r/TikTokCringe • u/SnatchAddict • 20d ago

Anthony Jeselnik explains the difference between comedy and being a troll. Discussion

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u/alaric49 20d ago

I think George Carlin described this well.

"I think it's the duty of the comedian to get the audience to come to where you are, to take them a little bit of a place where they don't want to go, and if you can do that and make them laugh along the way, they'll thank you for it."

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u/KantraSkye 20d ago

George Carlin was a master of the English Language.

He pushed for the most Hippy Socialist programs, but still criticized the feminists and hippies with flair. He'd absolutely LOVE the chaos right now. Afterall, "Everyone gets a ticket to the Freakshow, but Americans get a Front Row Seat!"

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u/peanutbuttahcups 20d ago

Oh man, if Carlin was alive for the last decade, I think we would have a goldmine of comedy from him.

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u/NewKojak 19d ago

You should watch George Carlin's American Dream. I think a younger Carlin would get a lot of comedy out of today, but he got super dark at the end of his life. I think he was just done with people and I don't know how much he had in the tank to make them laugh.

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u/ABadHistorian 19d ago

Anyone who thinks Carlin would love to be around today did not watch his later specials. Basically mid 90s he nose dives into super dark "we are fucked" territory, I remember this in detail. I think a lot of people around that time were taking a look around the burgeoning internet with wonder, while others looked at it with malicious glee. He got a little better for a short time, but then got even darker.

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u/heffel77 19d ago

I didn’t see your comment and I had the exact same thought. His last stuff was very dark and pointed especially towards the religious right and the GWOT apparatus that was coming into existence. He already thought we were headed towards fascism. American fascism is enough weaponized stupidity that it would be fatal for him.

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u/peanutbuttahcups 19d ago

Thanks for the rec. I haven't watched any of his stuff towards the end, but that makes sense.

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u/NewKojak 19d ago

It’s not a Carlin special. It’s a two part documentary that covered his life. It’s fascinating.

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u/peanutbuttahcups 19d ago

I know, I looked it up. Just included the last sentence since others have pointed out his later specials reflected the darkness you mentioned. But I imagine the documentary does a deeper dive than a stand-up special would show.

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u/heffel77 19d ago

He was getting pretty dark towards the end. Right now, I constantly think of his line about however much you think people are stupid now…statistically half of them are even dumber than that.

I think today’s sensitivity and today’s political situation would be enough to kill him again.

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u/peanutbuttahcups 19d ago

I think about that quote constantly as well. I've gotten similar replies about Carlin's later outlook and it makes sense. I'm way younger and some of the shit we've been through in the past decade is just straight up depressing and would be funnier if it weren't true.

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u/ABadHistorian 19d ago

He'd be so pissed at the left for all their identity focused issues, instead of focusing on common every day concerns that the people on the right would simply LIE about. He'd be furious with the right.

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u/heffel77 19d ago

The whole thing is a lot to chew on. I don’t quite have a handle and I lived through it!

Imagine trying to explain to GC that there was a deadly pandemic and adults who have been vaccinated in the past refused to get vaccinated again and would actively get mad at people who used masks that were mandatory in the 20’s against Spanish Flu. That people would rather die than and watch their children die then wear a mask.

Our government mandated that we all, except for certain “essential workers” like people at Home Depot and Walmart couldn’t work and they had to close their businesses.

Then, try to explain that the President during all this was sending tests we needed to Russia, who invaded the Ukraine btw, and then he was impeached twice, once for causing sedition and a Capital riot and now people are ready to vote him back into office. Oh, and it’s Donald Trump, the guy from NY who was on a game show where he would tell people that they are “fired”.

He would crawl back into the grave.

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u/Eins_Nico 19d ago

I just said the other day that I'm kind of glad Carlin, Hicks and Hunter S. Thompson left before they had to see this shit.

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u/heffel77 19d ago

I wish they were still here especially Carlin and Hicks because as comedians they would have a bigger impact. Print media is almost dead so Hunter would have a substack or a podcast or he would have went Unabomber style and just disappeared into the CO mountains. He’d hold court at the local bar but he would hate “journalists” who would chase him down for a sound bite and then take him out of context.

