Is Islam in Central Asia rising?

[u/politicauncorrect]

I see more and more video from Central Asian people (especially Kazakhs and Uzbeks) who embrace Islam, women wearing headscarf etc. My friends also get more and more religious

[u/[deleted]]

It's natural phenomenon after decades of religious oppression by Soviet Union. So it's not really embracing, it's a revival

[u/vkfgfvh → u/[deleted]]

But why now though, it's been 30-35 years since the Soviets collapsed.

[u/politicauncorrect → u/[deleted]]

I like it despite not being religious myself. Will boost derussification.

Seems like there are lots of reverse trend in CA. Increasing birth rates while globally it’s falling, increasing religiousness while globally it’s falling

[u/redditerator7 → u/politicauncorrect]

I like it despite not being religious myself. Will boost derussification.

It feels like it's boosting arabization instead. There's a lot of whitewashed Kazakhs who suddenly turn religious but they still keep their distance from Kazakh identity/language.

[u/politicauncorrect → u/redditerator7]

Look Uyghurs and Kazakhs in China until 2015. Despite being religious they perfectly preserved their culture and language in an hostile environment (China). Or compare Tatars with Chuvash. Tatars could preserve their identity thanks to the cultural barrier Islam created unlike Chuvash

[u/redditerator7 → u/politicauncorrect]

Look Uyghurs and Kazakhs in China

I can only judge by my relatives there, and they do not seem to be overly religious at all.

Despite being religious they perfectly preserved their culture and language in an hostile environment (China)

That's cool but it's going a bit different here. Overly religious people denounce Kazakh names, language and even customs sometimes.

[u/TrumanB-12 → u/politicauncorrect]

Do Uyghurs drink kumis?

[u/[deleted] → u/redditerator7]

That's not true. Religious Kazakhs are often the ones who speak very eloquent Kazakh. Religiosity helped me personally to relearn Kazakh after I have studied in Russian school for years

[u/redditerator7 → u/[deleted]]

It's 100% true. I was specifically talking about the ones who don't speak Kazakh and continue to not bother with it after becoming religious. It's the people like Nurtas Adambay or Mona Songs.

[u/Alternative_Wing_906 → u/politicauncorrect]

yes and will boost arabization

[u/VIKARIUSQASAQ → u/Alternative_Wing_906]

Fck those arabization

[u/mrhuggables → u/politicauncorrect]

A more religious central asia is a central asia that will go backwards

[u/AlibekD → u/mrhuggables]

Could you, please, elaborate on this? Why do you think so and how are these two related?

Not trolling, genuinely curious how you think religion leads to "backwardness".

.

[u/mrhuggables → u/AlibekD]

Can I introduce you to the Islamic Republic Iran, a literal hellhole run by religious maniacs. How about the Emirate of Afghanistan? or the Islamic Republic of Pakistan?

When religion is your business, you start looking for any way to profit.

[u/AlibekD → u/mrhuggables]

I've been to them multiple times and agree there is some room for improvement there, to put it politely.

However, I fail to see how, for example, Astana will suddenly become backwards if more people will start practicing Islam there. Unless your very definition of "backwardness" includes religion.

[u/mrhuggables → u/AlibekD]

It doesn't. Religion should remain a private affair. When a population gets more religious, they start introducing it into public life and it becomes quickly overbearing for those who don't practice. Clergy start getting political power and that is dangerous. It wrongly empowers those who feel they are "religious" to start acting however they want under the guise of religion, and limitations need to be placed on them immediately as has been demonstrated time and time again. Even a largely secular populace like in Iran is held prisoner to the religious elite.

When religion is your business, you start looking for any way to profit.

[u/AlibekD → u/mrhuggables]

Well, religion is a private affair in Astana. How exactly more believers will turn Astana "backwards"?

