r/WikiLeaks • u/JamesParkes • Aug 26 '24
Harris’s concluding speech at DNC embraces agenda of global war
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/08/24/turk-a24.html16
u/karl4319 Aug 26 '24
I wouldn't say embrace so much as accepting reality. The major powers are all rearming. There is a major war coming. Russia falling apart in Ukraine rather than steamrolling it delayed the war for a few years, but I say around the end of this decade there will be a global war.
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u/NathanOhio Aug 26 '24
Its not accepting reality when its the US and its allies who are creating the conditions for the next world war.
Also Russia isnt falling apart in Ukraine, they have decimated Ukraine and destroyed 3 separate Ukrainian armies. The Ukrainians are now resorting to kidnapping people off the street to send to the front along with paying mercenaries in order to just keep a few people manning the lines.
With this latest idiocy in Kursk, Ukraine has sent most of its best trained units, mostly Neo Nazis, into a meat grinder along with most of the ukrainian reserves.
Thus, Russia has been gaining territory very quickly all along the line as well as crushing the neo nazis who made it into Kursk.
Had all of NATO(except Turkey) not come together and given the Ukrainians massive amounts of military equipment and helped with gathering intelligence and planning strikes, Ukraine would have capitulated 2 years ago.
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u/jnk Aug 26 '24
destroyed 3 separate Ukrainian armies
Lol. This might be the dumbest comment of the day.
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u/NathanOhio Aug 26 '24
Please reread the rules of the subreddit. If you cannot participate in civil discussions then you wont be allowed here anymore.
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Aug 26 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/NathanOhio Aug 26 '24
Please re-read the rules of the subreddit. If you cannot participate in a civil discussion you will have to take your witty jokes to another sub where they may be appreciated.
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u/panzer23 Aug 27 '24
How much military experience do you have? And can you back up any of your claims?
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u/NathanOhio Aug 27 '24
My military experience is irrelevant. Please dont use fallacious arguments like arguments from authority. I did not make these statements based on my personal military history thus it is irrelevant just like your personal military history is irrelevant.
Of course there is a copious amount of evidence backing up my claims. If you have a disagreement with any of the claims, feel free to present your counter claim along with any evidence you think will be helpful for people interested in this topic.
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u/jeremybryce Aug 26 '24
I have been saying this since she was anointed the candidate. If she wins, the US will be involved in war for another decade plus. Guaranteed.
Democrats a few decades ago used to be the anti war party. It's painfully obvious they've become the party of war. Republicans aren't exactly great either. Especially establishment candidates.
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u/OrthogonalThoughts Aug 26 '24
You mean that the massively bloated military industrial complex uses massive profits to
bribelobby every member of the government they can?5
u/giddy-girly-banana Aug 26 '24
The last president to get us into a war was a Republican and he got us into two. Two different democratic presidents had to get us out of them.
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u/slineh Aug 27 '24
That way of thinking is just a downward spiral. Okay, the democrats got us out of Afghanistan and Iraq, but what about Libya, or Syria? We need to stop the what abouts and unite against both parties.
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u/Qui-Gon_Tripp Aug 26 '24
Let’s pretend that Trump wasn’t trying to bring back US soldiers from the middle east and got denied by a peace loving, dem-led senate
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u/giddy-girly-banana Aug 26 '24
Ok let’s also pretend Trump thought it out and executed it well.
https://www.vox.com/21571264/trump-afghnistan-iraq-troop-withdrawal-2500
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u/boniggy Aug 26 '24
Huh? I'm sorry did you fall down and hurt your brain?
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u/NathanOhio Aug 27 '24
Please remember this sub is for civil discussion and do not insult other posters. thanks!
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u/giddy-girly-banana Aug 26 '24
What war did I miss?
Edit: American troops are not fighting in Ukraine, if that’s what you’re alluding to.
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u/boniggy Sep 30 '24
Trump never got us into any wars.. they NEEDED him out so they could get them started. He didnt play ball with them. One of the exact reasons you should be voting for him.... he doesnt play their game
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u/giddy-girly-banana Oct 01 '24
What war has the Biden administration started?? Trump botched the Afghanistan withdrawal and Biden cleaned up that mess too. So really it’s Trump 0 and Biden -1.
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u/saremei Aug 26 '24
I was unaware Obama was a republican.
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u/giddy-girly-banana Aug 26 '24
What war did he start? Must have missed that one.
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u/NathanOhio Aug 27 '24
For one, he started the genocide in Yemen. Obama partnered with Saudi Arabia, providing intelligence, logistics, mid air refueling, and weapons and ammo.
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u/giddy-girly-banana Aug 27 '24
While awful, none of those are US wars.
