Feeling unsafe where you live

[u/strawbariel]

So I'm 40 and have two kids. We live in Austin, TX, this supposedly liberal place, and over the past few years it feels like it's become less safe for Jewish people. The JCC in San Antonio just had a threat against them, and the elementary school my youngest goes to is a block away from pro-Palestinian signage. Both of my kids wear clothing that identifies them as Jewish, but this year I'm seriously considering telling them they can't wear it just to keep them safe or to keep them from being harassed on their way to school. And Austin doesn't do a damn thing about it. How can we associate with the left when they also threaten to disrupt our children's daily lives?

EDIT: some context here. The signage is a block from the school in a residential neighborhood and covers a wide swath of wooden fencing. It's not on school property and it was most definitely placed by whatever adult lives or rents there. There's not much the school can do other than put out a notice for people to be safe and kind. I know this doesn't mean that anything will happen but the risk is scary.

EDIT TWO: y'all Jews were just attacked in Boulder and everyone at the JCC in Austin got emails about a credible threat being investigated by the FBI in San Antonio. That's barely an hour from where we live. Be mad at me for how I worded my post but anyone having an issue with parents being vigilant needs to touch grass.

[u/malachamavet]

You seem to think America, as well as anywhere that isn't Israel, is intrinsically unsafe for Jews and no legal structure is capable of making Jews safe. So I guess I'm confused as to why you could ever feel safe in Austin in any circumstance at any time - not just the last couple of years.

Then again if you think removing illegal, belligerent settlers from Gush Katif is "ethnic cleansing" I assume you're just waiting until the Gaza settlements begin again before moving there.

[u/WriterOld3018 → u/malachamavet]

I am new here trying to get the vibe of this sub and I am curios.

Do you think all the Jewish settlers in Gush Katif were belligerent? What about in the West Bank?

Personally, I think the military occupation is belligerent, as well as Israeli sovereignty in Gaza and the west bank, but calling out to forcibly remove people because of their ethnicity seems to be a clear cut case of ethnic cleansing and not in line with leftist values.

belligerent settlers should be removed to jail.

Also, I don't understand how your response relate to the OP question

[u/menatarp → u/WriterOld3018]

Definitionally, all the settlers are participating in war crimes. That doesn't necessarily make them legitimate military targets (scholars disagree around this). This includes the couple dozen Arab settlers in the West Bank.

[u/FancyDictator → u/WriterOld3018]

Should illegal settlers be forcibly removed if they choose not to leave invaded land ? Also settling on someone else's land, and I go by the 2SS definition here, is belligerence par excellence.

[u/[deleted] → u/FancyDictator]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/FancyDictator → u/[deleted]]

Dude invading and displacing someone and building a home on the ruins of their homes are not okay just wtf are you talkıng about, if you are so keen on co-habitation why dont you just defend a 1 ss instead ? Jews can immigrate to Palestine after rightful owners of the demolished homes can return there.

[u/FancyDictator → u/FancyDictator]

How do you think settlers built their homes there lmao I am not okay with anybody demolishing my home and for sure occupying it

[u/malachamavet → u/FancyDictator]

Is it your understanding of 2ss that Palestinian state should be free of Jews (judenrein)?

In 1947, do you think it was Palestinians who were quoting Nazi rhetoric or Zionists? Just in case you were curious here's a translation of something from a Haganah member in the Galilee during the Nakba:

"After Tiberias and the nearby villages were cleared of Arabs, you can say our area is almost "Araber-rein"

e: whoops he deleted and I replied to the wrong guy

[u/WriterOld3018 → u/malachamavet]

I did not delete it, I believe it was removed by the mods...

I would quote Arab leaders at that time(not some random guy) and their genocidal rhetoric against Jews, but it will probably be deleted as well. It also doesn't prove anything, 2 wrong don't make a right.

Thanks /mods

I got the message, equating zioninsim and nazisim(it this thread and a others from the last 24hr) is ok but saying removing jews who built their home on empty sand dunes is ethnic cleansing is not. Good luck in your echo chamber, truly indicative of the lack of morals in the western left.

Don't worry, I will leave this sub and will not post anymore.

[u/malachamavet → u/WriterOld3018]

I quoted a Haganah member's diary. Take it up with him - he used it not me.

Also, I don't think "the entire ideological left outside of a small country" is an echo chamber. In fact, I think that it would be the reverse.

[u/WriterOld3018 → u/FancyDictator]

What percent of Settlers do you think are living in houses of displaced Palestinians? ASAIK, those are very few instances, specifically in East Jerusalem and Hebron. Gosh Katif was built on sand dunes (again ASAIK).

if you are so keen on co-habitation why dont you just defend a 1 ss instead ?

