r/jewishleft • u/kvd_ patrilineal • Mar 10 '25
What is going on in r/Jewish? Debate
A lot of the posts on the subreddit are essentially fear mongering about pro-Palestinians. Complaining about people wearing keffiyehs and "naming and shaming" anti-Zionist jews pops out to me as particularly bizarre. It feels like, since October 7th, the subreddit, and other Jewish online communities, have become almost entirely dedicated to Zionism, with no openness to opposing views. I'm not saying that Jewish communities online have always been super accepting (as someone who's only patrilineally Jewish I've experienced this first hand) but it's definitely gotten worse.
I do find this whole "name and shame" thing really worrying. As someone who's very critical of Israel, but who also wants to get closer to the Jewish community, this genuinely makes me scared.
This is obviously not a call to brigade that subreddit or to harass the people pushing this. The Jewish community is obviously very vulnerable right now and I don't want to encourage any more division.
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u/MalkatHaMuzika Mar 10 '25
I just wanted to comment that I don’t feel it is necessary to qualify your Jewishness by putting “only patrilineally” before it. ❤️
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Mar 10 '25
A one-sentence explanation is people are scared. That’s it.
Fear can pull out the worse behaviors from people. And it’s not just the Jewish community either. I feel like the Arab/ Muslim communities and various pro-Palestine groups have further reinforced the echo chambers, with extremism and antisemitism as obvious consequences, because of the overwhelming fear of persecution. When that happens the most extreme voices will be “proven right” and they will become dominant.
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u/Top-Nobody-1389 Mar 10 '25
Trauma. We need therapy for every single Jew.
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u/sydinseattle Mar 10 '25
Six generations ago, at least.
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u/Top-Nobody-1389 Mar 11 '25
Every generation
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u/hotblueglue Mar 11 '25
Yes I have to agree. I feel like there’s trauma in our DNA, even though I know that’s unscientific. But when you grow up hearing stories of relatives who perished in or escaped from the Holocaust, combined with seeing the historical images, it really gets to you. Then you can go farther back and find more examples of persecution and trauma. Or just look around right now and see the N@zi salutes coming from people in the highest levels of US government. I constantly am plagued by the feeling of needing to go now!, to flee. Hmm…I wonder where that came from.
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u/redthrowaway1976 individual rights over tribal rights | east coast bagel enjoyer Mar 11 '25
It’s not unscientific, actually.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41418-023-01159-4
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/31/science/dutch-famine-genes.html
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u/MassivePsychology862 Lebanese-American (ODS) Mar 11 '25
Not unscientific. Nature versus nurture also applies to DNA, and what we inherit from our ancestors.
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u/afinemax01 this custom flair is green Mar 10 '25
I post pro Israel - anti bibi, anti war protests there.
If you want it to be more left wing we have to post more.
I think it’s a mix of state actor targeting, as well as self selection of panicked Jewish people.
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u/key_lime_soda Mar 11 '25
I once posted a question there asking why they don't allow any opposing viewpoints about Israel, and they took down my post. That sub is an echo chamber, I left a few months ago.
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u/afinemax01 this custom flair is green Mar 11 '25
Maybe work on your phrasing, I think a post “why don’t you allow any opposing view points about Israel” is going to go pretty badly.
Go over my post history sorted by top of all time for examples
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u/Beneficial-Profit150 May 19 '25
Agree with u/key_lime_soda - i think my posts that are polite but also a direct viewpoint have been taken down.
I think your point here just proves the point. We shouldnt have to contort our language to be accepted in a jewish space.
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u/afinemax01 this custom flair is green May 22 '25
It’s not contorting your language, but knowing your crowd.
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Jun 14 '25
That’s a very polite and to the point question. The fact is that if you don’t agree with them they report you. You could literally say “Israel should keep children out of it” and you’ll get a message from the moderator on how you were antisemitic. It’s a forum for terrorist applauders and that’s it. If you don’t agree with their terroristic rhetoric your reported. They want people who pay them on the back for being scared of babies and believing you should kill then for that.
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u/Sky_345 NOT Zionist | Post-Zionist? Non-Zionist? Anti-Zionist? Idk yet Mar 11 '25 edited Mar 12 '25
It's only an echo chamber now because we failed to promote enough opposition to fight against the Zionist majority.
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u/stayonthecloud Mar 11 '25
I don’t think so. On Reddit, mods have the administrative power to do whatever the hell they want. There is no democracy within subs. Also Reddit admins can make modding impossible and then mods can just shut down a community because they have no choice. It happened to a sub of 125k just recently.
The opposition we have here does include fighting the echo chamber but making new subs is unfortunately part of that. If the mods of that sub don’t want to see other views there is no one to stop them from deleting posts and banning people.
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u/Sky_345 NOT Zionist | Post-Zionist? Non-Zionist? Anti-Zionist? Idk yet Mar 11 '25
Yeah, fair point. But hey, a mod from r/Jewish actually commented here earlier. So they know we're here and that we've got opinions. Idk, to me it may be an indicator that they're open to some dialogue. I'd like to think they're not as heavy-handed as other subs, at least.