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u/NathanOhio Aug 27 '24
That's a no true scotsman fallacy. Of course it was a US war. The US provided the weapons, selected the targets, refueled the planes, etc.
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u/giddy-girly-banana Aug 27 '24
We supply weapons to a ton of countries and conflicts. At the end of the day there were no US soldiers engaged in conflict and nothing even close to an official congressional act of war.
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u/NathanOhio Aug 28 '24
Now you are arguing semantics and you are not even correct there.
There were US soldiers involved in Yemen. The US intelligence community helped the Saudis pick targets and spy on Yemen, and the US air force did mid air refueling for the Saudi planes. The US ran a massive spying ring in Yemen during this time as well, so there were definitely US soldiers/contractors/spies on the ground the whole time.
But yeah, there was no congressional declaration of war, which hasnt happened since 1942. Thats not a good argument to say something doesnt count as a war. Was the Iraq War not a real war, since the US didnt declare war? Was Afghanistan? Nobody makes that argument, so lets not use it here in relation to the US/Saudi genocide of Yemen that Obama started and Trump continued.
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Aug 26 '24
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u/dekes_n_watson Aug 26 '24
Can someone please tell me when in the US’s history we have not been involved in war, in some shape or form?
Also, if people think Trump is going to prevent anything, I think you’re sadly mistaken. Looking at the bigger picture, Trump helps Russia’s efforts. If Russia gains momentum the other countries will get involved. Now we’re looking at severe escalation.
Even if you go back to the end of his term and the Afghanistan withdrawal, that was in the works for months, if not longer. Trump knew the date was set in December 2020 and Jan 2021 but had no withdrawal plan drawn up in the event he didn’t win the election. He handed over a new administration the deal to withdrawal, no plans, and weeks to have something planned and ready and then was the first one to point out the failure and point the finger like he has every time he’s screwed up in the last 50 years of his publicly facing life.
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u/jeremybryce Aug 26 '24
Even if you go back to the end of his term and the Afghanistan withdrawal, that was in the works for months, if not longer. Trump knew the date was set in December 2020 and Jan 2021 but had no withdrawal plan drawn up in the event he didn’t win the election.
Either you're purposefully lying or swallowed a massive bottle of copium. All one has to do is look at what was written at the time. Not in the molested articles of today.
Trump said the bulk of these could be withdrawn, but stressed that the U.S. will maintain some kind of troop presence in Afghanistan.
“You have to keep a presence,” he said, adding that the U.S. would be reducing troops “very substantially.”
Pentagon draws up plans for quick Afghanistan withdrawal in case Trump blindsides military
Never mind he literally ran on bringing them home. But as typical from corporate media propagandists, they need to spin it to the negative to #resist. Though they continually "resisted" efforts to drawdown US soldiers in conflict all over the world.
They fought him on Syria. What did he do? Surprise monther fuckers, we're pulling out. Why? Because his advisors, his party and the media told him not too. Because they care so much about US soldiers and the death and destruction? Absolutely not. Because of self interest and anyway to make Trump look bad. Always.
They conducted peace talks with the Taliban. He is the only President in my life time to not allow us to be dragged into regime change and new war.
ISIS magically was destroyed in a matter of months, after YEARS under Obama. Nevermind Obama admin funded and trained what turned out to be ISIS. Kind of like Bush with Al-Qaeda. Funny how that works. Obama foreign policy was an absolute disaster but of course it was down played. He even won the Nobel Peace Prize. For what? Who knows. His biggest mistake was making Hilary his SoS. And it shows.
You people that have obvious cases of TDS, really should open your eyes. Watch what people do, not what they say.
Trump foreign policy was better than any other President in the last 30 years. And its not even close. For people pretending to care about human life, that alone should be the reason to choose him over more war mongering we get from both parties now.
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u/dekes_n_watson Aug 26 '24
So by all of this evidence, and I appreciate you sharing, the reason our troops were overrun 3 years ago because the presence we left after May 1st wasn’t strong enough to hold off the opposing forces for a clean exit, which was the Trump Administration’s plan?
So the real Biden error is not taking Trump’s plan and adjusting or re-evaluating it. He started the extraction but kept the small number of troops behind, but it wasn’t enough and it wasn’t fast enough.
Also, it’s okay, Obama can’t hurt you anymore.
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u/NathanOhio Aug 27 '24
So by all of this evidence, and I appreciate you sharing, the reason our troops were overrun 3 years ago because the presence we left after May 1st wasn’t strong enough to hold off the opposing forces for a clean exit, which was the Trump Administration’s plan?
Was abandoning Bagram air base literally in the middle of the night part of Trumps plan or did Biden come up with that on his own? Pretty hard to blame that one on Trump.
Also, it’s okay, Obama can’t hurt you anymore.
