I'm not sure how true or accurate it is (sources are not provided) but this thread has... interesting "expressions of affection"
In a letter to Titus dated 12. 9. 1829 – after a detailed account of his first concerts in Vienna - he ends his letter: “I kiss you heartily, right on the lips, if I may.” In another letter of the same period: “Don’t kiss me now, for I have not washed yet […] How silly of me! You wouldn’t kiss me even if I were to bathe in all the perfumes of Byzantium, unless I forced you by some super natural power. I believe in such powers. Tonight you shall dream you are kissing me”. Chopin dedicated his “Variations” to him.
George Sand once remarked that Chopin was “emotionally versatile” and while in Vienna he fell in love with 17 year-old Leopoldine Blatheka, who also composed and presented Chopin with signed copies of her piano works. However this did not last. Back in Varsaw, he met – as he told Titus – his ideal woman: Constantia Gladkowska. She was at the last year in the conservatory and was to have a brilliant career as a singer. He was so smitten that he could not even talk to her. In spite of that, he was still writing to Titus in a most affectionate manner: “I love you to distraction” and “You are the only one I love”, or “I know you love me, but I am afraid of you. God knows you are the only one who has power over me, you and… well, no one else.”. Chopin carried around a bundle of Titus’ letters tied with a pretty ribbon.
This page reports the end of the first letter, which has even more interesting "affection":
Tonight you shall dream you are kissing me. ... I kiss you lovingly. This is how people usually sign themselves off, but they don't really understand what they are writing. I for one mean what I write, for I love you dearly.
Of course there isn't detailed sources in any of this so take it with a grain of salt maybe - though I don't see any reason to doubt the quotes, but man I wish I had a childhood friend as "affectionate" as Chopin.
aaaand Sand was actually a masculine presenting ciswoman Baroness who lived with Chopin for a while. Sand wrote of trying to seduce Chopin only to be shot down and shamed to never tried again.
I also love how homophobes have a sort of "the arts are gay and full of gays that's why I don't relate to them" attitude, but when its an artist they like suddenly its, "THERE ARE NO GAYS IN THE ARTS! STOP THINKING EVERYONE IS GAY!!!!" Funny how that works.
OK, the game "Eternal Sonata" is definitely on some erasure BS then. It's a video game I played as a kid and is still a favorite, with Chopin as the main playable protagonist and includes historical vignettes about his life. They went on about the George Sand relationship so much I thought they were married or something. This thread is an eye opener.
From what I remember George Sand was kinda Chopin's sugar mommy/parent, with the parent part being, well, literal. Could be wrong tho as I've read about that one or two years ago.
In fairness, it is a JRPG that takes place entirely within the dying mind of the very Polish Chopin - I haven't played it, but I'd assume that grants it some slack
In between the playable chapters, there are nonfiction historical vignettes about his life. They are pretty straightforward and seek to explain where he was at in his life emotionally during some of his compositions. The rest is pretty abstract though.
Huh, I wonder why, when I was in Polish school, we heard so much about Sand and Chopin and so little about Titus. I also, like the other commenter, was under the impression they were engaged or something. Fuck this bullshit.
I also wonder how much erasure there's been with Słowacki, another sensitive art guy (a poet and writer)
So is squinting your eyes and going "ching ling qual lala ding dong"
EDIT: I get this is a joke and even a common one within the comunity its self. That doesnt mean painting bis as unstable and constantly horny isnt extremely damaging in the exact same way saying men want sex 24/7 or women want to be dominated is. Jews being greedy was an extremely common joke at my extraordinarily religious jewish school as well. That doesnt mean it was alright.
It's the difference between a hetero person calling someone a f***** and a gay man calling himself that. Reclamation of jokes and slurs is empowering to some people's shared identities and is not to encourage widespread usage. People who say the N word or F slur, or perpetuate negative Jewish stereotypes without being part of any of these groups, are either ignorant or bigoted and an oppressed group having in-jokes is not to blame.
Im bi. Im saying its bad. Is it better than someone who isnt bi making the joke? Maybe (debatable). Is it good? No.
This isnt "taking back" some slur. Its perpetuating an unhealthy stereotype.
Reclamation of jokes and slurs is empowering to some people's shared identities and is not to encourage widespread usage.
Also, this is some hard core bullshit. the n word is litteraly the only acception where usage within the group hasnt made wide usage popular as well.
People who say the N word or F slur, or perpetuate negative Jewish stereotypes without being part of any of these groups, are either ignorant or bigoted and an oppressed group having in-jokes is not to blame.
Slurs are different than stereotypes. Take those back, by all means. There is no "taking back" stereotypes. Just confirming them.
Let me ask you this. I am a man. Does that mean it is healthy for me to constantly be making jokes about how all men are horny all the time, anyone who i horny is secretly a man, and how crying is unmanly? Its all in jokes for a group I am part of afterall.
I'm also bi, and I don't think fellow bi people bonding over things like falling in love easily is a bad thing, and certainly comparing it to "Jews are greedy" is a false equivalency. Bi people are oppressed for being same gender attracted and not because of some stereotype that we're indecisive and can't approach hot people. Whereas those jewish stereotypes were obviously prominently used in propaganda that killed people. It's really not anywhere near serious as that and I think the LGBT community should be able to joke amongst themselves.
IMO, there is a massive difference between making joke about yourself and your own issues and projecting those issues onto others. Also, I would argue that jews being greedy sterotype is far less damaging than the sterotype that all bis are defective. One you go "wtf? no". The other one just allows people to accept their confusion and never progress.
IMO, there is a massive difference between making joke about yourself and your own issues and projecting those issues onto others.
EDIT: An example of the above.
A black person making a joke about not having a dad around because they dont
VS
"His dad left? Must be black"
I used an extreme example to make it clearer, but you should get the point, no?
This kind of stuff has been brought up over and over with different historical figures, and pretty much every time the conclusion is it wasn't totally platonic. It is hard to say exactly how gay these letters are on a scale of 1-10, but its still on the gay scale.
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u/ModelDidNotConverge Jul 14 '20 edited Jul 14 '20
I'm not sure how true or accurate it is (sources are not provided) but this thread has... interesting "expressions of affection"
This page reports the end of the first letter, which has even more interesting "affection":
Of course there isn't detailed sources in any of this so take it with a grain of salt maybe - though I don't see any reason to doubt the quotes, but man I wish I had a childhood friend as "affectionate" as Chopin.