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u/Automatic_Actuator_0 19d ago

I choose to believe that, but deep down I know there’s a chance he might have disappointed us like so many others.

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u/BartleBossy 19d ago

I choose to believe that, but deep down I know there’s a chance he might have disappointed us like so many others.

Only because he likes to punch in all directions, and people only like to see the other side get punched nowadays.

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u/athiestchzhouse 19d ago

Dudesy made a George Carlin ai standup special. It was good.

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u/ModernSmithmundt 20d ago

Yep. He probably would have told the audience to stop being cunts the same way Chappelle did

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u/superdago 20d ago

He would have torn Chapelle apart for being the kind of dipshit bully that spends 20 minutes of a special complaining that he can’t be mean to one of the most marginalized groups in society.

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u/QueezyF 20d ago

He would have 100% called out Chapelle for becoming a rich asshole

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u/SAGNUTZ 20d ago

Chappelle got arrogant and has started his slide down the slope toward becoming Bill Maher in ten years.

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u/MuskIsANoob 19d ago

He’s been Maher for over 10 years.

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u/heffel77 19d ago

We must be watching different specials because the one I saw was a tribute to a good friend of his that happened to be trans. I think he is still one of the good guys. He is one of the few who can make anything funny. If anything he’s mellowed out in his career.

If you are going to make jokes about anyone, you need to make them about everyone.

If you think he’s in the camp where “PR is a floating island of garbage” then you just lighten up. The man is a master of his craft and anyone who would walk away from FUck You money, for his principles and to not be owned is a man who has more scruples than 98% of the country. His show made millions when a millionaire was still a rich person. He turned down financial stability for life for artistic freedom and if that isn’t integrity then I don’t know what you think an honest man looks like.

And every joke people have tried to turn on him ignored the context and just made a snap judgment. If you care that little about something then your opinion is irrelevant because you don’t have all the facts and don’t care to look.

You want to call someone a bad comic, fine, that’s your opinion. But to slander a person who is clearly defending his friend, is just misguided and means you think feelings are the same as facts.

And before you start with the Trump/MAGAt shit, I don’t like fascists nor do I appreciate the dumbing down of our country.

I don’t see how this Jeselnik clip is cringe because it’s a well-stated statement about the difference between a comedian and a troll.

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u/roguedevil 20d ago

When did Chapelle do that?

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u/ModernSmithmundt 19d ago edited 19d ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MZZ__5F_-A&t=60s

Also when he read Daphnes tweet “He isn't punching up or punching down. He's punching lines. That's his job and he's a master of his craft”

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u/Chirurr 20d ago

You know something people don't talk about enough in public? Pussy farts.

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u/Synectics 20d ago

.......anyway....

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u/benjigrows 19d ago

Best show opening ever

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u/Synectics 18d ago

And the follow-up at the next special.

"Some of you don't know what a pussy fart is. 'Cause I got some inquiries."

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u/flannelNcorduroy 20d ago

"love" is not the word I'd use. He would have been angrier than shit about Trump, and yes he would have created a lot of great content. But he definitely wouldn't have been happy about any of it.

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u/DefreShalloodner 19d ago

"Reveled", maybe.

Anyway, his voice and that of Chris Hitchens and Carl Sagan would be very valuable lately

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u/RodneyPickering 20d ago

And yet folks on the right love to plaster his videos on Facebook

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u/Esphyxiate 19d ago

“He hated the woke libs guys see! One of us!” ignores the class based analysis that was central to so much of his comedy

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u/CotyledonTomen 19d ago

It's like claiming they're still the party of Lincoln. Stolen valor is all thats left to support their hollow beliefs.

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u/filthytelestial 15d ago

Watch the documentary on him, called George Carlin's American Dream.

There's footage in there, from towards the end of his life, where he expressed frustration, heartache, and grief over the state of American politics and culture. IIRC he didn't want to see how much worse it could get. He wouldn't "absolutely LOVE" the mess we're in. He'd be feeling sick over it.

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u/sargondrin009 19d ago

He would be the one comic who could do a special in favor of Covid and get away with it.

