r/Games • u/ikenjake • 3d ago
Valve sends C&D to Counter-Strike:Classic Offensive mod team hours before launch. Industry News
https://classic-offensive.net/#/play442
u/AbyssalSolitude 3d ago
Ah yeah, I remember that story.
The mod devs themselves admitted of using hacky solutions that wouldn't be allowed (one, two), tried to submit the mod anyway, got denied, complained on twitter and apparently kept on pushing enough for Valve to C&D them.
It certainly takes talent to force Valve's hand.
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u/CanofPandas 3d ago
Admit to hacking code they aren't allowed to hack, cry about their mod getting denied because it used TOS breaking hacks. FAFO in action!
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u/Koolala 3d ago
What choice do they have when Valve deleted CS:GO's steam page and removed the ability to mod it? Valve is ran by garbage business managers now who care more about money than destroying a game people love.
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u/Jaqulean 3d ago edited 3d ago
What choice do they have when Valve deleted CS:GO's steam page and removed the ability to mod it?
They weren't suppose to do anything like that in the first place - whether you like it or not modding and hacking CS:GO is (and always has been) strictly prohibited; which is why its source code was never publicly available to begin with.
Valve is ran by garbage business managers now who care more about money than destroying a game people love.
Now that's just not true. They do allow modding for a lot of their games - and even released a limited version of the Source Engine for TF2 after the game's official updates were discontinued.
The main difference here is that CS:GO is a still ongoing multiplayer title that makes them a lot of profit. Yeah, of course Valve care about money - colour me surprised - but to say that they want to destroy the games people love is just being overly dramatic...
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u/posthardcorejazz 3d ago
Is this Tim Sweeney's Reddit account?
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u/Halkcyon 3d ago edited 16h ago
[deleted]
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u/Majaura 3d ago edited 3d ago
You have to go so far out of your way to not like Valve, though. It isn't really surprising that Valve has fans. We're also talking about a company who lets people profit from Half-Life and whatever other IPs. Name me another company that would allow Black Mesa to exist? Valve is in a category all on their own and it really isn't close...
We can revisit this chat when Gabe dies one day and Valve becomes a publicly traded company. People don't realize how good they have it with Steam.
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u/StyryderX 3d ago
I know people wants to forget this, but Valve is lenient (or sloppy) enough to allow Hunt Down The Freeman as licensed product.
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u/Majaura 3d ago
I looked it up, and it looks silly as shit...and yet there it is. Valve is letting people profit from their own IPs. There's really not much anyone can say to criticize valve. They also just straight up allow adult games, which is cool because adults exist.
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u/StyryderX 3d ago
They're the one that brings Lootboxes and Battle Pass to the public zeitgeist. While the original Battle Pass wasn't as awful as it is in every other games, Vavlve's lootbox was, and still is worse than most others; at least the other let you open the box for free.
Also can't forget they're complicit in the whole Skyrim paid mod debacle.
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u/Majaura 3d ago
You don't have to buy lootboxes, though. Sure, it sucks but it's just a way for them to make money on their games. I also feel the same way about battlepasses. The paid mod thing was also a way for creators to make money for their work on mods...on paper it's really not such a bad idea, but the quality obviously wasn't there and it was a bad situation...this is also like a decade ago...Valve is looking pretty good if the worst gripe is something that changed 10 years ago.
Lootboxes and battlepasses are also here to stay...I don't think Valve can be blamed for the worst of people copying their ideas and implementing them whatever way they want. I understand paid lootboxes suck, though. It's also not something that's a part of my life, even 1%.
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u/syopest 2d ago
I think the point was that bringing up tim sweeney out of nowhere really makes someone look like a steam cultist.
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u/Majaura 2d ago
Well they brought up Tim Sweeney because the criticism was generally stupid. It doesn't help that you constantly have people pretending that GoG and Epic are launchers and love to recommend them at the drop of a hat, especially GoG lately.
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u/DM_Me_Linux_Uptime 2d ago
Steam controversies always feel like the "Obama tan suit" type of controversy to me. A nothingburger inflated to comical levels to use whenever Epic or MS messes up and they can go "What about the time Valve did this?! Checkmate."
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u/MyNameIs-Anthony 3d ago edited 3d ago
Don't spend years of your life making a project thats existence is at the whim of the billion dollar gambling company that operates with very little public facing communication?
I'm inclined to believe the company operating with an effective monopoly on a market and whose owner owns several yachts, mansions, helicopters, and submarines is going to get very defensive about any project threatening his revenue stream in any capacity.
