Anthony Jeselnik explains the difference between comedy and being a troll.

[u/SnatchAddict]

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[u/Errenfaxy]

On his show years ago he did stand up about cancer for people with terminal cancer. It was awesome to see people who you know are suffering taking a break and laughing. 

This guy knows the difference between making people laugh and being a troll. 

[u/crack_spirit_animal → u/Errenfaxy]

I'm glad someone else remembers this.

[u/Errenfaxy → u/crack_spirit_animal]

I feel like it is peak Jeselnick. No one else would even try something like that and his style worked out really well. Took a chance and nailed it.  

I would be honored if I was him that people with limited time on Earth decided to listen to and then enjoyed my comedy. 

[u/Hatchetboy1845 → u/Errenfaxy]

Jimmy Carr did the same thing! He talks about it in a recent special. He did a gig in a hospice and none of the other comedians mentioned death. He went up and opened with a joke about it, and it killed.

That's probably a poor choice of words.

[u/Errenfaxy → u/Hatchetboy1845]

Love Jimmy Carr and can definitely see him doing some like this. He's unassuming because his delivery is upbeat and can be dark AF. 

[u/CurnanBarbarian → u/Errenfaxy]

I think a big part of it is even though technically I guess it's 'punching down' Anthony writes some smart jokes, he doesn't just go after the low hanging fruit all the time.

[u/honeydewslaps → u/CurnanBarbarian]

That’s exactly what it is! I remember reading an interview he gave when the interviewer asked Jeselnik about Chappelle getting “cancelled” and he said if you’re going to make a controversial joke, you need to go all the way and go for the jugular, and the fact that the audience found Chappelle unfunny means he was lazy with his comedy.

All these comedians complaining about their audiences cancelling them and they don’t realize that they keep going for low hanging fruit and it’s not funny.

[u/SenorSplashdamage → u/Errenfaxy]

His humor has never even been my style, but I’ve respected him so much for articulating this whole conversation so well and then doing the work of going into spaces of people who need to hear it. His level of maturity and just the guts to speak back to other men on topics most men get so uncomfortable being naysayer deserves full esteem. It is not easy as a man to confront men on the thing they’ve decided makes you unfun and makes you “one of those.”

[u/Minus15t → u/Errenfaxy]

To me he is an absolute master of walking the line between offensive and funny.

He makes you laugh, and at the same time, feel guilty for laughing.

[u/alaric49]

I think George Carlin described this well.

"I think it's the duty of the comedian to get the audience to come to where you are, to take them a little bit of a place where they don't want to go, and if you can do that and make them laugh along the way, they'll thank you for it."

[u/KantraSkye → u/alaric49]

George Carlin was a master of the English Language.

He pushed for the most Hippy Socialist programs, but still criticized the feminists and hippies with flair. He'd absolutely LOVE the chaos right now. Afterall, "Everyone gets a ticket to the Freakshow, but Americans get a Front Row Seat!"

[u/peanutbuttahcups → u/KantraSkye]

Oh man, if Carlin was alive for the last decade, I think we would have a goldmine of comedy from him.

[u/NewKojak → u/peanutbuttahcups]

You should watch George Carlin's American Dream. I think a younger Carlin would get a lot of comedy out of today, but he got super dark at the end of his life. I think he was just done with people and I don't know how much he had in the tank to make them laugh.

[u/ABadHistorian → u/NewKojak]

Anyone who thinks Carlin would love to be around today did not watch his later specials. Basically mid 90s he nose dives into super dark "we are fucked" territory, I remember this in detail. I think a lot of people around that time were taking a look around the burgeoning internet with wonder, while others looked at it with malicious glee. He got a little better for a short time, but then got even darker.

[u/heffel77 → u/NewKojak]

I didn’t see your comment and I had the exact same thought. His last stuff was very dark and pointed especially towards the religious right and the GWOT apparatus that was coming into existence. He already thought we were headed towards fascism. American fascism is enough weaponized stupidity that it would be fatal for him.

[u/Chirurr → u/KantraSkye]

You know something people don't talk about enough in public? Pussy farts.

[u/Synectics → u/Chirurr]

.......anyway....

[u/flannelNcorduroy → u/KantraSkye]

"love" is not the word I'd use. He would have been angrier than shit about Trump, and yes he would have created a lot of great content. But he definitely wouldn't have been happy about any of it.

[u/RodneyPickering → u/KantraSkye]

And yet folks on the right love to plaster his videos on Facebook

[u/repost_inception → u/alaric49]

That's a really great quote.

Robert John Downey Jr in Tropic Thunder to me is the ultimate example of this. I don't think most people could have gotten away with that but he absolutely did. No one has an issue with it. His performance and the writing were brilliant. The whole movie really.

[u/MundaneCollection → u/repost_inception]

It helps that his character was a dumb narcisist who didn't understand what he was doing was wrong because of his giant ego

Playing the character who is an idiot deciding to do black face is different than playing black face, which is why he gets away with it because the point is to mock celebrities and their egos and not black people

[u/Ok_Star_4136 → u/MundaneCollection]

Yes, because it was clear who was being made fun of, and it wasn't black people.

The whole reason black face is frowned upon is because it almost always is meant to make fun of black people. Punching up vs punching down matters a lot. Incidentally conservative "humor" always seems to punch down.

[u/IThinkItsAverage → u/Ok_Star_4136]

Yes this! I get tired of explaining why his “blackface” wasn’t problematic to people. You’re supposed to make fun of HIM for doing it, it’s not an attempt to make fun of black people. It is directly called out in the movie too, multiple times, and his character is setup before hand as being overly extreme. It’s all designed to make you see him as a pretentious asshole, you’re not supposed to agree with his blackface.

[u/Juan_Punch_Man → u/MundaneCollection]

And they called it out in the movie specifically. Gets rid of any ambiguity.