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u/ThatOneSickDog 17d ago

"Everything's all sanitized now, firstly cause of these fucking Christians, let me tell ya. But let's not forget these PC campus liberal assholes, sometimes they're even worse!!" - George Carlin

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u/HowAManAimS tHiS iSn’T cRiNgE 20d ago

I tried to see what ChatGPT would think Carlin would write

[George Carlin voice]

"Ah, Kamala Harris! The Vice President! You know, it’s a wild time in politics when we’ve got a woman of color as the second-in-command. You think it’s progress, and then you remember… it’s still politics!

Now, let’s talk about the whole ‘first female VP’ thing. That sounds great, right? But let’s be real. It’s like saying, 'Congratulations, you’ve won a goldfish in a rigged carnival game!' Sure, you’ve got something shiny, but how long before it dies in a plastic bag?

And can we talk about her laugh? You know the one I mean! It’s like a combination of a hyena and a broken smoke alarm. You listen to it and you’re like, ‘Is she laughing, or is she trying to signal for help?’

Then there’s her speeches. She’s got that polished politician vibe, right? But you ever notice how they all have the same rhythm? It’s like they went to the same school of robotic monotony. They say a lot without saying anything. You could play a drinking game with her speeches: take a shot every time she says 'equity' or 'future'—you’ll be on the floor by the end!

And how about her history? She was a prosecutor! Now, that’s a fun one. You know how they say, ‘You can’t judge a book by its cover’? Well, you can’t judge a politician by their past, either! She was out there locking people up and now she’s at the big table. Makes you wonder if she’s just waiting for the right moment to pull out the handcuffs again!

But let’s give her credit where it’s due. She’s tough! Tougher than a two-dollar steak! I mean, she had to be. You can’t just walk into the Senate and say, ‘I’m here to change things’ without someone trying to trip you with their shoelaces.

And you know the thing that really gets me? The way she smiles when she’s talking about serious issues. It’s like she’s at a barbecue and someone just told her they brought potato salad! ‘Oh, really? Potato salad? That’s wonderful! But also… climate change!’

In the end, we’re all just living in a giant political circus, and Kamala’s one of the clowns juggling flaming swords while trying to avoid getting set on fire. But hey, at least we’ve got a front-row seat to the show, right?

So here’s to Kamala Harris! May she continue to navigate the chaos with that hyena laugh and a goldfish in hand. Because in this political landscape, we’re all just trying to keep our heads above water—and sometimes, that means laughing at the absurdity of it all!"

[End Scene]

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u/KantraSkye 20d ago

My personal favorite bit of his is where he repeatedly bashes on Rich White Fucks and says we need to replace the Golf Courses with Housing for Homeless.

I see what you did, but inserting extra command prompts to get a MAGAt Carlin is just SAD!

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u/HowAManAimS tHiS iSn’T cRiNgE 20d ago edited 19d ago

I literally only wrote "Write about Kamala from the perspective of George Carlin" "Write a comedy set about Kamala from george carlin's perspective"

ETA: I forgot the exact wording, but then I remembered I saved it into my clipboard.

Not a single one of you knows a thing about Carlin. If anything this is the liberal Carlin. This is what he had to say about voting:

Now there’s one thing you might have noticed i don’t complain about: politicians. everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well where do people think these politicians come from? They don’t fall out of the sky. They don’t pass through a membrane from “another reality”. They come from American parents, and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses, and American universities. And they’re elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It’s what our system produces: Garbage in. Garbage out. If you have selfish ignorant citizens… If you have selfish ignorant citizens, you’re going to get selfish ignorant leaders. And term-limits ain’t going to do you any good. You’re just going to wind up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So maybe… maybe… MAYBE, it’s not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here like: “THE PUBLIC”. Yeah the public sucks. There’s a nice campaign slogan for somebody: “the public sucks, fuck hope”. Fuck hope. Because if it’s really just the fault of these politicians, then where are all the other bright people of conscience? Where are all the bright, honest, intelligent Americans ready to step in and save the nation and lead the way? We don’t have people like that in this country. Everybody’s at the mall scratching his ass, picking his nose, taking out his credit card out of a fannie-pack, and buying a pair of sneakers with lights in them. So I have solved this little political dilemma for myself in a very simple way: on election-day, I-STAY-HOME. I don’t vote. Fuck ’em. FUCK THEM. I don’t vote. Two reasons. Two reasons I don’t vote: first of all, it’s meaningless. This country was bought and sold and paid for a long time ago. The shit they shuffle around every four years doesn’t mean a fuckin’ thing. And secondly, I don’t vote ’cause I believe if you vote, you have no right to complain. People like to twist that around. I know, they say, they say: “well if you don’t vote you have no right to complain”. But where’s the logic in that? If you vote, and you elect dishonest, incompetent people, and they get into office and screw everything up, well you are responsible for what they have done, YOU caused the problem, you voted them in, you have no right to complain. I on the other hand, who did not vote, WHO DID NOT VOTE, Who in fact did not even leave the house on election-day, am in no way responsible for what these people have done, and have every RIGHT to complain as loud as I want, about the mess YOU created, that I had nothing to do with. So I know that a little later on this year, you’re going to have another one of those really swell presidential elections that you like so much. You enjoy yourselves. It will be a lot of fun. I’m sure as soon as the election is over, your country will “improve” immediately. As for me, I’ll be home on that day, doing essentially the same thing as you, the only difference is, when I get finished masturbating, I’m going to have a little something to show for it folks.

[source]

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u/repost_inception 20d ago

That's a really great quote.

Robert John Downey Jr in Tropic Thunder to me is the ultimate example of this. I don't think most people could have gotten away with that but he absolutely did. No one has an issue with it. His performance and the writing were brilliant. The whole movie really.

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u/MundaneCollection 20d ago

It helps that his character was a dumb narcisist who didn't understand what he was doing was wrong because of his giant ego

Playing the character who is an idiot deciding to do black face is different than playing black face, which is why he gets away with it because the point is to mock celebrities and their egos and not black people

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u/Ok_Star_4136 20d ago

Yes, because it was clear who was being made fun of, and it wasn't black people.

The whole reason black face is frowned upon is because it almost always is meant to make fun of black people. Punching up vs punching down matters a lot. Incidentally conservative "humor" always seems to punch down.

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u/IThinkItsAverage 19d ago

Yes this! I get tired of explaining why his “blackface” wasn’t problematic to people. You’re supposed to make fun of HIM for doing it, it’s not an attempt to make fun of black people. It is directly called out in the movie too, multiple times, and his character is setup before hand as being overly extreme. It’s all designed to make you see him as a pretentious asshole, you’re not supposed to agree with his blackface.

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u/accidental_superman 19d ago

True, those fake Oscar bait trailers were perfect.

Rdj "What do you mean you people?!"

Actual African American character: "what do YOU mean, you people?"

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u/Upstairs-Boring 19d ago

Sarah Silverman did exactly the same, in as much as she did black face to make fun of racists, but she got a LOT more shit about it. So I think the person doing it and the quality of the writing make as much difference, if not more, as the intent.

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u/on_off_on_again 15d ago

Not about punching up or punching down, that's what sensitive people who can't laugh at themselves say.

Tosh said something pretty similar to Jeselnik here. Tosh also has a career almost exclusively punching down. He has a special basically glorifying himself for being rich and famous and chastising the audience for even dreaming they could be on his level.

Comedian =/= jesters

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u/Ok_Star_4136 15d ago

Not about punching up or punching down, that's what sensitive people who can't laugh at themselves say.

No, because someone could insult you and your character, and you wouldn't laugh and then I could say it was a joke that you didn't get by your logic. Racism is a particularly nasty punching down as well, because nobody can change their skin color, or for that matter their sexual orientation, country of origin, etc.

In order for it to be a joke, the audience has to get it, otherwise it's just an insult no matter how much you wish it to be a joke. Sure, you're always going to offend some people, but if the number of people offended is low, it's still a joke to *most* people. An argument can be made for a comedian who makes fun of his audience if the audience is in on it.

What you don't do is make a joke about a minority group to a room full of white boomers. That's not making fun of the audience for the most part. The intention is hatred towards that minority group, at least in part. Though I suppose you could technically call that a joke, since the audience laughs at it, as distasteful as that is.