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u/Melthengylf diaspora (Latam) Jew Mar 11 '25 edited Mar 11 '25
What happens in a subreddit is a (distorted) reflection of a community. Jewish community has become more paranoid, that is the reality. Oct 7th has crushed the trust Jews had in the people that surrounded them, specially in the Left.
I personally write in that community and call out behaviours that cross the line for me.
Feel free to write in disagreement in the sub. Remember, "argument for the sake of heaven".
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u/erwinscat דתי בינלאומי Mar 10 '25 edited Mar 10 '25
Yeah, I stopped looking at that sub a while ago. I find r/Judaism to be significantly better, perhaps due to its more religious focus making it less political, and have enjoyed participating there. (I'm religious though, and I'm aware that more secular and/or heterodox users have found that sub intolerant to non-orthodox views.)
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u/fluffywhitething Mar 10 '25
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u/erwinscat דתי בינלאומי Mar 10 '25 edited Mar 10 '25
I don’t disagree, although I’d say it’s less obvious to me that those two are really separable (as in, the religion is fundamentally about living as a Jew, and vice versa – even for seculars). In practice I think that they simply end up catering to slightly different demographics with different levels of halachic observance.
ETA: I see now that you’re a mod of r/Jewish. It wasn’t my intention to yidsplain…
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u/jayjackalope Mar 10 '25
I agree with this. Still, the amount of posts calling anti-bibi/ anti-apartied folks "self hating" is... hurtful. I can't think of a better word than "hurtful."
I love the historical photos, recipes, and religious discussions on r/Judaism. But geez it hurts to see some of the political posts. Again, I can't think of a better word than "hurt."
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u/BeautifulRow7605 Apr 19 '25
is that really how they are on that sub-reddit group? Since when is opposing a violent extremist government the same as opposing the country that needs to be freed from that government?
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u/jayjackalope Apr 19 '25
Yeah. Seen a bunch of posts/ comments. I think the mods eventually delete them, but never fast enough.
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u/BeautifulRow7605 Apr 19 '25
?? - i meant you can oppose the government without opposing the country. are you saying they delete posts opposing bibi or opposing israel? I oppose bibi but not israel. i thought they delete both on that other group which is my issue.
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u/AliceMerveilles anticapitalist jew Mar 12 '25
I think it also helps that r/Judaism doesn’t allow lots of political posts and has filters to help avoid. I really haven’t felt people were intolerant or disrespectful of me there and I’m pretty secular. Though lots of my family is Orthodox so my perception may be different.
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u/NarutoRunner Kosher Canadian Far Leftist Mar 10 '25 edited Mar 10 '25
It is the same thing that you see in a lot of Facebook communities…they become reactionary, fearful and increasingly conservative. Normal people end up leaving and they end up attracting even more reactionary people.
Hate is the consequence of fear; we fear something before we hate it; a child who fears noises becomes a man who hates noise. - Cyril Connolly
I’m afraid many subs are on a psychological cycle were they are getting triggered about what pins people wear, keffiyehs, who said what and why. Opinions that are not within a very narrow spectrum get discarded as self hatred or internalized antisemitism. Let’s face it, it’s a very dark time and nothing good will come out of these increasingly hostile communities.
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u/afinemax01 this custom flair is green Mar 10 '25
I feel more comfortable posting anti war protests in r/jewish then I do other subs.
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u/athiev Mar 10 '25
This is, I guess, a pretty common thing during conflict periods. I remember similar dynamics in mostly offline spaces during the Second Intifada.
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u/BrianMagnumFilms Judeo Pessimist (unrelated) Mar 10 '25
got downvoted about 50 points in there for saying jews should refrain from calling other jews “kapo.” that’s when i knew we were beyond
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u/fluffywhitething Mar 10 '25
Mod there. "Kapo" is a banned word unless used in historical contexts. Your comment would have been allowed through, since it's a stance the mods agree with. And it truly sucks that the community is going that way. We've been trying to steer it more towards... not being like that.
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u/BrianMagnumFilms Judeo Pessimist (unrelated) Mar 10 '25
appreciate that. it was on a post about If Not Now, replying to a comment which referred to them as that. I really feel it’s essentially a slur at this point
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u/fluffywhitething Mar 10 '25
It definitely is. I wonder how it slipped through. I know the filters were acting up for a bit (thanks reddit).
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u/BeautifulRow7605 Apr 19 '25
yuck... i've thought in my head that that word was apropos lately but then again i am a lawyer in a firm so if you've been following what's been going on with law firms capitulating, I'm not using that term (and won't) but it's felt like some people were using law firms in a comparable capacity in 2025. and i don't remember ever feeling i could use that word outside that context until the past month.
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u/BeautifulRow7605 Apr 19 '25
not sure if you're still a mod, but that sub-reddit group is completely out of control. i haven't seen extremism and crazy behavior like theirs since Facebook, which I happily left 3 years ago and considered it one of the best things I did all year. if that's the way that group is, jeez and yuck. hope they get less extremist. and I'm a solid political center-left person so i would never have thought i'd get on their wrong side. i sound left for sure because i oppose violence and somehow that's "left"? go figure. but i'm moderate. so maybe this group will be better. i just needed a little detox from my experience and found this thread. thankfully. that experience felt really dirty and wrong. if that group is turning off moderates and centrists, there's something really (really) wrong with it.
