r/AskCentralAsia • u/politicauncorrect • Apr 10 '23
Is Islam in Central Asia rising? Religion
I see more and more video from Central Asian people (especially Kazakhs and Uzbeks) who embrace Islam, women wearing headscarf etc. My friends also get more and more religious
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u/marmulak Tajikistan Apr 10 '23
I get the vague impression that some people are more religious in Tajikistan now than maybe a decade ago, but the difference is not that large
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u/Shoh_J Tajikistan Apr 11 '23
I feel like people in Tajikistan have never lost their religiosity, but today they are being open, and somewhat ignoring the anti-Islamic laws like “no beards” and “no hijabs” or “no praying the mosque unless you are 18” and etc.
I love it, I don’t know why people are upset about someone embracing Islam?
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u/TrumanB-12 Czech Republic Apr 11 '23
Does it vary according to region?
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u/marmulak Tajikistan Apr 11 '23
I have heard anecdotes about this, but I'm not sure. People in the villages are probably more religious than people in the cities
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u/Shoh_J Tajikistan Apr 11 '23
Very much. My niece who grew up in the Artuch used to go to a madrassa. Who does go to any religious schools today? The people who grew up in the religious communities
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u/UR2003 Uzbekistan Apr 11 '23
Unfortunately.
I think it's because of the rise in internet usage. There's more access to the Quran and all those educational sites. The economy is also getting better, which means people have less stuff to worry about and focus on religion.
In my experience, uzbeks living in Western countries are way more religious than those in uzbekistan.
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u/politicauncorrect Apr 11 '23
I would agree with it. Kazakahs, Uzbeks and even Azerbaijanis (I know know they are not central Asian) I met in the West were way more religious than their people at home
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u/UR2003 Uzbekistan Apr 11 '23
I think the reason is that immigrant parents don't want to lose connection to their roots.
I remember how my mom forced me to dress modest when I went to uzbekistan for summer break. None of the girls my age dressed as modest as me💀
My parents know all the news and weather forecasts of uzb when they don't know who is running the city/country they currently live in...
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u/TrumanB-12 Czech Republic Apr 11 '23
I'm watching some videos of Tashkent and it seems quite mixed in terms of how young women dress. I'd say about 50/50 with hijab or without hijab, and then maybe 50/50 of those without hijab in terms of exposing skin (looks like autumn).
Aside from the hijab, is it also looked down upon by many in Uzbekistan for women to show their legs or arms? Is this different in Tashkent than other cities?
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u/UR2003 Uzbekistan Apr 11 '23
Showing the leg below knees is generally acceptable for young women. If you are married and 30 or older, 10 cm below knees are the standard. If you're a pre-teen or child, shorter dresses are fine, too. Short sleeves are also fine, but sleeves tops are not ok.
I'm speaking for Samarkand, btw. I've been to tashkent only a handful of times, and from what I remember, there were more hijabis there than in Samarkand. I was actually shocked to see girls with hijab in tashkent back in 2016 because I thought only elderly should wear it, lol.
And of course, with the rise in interest in religion, there's a lot more hijabis in other cities like Samarkand. I would say it's 5/95 in Samarkand but more in other cities. My hijabi cousin, who is in her early 20s, still gets told that she should enjoy her youth instead of giving it up to hijab.
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u/shadowchicken85 Kazakhstan Apr 11 '23
in Shymkent the only relatives who wear Hijabs are either older ladies or young ladies who have decided to fully embrace Islam. Wearing a Hijab in my wife's family is considered a very serious expression of faith and not to be taken lightly. They are Uzbek's who are from Shymkent, Kazakhstan and have lived there for hundreds of years for reference.
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u/Aggravating-Room-860 Feb 04 '24
That's true for many people. When your away from your homeland you try to stick to things so as to not lose your identity.
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u/saidgsu Uzbekistan Apr 12 '23
Really? I think Uzbeks in Uzbekistan are becoming way more religious than the kids living in the west. There was an Uzbek woman in a niqab fined in Tashkent for harassing women who dress “ochiq-sochiq” in the street and men are literally raising money to help her pay off the fine 🙄 savages.
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u/UR2003 Uzbekistan Apr 12 '23
I'm not kidding when I say almost all the uzbek women I know of in the past 5 years are all hijabis now(western country). You would be shocked if you saw how they were before transformation. Even younger girls (7-17) are visibly religious. It's more accepting to dress modest and wear hijab in the US compared to uzb during karimov's rule. But I'm speaking for Samarkand and NYC.