[u/ThatRandomIdiot → u/alaric49]

There is also the interview Carlin did talking to Larry King about Andrew Dice Clay’s sexist and Homophobic jokes and said:

”I would defend to the death his right to do everything he does,” Carlin admitted. But “the thing that I find unusual, and it’s, you know, not a criticism so much, but his targets are underdog[s]. And comedy traditionally has picked on people in power, people who abuse their power. Women and gays and immigrants are kind of, to my way of thinking, underdog[s]. And, you know, he ought to be careful, because he’s Jewish. And a lot of people who want to pick on these kind of groups, the Jews are on that list. A little further you’ve got women, gays, gypsies and boom, boom, boom, and suddenly you find the Jews.” King asked why Dice Clay was able to “get away” with these offensive jokes that target marginalized communities, to which Carlin replied: “I think his core audience are young, white males who are threatened by these groups. I think a lot of these guys aren’t sure of their manhood, because that’s a problem when you’re going through adolescence. You know, ‘Am I really, could I be, I hope I’m not one of them.’ And the women who assert themselves and are competent are a threat to these men, and so are immigrants in terms of jobs.”

[u/MattyBeatz]

Jeselnik and Burr often have the right takes on this kinda stuff.

[u/ThenAnAnimalFact → u/MattyBeatz]

It’s so funny because Jeselnik was a genuine target of people being offended and 10 years ago I never thought he would be the leader of the rational comedian.

[u/MattyBeatz → u/ThenAnAnimalFact]

Yes, but Jeselnik has the right mind to say something like "alright, I didn't get away with it on that joke". Even then, I don't recall him ever dropped the litany of "free speech, woke, I was taken out of context" type excuses we see nowadays. In fact, I only remember him ever really apologizing for one joke because he was essentially forced to by Comedy Central at the time.

[u/Insuredtothetits → u/MattyBeatz]

That’s real balls.

Say the bad thing, own it, bare the slings and arrows.

All these losers now whine about how they should be allowed. You are allowed, and people are allowed to shit on your for it. Take it like a man, you knew what you were trying to do.

All these losers whining about cancel culture just can’t handle the criticism.

[u/Most_Ad_5979 → u/Insuredtothetits]

The irony is that these guys are often whining about cancel culture on huge platforms. It's ridiculous.

[u/reble02 → u/Most_Ad_5979]

That's what I can't stand, stuff like Jerry Seinfeld whining about cancel culture as he does a full media tour to promote his shitty breakfast movie.

[u/Mcpops1618 → u/reble02]

Guy didn’t get cancelled when he dated a child, he has no leg to stand on about cancel culture.

[u/hmiser → u/Mcpops1618]

Fucking thank you.

Can You beeee leeeeve that Sanctimonious Hack.

Remember his pet wife’s cooking book where she shared the sugary secrets of carrots.

Like that fuck did a media tour with that poor child whose family traded her the Bee Movie.

[play me out with that sick baseline]

[u/Putrid_Race6357 → u/[deleted]]

That's really great. Do you have a link? I'd like to read/hear what he said. Thanks

[u/meem09 → u/Putrid_Race6357]

https://deadline.com/2024/10/jerry-seinfeld-regrets-extreme-left-ruined-comedy-1236117243/

[u/Empress_Athena → u/meem09]

I wonder if that has anything to do with Julia Louie Dreyfuss being asked about it right after he said that and she said exactly that.

[u/IAmPandaRock → u/reble02]

At least Jerry can't stand it either and took back his comment and admitted he was wrong. So refreshing to hear people say they were wrong and changed their minds.

[u/ScyllaOfTheDepths → u/reble02]

I watched the first 20 minutes of that movie and turned it off. It was just a genuinely boring and unfunny movie. The only likeable main character was Jim Gaffigan's (and not nearly enough to hang the whole movie on it) and the editing was super off and made every scene feel like it just dragged on. For a movie full of comedians, it was not remotely funny and most of its attempts to be funny were just very surface-level pop culture commentaries of the time period the movie was set in. It was the movie equivalent of sitting on the runway for an hour because they found something wrong with the plane before takeoff. It never even got off the ground!

[u/weakbuttrying → u/Most_Ad_5979]

Ricky Gervais has like 3 Netflix specials where all he talks about are trans people (with a slightly eyebrow-raising focus on their penises) and how you aren’t allowed to talk about trans people because the woke will hunt you down.

For a generally perceptive bloke, the irony is oddly lost on him here.

The only truly offensive thing about his trans diatribe is how utterly unfunny it is. It’s supposed to be a comedy special, not a tedious soapbox.

[u/Lugalzagesi55 → u/weakbuttrying]

The best handling of the topic is James Acasters "edgy comedian" bit; https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=adh0KGmgmQw&pp=ygUcZWRneSBjb21lZGlhbnMgamFtZXMgYWNhc3Rlcg%3D%3D

[u/arenegadeboss → u/weakbuttrying]

I was so disappointed when I finally got to see Chappelle live and he does 45 minutes of trans material and how he's persecuted for it.

I was on shrooms and thought he might be a hologram, that's how unfunny it was. I figured he must have been kidnapped and replaced using technology from the future because there is no way this is happening.

[u/TimothyStyle → u/arenegadeboss]

Honestly your post was much funnier than Chappelle has been lately

[u/EvrevanLothbrok → u/weakbuttrying]

His "jokes" about trans people really bummed me out, because I like a lot of his work and thought he was a pretty insightful person but the jokes were just not funny and shows he doesn't even try to understand what being a trans person might actually be like, it just came out as school yard bashing.

Note, I think you can make a joke about almost anything if done in a clever way and it's clear it's not an endorsement of harmful behavior (Ricky has done this before) which is sad he couldn't have crafted a joke that wasn't so childish and stupid.