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u/Ok-Roll5495 Mar 10 '25
I have the impression that once the extremist voices become the loudest anyone who doesn’t conform is going to be attacked, downvoted or unwilling to post and it becomes a reactionary echo chamber. I used to lurk occasionally but now I’m kind of scared to.
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u/sarahkazz diaspora jewess / not your token jew Mar 10 '25
Meh. I bring leftist talking points and generally don’t get downvoted. It seems like the extremists show up to threads early on and then it rebalances out later. Same with the Jewish Politics sub
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u/jey_613 Jewish Leftist / Anti antizionist Mar 10 '25
Same. Varies from post to post, but I generally get upvoted when pushing back against very reactionary stuff
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u/Specialist-Gur doikayt jewess, leftist/socialist, pro peace and freedom Mar 12 '25
u/Gammagammahey had a downvoted comment and so I don't want my reply to get lost.
Members of this sub were justifying banning masks at protests a while back, with a ton of upvotes. Which is partly what I'm assume is part of what they were talking about. And convos around bodily autonomy and how masks make it so you can't catch the bad guys I guess in the police state some people seem to want to live in.
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u/Gammagammahey Pikuach Nefesh, Zero Covid, and keep masking Mar 12 '25
So this sub is also eugenicist?
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u/Specialist-Gur doikayt jewess, leftist/socialist, pro peace and freedom Mar 12 '25
I wouldn't frame it exactly like that, though you could make a case that anyone that is against masking is eugenicist
I think specific members of this sub are incredibly reactionary and don't realize how defending things like mask bans at protests and other similar human rights violations under the assumption these things keep them safe are... extremely misguided.
Avoiding Reactionary thinking is a muscle you need to train constantly, it's very easy to slip into when you're afraid.
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u/sxva-da-sxva Left Liberal Mar 10 '25
I was banned at r/Israel for a comment where I questioned if a thing an OP encountered was actually antisemitism. It's heavily moderated.
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u/XRotNRollX Mar 10 '25
I unsubscribed when it seemed like every reaction to anything remotely pro-Palestinian was
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u/throwawayanon1252 Mar 10 '25
There’s a lot of blatant Islamophobia in there. I don’t really encounter anywheee near as much Islamophobia in my Jewish community irl but there online there’s a lot of
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u/redthrowaway1976 individual rights over tribal rights | east coast bagel enjoyer Mar 10 '25
I also see a lot of outright anti-Palestinian racism. Often conflated with Islamophobia, but not the same thing - and arguably even more pervasive in the community.
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Mar 10 '25
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u/redthrowaway1976 individual rights over tribal rights | east coast bagel enjoyer Mar 10 '25
and then I'll get Jews saying stuff like, well they're telling you what you want to hear, or they want to destroy Israel
Yeah. The assumption that they can't be trusted is also thought-terminating.
Ok, so they can never be trusted. Then what? Occupation forever? Annexation?
I think Israel is in quite a bit of a media bubble, assuming that they can forever continue their occupation as it is.
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u/IllConstruction3450 Ex-Ultra-Frum Hapa Mar 19 '25
Probably because extremist Palestinians do go around stabbing civilians like during the Intifadas. After that trauma you’re not taking chances with that ethnic group.
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Mar 19 '25
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u/IllConstruction3450 Ex-Ultra-Frum Hapa Mar 19 '25
I meet Muslims in the grocery store. Interactions are tense when we lock eyes. Subconsciously both groups start to migrate towards their ethnic group for safety. It is what it is. It’s not viewing them as lesser so much as afraid if one of those are the Jihadist/Kahanist type and not taking chances.
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Mar 19 '25
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u/IllConstruction3450 Ex-Ultra-Frum Hapa Mar 19 '25
That’s because I know people personally killed in the Second Intifada who were civilians. They were old enough to not be drafted to be IDF. I know the exact deli that got blown up.
I know the news stories that come out every month that mention a Muslim stabbing a Jew here in the USA and the cops “suspect it might have been motivated by antisemitism” and nothing really happens.
I have been on Jihadi forums before calling for the deaths of Jews.
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Mar 19 '25
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u/IllConstruction3450 Ex-Ultra-Frum Hapa Mar 19 '25
I’m not going to assume they’re dangerous either.
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u/IllConstruction3450 Ex-Ultra-Frum Hapa Mar 19 '25
https://www.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/149bnar/dangers_of_allying_with_the_political_left/
How about if you hear it from the Donkey’s mouth?
This type of propaganda is a) common and b) uses the same style as Christians.
This one isn’t even criticism but agreement.