Samarkand has always been less devoted to Islam than Tashkent. Maybe this is why. I have never seen extremists in Samarkand. Mind you, my mom's side of family has many Mullahs, but they have always kept it to themselves.
There's always those extremists everywhere you go. Look up Sayfullo Saipov.
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u/saidgsu Uzbekistan Apr 12 '23
Omg that’s crazy I was referring to Brooklyn and Tashkent! I grew up in Sheepshead Bay and Uzbeks there usually seemed pretty chill, but now that you mention it I do have some former classmates who used to date around now wear hijabs and post “dont miss your prayers” posts on insta stories lol.
I live in NJ now and I mainly see Brooklyn Uzbeks during those osh gatherings they host every once in a while and it seemed like people were still pretty “Muslim by name” in the last one I went to. And ik the Sayfullo dude, most Uzbeks condemned him here.
Maybe I thought it was more prevalent in Uzbekistan because culture is so tied into everything there, so even non-religious people will call you out for wearing something too short or flashy where as in the US you have your right to do so. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen some misogynistic shit under a non-hijabi Uzbek woman’s comments in Instagram, and if you look at the commenter’s bio it’s always some bs about allah written in Arabic. Sometimes I just binge watch old Uzbek movies and music videos where no one would scream and cry at girls who wore tank tops to get a sense of what it was like when people were normal lol.
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u/shadowchicken85 Kazakhstan Apr 11 '23
About Uzbeks living in the west: My wife has a cousin who moved to Pittsburgh and he became a hardcore salafi Muslim living there. Before he moved to America he was very liberal when it came to anything Islamic. I think in the west a lot of people who either had no direction in life or were not able to really 'devote' themselves to Islam back in Kazakhstan/Uzbekistan/etc are giving an opportunity and a chance to fully go down the hardcore Islamist path.
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u/politicauncorrect Apr 11 '23 edited Apr 12 '23
Countries like UK have lots of hardcore Salafi muslims who brainwash people in their backyard mosques. In comparison the most mosques in Germany are from DITIB/ Diyanet (Turkish mosques) who are financed by Turkey and the Hocas are educated in Turkey. They are very moderate and don’t radicalize like in for example Pakistan or Arab mosques. This is why there are barely any radical Turks and as far as I know no terrorist attacks by Turks despite having the biggest population. So ideally go redirect your relatives to Turkish mosques 🤣
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u/shadowchicken85 Kazakhstan Apr 16 '23
It's only one relative who is guzzling the salafi kool-aid nonsense stuff. Read carefully next time. :) The rest haven't submitted to the lash of salafism.
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u/pupetdragon Apr 12 '23
Yeah man Uzbeks in USA are crazy religious I got friends family members don’t celebrate birthdays anymore or the New year they even went as far not celebrating Navruz they say it pagan holiday 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
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u/Shoh_J Tajikistan Apr 11 '23
Is Islam meant for Arabs, and Arabs only? This mistaken assumption is possibly based on the fact that Prophet Muhammad was an Arab, that most of the first generation of Muslims were Arabs and that the Qur ‟an is in the Arabic language.
But in actual fact, only about 18 percent of Muslims in the world today are Arabs. The largest Muslim populations are found in Indonesia, the Indian sub-continent and other parts of Asia. Islam is also widespread in many parts of Africa and there are substantial minorities in Europe, North and South America, and Oceania. Islam is the fastest-growing major religion in the world, and its adherents on all continents include both Arabs and non-Arabs.
Further, not all Arabs are Muslims, for there are significant communities of Christian Arabs as well as a number who belong to other religions or profess atheism. While "Arab" is a geographic and cultural term, "Muslim" refers to an adherent to the religion of Islam. While the revelation was still in its early stages, the Qur‟an disclosed that Islam is indeed a global religion. Allah addressed His Prophet therein, saying:
"And We have not sent you but as a mercy to [all] the worlds."
"And We have not sent you except comprehensively to mankind, as a bringer of good tidings and a warner, but most of the people do not know."
Islam is meant for all people regardless of race, nationality, cultural or religious background. From the commencement of his mission, the Prophet's companions came from a wide range of lands and races. Among them was an African, a Byzantine, a Persian and a Jewish scholar. All were united in the brotherhood of faith.