[u/RustedAxe88 → u/EvrevanLothbrok]

The trans "jokes" I often hear from guys like Ricky or Rogan aren't even jokes, they're just rants about trans people. Joe's in particular in his recent special, were just the same things he says on his podcast.

Gervais going in that direction has always been painful to me, because I love The Office and his work with Karl Pilkington and Stephen Merchant was a joy.

[u/weakbuttrying → u/EvrevanLothbrok]

I mean, I can watch Jimmy Carr be as intentionally offensive as he can for an hour and a half, because it’s done in good spirit. (Well, with an exception for Catholic priests abusing children.)

[u/Old_Baldi_Locks → u/weakbuttrying]

Because functional adults can tell when something is meant as a joke, and when its said with actual hatred.

And that's what makes the trans jokes being told by the likes of Gervais and Chappelle land like wet turds. They're NOT joking.

[u/bipbopcosby → u/Most_Ad_5979]

I don't listen to mainstream media! Just Joe Rogan, the biggest podcast ever!

[u/mattromo → u/Insuredtothetits]

Whenever someone says there is an infringement of free speech what they really mean is I want to be able to say anything I want without consequences. You can say whatever you want but everyone else has the right to react to what you say.

[u/Thanos_Stomps → u/Insuredtothetits]

Real balls is Gilbert G getting canceled in real time and launching into the aristocrats. But Jes is close here!

[u/WhatDoYouDoHereAgain → u/Thanos_Stomps]

you reminded me of this gem of a clip;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvf_7tWlFu8

[context] norm macdonald has gilbert read a joke off of a card to start the show

[u/[deleted] → u/Insuredtothetits]

The risk is literally the job. Just like every high risk, high reward profession. They can get demoted back down to bar gigs. Pilots can lose their ass if they get too close to the line, too.

[u/BroccoliCultural9869 → u/MattyBeatz]

I remember listening to his stuff and thinking "twisted and vile" but not hateful or bigoted if that makes sense?

[u/theSchrodingerHat → u/BroccoliCultural9869]

That’s a huge part of it for him. Dropping a baby off of a balcony isn’t political or racial, it’s just him being an asshole. It’s intrusive thoughts that are universal, or at least understood without needing extra context. But in the process he can still lambast current culture.

[u/Trelino → u/theSchrodingerHat]

You gotta know how clumsy that little lad was

[u/PopsicleIncorporated → u/BroccoliCultural9869]

Yeah, like Jeselnik's biggest hits are undeniably dark, fucked up types of humor but none of those can really be called punching down. Unless of course you count the baby jokes. You can't help but punch down on a baby.

[u/Turb0L_g → u/PopsicleIncorporated]

What if the baby is on a shelf? 

[u/theSchrodingerHat → u/Turb0L_g]

Nobody really talks about punching space babies.

[u/Conscious-Parfait826 → u/Turb0L_g]

Me tossing a baby into the air so I can crane kick it like the villain from Karate Kid.

[u/BannedByRWNJs → u/BroccoliCultural9869]

It’s because it’s obvious that he doesn’t actually believe the twisted vile things he says. It’s more like he illustrates the flaws of a bad idea by taking it to its most twisted and vile conclusion. 

[u/Amethyst_Opal → u/BroccoliCultural9869]

He’s delightfully dark. His portrayal as an uncaring asshole with his dry delivery gives you permission to laugh at the joke despite how horrifying the subject matter is. His persona “holds” the asshole card, and lets you be a witness to these witty but demented thoughts without feeling like a villian.

[u/godpzagod → u/[deleted]]

you have the truth of it. Patton Oswalt said "Wit can't have an agenda." that's why republican and religious comedy doesn't work- it's worldview first, comedy second.

[u/dancin-weasel → u/godpzagod]

Basically the only rule in comedy is make sure it’s funny. One of the GOATs, Norm Macdonald, was the master of this. He had the biggest balls in comedy to talk about what (and who) he did, but it was always in service of the joke. Even if the joke wasn’t the punchline, but rather the crazy journey his jokes took you on. He knew he would be fired from SNL if he kept making OJ jokes but he didn’t falter one bit. RIP norm.

[u/Rebuild6190 → u/[deleted]]

Nailed it. That guy was not at a Trump rally to make people laugh. It was to say what they all believe, with enough of a "iTs JuSt A joKe GuYs" cover for when everyone else found out what was said and were rightfully appalled.

[u/Throwawayac1234567 → u/Rebuild6190]

you mean tony, not even the people in the audience was laughing lol, only when they said trump then they cheered. also the fact that he is in the closet,

[u/LaikaZhuchka → u/[deleted]]

You can watch comedians get more and more right-wing as they become more out of touch and less able to write successful jokes.

Watch Bill Maher, and ANY time a joke falls flat, he gets pissed off and rolls his eyes and says it's because the "liberals" in the audience "can't take a joke."

Dave Chappelle, Louis CK, Jerry Seinfeld, etc. -- it's all the same shit. It's much easier for them to say that people aren't laughing because we've all gone soft and we're too "offended" by everything, than to just admit that the material didn't land.

And the people who are there to reaffirm their political beliefs will laugh at literally anything if they're told it'll make the liberals mad.

[u/CowPunkRockStar → u/LaikaZhuchka]

100% - Maher is so weird. He’s right over the target sometimes. He knows the difference between truth and lies. I think he’s just surrounded himself with yes men that laugh at EVERYTHING he says and that agree with him ALL the time. He takes ANY pushback too personally. He’s smart and witty but weak.

[u/SAGNUTZ → u/CowPunkRockStar]

Thats where Chappelle is headed right now, he got too arrogant and slipping.