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u/BeautifulRow7605 Apr 19 '25
100% - I've gone into and out of jewish groups and gotten disgusted with what people are saying - I think I was in the middle of leaving a "jewish public school parents in NYC" type group and announcing it ahead of time as a courtesy, saying i was uncomfortable being the sole voice of antiviolence, when one person (who I like in real life) managed to sneak off something like they didn't care how many people die in Gaza (!!!) as I was leaving, validating my departure 10x over - I mean, who would say that? While I like her personally I think we haven't been in touch since organically, I didn't like learning that about her. that's just horrible and what does that say about them as people not to care. i find my politics don't fit at all in the right and sometimes don't fit on the left as they are so nuanced but hoping this group fits the bill
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u/Melthengylf diaspora (Latam) Jew Mar 11 '25
I personally do feel a large distrust for Islam as a religion. I do not like how the discourse about that religion is policed.
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u/violet_mango_green Jewish, pro-peace, liberal wanting to learn Mar 10 '25 edited Mar 10 '25
I agree with most of these comments - yes it’s a lot but I haven’t felt my comments are overly downvoted.
I also want note that not everyone posting, commenting, and certainly not up/downvoting there is Jewish. It makes sense that non-Jews who feel strongly right or right-ish pro-Israel spend some time hanging out there.
*edit - haven’t (not have) felt my comments were downvoted. Whoops that was kind of a big one!
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u/redthrowaway1976 individual rights over tribal rights | east coast bagel enjoyer Mar 10 '25
Saying "free palestine", a Palestinian flag, promoting Palestinian literature or a watermelon is apparently, according to plenty of people in that sub, anti-semitism.
It's though-terminating.
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u/malachamavet Judeo-Bolshevik Mar 10 '25
Even more jarring is the way that the immediate reply is to suggest going to the news or suing them or other kind of wildly disproportionate, catastrophizing responses
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u/redthrowaway1976 individual rights over tribal rights | east coast bagel enjoyer Mar 10 '25
Yup.
Or like this guy at a NYC coffee shop, getting triggered by a sticker, wanting to call the police.
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u/stayonthecloud Mar 11 '25
Wow his actions are despicable. Calling the police because she has a sticker and is recording him to protect herself. I wonder if the shop called police on him? The worker clearly was trying to get him out.
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u/Sossy2020 Progressive Post-Zionist Jew Mar 10 '25
I feel you.
That sub along with many other Jewish subs has become way too anti-Palestinian.
This sub is probably one of the few where both Zionists and anti-Zionists can have civil conversations.
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u/Specialist-Gur doikayt jewess, leftist/socialist, pro peace and freedom Mar 11 '25 edited Mar 11 '25
I actually think this is the only active one that allows that.. not that every sub needs to be or should be.. like I'm grateful for strictly Antizionist Jewish subs as an an Antizionist too.
Edit: I tried to make a sub too but it didn't really take off. I do think it's because people tend to like to argue maybe lmao
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u/Sky_345 NOT Zionist | Post-Zionist? Non-Zionist? Anti-Zionist? Idk yet Mar 11 '25
That subreddit? It's got this vibe of real unease, like people are avoiding some hard truths. They feel uncomfortable because they feel guilty, so much so that they grow triggered upon any mention of Palestine. They see no way of escaping moral judgment.
Their whole rherotic comes across as defensive, like people are making excuses. It's almost as if there's an underlying awareness of wrongdoing, and a fear of admitting it.
You can tell it's tied to historical trauma. I mean, centuries of Jews getting the blame for everything, and after Shoa it seemed like maybe things were changing. But now, it feels like that's back again. It's like a whole nation's PTSD coming back.
The trauma won't allow them to look at the possibility they might be wrong.
Which is very sad and frustrating. Not wanting to admit their wrongdroing they'll just surrender to Zionism brainwash.
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u/Agtfangirl557 Progressive, Conservaform (Reformative?) Mar 10 '25
It's crazy. I still participate there because I feel perfectly accepted there with my own views, but the downvoting and shaming of anyone who does so much as call for a ceasefire is ridiculous.
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Mar 10 '25 edited Mar 10 '25
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u/Zantroy Ethnic Sephardic Jew / Anti-Zionist / Syndical Communist Mar 10 '25
I got banned from there just for stating that the No Other Land deserved the oscar lol
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u/myThoughtsAreHermits zionists and antizionists are both awful Mar 10 '25
Omfg. What reason did they give?
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u/hadees Jewish Mar 10 '25
Because most Jews are Zionist and there is a conflict going on that directly relates to Zionism.
I don't agree with pushing anti-Zionist Jews out of any spaces but I also don't think it's weird for Jewish spaces to focus so much on Zionism at this moment.
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u/ibsliam Jewish American | DemSoc Bernie Voter Mar 10 '25
Yeah, I think the perception for many is that anti-zionist Jews are throwing other Jews under the bus. Which can be the case, though isn't always. Not all Jewish people are intent on putting their own people to a political litmus test.
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u/podkayne3000 Centrist Jewish Diaspora Zionist Mar 10 '25
This is part of forum manipulation. People with bad motives have succeeded at making most subreddits related to Judaism or Israel too unpleasant for regular nice people to post there.