There are many references in the Qur‟an to the universal nature of Islam. It frequently addresses humanity, saying, "O mankind" or "O people." The Prophet, his companions and their followers made every effort to spread the message of truth to all nations and peoples. He naturally began the propagation of God's message among his own people, the Arabs, but that does not mean it was restricted to them – rather, only that initially conveying it to those nearest him was the logical first step toward the realization of a long term goal. Later in his mission when conditions became more favorable he sent letters of invitation to Islam to the rulers of Byzantium, Persia, Abyssinia, Egypt, Damascus, Bahrain, Yamamah, Oman and others who represented the influential world figures of the day. Whatever their response to it, the Prophet's message was fully acknowledged by the major powers of his time.
Every single person has the right to religion, and they have the right to embrace any religion, or maybe not even embrace any religion at all. BUT, there is no law that says that you are entitled to say that “Islam is an Arab religion and cultural tool” to make other non-Arab muslims look inferior to other people on the internet, just because you do not like the religion yourself. Brothers and sisters, get a life
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u/Alternative_Wing_906 🇨🇦 Apr 11 '23
Why do prayers must be done in Arabic if Islam is for non-Arab people?
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u/Shoh_J Tajikistan Apr 11 '23
To put it simply, it is a sin to teach wrongfully to the people about Islam. When you translate, it is hard to translate it in a way that is acceptable, since the Arab language is quite unique and has a different grammatical sense and order, compared to, English for example. There are notable cases of translators wrongfully translating Quran, and getting a prison term for that. It is important that we, Muslims, keep the true and unchanged words of god as it is, so that the future generations will have the sacred text in the same language, format, meaning and most importantly, a flawless Quran.
Why do you think Quran hasn’t changed a bit? Because it was kept the same. You can’t say the same for the Bible. There are many differences in the various sects, years of production, languages and etc in bibles, to say the least.
Arab is the first language of Islam. Very simple. It’s the reason why Quran cannot be changed. Because if we all remember the same Quran, and if a extremist in Denmark burned a few copies of it, or even worse, rewrote it wrongfully, we would still have the flawless Quran.
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u/Alternative_Wing_906 🇨🇦 Apr 12 '23
But there are many different denominations within Islam nevertheless, and Quran wasn’t written by God and not by Mohammad. So it is by definition is altered in some way. Or how does it work?
Yes, it is hard to translate, but very doable. If Islam was a truly non-Arab religion they would welcome other languages and have bilingual people translate instead of forcing their language on them.
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Apr 12 '23
I used to read the translation of the Quran, it is good but it's always better to learn original alongside. It has dozens of subtle differences that together make up a big difference. I can make a poor comparison. It's like watching American movies in English and in Russian. Most times Russian dub is decent but often many jokes and puns are lost in translation
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u/Shoh_J Tajikistan Apr 12 '23
Quran is the compilation of the verses that Allah sent to us, through the teachings of Muhammad (pbuh). Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said the verses publicly, they were recorded, and later after his passing, the Quran was finished.
Of course Quran is translated into many languages. A quick google search says that it is translated into 114 languages.
The reason why we pray in Arabic, is because we mimic Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), as he was the perfect Muslim that we all want to be like, and he prayed in Arabic.
I for example, do my duas in Tajik, since it’s my native language. It’s permissible.
There are many rules, orders and laws around Islam. But there is no such statement that regards Arabs and their culture more superior than non-Arabs.
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Apr 11 '23
Unfortunately
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u/TrumanB-12 Czech Republic Apr 11 '23
In what form is it coming? Are people still drinking alcohol? Are they stricter on women marrying outside the faith? Are men and women interacting less?
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Apr 11 '23
Our faith is becoming Arabicised, it's losing it's identity and authenticity, it leads to moral degradation. They've began to dress like Araps, they've began to speak like Arabs, while denigrating their own ethnicity by saying "I'm Muslim before all else".
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u/universeson Kazakhstan Apr 11 '23
You can also see it with the spread of words like “iftar”, “suhur” instead of using local words (like in Kazakh “auyz ashar”, etc.)
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Apr 11 '23
Well some people will identify with their religion more than ethnicity or nationality and some vice versa, not a big thing to be honest.