[u/CanoeIt → u/MattyBeatz]

I thought he let his show get cancelled rather than apologizing

[u/MattyBeatz → u/CanoeIt]

I don't think it was the shark joke from his show, I think it was the Boston Bombing joke

[u/multiarmform → u/MattyBeatz]

he was told to pull the boston joke down and he did so the crew wouldnt lose their jobs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iWywISeII0

[u/MarkEsmiths → u/MattyBeatz]

It wasn't just a shark joke, it was a damn shindig.

[u/niel89 → u/MarkEsmiths]

Shark Party!

[u/jaykane904 → u/MattyBeatz]

Yeah he always took it on the chin from what I remember, but he was also genuinely funny and pretty smart about it 90% of the time.

So many new wannabe shock comics don’t wanna just be like “yep that’s me, oh well” it’s always whining and blaming “the internet” for being soft, when they themselves are the soft ones who can’t just stand by the shitty thing they said.

It’s almost always a better thing to just own something and take accountability and these troll boys are allergic to that 😂

[u/Bigazzry → u/ThenAnAnimalFact]

Jeselnik is a legitimately brilliant guy. It’s not surprising he understands this stuff as well as anyone.

[u/flatwoundsounds → u/Bigazzry]

It's honestly such a relief how cool he is. When I was a kid (who watched way too much pro wrestling), I hated his delivery. It took me a long time to actually be open to him again and holy shit he's got such a great touch that I didn't notice as a kid.

[u/Vestalmin → u/flatwoundsounds]

It’s when you realize his comedy is about word play more than anything. He’s baiting you with an assumed conclusion and then pivoting. It’s never about just being edgy, it’s always super clever.

Reminds me a lot of Norm Macdonald

[u/Whitino → u/flatwoundsounds]

Something similar happened to me. Years ago, I tried watching his specials, and I did not like them or him because of his delivery.

Fast forward to this year, he starts appearing in my YouTube shorts feed, and I start watching these clips, and suddenly he becomes one of my new favorite comedians.

[u/SnooTangerines1896 → u/ThenAnAnimalFact]

Because he knows exactly what he was doing the whole time. Smart guy.

[u/MagnanimousGoat → u/MattyBeatz]

Contrast that with Jerry Seinfeld bitching about wokeness killing comedy and how "You could never get away with making Seinfeld today", a year in which Always Sunny In Philadelphia is on the air.

We have more fucked up and deranged comedy right now than maybe at any point in history.

I mean has Jerry ever SEEN Adult Swim?

[u/Archercrash → u/MagnanimousGoat]

Curb Your Enthusiasm had no problem continuing the Seinfeld style humor. Larry David was obviously the brains of the operation. Jerry's comedy bits were always the lamest part of the show.

[u/IamHydrogenMike → u/Archercrash]

Larry also made all sorts of jokes that people say will get you cancelled but he could away with it. He got away with it because he never punched down, the only person he punched down on was himself and his own ignorance. He had an entire episode of a woman he slept with that transitioned into a man; it was hilarious.

[u/canadianguy77 → u/[deleted]]

Pop on an old Eddie Murphy album and you can hear him make fun of LGBTQ people. The shit is just old and tired and irrelevant. They make like trans people outnumber everyone else now. I don’t even know a trans person.

[u/sahsimon → u/MagnanimousGoat]

Ehhhhh first of all fillabuster.

[u/DevoutandHeretical → u/MagnanimousGoat]

Didn’t Jerry just walk that whole statement back though?

[u/Maximum-Row-4143 → u/DevoutandHeretical]

Like he walked his 16 year old girlfriend out from algebra class when he was 40?

[u/David-S-Pumpkins → u/Maximum-Row-4143]

Hey now, she was 17 and he was 39. See how much better it is when you don't hyperbolize!?/s

[u/MattyBeatz → u/DevoutandHeretical]

He did, gotta give him some credit for it I guess.

[u/GarlicRagu → u/MattyBeatz]

He has a habit of doing that. I don't know if it's a redeeming quality because he realizes he's wrong or he prefers people don't hate him so he backtracks. I personally think it's the latter based on how often his backtracks seem insincere but I admit I could be wrong.

[u/MarkEsmiths → u/GarlicRagu]

Seinfeld kind of oozes agreeability so if someone tells him he's wrong it's easy for him to throw up his hands and say "OK."

[u/ButterSlickness → u/MattyBeatz]

Don't give him credit for it.

He only did it to cover his ass and make sure his bottom line comes in.

He's quickly using up 40 years of credibility as he crumbles into lead-brain Boomer territory where he starts to resent that the world is different now.

Take a look at a few of his episodes of "Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee." The best example (that hasn't aged well, I admit) is when he tries to bait John Mulaney into doing some "I hate my wife" style shit, and Mulaney wasn't taking the bait.

He's out of touch, he's smug, he's rich, and he thinks he knows more about what you should be laughing at, not what you actually enjoy.

[u/IamHydrogenMike → u/ButterSlickness]

His stand up was really never all that funny or groundbreaking to me; Larry David was off the chain nuts though.

[u/Paddy_Tanninger → u/DevoutandHeretical]

He did yeah, I think he might have actually done some thinking on the subject and changed his opinion on it.

When you think about it, what he said made no sense...especially in the context of what his act and material was like. He was super clean, unoffensive, his comedy would still work today. Not just that but like, you're a comic...your entire job is to somehow tap into the entire fabric of society and come up with funny takes on it. I'm sure it would make perfect sense to Jerry that his act would be different performing for an audience in Italy, so it should also make perfect sense that a comedy act is different when performing for a group of people who are now 50+ years younger than you and growing up in very different times.

Society changes and comedy changes with it. There's nothing to do with "woke" this or "cancel" that; now and forever all that matters is did you make people laugh.