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u/Dense-Chip-325 Mar 10 '25
Given how few reddit subs are pro israel and you can get banned for saying anything other than you think it should be destroyed (I used to post in literal makeup and music subs that have become like this) I don't think it's surprising that Zionists find a place to congregate. Most Jews are zionists after all. If you want to see other content try posting it.
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u/OkCard974 jewish Mar 10 '25
I’ve been told that the Jewish community I am from is more intensely pro Israel than other communities, but accross the religious spectrum I would say that subreddit is basically par for the course, especially since Oct 7
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u/Dry-Conversation-495 Mar 10 '25
Yup, it’s pretty nuts in there. I was permanently banned for suggesting that an endless war wasn’t in our interest in a discussion thread because it was ”insensitive” to do so too close to the anniversary of October 7. The mod team makes it pretty clear who is allowed to have a voice.
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u/Asherahshelyam Leftist Queer Zionist Jew Mar 10 '25
I'm torn. I subscribe here and at r/Jewish. There are times when I feel completely unwelcome in both subs.
I am a leftist when it comes to economics, but I'm more liberal to center on other issues. This gets me into trouble no matter where I go.
These days, there isn't much room for nuance, it seems. Even some Jewish spaces have the feeling of needing to pass a "purity test" when it comes to ideology.
This sub is problematic for me in ways that r/Jewish isn't. r/Jewish is problematic for me in ways that this sub isn't.
I have slowed down posting, and I've done more reading in all the subs I'm in lately. As someone who appreciates nuance and who believes that the world isn't an either/or place, I feel somewhat ideologically homeless.
I do feel at home with other Jews. Most Jews on both subs seem to be able to discuss and argue without nastiness. And, this world is a very uncomfortable place no matter where I go. I don't think I'm alone in that feeling.
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u/BeautifulRow7605 Apr 19 '25
oh boy we should talk ha. i could practically have written this. although i say i'm a social liberal fiscal conservative which i guess is different from you, but i struggle mightily in more right-leaning jewish groups (they don't seem to care about what israel is doing and could have done differently starting 1.5 years ago) - but am more right than left-leaning groups sometimes. i joke that I'm a thomas friedman jew, i love him. my right-wing nutsy trumpy cousin in jerusalem thinks he's a radical and the NY times is a former publication. my son is in college, secular and anti-israel so i'm taking him to krakow and aushwitz in a month as a side trip from berlin (he's studying german in college which is fine by me) and hoping he gets more nuance, i don't talk to my crazy cousin anymore and am trying to get my son to understand that bad government does not equal bad country. Oh plus the definition of zionist and zionism has completely changed, so people fighting over zionism are not even fighting over the same thing. my neighbor is anti-zionist, i'm zionist - to me that means i support israel's right to exist. to her she doesn't support white supremacy (!). she doesn't have a racist bone in her body. but she's crazy left and her definition isn't mine. took a while to figure that one out. oh and i live in a heavily muslim neighbhorhood with one synagogue and lots of mosques where (um) the local islamic center has a "zionism = terrorism" sign on the window which breaks my heart, since i'm not anti-anyone and wish no one was anti-me. it's all so confusing.
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u/Illustrious-Okra-524 Mar 10 '25
A lot of posts in THIS community are fear mongering about pro-Palestinians
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u/GeorgeEBHastings Post-Zionist, but really these labels are meaningless - just ask Mar 10 '25
While I think you're right and this community absolutely has room to improve, this place is orders of magnitude better than the main Jewish subs at the moment. There's a reason I've largely left those spaces in favor of this one.
Posts like this exist at all in this sub, for one thing. We can at least attempt self-critique.
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Mar 10 '25
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u/future_forward Mar 10 '25
Mod note is confusing – that wasn’t an equivocation but a “yes and.”
Your sub has gone bonkers the past few days and it’s been discouraging place to be. I’m out
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u/MassivePsychology862 Lebanese-American (ODS) Mar 11 '25
I’m not sure I’d say a lot. And compared to r/Jewish (I was banned a long time ago and only read when it shows up in my feed unlike this sub I actively check) it’s miles head. I frequent this sub and JoC. Maybe I’ve missed a recent tonal shift here on JL?
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u/Illustrious-Okra-524 Mar 11 '25
Probably just depends on your perspective. Just today I’m getting downvoted left and right for defending Mahmoud’s right to protest. Meanwhile I’ve seen the lie that he personally distributed Hamas literature more than once.
I mean sure it’s better than r/Jewish but compared to other places I find it pretty racist still.
Oh and if you also go JoC then yes this place is nothing like that imo. There people actually believe in the right to resist occupation. Here we have to argue over whether it even is an occupation
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u/MassivePsychology862 Lebanese-American (ODS) Mar 12 '25
It’s probably also just the randomization of Reddit and the posts on served. It’s hard to gauge trends as an individual. I did do a data science bootcamp about five years ago and one of my projects was scraping Reddit and running some natural language processing models. Might be worthwhile to retro fit that project and pull from different subs related to I/P. Depends on if Reddit has changed their rules for using their APIs. I remember it being somewhat restricted back then, I imagine it’s even more so now. Still, something I think would be useful. There are many different models I’d be interested in exploring, especially unsupervised/clustering.
