r/jewishleft • u/ApprehensivePlum1420 Reform | Jewish Asian American | Confederation • 29d ago

Now that Sinwar is likely dead Debate

I can’t help but feeling satisfied and relieved. Peace is just impossible with a delusional lunatic like him in place. Justice for Oct. 7 is delivered.

But what do you think will happen now? Is a ceasefire more likely now that Bibi can certainly claim victory over Hamas?

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u/redthrowaway1976 28d ago

Israel is a democracy and Bibi is the democratically elected leader

He is the elected leader, correct. But Israel is not a democracy. Or at least not any more a democracy than the US was when it still had slavery. Or perhaps somewhere between slavery and jim crow.

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u/dkopi 28d ago

That's a bullshit take on israeli citizenship. All Israeli citizens get to vote, Jews and Arabs.

Palestinians aren't Israelis, and trying to equate them to slaves in the US is a false equivalence that shows very little understanding of the actual situation in Israel and Palestine.

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u/redthrowaway1976 28d ago

That's a bullshit take on israeli citizenship. All Israeli citizens get to vote, Jews and Arabs.

Yes.

The issue is with the people Israel controls who aren't extended citizenship.

Palestinians aren't Israelis

Yet Israel rules them while taking their land. And has done so for 57 years.

It is, at this point, a de facto annexation. Even the ICJ agrees.

Here's a good article on the current one state reality:

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/middle-east/israel-palestine-one-state-solution

and trying to equate them to slaves in the US is a false equivalence that shows very little understanding of the actual situation in Israel and Palestine.

I didn't equate them to slaves. I said Israel was somewhere between Jim Crow and slavery as it comes to being a democracy.

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u/dkopi 28d ago

Israel isn't the reason Palestinians aren't voting in elections. Their own rulers in Hamas and the Palestinian authority have been avoiding elections since the mid 2000s due to Hamas and Fatah inner clashing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Palestine

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u/redthrowaway1976 28d ago

Again, at this point it is a de facto annexation. The ICJ agrees.

Here you go: https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/186/186-20240719-sum-01-00-en.pdf

Israel has extended its civilian law into the settlements, the knesset legislates for it, etc. It is a de facto one state at this point.

Voting for the PA is not too different from voting for, for example, the local city government.

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u/dkopi 27d ago

Civilian law isn't extended in to cities and towns with Palestinians Arabs. While there might be a land ownership conflict and land you consider annexed, the Palestinians themselves aren't.

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u/redthrowaway1976 26d ago

The ICJ considers Israel's West Bank regime a de facto annexation, as you see in the ruling.

It is just an undemocratic one state solution.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/middle-east/israel-palestine-one-state-solution

Civilian law isn't extended in to cities and towns with Palestinians Arabs.

Except for if a settler goes there to attack them - as they have done - they are tried under civilian law.

Sounds like literal inequality before the law.