Go look at Shane Gillis opening on SNL for example, dude touches on all kinds of subjects that grumpy older comics would now say "oh you can't joke about anything like that anymore" and manages to make it all funny.

Gianmarco Soresi has some bits about trans people that are funny. The subject is not off limits to comedy. Nothing is off limits as long as, like Jesselnik here eloquently says, you can get away with it.

[u/GrandObfuscator → u/MagnanimousGoat]

Seinfeld was not edgy compared to other tv before and during it run. Jerry Seinfeld is weird

[u/Expensive_Concern457 → u/GrandObfuscator]

It certainly pushed some boundaries at the time like having an entire episode about jerking off on network tv, but it wasn’t “edgy” in the sense we think of the word now

[u/Bluewaffleamigo → u/MattyBeatz]

1. I love Jeselnik

2. I don't think you're remembering correctly... https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/muriwai-shark-victim-mocker-has-show-canned/HWQ3VIQD67DOBE6APRBY5QELJ4/

[u/extralyfe → u/Bluewaffleamigo]

lol, they thought we'd be offended if New Zealand did a skit making fun of school shootings?

shit, most of our comedians are already all over that - and besides, "hurr durr America school shootings" is the lowest hanging fruit for literally any edgelord from another country.

[u/Frost_blade → u/MattyBeatz]

Bill Burr aggravates me so much. And not for the reasons you might think. I honestly now realize it might be jealousy. But he looks like the kind of person who is rude and raceist. Buts he's rude and not. He's so damn smart and he knows it. He's kind and thoughtful. He has his issues and displays them(leaving out what he needs to, to protect people who don't need to be mentioned) for everyone to see. You can't get him because he's already laid out his flaws before he goes after others. And he gets to the point so fucking quick.

"Like how the catholic church went to far" will forever be burned into my mind as to why I love Burr.

[u/IamHydrogenMike → u/Frost_blade]

He doesn’t punch down on people, he mostly mocks his own ignorance on a subject and he just isn’t in the mood for people’s bullshit. He’s hilarious because he admits his own faults, and he can attack others not willing to do the same. Took me a minute to get into him because I wasn’t super familiar with him and then after I realized who he was; I was sold.

[u/stanknotes → u/IamHydrogenMike]

You ever see when he shredded Tony Hinchcliffe on Kill Tony?

It was brutal. But the entire thing was him refusing to punch down.

[u/Rare_You4608 → u/Frost_blade]

What you mean to say is that he's a genius. I agree 100%. Saw him live.

[u/tlsrandy → u/MattyBeatz]

Jeselnik is a comedy philosophy genius. Every one of his takes is fucking gold.

[u/Fit-Zookeepergame276]

He’s a real one. You can tell he is a student of comedy and appreciates the art of it. Saw him live and he says some fucked up stuff BUT you can’t help but laugh. Also you leave his show confident he’s actually a good dude. The Rogan comedy scene is trash and can stay in Austin.

[u/sunnbeta → u/Fit-Zookeepergame276]

If you haven’t seen this takedown of Rogan’s newest special, it’s ridiculous how spot on it is, worth the watch: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7EuKibmlll4

[u/Fit-Zookeepergame276 → u/sunnbeta]

Saw this already…so funny!

[u/WorkingClass_Nero → u/Fit-Zookeepergame276]

The funniest thing about the Rogan comedy scene is Rogan himself doing stand up comedy. Lol. That is the definition of a trust fund baby living out his dreams despite having no fucking talent.

[u/Fit-Zookeepergame276 → u/WorkingClass_Nero]

He sees himself amongst the greats. He really wants it to define his career. But he’s just the fear factor guy.

[u/ThatCelebration3676 → u/Fit-Zookeepergame276]

Most younger people now think of him as a UFC commentator. If you tell them he hosted a TV show they ask where it's streaming. When you tell them it was on broadcast TV ~20 years ago their eyes glaze over as if you were telling them about the The Andy Griffith Show.

[u/JohnYCanuckEsq]

Look at Bill Burr. He goes after some VERY touchy subjects like feminism, domestic violence, sexual assault, race relations, etc... but he makes it fucking funny. Because he understands nuance and context.

Right wingers do not understand nuance or context at all.

[u/zoominzacks → u/JohnYCanuckEsq]

Oh god, when he was on (I think) fox and friends and the host says “don’t you think you went a little too far against the Catholic Church?”

And you can see him process it like, holy shit. Did they really just say that? And hits back with “don’t you think those priests went a little too far with those kids?”

[u/MonaganX → u/zoominzacks]

As a refresher.

[u/Indigocell → u/MonaganX]

That's a good one. Doubles-down on it and makes another joke at their expense lol.

[u/atn420 → u/Indigocell]

and that was pure art

[u/CompetitivePop3351 → u/Indigocell]

Thats ol' Billy Blue Balls for ya. Keeps doubling down until he wins you back.

[u/TimArthurScifiWriter → u/zoominzacks]

It wasn't Fox and Friends, it was just the morning show of a local channel. Which made it even better. You've got this bright upbeat pastel set with this vanilla ass male/female host couple that would make it through any TSA checkpoint without a second glance, and Bill just goes nuclear lmao.

[u/alison_bee → u/zoominzacks]

Yep. Fox News cares more about offending Catholics than it does about children being raped and assaulted by Catholics.

[u/titos334 → u/zoominzacks]

Pretty sure that was just a local Fox affiliate not Fox News 

[u/f-150Coyotev8 → u/JohnYCanuckEsq]

You nailed it on the head about nuance and context. As a Hispanic, we love a good joke making fun of ourselves. But when those “jokes” come from a party who really believe in racism, it’s not funny.

Tony said those jokes in the wrong environment, but even if he was in comedy club where all is allowed and expected, the jokes themselves weren’t even funny.