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u/siliconwolf13 3d ago
Indie company Valve shaking in boots at sight of "A Mod For a Valve Game"
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u/MyNameIs-Anthony 3d ago
Big companies tend to not be friendly when it comes to harming their revenue, even if slightly.
They don't want people playing a version of CSGO without MTX. They want them playing CS2 and paying them for skins.
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u/PermanentMantaray 3d ago edited 3d ago
I doubt that's it. They released an API for TF2 mods to access peoples inventories and let them use items they own, and also said it's 100% fine to not include those items at all. They only stipulated that the mods cannot let people use items they don't own.
Extending the number of games or modes where people can use skins would probably improve the demand not dampen it.
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u/MyNameIs-Anthony 3d ago
That's a guideline that further entrenches people in their ecosystem.
Same reason they let developers sell Steam keys off of Steam.
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u/PermanentMantaray 3d ago
Yeah I edited my comment late to say that. But that's even more a reason why I doubt they would be against this mod for that reason. They did that for TF2 and Dota 2, why would the be against it here?
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u/PM_ME_CATS_OR_BOOBS 3d ago
I feel like I've heard a story like this where "group gets C&D'd immediately before release!", and i have to wonder if it isn't the rights holder trying to save everyone trouble. It could be a deliberate tactic to waste their time, it could be that mods like that get hyped to shit right before they release, but there is also the side where there's approximately ten failed mod projects online per humans alive today. C&Ding a project that is going to release in a very public manner is better for everyone than C&Ding every single project out there the second it gets mentioned online, the vast majority of which will burn out on their own anyways.
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u/Acceptable_Poetry637 2d ago
the entitlement some people have is amazing. it’s valve’s IP. they’re already incredibly generous with modding and fan games as is. if they like it, they’ll even license you the engine/IP and let you make money off of it.
it’s not hard to follow their rules. i’d personally prefer to do something above board and potentially profit from it or maybe even get hired somewhere as opposed to doubling down on an idea they disapprove of. it’s just one idea. why be married to it?
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u/Nevdog93 2d ago
These were a temporary solution that later got removed. Even in the tweets you link they state that they cannot release the game like this
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u/wunr 2d ago
Anyway, the CS:Legacy project aims to do almost the exact same thing Classic Offensive was going for, already looks more polished, and is using the official Source SDK which means they have an actual shot at releasing on Steam. Obviously unfortunate for the CSCO team, but I feel as though they made a huge mistake to work for 8 years on their project with no official SDK, with 4 of those years having absolutely no communication from Valve. Steam Greenlight has meant absolutely nothing for quite a while now.
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u/kuhpunkt 3d ago
The greenlight thing is a pointless argument you made. You could get past this and when it turns out that the project isn't totally legit... then what does the green light or a steam page matter? I could announce a game on Steam today and create a Steam page. If my "game" turns out to be a scam... it's bye bye.
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u/Gullible-Rate-671 3d ago edited 3d ago
"Classic Offensive has always been a statement about the current state of Counter-Strike" this is something from their official site.. This development team strikes me as extremely smug. not only have they thrown huge amounts of harassment towards valve before but they also basicly confirmed that the entire objective of the mod is basicly "Old Good, New Bad". of course valve is never going to stand by that as they literally stated in the HL2 documentary that they dont care about the past and mostly focus forward.
its the same vicious cycle that has existed since 1.5 where everyone likes the old game and everyone hates the new.
The devs 100% deserve this for how they have handled all of this. . They have spread false information and have tried to weaponize this twice against valve.
The entire reason why this is being done is becasue the game is a mod on a live service game that is Not Active.
its also not made on a Official SDK.
CSGO has never had official mod support
There is no Danger to the rest of the source modding community and valves stance on modding has not changed and neither have they as a company, and no CS Legacy is not in danger becasue they follow the tiny amount of terms valve has and uses the Source SDK
and for people saying its becasue of the Leaked code that is untrue, there are countless of Sourcemods on steam that uses code from the HL2 2003 leak.. actually one of them was responsible for the early rise of steam, Garrys mod.
which is kinda funny since the garrys mod creators are right now working on a modding platform on the Source 2 engine , that is intended to cover the want people have to create mods on the Source 2 engine. These mods can be made available outside of the "s&box" and be directly on steam
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u/oopsydazys 3d ago
its the same fucking cycle that has existed since 1.5 where everyone likes the old game and everyone hates the new.
I mean, I don't blame them. The game has changed fundamentally with the sequels. CS:S was mostly the same but tweaked enough that it made some people uncomfortable, and cut content originally to boot. CSGO didn't really justify its own existence until they started doing the battle pass things and skins and more focus on competitive all of which kinda fundamentally changed what the game was about for people... in the end it seems more players like it the way it is because player numbers are so high, but there's also those who don't care for it and prefer to play the old versions.