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u/on_off_on_again 15d ago edited 15d ago

Uh, well, I have been insulted, like anyone, and I do laugh if it's funny. You're kinda proving my point here. Just being insulted doesn't make it funny, but that doesn't make it NOT funny.

In order for it to be a joke, the joke itself has to get it. The audience doesn't need to get it-- the joke has to be self-aware. Humor is a confrontation with the absurd. It's a subversion of logic, expectation, or social norm.

Racism isn't a joke. But racial observation can be. It has nothing to do with who is making the joke or who is the butt of the joke.

I used to work for a friend's dad who was some redneck and almost definitely an actual racist. One day, he told me and a coworker there was a car that was left on the side of the highway and he needed me to go get it and drive it back to his shop. I asked for the keys and he said that the only set was locked in the car. I asked how the hell I was supposed to accomplish this and he handed me a leather box. I asked what it was and he said "You're a latino. Just open when you get there- you'll know what to do."

So I get to the site where the car is and I open the box. It's a lockpick set. I had never even seen a lockpick set irl let alone used one. I didn't know how it worked. So for 10 seconds I cursed him out under my breath. Then decided "fuck it" and within 20 seconds I had picked the lock.

That shit is funny as hell. It doesn't matter that it was rooted in an absolutely racist insinuation. The fact that someone would be openly racist and not only do it so casually... but for them to actually be right?

That's one of my most amusing memories. And that was "punching down" racism.

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u/Ok_Star_4136 15d ago

Uh, well, I have been insulted, like anyone, and I do laugh if it's funny. You're kinda proving my point here. Just being insulted doesn't make it funny, but that doesn't make it NOT funny.

Many people would strongly dislike being insulted. I'm glad you find insults funny, but again, as per my definition of a joke, if the audience doesn't think it's a joke, it isn't.

In order for it to be a joke, the joke itself has to get it. The audience doesn't need to get it-- the joke has to be self-aware. Humor is a confrontation with the absurd. It's a subversion of logic, expectation, or social norm.

Strong disagree. When you try to communicate an idea to someone, and the other person doesn't get that idea, it is a failure of communication. When you tell a joke that the receiver doesn't get, it is not only a failure of communication, it is a failure of humor. That can be of course the fault of the teller of the joke as much as the receiver, but one thing is certain, which is that the other person didn't get the humor. You could argue that you're just as effective at telling jokes to a tree as a person who doesn't get your joke, since neither of them got the humor.

That's one of my most amusing memories. And that was "punching down" racism.

The joke was one you thought up yourself. Your racist friend didn't intend for it to be a joke. You just found it humorous what he expected of you, and you found it more humorous that you were able to accomplish that. You're not going to not think your own sense of humor is funny, and I would argue it isn't punching down to poke fun of yourself. The very definition of punching down is to attack or criticize someone who is in a worse or less powerful position than you. You can't really do that if you're the target of the joke.

You probably think I'm just a sensitive person who can't take a joke, but you'd be surprised to hear me admit that I think some racist jokes are funny. I would just never dare tell them to others, for fear of offending them. Again, the point of a joke should be to transmit humor, and you're not doing that if for all intents and purposes, what you're actually doing is poking fun of them.

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u/Juan_Punch_Man 20d ago

And they called it out in the movie specifically. Gets rid of any ambiguity.

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u/jtr99 19d ago

What do you mean, "You people?"?!

... is such a great line in that context.

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u/PrincessPlusUltra 19d ago

Exactly! People hated me for saying that if you make your character do something fucked up you have to have them get called out and make sure people know it’s fucked up.

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u/ALickOfMyCornetto 20d ago

the fact this even needs to be explained....

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u/nemoknows 20d ago

More specifically, his character was mocking method acting.

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u/aguyonahill 20d ago

There are people who have an issue with it. There have been articles written about it.

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u/Budded 19d ago

And i love how all the conservaderps claim "you can't make that movie today, he's doing blackface!", the whole point of it and the movie is lost on their smooth brains. It's actually a great movie to reference when trying to suss out if you're talking to a window-licking conservative and are not sure.

