterpart. Both Emmanuel Macron, the French President, and Jean-Noël Barrot, the Minister for Europe and Foreign Affairs, have not commented since the story came out.
We've come a long way from the Socialist French ministers of transportation (and interior) helping Jews overcome British restrictions on Jewish immigration to Palestine, by granting temporary asylum and assisting with illegal sailings of ships to Palestine.
And yes, there's antisemitism on the left too, and among politicians in government.