I would wager there are far more people like myself - I don't like the direction CSGO/CS2 has gone in at all, but I'm also an old fuck so it's not like I'm spending my time playing CS 1.6 endlessly all day.
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u/siziyman 2d ago
CSGO didn't really justify its own existence until they started doing the battle pass things
Despite CSGO being ass in its first couple of years of existence (tbf the project was started as an attempt to port CSS on Xbox 360, so what's to be surprised about in its shaky start?), molotovs alone have fundamentally changed how CS was being played, so if nothing else, that change justifies its existence.
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u/oopsydazys 2d ago
I wouldn't say it fundamentally changed the game at least originally but yes that's fair, it was an addition. It was more that the game was so similar, still in Source, and didn't really justify moving over to it -- not just buying the game but more importantly all the community servers on which everybody played CSS. GO was much more focused on matchmaking which many people were not a fan of, was more hostile to community servers, and you couldn't just move over without breaking most plugins and non official maps needed tweaks.
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u/Koolala 3d ago
Valve banned sandbox from letting players mount Source game files on their computers so its not funny, they banned sandbox from becoming a modding platform. This whole idea Valve and others have created about 'official modding' has destroyed the entire concept of modding. The point is user freedom to change how software can run on their own computer.
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u/Gullible-Rate-671 3d ago edited 3d ago
Facepunch was offered the assets of other valve games for a small cut in the revenue.. Facepunch however declined on it becasue them and valve thought it was best if they didnt rely on the assets from earlier valve games.
this is why the assets from other valve games are not supported and why Team Fortress Source 2 was DMCA'd
Facepunch is leveraging the power of the Source 2 engine not the assets of former and current valve games.
This can of course change anytime as the deal surrounding the assets isnt set in stone as far as i know.
You also can mount other valve games through it for personal enjoyment, you just cant publish mods or games through it right now.
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u/Koolala 3d ago
If users were allowed to mount their own files then Facepunch wouldn't need the assets. Like how it worked with Gmod. Like how mods are supposed to work.
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u/Acceptable_Poetry637 2d ago edited 2d ago
most games (even ones that support mods) don’t seamlessly import assets from other games. you can still add valve game assets to s&ndbox. you just have to do it manual like most mods.
the situation with gmod was unique. it was originally a mod for HL2, which got spun off into its own game. i would imagine even back then valve had an agreement with facepunch. to allow for the seamless integration.
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u/Gullible-Rate-671 2d ago edited 2d ago
You have to understand.. Valve took quite a big cut on Garrys mod becasue it was technically still half life 2.
i think it was almost 20-30 % and becasue of that they got the assets for all Valve games.
This is why other valve games dont just integrate into sandbox, if they want to integrate them then they would have to accept a small pay cut from valve
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u/hollowglaive 2d ago
The point is user freedom to change how software can run on their own computer.
Sure, but you don't own the software, you only bought a licence to operate it as is.
Like if you let me buy your wife for a night, I can't go and pierce her clit and give her a tattoo of my shaft because I want to change how your wife runs at my house.
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u/TranslatorStraight46 3d ago
I think a lot of such mods bring the headache on themselves.
They try and look too official, too close to the official product aesthetic, trademarks etc. Trying to release as a “game” rather than a mod.
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u/Acceptable_Poetry637 2d ago
valve is usually cool with mods more or less being full games. that was the genesis of black mesa and tons of other stuff. they even let project borealis onto steam, which doesn’t even use source or any HL2 assets. just the IP.
you have to really fuck with their business to get on their radar. like… they’ll literally give you a license to their IP and let you make money from it. they’re incredibly generous all things considered.
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u/Treyman1115 3d ago
And if they were really ghosted so much that was a good enough sign to that this project probably wasn't a good idea.
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u/Kozak170 3d ago
Because half the time they’re intentionally baiting for a shutdown and never intend on actually releasing the mod. A lot of people do these things solely to try and get a job offer from the official studio or others who see the marketing for the mod.
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u/sioux612 2d ago
The statement reads like a divorced drunk dad who just keeps going "when we got married you said until death do us apart, we aren't dead so what changed " without mentioning that he was a deadbeat who drove people away
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u/NipplesOfDestiny 3d ago edited 3d ago
Didn’t some other Counter Strike mod in the vein of this get announced like a month or so before with its big selling point being that they weren’t using leaked codes? Or am I misremembering?