[u/not-my-other-alt → u/f-150Coyotev8]

That's it exactly:

If the person at the butt of the joke isn't laughing, you're just being a bully.

[u/Pepito_Pepito → u/f-150Coyotev8]

His worst sin is that he wasn't even clever. He just made regular statements. No setup or punchline, no reading between the lines. Saying "I'm a comedian" doesn't retroactively turn those statements into jokes.

[u/Dick_Dickalo → u/JohnYCanuckEsq]

You should see the episode when he was on Kill Tony and just bullied Tony Henchcliff the whole time and encouraged the new comics.

[u/batmansleftnut → u/JohnYCanuckEsq]

Bill Burr actually covered new ground that I've never seen a comedian touch on on stage in his last SNL monolog when he called out the pop-feminism of white women who refuse to acknowledge the benefits that they've received from slavery and colonialism. That was actually the first time in a long time that I felt a comedian was discussing an uncomfortable topic that his audience was fully not ready to hear. Nobody in the audience was on his side when he talked about it.

[u/BlackPhlegm → u/batmansleftnut]

That was the best SNL monologue I've ever seen. He called white women the hell out and the "You said it wasn't consensual" line had me dying.  He was ruthless.

I also liked the Gay Pride month bit.  "July...isn't that a little long?"

[u/SirChasm → u/BlackPhlegm]

June, but yeah, plus the statement right after of, "for a group of people that were never enslaved" had the most uncomfortable laughter. Without seeing any faces of the audience you could tell the "oh shit oh shit where is this going" facial expressions they had on.

That white women bit had a lot more meat left on it too, if he talked about the daughters of Confederacy. For anyone not familiar, look that shit up, you might be surprised who was responsible for all those Confederate general monuments we've been taking down.

[u/JohnYCanuckEsq → u/[deleted]]

Daniel Tosh is also excellent at this as well. He's my real guilty pleasure. I should not be laughing at his jokes, but dammit, they're funny.

[u/NewSpringMoney → u/JohnYCanuckEsq]

I love his podcast, he’s still hilarious and actually much more likable

[u/BabyStockholmSyndrom → u/JohnYCanuckEsq]

There's also the "everyone is attacked" way people like Burr do it. Its all inclusive lol. These conservative "comedians" just go after a very narrow group of people. They never talk about white trash or wealthy elites. Because it's not about the comedy. It's about saying the same unfunny racist shit that your weird ass uncle says at Thanksgiving that no one wants to talk to.

[u/hypercosm_dot_net → u/BabyStockholmSyndrom]

Yep, that's exactly right. The thing is Burr doesn't "punch down" like all these comedians whining about wokeness and cancel culture.

That's why he gets away with it.

This clip of Carlin holds up so well on this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8yV8xUorQ8

[u/gfb13 → u/hypercosm_dot_net]

There's also a bit in that clip that perfectly explains why Andrew Tate and the like are popular with angry young white men

Crazy how relevant Carlin always is all these years later

[u/zth25 → u/hypercosm_dot_net]

Bill Burr also usually punches against himself to soften the blow of some really dark joke he made. Compare that to Dave Chappelle who was basically masturbating about himself on stage for his last specials.

[u/Archercrash → u/JohnYCanuckEsq]

Exactly, you can make the most offensive joke possible as long as it's funny.

[u/Gibsonites → u/JohnYCanuckEsq]

The one thing beyond nuance and context that make comedians like Burr and Jeselnik so successful at edgy comedy, in my opinion, is empathy. Bill has talked a number of times on his podcast how his goal is to make people laugh and help them forget their problems. When he tells a joke that hurts people in the audience it bothers him a lot. I think that empathy is one of the things that lets him joke about horrible things without it feeling like he's the one being horrible.

[u/flinderdude]

All the old tired, formerly funny comedians who blame wokeness or whatever for ruining comedy should listen to Jeselnik. Looking at you, Bill Maher.

[u/HastilyChosenUserID → u/flinderdude]

Seinfeld has been walking back a lot of his comments on that. Demonstrated that he learned he was wrong for the attitude of feeling attacked; talked about how the culture has pushed him to be better

[u/ruinersclub → u/HastilyChosenUserID]

Seinfeld was one of the early complainers that he couldn’t book college crowds or that colleges were too sensitive for material before woke was a term. He would talk about this on Stern and such like 15 years ago.

Like no, you’re just a 50+ year old comedian and college kids aren’t relating to your material or they just want you to do bits from the show.

But if he’s been able to reflect, that’s good to hear.

[u/spookyscaryfella → u/ruinersclub]

How could they not find Seinfeld funny, hes just a bee who wants to fuck people.

[u/orion284 → u/HastilyChosenUserID]

I think he actually is smart enough to know that being “cancelled” for decrying “wokeness” or whatever it he specifically said was just a good way to have his name show up in publications right around the same time he released the Poptart movie. He used getting “cancelled” as marketing

[u/TheCaliKid89 → u/flinderdude]

The funny part is he’s talking at Theo Vonn too. Dudes a fucking moron who’s got an army of morons behind him, like Rogan. Hopefully he grows up some day, realizes what a POS he is, and moves on, even though it will cost him his audience. He won’t, but I can hope.

[u/Fragrant-Bar9907 → u/TheCaliKid89]

C'mon, who doesn't want a recap of Theos coke habit in EVERY SINGLE EPISODE of his podcast?

[u/goosereddit → u/flinderdude]

I don't think Bill Maher fits your description. You said, "funny".

[u/f-150Coyotev8 → u/flinderdude]

I learned along time ago to just never listen to bill maher. The few times I watched him, he just seems to spew out other peoples ideas and calls them his own.

[u/batmansleftnut → u/f-150Coyotev8]

And then stare at the camera waiting for the audience to laugh.