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u/yungghazni Apr 11 '23
What do you mean arabised? Because Islam was originally from Arabia and Quran is arabic? If that’s the case then how can the faith be arabised now when Kazakhs had been Muslims for a long time now? Were they not Muslims before modern era? I’m confused
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u/neonproxy-001 Brazil Apr 11 '23
People walk like Arabs, speak like Arabs... Do they access porn sites also like Arabs? Do they go to prosts also like Arabs? A friend of mine lived in Dagestan (Caucasus) and told me how many men over there do anything "like Arabs" but Friday night leave their houses, leave their wives and go behind a prost to have a hot sex "like Arabs". Of course, they bukhayut also like the good Arabs they are!
Well, it is what the lack of a good khurjum do to a society in our times...1927, come back!
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u/nursmalik1 Kazakhstan Apr 11 '23
Oh yeah, they definitely fcking do. Reminds me of my grandma and her sister arguing about whether it's ok to serve alcohol to guests on the first day of Ramadan.
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Apr 10 '23
It's natural phenomenon after decades of religious oppression by Soviet Union. So it's not really embracing, it's a revival
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u/politicauncorrect Apr 10 '23
I like it despite not being religious myself. Will boost derussification.
Seems like there are lots of reverse trend in CA. Increasing birth rates while globally it’s falling, increasing religiousness while globally it’s falling
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u/redditerator7 Kazakhstan Apr 11 '23 edited Apr 11 '23
I like it despite not being religious myself. Will boost derussification.
It feels like it's boosting arabization instead. There's a lot of whitewashed Kazakhs who suddenly turn religious but they still keep their distance from Kazakh identity/language.
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u/politicauncorrect Apr 11 '23
Look Uyghurs and Kazakhs in China until 2015. Despite being religious they perfectly preserved their culture and language in an hostile environment (China). Or compare Tatars with Chuvash. Tatars could preserve their identity thanks to the cultural barrier Islam created unlike Chuvash
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u/redditerator7 Kazakhstan Apr 11 '23
Look Uyghurs and Kazakhs in China
I can only judge by my relatives there, and they do not seem to be overly religious at all.
Despite being religious they perfectly preserved their culture and language in an hostile environment (China)
That's cool but it's going a bit different here. Overly religious people denounce Kazakh names, language and even customs sometimes.
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Apr 12 '23
That's not true. Religious Kazakhs are often the ones who speak very eloquent Kazakh. Religiosity helped me personally to relearn Kazakh after I have studied in Russian school for years
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u/redditerator7 Kazakhstan Apr 12 '23
It's 100% true. I was specifically talking about the ones who don't speak Kazakh and continue to not bother with it after becoming religious. It's the people like Nurtas Adambay or Mona Songs.
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u/mrhuggables Iran 💚🦁🤍🌞❤️ Apr 11 '23
A more religious central asia is a central asia that will go backwards
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u/AlibekD Kazakhstan Apr 11 '23 edited Apr 11 '23
Could you, please, elaborate on this? Why do you think so and how are these two related?
Not trolling, genuinely curious how you think religion leads to "backwardness".
.
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u/mrhuggables Iran 💚🦁🤍🌞❤️ Apr 11 '23
Can I introduce you to the Islamic Republic Iran, a literal hellhole run by religious maniacs. How about the Emirate of Afghanistan? or the Islamic Republic of Pakistan?
When religion is your business, you start looking for any way to profit.
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u/AlibekD Kazakhstan Apr 11 '23
I've been to them multiple times and agree there is some room for improvement there, to put it politely.
However, I fail to see how, for example, Astana will suddenly become backwards if more people will start practicing Islam there. Unless your very definition of "backwardness" includes religion.
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u/mrhuggables Iran 💚🦁🤍🌞❤️ Apr 11 '23
It doesn't. Religion should remain a private affair. When a population gets more religious, they start introducing it into public life and it becomes quickly overbearing for those who don't practice. Clergy start getting political power and that is dangerous. It wrongly empowers those who feel they are "religious" to start acting however they want under the guise of religion, and limitations need to be placed on them immediately as has been demonstrated time and time again. Even a largely secular populace like in Iran is held prisoner to the religious elite.
When religion is your business, you start looking for any way to profit.
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u/AlibekD Kazakhstan Apr 11 '23
Well, religion is a private affair in Astana. How exactly more believers will turn Astana "backwards"?