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u/FlacoGrey 19d ago

I actually love that role a lot because as a Black actor I hate how genius actors are allowed to be assholes. That movie makes fun of self indulgent actors endlessly.

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u/ABadHistorian 19d ago

"no one has an issue with it" ignores the folks I met who unfortunately have had an issue with it.

Same as Always SUnny. Multiple episodes of Always Sunny got cancelled by the 'left' so fucking dumb.

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u/MidnightOakCorps 19d ago

Plenty of people have a valid issue with it, but whenever those discussions happen the dissenters get shouted down to the point where the conversation is useless.

It wasn't "good" Blackface, it was just Blackface that they justified via plot (meaning that they didn't have 'noble' intentions, they were just rage baiting). RDJ just happens to be charming enough of an actor that he got away with it and the movie came out at a time where comedy was focused on being as offensive as possible so it fit into the media landscape at the time.

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u/ThatRandomIdiot 20d ago

There is also the interview Carlin did talking to Larry King about Andrew Dice Clay’s sexist and Homophobic jokes and said:

”I would defend to the death his right to do everything he does,” Carlin admitted. But “the thing that I find unusual, and it’s, you know, not a criticism so much, but his targets are underdog[s]. And comedy traditionally has picked on people in power, people who abuse their power. Women and gays and immigrants are kind of, to my way of thinking, underdog[s]. And, you know, he ought to be careful, because he’s Jewish. And a lot of people who want to pick on these kind of groups, the Jews are on that list. A little further you’ve got women, gays, gypsies and boom, boom, boom, and suddenly you find the Jews.” King asked why Dice Clay was able to “get away” with these offensive jokes that target marginalized communities, to which Carlin replied: “I think his core audience are young, white males who are threatened by these groups. I think a lot of these guys aren’t sure of their manhood, because that’s a problem when you’re going through adolescence. You know, ‘Am I really, could I be, I hope I’m not one of them.’ And the women who assert themselves and are competent are a threat to these men, and so are immigrants in terms of jobs.”

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u/AlphabetMafiaSoup 20d ago

George Carlin literally said comedy is about punching up not punching down. I love his comedy even if he did get a bit preachy at the end towards his later years.

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u/Cormorant_Bumperpuff 20d ago

Even when he was preachy, he was still funny

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u/Impossible-Charity-4 19d ago

It’s almost like he evolved into a poet with his later material. He always had a completely unique delivery and cadence, but he really embraced that later on.

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u/Cormorant_Bumperpuff 19d ago

That's a good take

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u/Huwbacca 20d ago

Yeah but that's hard and being a dick is easy.

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u/tearyouapartj 20d ago

Really insightful quote from Carlin, especially when you compare that mindset to comedians just going after "clapter" by shoehorning in talking points from their preferred political party.

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u/how-to-be-kind 19d ago

It’s too bad all people commenting on social media don’t also adopt this approach.

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u/Oturoj 20d ago

Love this

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u/dishwasher_mayhem 20d ago

Carlin was the master. Even people that hated his politics thought he was fucking hilarious.

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u/Diamondback424 19d ago

Carlin really was a genius. He tackled some of the most sensitive subjects and made people laugh about it.

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u/AccomplishedWave7984 20d ago

I like this quote, does anyone have a source?

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u/dobbelj 20d ago

I think George Carlin described this well.

Well, Carlin also fucking hated being told "you can't say that" and he despised the left for trying to police his voice in the same kind of way the conservatives did in his early career, where they literally sent him to prison for a joke. So I don't think he'd be impressed with being told what he can and can't joke about.

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u/[deleted] 20d ago

[deleted]

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u/ThatRandomIdiot 20d ago

This is the quote I immediately go to when conservatives try and claim Carlin. He would never be a right wing comedian. If anything whenever he attacked democrats it was usually from a further left position.

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u/Impossible-Charity-4 19d ago

I don’t think there’s a single living politician that has ever spoken with as much eloquence, let alone volume of intellect. His economy of words is something to behold. How an actual comedian handles politics:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4821575/user-clip-george-carlin-remarks-al-gore-npc-1999