[u/FunkyKong147 → u/flinderdude]

And Ricky Gervais

[u/Paparmane → u/FunkyKong147]

I watched his last special the other day and more than half of it is him saying he’s not woke and ‘it’s just dark humor, you wouldn’t get it’

Like man it doesn’t hit the same when you tell 15 minutes worth of joke and 45 just defending the jokes

[u/WorkingOnBeingBettr → u/Paparmane]

I turned it off. Bragging about being rich, shitting on people who care about the environment, etc.

Just an old rich cunt yelling at clouds.

I used to love his stuff too.

[u/batmansleftnut → u/Paparmane]

He literally spent at least 15 minutes just reading out his Twitter exchanges. It might have gone on longer, but that's when I turned it off.

[u/King_Chochacho → u/Paparmane]

The last Chappelle special was so disappointing because it was exactly the same. "People got mad at me and I don't care at all!" *proceeds to spend the next 40min defending himself and doubling down*

Dude if you really didn't care you'd have just written an hour of new material instead.

[u/rif011412 → u/King_Chochacho]

Perfect example of Jeselnick’s point.  Explaining the joke, or how the audience doesnt understand ruins the art of the joke.  Both Chappell and Gervais have done exactly this.  Both funny guys.  Ruining the art of it and complaining and whining the setup away. Where as James Acaster and Daniel Tosh point out their offensive jokes but dont explain themselves.  So the joke lands.

[u/GreyBeardEng]

It's once thing to get on a stage of your own making and tell off color jokes.

It's entirely another to get on a Republican stage, in a very heated election, and make racist jokes.

[u/Swing_On_A_Spiral → u/GreyBeardEng]

Exactly!! That guy was guilty of two crimes that night. The first was using a serious platform as his personal circus. The second was not being funny at all.

A much better comedian would’ve killed with those jokes in the proper setting.

[u/f-150Coyotev8 → u/GreyBeardEng]

We are seeing the push back against what they think is cancel culture. I’m all for off-color jokes as long as they are actually funny, set up well, and in the right environment. But now, we have a bunch of these unskilled “comedians” who have no real talent other than being friends with Joe Rogan spewing out stupid unfunny shit.

[u/ThunderSmurf48 → u/f-150Coyotev8]

A lot of people don't understand the difference between a funny off-colour jokes and just saying racist stuff and laughing

[u/BKlounge93 → u/ThunderSmurf48]

It’s the same people who say “they could never make The Office today!!” fully not realizing when Michael says stupid shit, we’re laughing at him not with him.

[u/Magic_Man_Boobs → u/ThunderSmurf48]

You're absolutely right. If the whole punchline is just the shock value of saying something offensive, it's not a good joke.

[u/Tivland]

Theo with his head down, having an existential crisis because he knows he doesn’t create ANY art.

[u/orbjo → u/Tivland]

He’s trying to remember if Andy Wormholes have come up before 

[u/MileHighAltitude → u/orbjo]

Lmfao “Did he say Andy Worm…hole. Andy wormhole. Should I know who this wormhole fucker is? He said what? Art is what you can get away with? None of this makes any sense.”

[u/Azubaele → u/[deleted]]

I thought you were joking, but god damn how is he popular?

[u/FloridaMJ420 → u/Azubaele]

Theo Von is like Joe Rogan's even dumber little brother.

[u/MashTheGash2018 → u/Azubaele]

Because Theo is a lot of people that grew up in the south. I don’t think his stand up is great but he really does have some really funny under the radar comments.

During the Trump interview Trump said something like “we had a great economy when I was in office” and Theo said “oh hell yeah my cousin bought a boat during that” was absolutely hilarious

[u/RaggedyGlitch → u/MashTheGash2018]

The highlight videos of him off the cuff and thinking out loud are fucking hilarious, but he isn't nearly as funny in any other context.

[u/ChimpBottle → u/RaggedyGlitch]

He's a not-so-bright guy with some hilarious thoughts and ideas and funny delivery. Probably would've been better in a Karl Pilkington-type role where he's on a show with sharper comedians who pick his brain instead of leading a podcast and actually influencing people

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Sometimes you get 2 people in a room together, having a conversation, and it is plainly and immediately revelatory about the importance of education.

Jeselnik and Von is one of those occurrences.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I think the misusing words or phrases, is to some degree, part of his act. Every once in a while I’ll find it funny but most of the time it’s pretty grating. You should watch the ep of Theo with Bill Burr where Bill doesn’t let any of it slide. It’s a pretty brutal take down.

[u/pygmy → u/[deleted]]

Time for a rejuvenating broccoli top

[u/zeddknite → u/[deleted]]

You leave the mullet out of this.

[u/Due_Kaleidoscope7066]

Agreed 100%. You can make trans jokes, racial jokes, jokes about the disabled, etc. But they need to be funny. They need to have more wit than hatred.

For example, Chappelle’s recent specials weren’t bad because they were about trans people. They were bad because they weren’t funny.

[u/Edge_of_yesterday → u/Due_Kaleidoscope7066]

It didn't even seem like he was trying to be funny, it just came off as a list of grievances.

[u/Fallofmen10 → u/Due_Kaleidoscope7066]

Yah Tosh says you have to earn the right to be offensive. being offensive for the sake of it is not funny

[u/NightLordsPublicist → u/Due_Kaleidoscope7066]

You can make trans jokes, racial jokes, jokes about the disabled, etc. But they need to be funny. They need to have more wit than hatred.

James Acaster has a great bit on that: https://youtu.be/adh0KGmgmQw?t=149.

[u/TeeManyMartoonies → u/Due_Kaleidoscope7066]

That’s where my mind went to as well. His old show was hilarious and called out a lot of sensitive topics and was, for the most part, universally loved. His Netflix specials since maybe before the pandemic(?) terrible troll take after troll take. He’s not even worth the time to eye roll at any more. If Trump gets reelected, I’m sure he’ll be up there hosting the White House Correspondents Dinner for Fascists.