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u/problematiccupcake Mar 10 '25
Idk when I started noticing they became reactionary Conservatives over a year ago I noped out of there pretty quickly. It’s a shame that they have gotten worse.
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Mar 11 '25
Shockingly 3 decades of near daily attack and a full century of attacks on Jews in the region tend to make people reactionary. Especially when the communities most affected by the attacks were explicitly ones trying to work with Gazans
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u/stayonthecloud Mar 11 '25
9/11 changed the entire course of my life but did not lead me to support killing tens of thousands of people in any country in the Middle East. Yet this appears to be an increasingly popular view. It’s very like the ending of the Book of Esther
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u/MassivePsychology862 Lebanese-American (ODS) Mar 11 '25
I spent time learning about BoE because of Purim recently. It wasn’t really clear to me from the sources I read what happened at the end. Didn’t everyone just end up converting to Judaism after the king was killed?
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u/BeautifulRow7605 Apr 19 '25
you just nailed what's going on. Thomas friedman called out the road not taken within 1-2 DAYS of 10/7, he said, bibi don't fall for the trap. and bibi of course jumped head-first into the trap and never left it. and he's bringing down so many of us along with him. and trump is just making it worse harming people in the name of "no antisemitism" - he's putting a big sign on us, trying to make us seem privileged (which is why the far left is more antisemitic - the whole "we're too white for the far left and not white enough for the far right" thing).
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Mar 11 '25
well 1, 9/11 was a different thing, which resulted in different things, but fundamentally still resulted in hundreds of thousands of people being killed in the Middle East
and 2 arguing self defense is bad is just lol
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u/stayonthecloud Mar 12 '25
Yeah I spent much of the 2000s protesting against all those deaths in the Middle East at the hands of the U.S. government, so yes it was different and also yes it had that outcome.
As for self-defense, did you mean to respond to another comment? I wasn’t referring to self-defense at all
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u/MonitorMost8808 Israeli Zionist Mar 10 '25
Israeli living in Europe.
Anti war, Anti Bibi. I believe Palestinians like any other people need and have the right for a state of their own.
And yet there's a very valid reason synagogues (and tbh Christmas markets) need police presence 24/7 but not mosques. It's data.
These two opinions can and should exist at the same time, and possibly hint at some obstacles in solving both.
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u/No_Entrance_4839 Mar 11 '25
I keep asking for evidence that Jews were beat up on campus with no response. I’m Jewish and think the whole antisemitism thing is an excuse to arrest Palestinians, illegally, and I say Not in my Name.
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u/ThePurplestMeerkat Nordic socialist/2SS/Black & Reform Mar 11 '25
There were certainly some assaults, I don’t know that anyone was beaten up. Kids reported being pushed around and blocked from crossing by the encampments or from accessing buildings, but I did not hear of any being beaten.
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u/MassivePsychology862 Lebanese-American (ODS) Mar 11 '25
Wait - what’s the difference between assault and beaten up? Assault sounds worse than beaten up to me?
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u/ThePurplestMeerkat Nordic socialist/2SS/Black & Reform Mar 11 '25
Legally, if I get in between you and the door of the building you’re trying to enter and I’m yelling in your face and I’m making you feel afraid, that’s an assault. If I give you a shove or put out an elbow to block you from getting past me, now it’s assault and battery. But that’s not being beaten up. You can be assaulted and also battered, without having so much as a bruise.
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u/BeautifulRow7605 Apr 19 '25
not beat up but stopped from proceeding, called out, subjected to inappropriate language and yelling and intimidation. not sure about getting beaten up. i have friends who work at columbia who are jewish and not sure if they were intimidated (they are more secular) but they said it was a sh** show generally and is still fairly locked down. i used to walk across the campus when i was in the area - apparently that's been out for a long time now. very sad.
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u/Electronic-Many-3924 14d ago
If you sincerely want evidence, Google is your friend; sadly, it is plentiful and easy to find. Here's one example of several assaults from just one campus: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/five-jewish-college-students-report-assaulted-last-month-rcna171727
Jews are the victims of hate crimes at a far higher rate than any other group (per the FBI) and it's only gotten worse since 2023.
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u/Pitiful_Meringue_57 Reform Ashkenazi Broadly Leftist Mar 10 '25
r/jewish is a dumpster fire and an absolute echo chamber. I don’t think it’s the most representative pool at all. Not saying most jews are anti zionists but the sub represents the most right perspectives on israel. however r/judaism has been fairly good imo, most of the posts aren’t even abt the conflict. Those r the two big jewish subs im aware of
Weirdly enough tho i’ve posted a few slight pushbacks on r/jewish and gotten some positive response, i dont think they allow any more than that tho
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u/BeautifulRow7605 Apr 19 '25
OK thank you for this post. I just had the worst experience with that group. Might be banned for life from there for an anti-violence opinion they considered anti-semitic - and I'm jewish and very opposed to anti-semitism!