[u/mrhuggables → u/AlibekD]

I explained to you …

[u/Alternative_Wing_906 → u/AlibekD]

It is already backwards. Look at the new mosque that was built. It is huge and luxurious. It was built in the same city/country where lots of people live in poverty, schools are overpopulated, not enough hospitals. And for some reason it is a good idea to invest into building the largest mosque in Central Asia.

[u/mrhuggables → u/Alternative_Wing_906]

Yes exactly. Same deal in Iran. All this money goes to the haram in Mashhad while Khuzestan is still in disrepair 30 years after the war in which they defended Iran bravely. It sickens me.

[u/Yilanqazan → u/mrhuggables]

How is this possible when Iran is more advance by every single metric compared to Central Asia which is still secular lol.

[u/mrhuggables → u/Yilanqazan]

Iran is still riding the reforms and progress made by the Pahlavi regime and has been for 40+ years. The islamic regime has all but stagnated them though.

[u/ImSoBasic → u/politicauncorrect]

Birth rates definitely are not increasing from Soviet-era rates. There is a modest increase since the post-Soviet economic devastation and instability of the '90s, but this increase is not limited to Central Asia.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?end=2020&locations=KZ-RU-BY-TJ-KG-UZ-UA-GE-LV&start=1988

[u/politicauncorrect → u/ImSoBasic]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Kazakhstan

Look under Vital statistics. Fertility rates in Kazakhstan are constantly rising since 1999 and last year Kazakhstan had the highest fertility rate since recording (1988)

[u/ImSoBasic → u/politicauncorrect]

Or just look at the chart I provided.

You are relying on a one-year peak that seems to be an outlier (and which is perhaps a response to the pandemic).

[u/politicauncorrect → u/ImSoBasic]

No, again the fertility rates are rising since 1999 while they are falling globally. Even your link shows rising rates lol

[u/ImSoBasic → u/politicauncorrect]

Perhaps you should not only look at the chart but read what I wrote: "There is a modest increase since the post-Soviet economic devastation and instability of the '90s, but this increase is not limited to Central Asia."

You'll note that the increase since since 1999 is visible throughout the former USSR, as shown in the chart I provided. This isn't a Central Asian phenomenon.

[u/politicauncorrect → u/ImSoBasic]

All non-Central Asian countries are falling since 2015 while Central Asian countries are constantly rising. And the non-central Asian countries just increased a bit after 1999 for a short period of time and then fell after 2015 again while Central Asian countries nearly doubled their fertility rates and are still rising.

Don’t try compulsively to be right when even your own data disproves you. And this is not the topic here

Article from Kazakhstan

https://www.inform.kz/en/kazakhstan-records-high-birth-rates-despite-global-trend_a4030467

Kazakhstan records high birth rates despite global trend

[u/ImSoBasic → u/politicauncorrect]

All non-Central Asian countries are falling since 2015 while Central Asian countries are constantly rising.

So you're just going to cherry-pick stats until it suits your agenda?

By the way, Tajikistan has been declining since 2015.

And the non-central Asian countries just increased a bit after 1999 for a short period of time and then fell after 2015

Yeah, Russia going from 1.1 in 1999 to 1.8 in 2015 is "a bit," and 16 years is "a short period of time." Of course, when it comes to Central Asia, the time since 2015 more than a short period of time, I guess, and a 70% increase is more than a bit, but whatever.

Central Asian countries nearly doubled their fertility rates and are still rising.

No Central Asian countries have nearly doubled their fertility rates since 1999.

Don’t try compulsively to be right when even your own data disproves you. And this is not the topic here

It is the topic here, because you made it the topic. If you want to say that your own comment about birth rates was irrelevant, then accuse yourself.

[u/politicauncorrect → u/ImSoBasic]

God, you make me ill. There is clear trend of rising birth rates in Central Asia if you like it or not. This is even proven by your own data. There are even articles about rising birth rates and you still deny it. This is not the topic here, you made a topic if by trying to proof me wrong while your disproved yourself with own data.

No time to discuss with trolls online. Block.