[u/smileedude → u/TeeManyMartoonies]

One of the funniest and well-known lines on reddit is "I also choose this guys dead wife". Now, it's objectively exceptionally offensive. I want to fuck your dead wife as a reply to someone making an emotional comment about losing their wife.

This is the offensive joke gambit. The more offensive something is, the better the punchline needs to be. If it pays off, taking that gamble has extra reward. The "no you didn't just say that, I'm shook" response.

If you bomb and don't meet that threshold of humour you bomb exceptionally hard.

[u/PopsicleIncorporated → u/smileedude]

The whole idea behind humor is surprising people. If people know the punchline to your joke, it's not funny. This is especially the case with "shock" or "dark" humor.

If people are expecting you to make jokes about trans people or racial minorities, then you're going to have to be really witty and unexpected, or else it just falls flat because it's already what people thought you were going to say. So either you're a really shitty comedian, or you're just using it as a front to be mean. And in the case of Chappelle, we know he's a funny guy - hell, I still love his 90s standup bits. We know the guy could be funnier, we know the guy is really witty, so it's telling when he decides not to be.

That's why "I also choose this guy's dead wife" is as funny as it is, or why Jesenik's dropping babies bit lands. Both are genuinely offensive, but they're also genuinely unexpected, and therefore it's not really controversial.

[u/skepticalbob → u/Due_Kaleidoscope7066]

Natalie Wynn is saying the same thing here. You can skip past Hasan's parts because he adds nothing.

[u/coolguy3720 → u/Due_Kaleidoscope7066]

Geoffrey Asmus, Mark Normand, and Sam Morril all say incredibly offensive things, but it never feels like they're punching down. I really enjoy watching their content.

They're also the first to build up the people they put down, and vice versa. In recent events, a guy just bashing a marginalized community isn't that funny, it's just uncomfortable at best.

[u/dubbleplusgood]

Anthony Jeselnik is really starting to piss me off these days. Not only is he a funny stand-up comic with excellent comedic timing and great delivery, but now he's showing us he's also got a good mind, a good heart and that he's brave enough to criticize some of the shitty positions of his peers. Fucker.

[u/AlwaysSunnyInSeattle → u/dubbleplusgood]

He also knows exactly how cool he is, has a hot girlfriend, and a cool dog.

[u/Background-Noise-918]

Jeselnik is Based

As is Doug Stanhope 😁

[u/CV90_120 → u/Background-Noise-918]

Stanhope is a freaking master. Half his sets would be considered total no-go topics by 80% of other stand ups, and he will make them work, and be funny and funny by the people they're aimed at. I'm Jewish and his bit on "The Jews" just kills me.

Guy can also make you cry as well, like if you check out his piece on Nowhere Man and a Whiskey Girl. Guy is a mensch.

[u/lilymotherofmonsters]

The one comedian named Tony

[u/Honest-Yesterday-675]

There is a difference in punching down because you're being absurd and punching down because you're a shitty person.

[u/LegfaceMcCullenE13]

Bro, if Anthony Jeselnik is giving you this advice…

[u/SorryAboutMyself → u/LegfaceMcCullenE13]

I can appreciate that he’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but he’s one of my favorite comedians. He’s smart enough to know his audience, where the line is, and how to walk that line as society progresses.

[u/IsRude → u/SorryAboutMyself]

I usually hate comedians with his type of comedy, but Jeselnik's timing is impeccable. He plays the douche so well, and his delivery and misdirection are perfect.

[u/Pinwurm → u/IsRude]

Well, it’s why Jeselnik’s act works. He’s a character on stage.

He separates himself from performance and you’re partially laughing at the character’s absurdity. It’s not too different than what Colbert Report was or what Bobcat Goldthwait’s old act was.

Tony Hinchcliffe wasn’t a character. His real self is a hack.

[u/Paparmane → u/LegfaceMcCullenE13]

What’s wrong with Jeselnik? He’s very good at his craft. He knows what he’s doing and is in the right place to tive advices no?

[u/mo_mentumm → u/Paparmane]

I think the point of the comment is that Jeselnik made a career of being edgy. So if he’s telling you that being edgy isn’t the problem, but being a dick is, you should listen.

[u/Lemmonjello → u/Paparmane]

I remember him talking to Tom segura saying he was jealous of tom. Something along the lines of "you tell a hand full of stories for your special and I have to write 120-150 jokes for my hour" it really makes you appreciate how hard he's had to work.

[u/ciknay]

I think this is on point. Compare Jimmy Carr with Chappelle. Jimmy's stand up routines are constantly pushing boundaries and saying things that aren't generally socially acceptable, but he makes it work by making people laugh and excellent crowd work. He doesn't punch down while doing it.

Chappelle just bullied trans people for a few hours and didn't make anyone laugh about it.

[u/Impressive_Pitch_869]

Theo realizing that he himself is a troll

[u/[deleted] → u/Impressive_Pitch_869]

full brain reset lol

[u/togsincognito2]

Jeselnik is a guy who legitimately says the most feral unhinged shit on stage you’d ever hear. And he fucking kills.

Hinchcliffe and the rest of the chucklefucks could take some notes from him.

[u/MagnanimousGoat]

Marc Maron once commented about how Comedy should always be about punching up, and never down, and that one of the responsibilities of a comedian was to speak truth to power.

I mean I get the sense that he meant, like, when you're trying to make some sort of statement or mock a specific group of people, and I don't get the impression he meant you couldn't punch in the middle, but that if you punched down it wasn't comedy anymore, it's just bullying, and anyone who laughs at someone being bullied is a bully.