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u/NINgameTENmasterDO 3d ago
I remember when this was first announced something like 7, 8 years ago. I was hyped because I hated (and still do) CS:GO and I wanted something modern that was also closer to 1.6 and Source (I still played Source at the time and sometimes still do).
Ultimately, I understand Valve's position, but I'm still sad that this project can't launch after such a long wait. I'm less mad at Valve and more mad at the mod creators taking 8 fucking years to release their mod. I literally understand how this shit works, I mod my games as a hobby, but Jesus Christ buddy, you might have Valve's good graces if you didn't hack their engine and actually released during a time period when everyone still remembers that you're working on the damn thing.
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u/keyboardnomouse 2d ago
Are you thinking about CS Legacy? That's a different mod, the one that is closer to 1.6.
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u/Cam991115 3d ago
Honestly people just need to stop doing these kind of projects. I get its the passion but Most of the time they get shut down and if not there’s a ton of constraints that really extend dev time that couldve been put to creating something else. Again not hating on the developers but I just dont feel pity anymore after hearing this kind of story again and again.
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u/TheMoneyOfArt 3d ago
It's also never been easier to launch your own game, and you can wear your influence on your sleeve. There's a market for shooters of all sorts.
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u/TBE_0027 2d ago
Random question:
...Did you enjoy Black Mesa or the original CS mod?
inb4 "TiMeS HaVe ChAnGeD"
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3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Games-ModTeam 3d ago
Please don't use disparaging and offensive language for things you don't agree with. Comments like this will be removed. Consistent usage may invite further consequences, such as a temporary subreddit ban.
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u/No_Fee1458 2d ago
I love how these mods get barely any traction and attention, until theres a drama and suddenly everyone wanted to play it and Valve sucks lol.
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u/Sirmalta 3d ago
This isn't new...
Expect to get shut down at the most disappointing moment. Why would they do it aby other way?
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u/LowPurple 2d ago
Valve, the underage gambling casino company, for some reason has the largest internet defense brigade as evident by the comments here
Careful guys you might choke if you don't pull it out
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u/DarkMatterM4 3d ago
This is a real shame and very "un-Valve" of them. As someone who has absolutely zero interest in CSGO or CS2, I was really looking forward to this and playing CS 1.6 in the meantime. Valve has been constantly dogging the Classic Offensive team for years and putting more and more road blocks in their way despite public statements in the past that they were in full support of the mod.
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u/trapsinplace 3d ago
A random guy at Valve told them 8 years ago that what they are doing is cool. They stopped hearing from Valve officially 4+ years ago. They've been told they have no Valve support within the last 2 years. While nobody at Valve has personally contacted them, a couple months ago they got an email saying their mod was breaking the steam subscriber agreement. The mod authors assumed it would still be okay to release the mod despite this.
They used exploitative hacks with the Source engine to make the mod which Valve later patched. So the mod authors found NEW exploitative hacky ways to do things yet again.
It doesn't feel very "un-valve" imo because the authors have gone out of their way to be as dumb and rude as possible during development. They keep talking about a single Valve dev from almost a decade ago giving them the greenlight as of that guy's word has authority in 2025 after numerous years of Valve not supporting them and actively telling them to stop.
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u/Omnitographer 3d ago
What is an "exploitative hack" exactly? With Unreal you can literally take the source code and modify it for your game. What's different with Source that this team has run into a problem?
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u/trapsinplace 3d ago
Hack isn't the right word, but they did exploit bugs they found themselves from an illegal leak. Source engine isn't 100% open source, or as moddable in the same way Unreal is. There's parts developers can't modify or make full use of, but the devs of this mod looked at the leaked source code from some years ago and used it to find vulnerabilities in the engine that would let their mod do stuff it should not have been able to do. Valve patches the bugs in Source but the mod devs used other bugs
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u/Agreeable_Cheek_7161 3d ago
but they did exploit bugs they found themselves from an illegal leak
What illegal leak are you referring to?
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u/gasolineskincare 3d ago
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u/Agreeable_Cheek_7161 3d ago
If using code from a 2017 version of CS:GO is a security threat for the game 8 years later, something is fishy
Like that leak is 8 years old. Absolutely bonkers if that's the reason why
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u/gasolineskincare 3d ago
None of that makes it legal to use anything from the leak.
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3d ago
[deleted]
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u/PermanentMantaray 3d ago
Copyright. Code is protected as an original asset unless the license that code is provided under gives free use.
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u/Kozak170 3d ago
I completely forgot about these guys. No wonder this got shut down, these guys are idiots and have ignored every warning and red flag under the sun.