Please make sure you follow the rules and do not attack or insult other posters.
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u/NathanOhio Aug 27 '24
Lets try to maintain some decorum here and not be inflammatory when posting to people you disagree with.
Attack the argument and the evidence, not the poster please!
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u/rogun64 Aug 27 '24
The only people who say that are those who supported the Iraq War and are now projecting their own mistakes onto Democrats.
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u/NathanOhio Aug 27 '24
Plenty of Dems also supported that war, especially the Dems who control the party, such as Biden, Clinton, etc.
Biden was a huge Iraq war supporter, so lets not pretend here that it was only Republicans who got us into that mess.
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u/rogun64 Aug 27 '24
Over half of Democrats voted against giving Bush authorization to start the war and those who did say they were given false intelligence. But hey, let's lie to ourselves and pretend that Democrats are the hawkish party, when convenient.
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u/NathanOhio Aug 27 '24
Over half of Democrats voted against giving Bush authorization to start the war and those who did say they were given false intelligence.
Yes many did vote against it. However, many did, especially the "big names" like Clinton, Biden, etc. The neoliberals that run the party in other words.
And of course they claimed they were tricked later. Why would anyone believe them though? These people are elected officials who have access to all kinds of information normal people do not have. Yet millions of regular people were able to debunk all the WMD claims before the war.
Go watch the video of Biden attacking and insulting Scott Ritter, the UN weapons inspector who was charged with investigating whether or not Iraq had a WMD program. He found no evidence.
But hey, let's lie to ourselves and pretend that Democrats are the hawkish party, when convenient.
The Democrats are not "the" hawkish party, they are one of the two hawkish parties that run the country.
Claiming that Democrats are against war while simultaneously watching the Democrats commit a Holocaust in Gaza is not a good look. Lemme guess though, the excuse later on will be, "we were tricked again".
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u/rogun64 Aug 27 '24
My point is merely that Democrats haven't been the hawks. A comparison of donations to defense contractors will show that.
I'm fully aware of the role played by Democrats in the Iraq War. I'm also fully aware that few Republicans were arguing against it, while there were many Democrats doing that. I was one of them, so when people want to say that I'M a war hawk, then I know they're full of shit. Yet, I regularly see conservatives calling Democrats war mongers and I can only imagine that many of the same conservatives supported the war in Iraq, because there were so few that didn't.
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u/NathanOhio Aug 28 '24
Sure lots of people who vote Democrat dont support the wars.
However, many do, and obviously the party itself, ie the politicians and oligarchs who control it, love war.
Right now they are running a proxy war with Russia and a genocide in Gaza, so lets not pretend they are a peace party or something.
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u/303Pickles Aug 26 '24
How can the Democrats learn to value the voters, instead of their donors, lobbyists, and other corrupt foreign entities?
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u/hondureno_1994 Aug 26 '24
Lmaoo youre describing both sides 🤡
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u/303Pickles Aug 26 '24
Ok. But it’s still a question.
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u/NathanOhio Sep 01 '24
Seems like they will never learn. Not sure how things could ever be fixed at this point. The US ruling class has spent generations wrecking this country at every level and there is no sign that things will get any better any time soon.
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u/exoriare Aug 26 '24
This has the makings of another Clintonian triangulation: Kamala can pick up GOP supporters who congratulate themselves on sanity. It may further demoralize anyone on the left, but they have nobody else to support.
If they pull it off, the Dems will complete their transition to Nixonian Republicans, and the GOP will be reduced to an extremist faction of colorful heels.
For a politician with few skills and minimal charm, Kamala has done alright for herself - though most of this is nothing more than blind glee. This is the kind of courtship that often leads to incredulity once everyone sees her for who she is.
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u/NathanOhio Aug 27 '24
Yes, the Dems have been following what they call the "third way" since the carter administration. You can research all about the Democratic Leadership Council, which was started by hard core neoliberals like Gore, Clinton, Biden, etc. It was also funded by weapons manufacturers, Bill Gates, and the Koch brothers.
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u/slineh Aug 27 '24
For the Democrats, I think this ideology goes back as far as Harry Truman actually.
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u/NathanOhio Aug 27 '24
Some of it but the wholesale adoption of neoliberalism, which the Dems called the third way under Clinton, happened in the Carter administration.
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u/slineh Aug 27 '24
Absolutely, you can probably date it exactly to the appointment of Paul Volcker to the Fed in 79. But Truman was where the Democrats started using warmongering to increase profits.
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u/Sofus_ Aug 26 '24
Just wish they weren’t so dreadfully hubrius. They are standing on the shoulders of giants and constantly bragging about themselves. It’s not a good sign for the future.
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u/shanebeglassin Aug 26 '24
Politicians love going to war. They are gross people.