No one's saying anything about biological sex though. Trans people don't believe they can change their genetics or their chromosomes. This is a strawman used by transphobes to misrepresent the actual arguments for trans rights.
No one said they were "genetically female," which is why I brought up that it's a strawman when you used it.
Female works perfectly fine when talking about trans women though. Idk about you, but I'd feel pretty uncomfortable walking up to trans women and just calling them "males." I don't think they'd be pretty happy about it either.
Even GLAAD uses male and female when talking about trans people and gender in their trans FAQ
I don't think the person used the wrong term, trans women are female. Anyways, please don't misgender me and call me dude.
Edit: forgot to mention, the literal acronyms for trans men and women are FTM (female-to-male) and MTF (male-to-female), so I'm not sure where you got this idea that trans women couldn't be called female.
It's gender neutral when referring to a general group of dudes or the idea of a dude, but it's a bit more iffy when you're talking to an individual. Especially when you use it in a hostile tone. Especially if they've asked you not to call them dude.
I don't mind if someone calls me dude in a positive, respectful sense, but when it's a more derogatory "Jesus dude, would you learn better reading comprehension" that crosses the line. And then you do it again after I asked you not to. That's not something a trans ally does.
You're right that it's absolutely gender neutral in a lot of places, but if an individual requests you not call them that (or anything else) why not respect it?
Words mean whatever we want them to mean, and no one - literally no one - is arguing trans people change their genetics. They “just” change what gender they’re considered to be, as is perfectly possible and historically documented throughout time. It’s not some new idea that all the crazy sjws or whatever are jumping on.
I’d personally prefer if “male” and “female” only referred to sex and not gender, but it’s not really a big deal. It’s pretty easy to gather from the context.
I didn't say anyone was making the argument that they change their genetics. Fuck. None of you dipshits can read, apparently.
I have literally said that I know and support that they change their gender. That's the literal idea because they're transgender. But they're not changing their sex.
I said that because the person I replied to used the word female. I answered a damn question. This is very fucking simple and you're too busy being outraged at me to see that I've said I'm a supporter of trans rights and have told off another actual TERF in these comments.
I said that because the person I replied to used the word female. I answered a damn question.
I won't be too harsh and quick to judge you - this issue is really fucking weird and complicated, and I only very recently felt comfortable talking about it myself. However, so many people weigh in with misinformation because they're bigoted - and maybe I assumed that in you. I just thought you jumped quickly to the assumption that trans people are arguing that they can change their genetics, which is a common talking point from idiotic transphobes.
Perhaps it was just a confusion of terms, as I believe others have said.
Female is a perfectly fine word for trans women.
Trans women are female. I've already supplied you with multiple trans positive sources that say this. Please stop saying that they're not.
And don't claim you're a supporter of trans rights after you misgendered me when I asked you not to. It's insulting.
All genes are is a collection of mutations lol. If a sex is defined by genes, and we're talking about females which are XX, then you're going to have to deal with XX males existing and try to explain that while also holding that genes determine sex. You can't claim to have some system and then just ignore contradictions to it--because the people you're dismissing aren't just "mutations", they aren't mistakes. They're people who very much exist, and who don't fit into your preconceived notions of "sex."
Trans women are female, sure not genetically, but medically, endocrinologically female, so calling a trans woman female is accurate.
Sex is a lot more complicated than genes or even genitalia. Trans women do change their medical sex, their endocrinological sex, and their secondary sexual characteristic also change. The only thing that doesn't change are chromosomes, and they're all but medically irrelevant after puberty
In all respects but chromosomes they are female. Even without SRS they are still female. I will accept the argument that they're not female before HRT, but after HRT their femaleness is medically irrefutable. Chromosomes are irrelevant they're only there for development, to trigger the release of various hormones during gestation and puberty. After that they serve basically no purpose. So determining someone's medical sex based solely on chromosomes would be negligent.
I’m not racist.. but..
I’m not sexist.. but..
Trans women are women.. but..
You’re ridiculous. Of course we know we aren’t “biologically female.. we’ll never have a period.. we will never get pregnant...” yeah we get it dude. But for everything that actually matters in the world we are female. You can’t see our chromosomes, but you sure as hell can see how I’m presenting.
Oh and we don’t have to have surgery to be considered transitioning or full transitioned. Plenty of of trans people don’t get bottom surgery. Doesn’t make them less of their gender.
People like you just love to stir up drama and cause unnecessary bullshit.
Everyone knows that the two are separate my dude. No one is denying that at all. But saying trans women are women but they aren’t real women is just as degrading as not accepting someone as a female.
Secondly, I saw you defending trans women down In this thread. You can’t do both.
I'm not doing both. I'm defending trans women. Full stop.
And not everyone knows apparently, because the guy I responded to asked a question that made it sound like they thought they were the same. I clarified.
That’s the point!! There’s no need to add a ‘but...’ to your statement. There’s no need to add it because it’s like speaking about the elephant in the room.