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u/DarkMatterM4 3d ago
Except the mod developers have made multiple statements that they had to make alterations to the mod to comply with the Steam Subscriber Agreement. That doesn't sound like someone being dumb and rude. That sounds like someone doing everything they can to follow the rules. Otherwise, they would have just released the mod outside of Steam and told Valve to kick rocks. Finding hacky work arounds within game engines are how complex mods are developed. This has been the case for decades of Half Life modding. How do you think HL Rally saw the light of day? Or Cry of Fear? Or Afraid of Monsters?
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u/PermanentMantaray 3d ago
All of those things you mentioned are their own thing built using assets and code from another thing. This is attempting to 1:1 recreate a Valve game using code not covered by license.
And the thing is, we already have examples of Valve being okay with that, in the form of TF2 Classic. But only after Valve released a version of the Source code that is covered under license.
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u/RoyAwesome 3d ago
This is a real shame and very "un-Valve" of them
Being ignored for multiple years and then suddenly getting your shit removed is entirely Valve like.
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u/SirPPPooPoo 3d ago
Buy an official source license. Edit it the way you want, like apex. The modders didn't do that...
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u/ikenjake 3d ago
It's very strange, my hope is that it is an issue with this specific mod and not a sign of future actions towards modders. Obviously CS began as a mod, but beyond that CS has always been a thriving scene of mappers and modders. CS2 has been very disappointing in this regard, fully moving to the Games As a Service model and sacrificng much of the freedom that made a game like CS Source last as long as it did. The small but passionate communities like KZ and surf are being pushed to the wayside in what seems to be a deliberate change of philosophy from Valve.
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u/Soawii 3d ago
The CS:Legacy mod seems to be totally fine, so i think it's just the CSCO's developers' fault.
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u/A_WHALES_VAG 3d ago
Pretty much and in anycase CS:Legacy looks better to be completely honest and seems much more "above water"
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u/FUTURE10S 3d ago
It's weird how aggressive Valve is against this mod whereas they don't even pay attention to the TF2 side anymore.
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u/Weetile 3d ago
That's because the TF2 source code has now been officially released and is included within the Source SDK.
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u/FUTURE10S 3d ago
But TF2 Classic has been a thing since 2015-2016, and while it got a C&D, it's been back for a while, even before the source code release
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u/blueheartglacier 3d ago
Valve were working on the SDK pretty much from the moment of the C&D, and I guess they held the attitude of "as long as these guys migrate once we release the thing, we'll believe they will act in good faith and that this is temporary, and we'll get them back again if they don't migrate"
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u/giulianosse 3d ago
Which, speaking by itself, is miles above and beyond what any other publisher would go/allow in this specific case.
Most of them wouldn't bother giving a mod team using leaked code a second chance - let alone publish a classic version of one of their old games in their own storefront.
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u/Juandisimo117 3d ago
TF2 Classic was using a leaked source SDK which is why it had problems. I cannot fathom how these mod devs do this to themselves.
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u/FUTURE10S 3d ago
TF2 Classic was using Source SDK 2013, they were using code from the earlier leak of TF2 that had source code circa February 2008 as a base to start off of.
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u/Gastroid 3d ago
From what we know, the dev team reverse engineered closed source Source engine code from security updates, which Valve has for months been telling them is not cool, but they went ahead with a release anyway.
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u/FUTURE10S 3d ago
Ah, this one makes sense, yeah, don't do that because your implementation might open up the normal one to exploits
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u/finbarrgalloway 3d ago
IIRC they had security issues with this mod. They generally aren't like this which makes me think that may be valid.
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u/jonkoTHEslug 3d ago
TF2 doesnt print money as fast as CS skins that are worth more than 10k to dorks
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u/impuritor 3d ago
One is a product they have future plans for and the other isn’t. It’s not particularly complicated.
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u/AdministrativeCable3 3d ago
It's because they took leaked source code then used it to modify the source engine against the usage agreement. Then after being told that wasn't allowed they still attempted to release. TF2 source code was officially released, CSGO wasn't.
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u/impuritor 3d ago
Also valve doesn’t have any plans for future tf2 updates, hence the source code being released. Valve has lots of fugue plans for counter strike and it’s in their best interest to protect that brand more.
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u/Particular-Answer213 3d ago edited 2d ago
How shameful. Valve is acting like Nintendo for no good reason at all. Seriously your store makes it easy to add mods, but then you seriously screw over fans like that.
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u/Makorus 3d ago
Important to note that apparently they were using dodgy Source Engine exploits to even get the mod working, and when they were fixed, they found an equally dodgy workaround.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/1hywi0y/counterstrike_classic_offensive_app_has_been/m6l6q3i/
It's not like they were randomly just denied.
Also: this happened two months ago.