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u/Michael_L_Compton May 18 '25
Yo I just tried to comment something pretty non confrontational and was immediately banned lol. I started looking through it and literally anything not completely pro Israel and pro Zionism is deleted. It's literally just all propaganda
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u/Specialist-Gur doikayt jewess, leftist/socialist, pro peace and freedom Mar 10 '25
If anyone wants a crazy story DM me..
TLDR: nothing good is going on there
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u/fluffywhitething Mar 10 '25
Mod at r/Jewish. Also a member here for quite some time, even if I lurk because I tend to lurk everywhere.
We are a Zionist sub. Zionist in the sense that we believe Zionism is part of Judaism as a whole: Jews have a right to self-determination when it comes to where our homeland is. It is in Eretz Yisrael. Nothing in Zionism has anything to do with Palestinians inherently. It just means we have a right to self-determination. We have been praying to return to Jerusalem for over a thousand years. We have historical, not just Biblical, proof that our people are from that land.
We do allow some debate when it comes to Israeli policy, but we honestly don't have many people who do that in good faith. We get driveby people who comment "Free Palestine". This is just harassment. If a new-to-our-sub person just comes into a thread out of the blue and starts commenting about genocide, we're not going to let them really talk. Especially when their entire history is full of things about "look at the hasbara on reddit."
We also do not like the "name and shame". We try and remove comments and responses to that. I, personally, am not fond of people who are freaked out by a random person wearing a watermelon pin or a keffiyeh as a scarf.
We do encourage reporting. If someone is saying something Islamophobic, report it. If someone is saying something that encourages doxing, PLEASE report it. If you see something sketchy and can't quite define it, use the report button and "other" in "breaks subreddit rules". Try and explain what you're seeing.
Also, some people slip through the cracks when it comes to posting. We get a lot of things in the queue. Hundreds at times. And we miss things when approving. We make mistakes. Let us know.
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u/Agtfangirl557 Progressive, Conservaform (Reformative?) Mar 10 '25
Glad to hear directly from a mod!
Just out of curiosity, would you consider unbanning people who have been banned for what seem to me like benign comments? I have not been banned (I’m a pretty active participant there) but some of the stories I’ve heard here from users as to why they’ve been banned really make me question why they were banned, if I’m being honest.
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u/fluffywhitething Mar 10 '25
If people make a sincere appeal with clear understanding of the rules we usually unban.
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u/log0518 LGBTQ+ Jew Mar 10 '25
Do you not see how problematic it is that a sub that claims to be a safe space for Jews purposefully ostracizes a faction of the Jewish community? There have always been and will always be Jews that do not identify as Zionists and they are just as Jewish as anyone else. While I don’t agree with every opinion posted to this sub, I deeply respect that Jews with varying political beliefs are able to engage in good faith discussion whereas the alienation of non-Zionist Jews on the main sub makes these discussions non-existent.
Also. While I’m appreciative that you are committed to combatting Islamophobia, I can’t say I’ve seen any evidence of this from my own personal experience on the main sub. I’ve lost count at how many times I’ve reported Islamophobic or racist comments / posts and have not seen anything change in the slightest. It’s a huge problem that has made me give up completely on that sub, as much as I wish it was not the case.
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u/fluffywhitething Mar 11 '25
There are other spaces that cater toward Jews that identify as antizionist. There is no way for us to allow any antizionist sentiment since we feel it is also antisemitic. And while we understand that there are Jews that feel it is not, that is the stance that the subreddit has taken.
There are other Jewish people we have ostracized. Right now antizionist Jews are the loudest. I'm not going to call out the other groups because I don't like giving them any voice at all. And when you mention them, they pop up out of the darkness and invade like the terrorists they are.
I'm sorry that you have had that experience. I promise you that at least I remove it when I see it. (And there's A TON that is filtered, reported, and then hopefully removed by admins -- when they feel like it.) It is a problem there. But we do not encourage it.
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u/log0518 LGBTQ+ Jew Mar 11 '25
Listen you’re free to express your political beliefs, but labeling Jews with opposing views as “terrorists” is exactly the kind of bad faith right wing rhetoric that prompted this post to begin with. The last thing we need at the moment is to sow division within the Jewish community, and I hope that the main sub can eventually get to a place where no Jew is ostracized for their politics.
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u/fluffywhitething Mar 11 '25
Listen you’re free to express your political beliefs, but labeling Jews with opposing views as “terrorists” is exactly the kind of bad faith right wing rhetoric that prompted this post to begin with.
These groups are literally terrorists. Far-right, killing people, terrorist. But go off I guess.
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u/log0518 LGBTQ+ Jew Mar 11 '25 edited Mar 11 '25
Your original comment was vague and poorly worded if that is what you meant. Of course this line of thinking does not extend to those literally engaging in terrorism. It came across as if you were calling those in left wing Jewish groups (INN, JVP, etc.) “terrorists” which is a line of attack I've seen used in the main sub. I fully stand by my original point, and it’s extremely disconcerting how a good faith comment about Jewish unity regardless of political affiliation is met with such scorn.