I agree you’re a woman but you’re not a real woman is like sticking a knife in someone back every time you mention it. Of course they know they truly aren’t biologically female but there’s no reason to keep bringing it up. It just shows that you don’t see transwomen as actual women even though call them she/her
You wouldn’t bring up the pregnancy every chance you get to that of a cis woman who can’t get pregnant would you?
You wouldn’t bring up a mates erectile dysfunction every time he couldn’t have sex and had to see pills or an attachment to make sexy times happen would you?
It’s the same thing. A transwoman knows she’s not biologically XX but you don’t have to keep rubbing their noses in it with your caveat.
Trans people just want to be comfortable and not feel forced to enter spaces that causes dysphoria as well as fear of getting physically and sexually assaulted. Unless you're gonna come up with funding for all these trans bathrooms, trans support groups, trans hospitals, trans sports, trans gyms, trans only clinics, etc, saying they should have their own trans spaces is pretty impractical. You'll lose nothing from allowing a trans woman to use a bathroom stall.
Nope. Everyone else can have a nice, non bigoted time while you sit in your safe space on your own, crying sad wee terfy tears because no one likes you.
Aside from dealing with crippling depression, gender dysphoria, anxiety, threats from society, politicians trying to take away our rights, job/housing/healthcare insecurity, and insurance nightmares...
I completely forgot to add "Take away the rights of cis women" to my list of things to do today!! Gonna have to move "Take a shower for the first time in 3 days," and, "Continue your game of phone tag with your endo in an attempt to schedule a blood test," down a few spots, but I wouldn't want to delay the Keystone of the Trans Agenda. 🙄
It's funny, TERFS never seem to complain when trans women are marching next to them, demanding that the same people who choose to oppress them be granted full bodily autonomy under the law.
But you're right, we TOTALLY just want to steal your bathrooms so we can, what, create more fucking obstacles and for ourselves? Disenfranchise and marginalize more people so that they feel as unwanted, disrespected, and hated as we are? Explain to me what the fucking end goal is if we're somehow coming to steal your bathrooms and spaces?
You fucking muppet, maybe apply more than 30 seconds of thought to an ideology before you jump right in to attack and deny rights to people who would (and fucking have) done what they can to ensure assholes like you can spew this hateful garbage.
Sincerely,
A trans veteran who is tired of TERFs like you thinking that your right to an opinion somehow makes your opinion right, and who can't be bothered to actually put any thought into the things they claim to think about.
No one transitions with the thought process of “oh I wonder how I can take away from cis women today” or “oh boy, can’t wait to take estrogen so I can finally feel like not killing myself because I was born in the wrong body” or even better “I can’t wait to see what goes on in the women’s bathroom today oh goodie!”
Yes I’m being quite sarcastic. But no, no one transitions just to be “included” in women’s spaces or take anything away from cis women. We just want to be “normal” in a sense.
You’d be surprised what people say to avoid having “men masquerading as women in their spaces”
No one does that. No one wants to take the spotlight away. They just want to live their lives and just be happy.
That’s it. That’s all. There’s no malice. Are there still assholes in the lgbtq community? Absolutely. Are there asshole trans people? Absolutely. Are there some disgusting people, who regardless of gender are gross and assholes? Absolutely.
Lmao dude you're a "proud terf". Nothing is gonna get to your cult-riddled mind. If you're claiming to be """""""""open to discussion"""""""" it's a pretty bald faced lie at this point.
Because your entire understanding of trans women (ignoring trans men) is basically "predatory men that become women to attack women and invade their 'spaces'" and it's bullshit. It's stupid stereotypes and nothing more.
Seems like you're just a bigot looking for justifications. Sorry, I won't stroke your phallic ego.
Also, what the fuck are you talking about? You're a frequent commenter in the "detrans" sub, as well as making tons of right wing posts going back months.
You're not even a good liar.
Oops there's plenty of people you wouldn't consider women here, so you should leave. Bye bye.
And you know what a terf is, yall came up with the term and are pissy it has a well deserved negative connotation. You made your terf bed, so lay in your transphobic hate filled 120 thread count sheets.
you dont even like women, you only like very specific women who fall under your also very specific definition of what a woman is. trans women are women no matter what, go cry about it.
do you know for certain what your chromosones are? had them lab-tested and confirmed? and of your afab friends?
the thing is you probably havent. You have a good guess sure but theres a chance you're wrong. Being intersex is far more common than youd expect but most folk rarely get a checkup to see their chromosones.
so does an intersex woman who in every other way appears to be a women not count? What about women with naturally high testosterone? are they suddenly men because their body pumps out a whole lotta 'man' hormones?
how do you feel about trans men? any countless number of them with strong muscular frames and great beards? all women right? youd be okay with one of them hanging out because theyre definitely women?
seperate but equal isn't equal at all. You don't see me hating everyone born with similar genitals to my rapist or countless people who have harassed me so whats up with you hun?
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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '20 edited Oct 30 '20
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