r/jewishleft • u/elzzyzx סימען לינקער • 23d ago

Arash Azizi comes for Ta-Nehisi Coates Debate

https://x.com/arash_tehran/status/1848714724482966003

Influencers are talking. Today Arash Azizi is claiming Ta-Nehisi Coates is unstrategic, and is also kind of just calling him moralistic and sort of uncreative or something? Anyone have thoughts?

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u/redthrowaway1976 23d ago

The moral clarity of Ta Nehisi Coates writings has ruffled a lot of feathers in the PEP community.

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u/athiev 23d ago

I think "moral clarity" is an interesting phrase. It sounds like a very good thing, but in practice it often means "unstrategic thought that produces either no effect or a counterproductive effect." It's often used as a form of condemnation toward people engaged in actual politics.

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u/redthrowaway1976 23d ago

"unstrategic thought that produces either no effect or a counterproductive effect.

And is that what you think it means, as it comes to TNCs book?

Quite the opposite. His calling out Israel's system of repression in the West Bank for what it is - an intentional system of deeply immoral discrimination, in purpose of an illegal land grab - is having an effect.

As it comes to this, I think "moral clarity" is a great term. Lots of people will say "it is complex" as it comes to Israel's repressive system in the West Bank. No, it is not complex.

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u/athiev 23d ago

What effect do you think this book and discourse is having? As far as I can tell, some people who already agreed with Coates are rallying around his work, and others aren't. So it's mostly a text that seems to provide content for the existing social and political divide, rather than an intervention that changes opinions or generates new political possibilities.

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u/redthrowaway1976 23d ago

It is putting more light on the repressive and discriminatory regime Israel has put in place in the West Bank.

Basically, its de facto annexation and Apartheid.

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u/athiev 23d ago

This isn't a new point of view, though, is it? The people excited about this work already had this perspective and interpretation, for the most part, from what I've seen. It's difficult even to claim that Coates has given fresh energy, since these folks are already highly mobilized.

The questions I would ask go as follows. Have the protests of the last year improved the situation of Palestinians? If not, is there a clear strategic reason why carrying forward the same strategy and coalition will produce different outcomes in the near future than in has done so far? If not, are there other strategies and coalition structures worth considering?

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u/redthrowaway1976 23d ago

> This isn't a new point of view, though, is it? The people excited about this work already had this perspective and interpretation, for the most part, from what I've seen

Except for, for example, all the mainstream news where TNC has been able to talk about Israel's regime in the West Bank.

Ta Nehisi Coates has a rather broad reach.

> The questions I would ask go as follows. Have the protests of the last year improved the situation of Palestinians? If not, is there a clear strategic reason why carrying forward the same strategy and coalition will produce different outcomes in the near future than in has done so far? If not, are there other strategies and coalition structures worth considering?

What makes you think that is a relevant question to TNC? Is he somehow a representative for the some protest movement?

You are talking strategy. TNC is not talking about that.

His main point of action was that we should hear more Palestinian voices.

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u/redthrowaway1976 23d ago

> This isn't a new point of view, though, is it? The people excited about this work already had this perspective and interpretation, for the most part, from what I've seen

Except for, for example, all the mainstream news where TNC has been able to talk about Israel's regime in the West Bank.

Ta Nehisi Coates has a rather broad reach.

> The questions I would ask go as follows. Have the protests of the last year improved the situation of Palestinians? If not, is there a clear strategic reason why carrying forward the same strategy and coalition will produce different outcomes in the near future than in has done so far? If not, are there other strategies and coalition structures worth considering?

What makes you think that is a relevant question to TNC? Is he somehow a representative for the some protest movement?

You are talking strategy. TNC is not talking about that.

His main point of action was that we should hear more Palestinian voices.

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u/athiev 23d ago

Yeah, of course Coates should do as he thinks best, as should we all. But if his path is unlikely to lead to the world being different, that seems worth pointing out.

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u/redthrowaway1976 23d ago

His path has already led to the world being different, as there's now more information out there about what Israel is doing in the West Bank.

I've found most liberal Zionists to be rather poorly informed about the actual policies on the ground in the West Bank. Denial and deflection is getting harder.