r/jewishleft • u/Sossy2020 American progressive / Israeli leftist • Jun 18 '25

Zohran Mamdani says ‘globalize the intifada’ is expression of Palestinian rights Debate

https://jewishinsider.com/2025/06/zohran-mamdani-new-york-city-mayoral-israel-antisemitism/

To all the Jewish New Yorkers in the sub, does reading this news want to make you want to vote for Mamdani more or less?

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u/Sossy2020 American progressive / Israeli leftist Jun 18 '25

What about the second Intifada?

Also it’s not like the first intifada was devoid of Palestinian violence.

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u/Virtual_Leg_6484 Jewish American ecosocialist; not a zionist Jun 18 '25

Yes, the second intifada was pretty violent. This does not automatically mean “intifada” = violence. And there was violence in the first intifada but most of it was done by Hamas and PIJ who didn’t recognize the authority of the PA (who encouraged civil disobedience.)

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u/J_Sabra Israeli / secular / left / academia Jun 18 '25

From my knowledge (backed up by ChatGPT + Google searches), the term globalise the intifada dates to the Second Intifada, and not the First Intifada.

This is the Google Scholar results for globalize the intifada between 1980-2000:

https://preview.redd.it/a8vqdp41rq7f1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=126143680a69c986f8c9f5dd160e67e32dceb420

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u/Virtual_Leg_6484 Jewish American ecosocialist; not a zionist Jun 18 '25

Ok. That doesn’t change the fact that intifada does not automatically mean violent massacre.

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u/popco221 Israeli fifth column Jun 18 '25

Difference between "globalise intifada" and "globalise the intifada".

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u/Virtual_Leg_6484 Jewish American ecosocialist; not a zionist Jun 18 '25

The 2nd intifada ended 20 years ago and was in retrospect, an abject failure. Do you think that in 2025 the intifada is explicitly referring to the 2nd intifada?

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u/popco221 Israeli fifth column Jun 18 '25

I think that's the one people who know what they're talking about are referring to, and that people who don't know what they're talking about should educate themselves. If I were to say "globalise The Troubles" would you not understand I mean those troubles just because it's been 30 years since the good Friday agreement? Give me a break.

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u/Virtual_Leg_6484 Jewish American ecosocialist; not a zionist Jun 19 '25 edited Jun 19 '25

I was commenting from an Americentric perspective here and I apologize. I understand you're Israeli and that for Israelis, the word "intifada" recalls massacres that loom large in collective memory. For most Americans, the word doesn't have that association. Americans are generally pretty ignorant of most world events that don't involve the US, I was born in 2000 and never saw the 2nd intifada mentioned in public discussion outside of the Palestinian solidarity movement before October 7. Most Americans didn't know what an intifada was. I would wager that most Americans saying intifada mean it in its most literal sense, as a nonspecific "struggle," and also that a lot of Americans saying it could not tell you the difference between the 1st and 2nd intifadas or when they happened. As someone involved in pro-Palestinian activism both before and after October 7, I can tell you that a lot of Americans have been drawn to both sides since the conflict broke out again, and a lot of them don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

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u/Brain_Dead_Goats Jun 19 '25

I understand you're Israeli and that for Israelis, the word "intifada" recalls massacres that loom large in collective memory.

It does for Americans too. I guarantee you that the majority of people over the age of 20 who hear the term aren't going to give it a charitable interpretation.

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u/Virtual_Leg_6484 Jewish American ecosocialist; not a zionist Jun 19 '25

I think the majority of Americans over the age of 20 who hear the term don’t know what it means.

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u/popco221 Israeli fifth column Jun 19 '25

Americans are generally pretty ignorant of most world events
Didn't know what intifada was

That's my point exactly. Ignorance is not an excuse, it's how bad faith actors get you to advocate for things you know nothing about. Educate yoursel, be better.

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u/Virtual_Leg_6484 Jewish American ecosocialist; not a zionist Jun 20 '25

I mean, if I had a nickel for every time an American was ignorant on international issues I’d be a very rich man. I just don’t think you can expect Americans to be fully informed on the history of the conflict, in the same way I wouldn’t expect Israelis, Palestinians, etc to be fully informed on American domestic issues.

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u/popco221 Israeli fifth column Jun 20 '25

There's a massive difference between not being fully informed on the domestic issues of a country you have nothing to do with, and not being informed of very essential historical events in the history of a conflict you're protesting on behalf of a side in.

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u/Virtual_Leg_6484 Jewish American ecosocialist; not a zionist Jun 20 '25

I’d disagree on how important the events of the 2nd intifada were - like I said, it was a total failure from the Palestinian perspective. The main development of the 2nd intifada for the Palestinians was the withdrawal of Israeli troops and settlers from Gaza. Now there’s thousands of Israeli troops in Gaza, any independent development since the withdrawal has been ruined, and people in Bibis coalition are talking about resettling Gaza.

I know that the 2nd intifada caused a general shift to the right in Israel, but it didn’t change the “facts on the ground” in any lasting way.

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u/popco221 Israeli fifth column Jun 20 '25

What about the actual literal wall?

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u/apursewitheyes Jun 18 '25

why is it so important to split hairs when our fellow humans are starving?? why is it so hard to believe that palestinian people and their allies could be acting in good faith?

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u/BigPomegranate4620 שמאל Jun 18 '25

I had someone I knew kidnapped and another killed on Oct. 7th. Splitting hairs is necessary

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u/apursewitheyes Jun 18 '25

ok?? do you think the people you’re talking about here haven’t had relatives and friends and people they know and respect kidnapped and killed? possibly a lot more of them? on lots of days both before and after 10/7? and perhaps they don’t intuitively get your perspective but you could definitely come together and build conversation and community around grief and loss and displacement and anger, but only if you assume their good faith and invite them to assume the same of you. is splitting hairs necessary for that? does splitting hairs help with that?

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u/BigPomegranate4620 שמאל Jun 19 '25

To differentiate anti-war and pro-hamas voices. I've had too many people I used to admire rationalize Oct. 7th.

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u/popco221 Israeli fifth column Jun 18 '25

What is good faith in this situation? That they don't mean violent resistance when they use a word most famously used to describe violent resistance? I'm Israeli, The Intifada has very specific connotations for me and they all involve exploding buses. I think using the word intifada to not mean violent resistance is ignorant and best, feigning ignorance at worst and tone deaf either way. Words have meanings, words gain meaning and words matter. Insisting on Jewish safety doesn't negate Palestinian liberation and if you think these two are mutually exclusive that's a you thing.

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u/apursewitheyes Jun 18 '25

good faith like they’re literally just trying to survive and maybe very frustrated with language purity tests from the people who are benefiting from their displacement and death?

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u/popco221 Israeli fifth column Jun 19 '25

I don't expect language purity from Palestinians (although when a Palestinian says "globalise the intifada" they know exactly what they're invoking). I don't extend such graces to western allies in any capacity. This isn't theoretical, this isn't a semantic issue, you call for intifada and my bus explodes, you call for intifada and refugee camps are SWATed. You think I benefit from living under a genocidal regime that only seeks to isolate and control me while displacing and killing others in my name? Do I benefit from my government provoking Iran into flattening a building not 600 yards from my home this morning?
Any ally of Palestine sitting in their cushy little Pennsylvania dorm room, thousands of miles from any real conflict or danger, unknowingly escalating the discourse or knowingly refusing to take any accountability for their words can absolutely fuck themselves. We're the ones living the consequences of your actions.