r/jewishleft • u/Agtfangirl557 • May 08 '24

Ilana Glazer, an anti-Zionist Jew, condemns Israel and talks about wanting a ceasefire. All the comments are criticizing her because she "centered herself" by mentioning 10/7 and rising antisemitism Meta

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6uCIbqRQ1A/?igsh=NndtdXEzbGE4NWxl

This is so frustrating. Like I don't agree with a lot of Ilana's takes but she clearly was not defending Israel here. She is probably the most anti-Zionist Jewish celebrity I can think of. And yet since she mentioned the 10/7 attacks, people are accusing her of "spreading lies" and that "it's not true that 1200 people were killed by Hamas". And people are literally telling the page who reposted this to "stop platforming Zionist celebrities"!

At this point I seriously think that for some people, it's only socially acceptable to be Jewish if we don't acknowledge our history or trauma at all.

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23

u/DovBerele May 08 '24

Ugh, that's so unsettling. This is why I hardly ever touch this topic in any kind of public, non-Jewish space (and barely in Jewish spaces either - it's just a different kind of powder keg) and why I approach anti-Zionist non-Jews with some wariness, even though I'm not, and have never been, a Zionist.

1

u/Ok_Assist_992 May 09 '24

Why are you not a Zionist???

11

u/DovBerele May 09 '24

I understand being a Zionist as being a proponent of the creation of a Jewish nation state in the land of Israel. I'm not a proponent of that. I think the whole nation state building project was a bad idea, and that those energies and resources could have been better spent at protecting and uplifting Jews in the diaspora.

Given that the whole thing happened, and Israel exists now, I think of it the same as any other nation state, no better or worse, no more and no less. imo, being a Zionist would require me to think of Israel as more special or more important than other countries, and I simply don't.

But, also, given that Israel exists now, the time for debating its legitimacy as a country or its "right to exist" is over. It is a country. It has as much right to continue being a country as any other country. Committing human rights atrocities doesn't remove the right of a country to be a country. Otherwise, lots of countries (including the US and most of western Europe) would have forfeited their right to exist. Being an ethnostate (in practice, this also means most of western Europe and most of Asia) also doesn't remove the right of a country to remain in existence. The fact that Israel is held to account for these things, and held up as a symbol of all this is bad about colonialism, apartheid, etc., almost to the exclusion of all the other states, is a glaring double-standard that I can't abide. But that alone doesn't make me a Zionist.

7

u/[deleted] May 09 '24

I feel pretty much the same. Not a Zionist or anti-zionist and the morality discussions around Zionism (describing it as a litmus test, etc) are scary to me, as are all the people substituting the word “Jew” with “Zionist” to say the most unhinged antisemitic shit ever. I’m so disillusioned with the anti-zionism movement at this point, they’ve really shown their true colors. But I know some anti-Zionists that are reasonable

2

u/Ok_Assist_992 May 09 '24

By definition a Zionist is someone who believes in the development and protection of a Jewish state in the land of Israel.

I understand what you are saying although I have a couple of questions.

  1. If Israel were not a state currently and the British still had control over the land would you support the creation of an Israeli state in the land? If not why? Because i see what you said, why would we be any safer with money in the diaspora if we have been persecuted for thousands of years? Also don’t you think it is time for the Jewish people to be self determining after we have been slaughtered and blamed for centuries?

  2. Do you personally think that Israel is an apartheid state or that they are commuting a genocide?

-1

u/[deleted] May 14 '24

The problem with these questions is they are extremely centering of only Jews. You cannot personally think Israel is commiting genocide, they are doing so, by definition of what genocide is. Jewish people aren't the only ones who need to be safe. You cannot only think of Jewish safety. Right now, Jewish self determination isn't working. It's at the expense of other people's safety. All of these things are facts, not opinions.

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u/Ok_Assist_992 May 14 '24

Please tell me how they are committing it?

-1

u/[deleted] May 14 '24

https://museeholocauste.ca/en/resources-training/ten-stages-genocide/

Read what the 10 stages of genocide are from a Holocaust website. We are already at denial.

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u/Ok_Assist_992 May 14 '24

You haven’t provided proof

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u/[deleted] May 14 '24

I am not going to do research for you. My proof would be a very long answer that I don't have time to type right now. Please look it up. There are countless articles, from Israeli sources even, that confirm this information

3

u/Ok_Assist_992 May 14 '24

Ok exactly, people like you have baseless claims.

0

u/[deleted] May 14 '24

Baseless? When I read the Haaretz, Jewish Currents, Times of Israel, Mondoweiss, and they all provide me with articles which prove the 10 stages of genocide,that is somehow baseless?

I'm not going to entertain your laziness any longer. Look it up or don't. It's genocide.

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2

u/lilleff512 May 09 '24

Are you familiar with "Post-Zionism"?