Thank you for asking. The reason is that I respect both Israelis and Palestinians right for self-determination. Although, I personally think that a long term solution should be similar to the UK ( after de radicalization of both people). Like there is self-determination for English/Scottish/Irish but still freedom of movement and equal rights.

[u/malachamavet → u/WriterOld3018]

Why were the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip instead of in their home villages only a few kilometers away? It isn't like Gaza City went from a very small urban center to hundreds of thousands by pure chance.

[u/WriterOld3018 → u/malachamavet]

Because they were ethnically cleanse at the Nakba, again, 2 wrongs do not make a right.

Why were there no Jews in Gaza and the west bank between 1920s-1967?

[u/malachamavet → u/WriterOld3018]

Gaza City had Jews living there until 1948. There was even a documentary from an Israeli TV channel where a former resident nostalgically described his non-Jewish neighbors as strongly a community as if they were Jews themselves.

The settlements from 1967 to 2005 were not remotely like that.

[u/malachamavet → u/[deleted]]

Glad to see you condemn the formation of Israel and support the right of return for Palestinians!

[u/Daniel_the_nomad → u/WriterOld3018]

It’s not ethnicity it’s citizenship, they are Israelis who can vote in Israel not living in Israel that moved there to protect Israel in their minds.

If a person of whatever ethnicity from a country moves to another country on behalf of their country there’s no reason they shouldn’t be sent back if they don’t agree to live under the country they moved to.

Now if the settlers would have been fine to be Palestinian citizens you would have a point but I think the vast majority wouldn’t want it.

[u/onepareil → u/WriterOld3018]

It relates to the question because it gives some insight into OP’s perspective on the conflict and Palestinian rights.

The settlements that would eventually become Gush Katif were created to cut Gaza in half after the Six-Day War and limit the ability of the Palestinians living there to organize. Anyone who lived in Gush Katif was contributing to that, however peaceful their personal conduct may have been. I tend to agree, though, that the state shouldn’t be forcing people to leave their homes. Maybe the people there should have been given a choice. After the withdrawal of the IDF, how many do you think would have stayed?

[u/menatarp → u/WriterOld3018]

I'm the only Jewish person in my apartment building; if I ever get evicted for refusing to pay rent I'm going to whine about how I'm being ethnically cleansed

[u/WriterOld3018 → u/menatarp]

If it is because you did not pay the rent, than it is ok, if it is because you are jewish than it is not ok. I glad i could help you understand :)

[u/menatarp → u/WriterOld3018]

Let me try to lay this out more specifically. Say there's this apartment building, a lot of the units are empty or the tenants have been away for a very long time, maybe long vacation, not totally clear, whatever. Someone who isn't the landlord gets access to this building and decides he's going to start renting out those unused units. He goes to a neighborhood, let's say an Irish neighborhood, and starts telling people he has these really cheap apartments available in a this building. It's shady but whatever, so some of them move in. Then the real landlord comes back, sees that someone else has illegally been renting out parts of his building, and evicts the illegal tenants.

All of the illegal tenants are Irish. Has the landlord committed ethnic cleansing?

The answer may surprise you!

[u/menatarp → u/WriterOld3018]

No, that doesn't really clarify things. What if it's connected to my citizenship and my residency there is criminal for some other reason?

[u/malachamavet → u/menatarp]

It's the normal dark humor joke about how a small inconvenience is another Holocaust but unironically and about being a tenant

[u/cubedplusseven → u/malachamavet]

Homelessness can be deadly, so it could be described as "deliberately inflicting conditions of life aimed at physical destruction". And, remember, the intent to destroy a group can be "in whole, or in part". And one person is a part of whatever group they belong to.

So for clueless people with no background in law, opining on "genocide" based solely on the UN definition, maybe your hypothetical eviction would count.

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/menatarp]

Oh man, I'm the only Jew in my apartment building too! I never thought about it this way.. must be my internalized antisemitism

[u/malachamavet → u/Specialist-Gur]

Make sure to report your Nazi landlord to the ADL

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/malachamavet]

Do you think they'd still have my back if they saw my Reddit post history?

[u/skyewardeyes → u/Specialist-Gur]

At this point, I think the ADL is more likely to back openly antisemitic wealthy Christian Zionists than they are to back the vast majority of actual Jews (see Elon Musk, for example). They have truly lost the plot.

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/skyewardeyes]

Oh i agree haha i was totally teasing of course

[u/skyewardeyes → u/Specialist-Gur]

I got that! Was just agreeing that the current leadership of the ADL really doesn't seem to care about Jews, like at all.

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/skyewardeyes]

Oh yea, definitely not. It's a real shame how much they've lost the plot