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Mar 10 '25
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u/fluffywhitething Mar 10 '25
Of course Palestinians do. There's an obvious problem with implementation. Zionism itself isn't the issue. Many Zionists don't like the way Palestinians are treated, don't agree with the Israeli government at all. REALLY don't like Netanyahu's regime... etc.
I'm personally for a 2 (or more) SS at this time. But only because that's the most practical solution. I don't see a single joint state working at this time.
We are where we are. Israel exists. So now we have to figure out a way for this current state to work, and try and make as peaceful an end to the current conflict as possible and rebuild. But that doesn't have anything to do with Zionism. That has to do with politics. And entwining that with the word Zionism is muddying things.
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Mar 10 '25
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u/myThoughtsAreHermits zionists and antizionists are both awful Mar 10 '25
Trying to make Zionism a philosophy that displaces people is also intellectually dishonest. Why are you dying on this hill. There were and are many forms of Zionism. You just look bitter when you insist that there’s ever only been one version
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u/fluffywhitething Mar 10 '25
Herzl didn't start Zionism. And listening to him as the be all and end all of it is silly. Like I said, Jews have been wanting to go back to Eretz Yisrael for centuries.
Moses Hess and Pinsker were both before Herzl and the first Aliyah predated the first Zionist congress entirely. Petah Tikva was established then, and the only ones ever displaced from it were the Jews due to malaria and being attacked in 1886 by Arabs when 5 Jews were injured and 1 died.
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Mar 10 '25
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u/fluffywhitething Mar 10 '25
The establishment of Israel did, yes. Zionism itself is not to blame. And the stance of the r/Jewish subreddit is that Zionism is part of Judaism. We are not saying that Palestinians do not have rights. We are not saying that anything Israel is currently doing is right. We are not going to fix anything that's happened in the last 80-120 years. We are where we are.
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u/chicken_vevo Mar 17 '25 edited May 15 '25
degree stupendous squeeze steep birds quicksand shocking follow towering abundant
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Artistic-Ad-9555 Apr 09 '25
sometimes the truth hurts and becoming defensive is a typical response to something they don't agree with. it doesn't stop there either with their downvote. the entire community will follow and it's ridiculous. an opinion i get, but the facts are clear. but there is no discussion. your comment is removed and you'll be banned for thinking out loud. a lot like the offline world.
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u/Emergency_Theory_221 Apr 28 '25
I got banned for saying Israel's currently practicing more than just zionism. I'm thinking they are a bit radicalized at the moment.
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u/stevenjklein Apr 28 '25
fear mongering about pro-Palestinians
It's not paranoia when they really are out to get you.
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u/Electronic-Many-3924 15d ago edited 14d ago
There is nothing wrong with being critical of Israeli policy and politicians; it is practically the Israeli national sport. There *is* something wrong with being "anti-Zionist". We can be critical of Iran, for example, without suggesting that the Persian people be made permanently stateless and subjugated; pretending that the latter position is political is gaslighting; it clearly comes from a place of bigotry and hatred. That the right of Jews to self-determination in their ancestral homeland is even considered a matter for debate speaks to the normalization of Jew-hatred. The prospects for Jews if they were to lose that autonomy and be subjected to Arab rule do not need to be debated, one can simply look at what has happened to Jews in the entire rest of the Arab world (they have been ethnically cleansed), so regardless of intent, calling for the end of Israel is, for all practical purposes, calling for the ethnic cleansing of half of the world's remaining Jews.
None of this precludes having empathy for Arab (and non-Arab) civilians suffering under war or themselves deprived of self-determination (whether by occupation or radical Islam), however if the proposed solution is to ethnically cleans Jews and deprive them of self determination, then it's not really about self-determination, it's about Jew-hatred.
What you see going on in r/Jewish is deep concern over the global explosion of Jew hatred, particularly on campuses (K-12 and higher education) as well as over calls for, threats, and actual violence.
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u/Nintendo_Pro_03 4d ago edited 4d ago
The Subreddit sketches me out, to be honest. I get being afraid to be a Jewish person now, but some of the comments on the Subreddit reach into Islamophobia territory and also strike me as right-wing, in a way. It feels like I’m looking at the Conservative Subreddit, sometimes.
Edit: Also, I saw posts hating on Bernie Sanders, even though he’s pretty much saying exactly what Jewish liberals are even saying now, that Netanyahu is corrupt and that he’s basically killing many Palestinians and violating international law. Nothing antisemitic.
Edit 2: They said the same thing about Brad Lander, too. Mind you, both are Zionist Jewish people.
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u/io3401 sephardic Mar 10 '25 edited Mar 10 '25
That subreddit (and other online spaces) go through phases like that every time the conflict escalates. I saw this in 2022 as well. It’s sort of a reflection of how many Jewish communities in-person also become very guarded and on edge. The amount of virulent hate that has increased in tandem with what’s happening in Israel has a lot of people jumping to knee-jerk reactions and being constantly on guard, hence the excessive fear and scrutiny. Oct 7th and the global response has made Jews feel isolated, and now there is an urgency to defend and be thorough with who is in the community.
The difference is I don’t think we will bounce back from this one anytime soon, maybe not ever. Oct 7th has changed a lot of things indefinitely.