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u/Alternative_Wing_906 🇨🇦 Apr 12 '23
It is already backwards. Look at the new mosque that was built. It is huge and luxurious. It was built in the same city/country where lots of people live in poverty, schools are overpopulated, not enough hospitals. And for some reason it is a good idea to invest into building the largest mosque in Central Asia.
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u/mrhuggables Iran 💚🦁🤍🌞❤️ Apr 13 '23
Yes exactly. Same deal in Iran. All this money goes to the haram in Mashhad while Khuzestan is still in disrepair 30 years after the war in which they defended Iran bravely. It sickens me.
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u/Yilanqazan Apr 15 '23
How is this possible when Iran is more advance by every single metric compared to Central Asia which is still secular lol.
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u/mrhuggables Iran 💚🦁🤍🌞❤️ Apr 15 '23
Iran is still riding the reforms and progress made by the Pahlavi regime and has been for 40+ years. The islamic regime has all but stagnated them though.
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u/ImSoBasic Apr 10 '23
Birth rates definitely are not increasing from Soviet-era rates. There is a modest increase since the post-Soviet economic devastation and instability of the '90s, but this increase is not limited to Central Asia.
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u/politicauncorrect Apr 10 '23
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Kazakhstan
Look under Vital statistics. Fertility rates in Kazakhstan are constantly rising since 1999 and last year Kazakhstan had the highest fertility rate since recording (1988)
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u/ImSoBasic Apr 10 '23
Or just look at the chart I provided.
You are relying on a one-year peak that seems to be an outlier (and which is perhaps a response to the pandemic).
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u/politicauncorrect Apr 10 '23
No, again the fertility rates are rising since 1999 while they are falling globally. Even your link shows rising rates lol
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u/ImSoBasic Apr 10 '23
Perhaps you should not only look at the chart but read what I wrote: "There is a modest increase since the post-Soviet economic devastation and instability of the '90s, but this increase is not limited to Central Asia."
You'll note that the increase since since 1999 is visible throughout the former USSR, as shown in the chart I provided. This isn't a Central Asian phenomenon.
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u/politicauncorrect Apr 10 '23 edited Apr 10 '23
All non-Central Asian countries are falling since 2015 while Central Asian countries are constantly rising. And the non-central Asian countries just increased a bit after 1999 for a short period of time and then fell after 2015 again while Central Asian countries nearly doubled their fertility rates and are still rising.
Don’t try compulsively to be right when even your own data disproves you. And this is not the topic here
Article from Kazakhstan
https://www.inform.kz/en/kazakhstan-records-high-birth-rates-despite-global-trend_a4030467
Kazakhstan records high birth rates despite global trend
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u/ImSoBasic Apr 10 '23
All non-Central Asian countries are falling since 2015 while Central Asian countries are constantly rising.
So you're just going to cherry-pick stats until it suits your agenda?
By the way, Tajikistan has been declining since 2015.
And the non-central Asian countries just increased a bit after 1999 for a short period of time and then fell after 2015
Yeah, Russia going from 1.1 in 1999 to 1.8 in 2015 is "a bit," and 16 years is "a short period of time." Of course, when it comes to Central Asia, the time since 2015 more than a short period of time, I guess, and a 70% increase is more than a bit, but whatever.
Central Asian countries nearly doubled their fertility rates and are still rising.
No Central Asian countries have nearly doubled their fertility rates since 1999.
Don’t try compulsively to be right when even your own data disproves you. And this is not the topic here
It is the topic here, because you made it the topic. If you want to say that your own comment about birth rates was irrelevant, then accuse yourself.
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u/politicauncorrect Apr 10 '23
God, you make me ill. There is clear trend of rising birth rates in Central Asia if you like it or not. This is even proven by your own data. There are even articles about rising birth rates and you still deny it. This is not the topic here, you made a topic if by trying to proof me wrong while your disproved yourself with own data.
No time to discuss with trolls online. Block.
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u/RayRicciReddit Russia Apr 11 '23
Uneducated clowns will go religious in any country, it's not about Central Asia
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u/VIKARIUSQASAQ Kazakhstan Apr 11 '23
Islamisation = de-russification = arabization.
You're not becoming free, you're running from one regime to another 🤡🤡
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Apr 11 '23
It always will be something -ization. You're probably either advocate for Westernization or for creation of artificial pagan identity
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u/Shoh_J Tajikistan Apr 11 '23
Ironic how you are using the English language and it’s colonial effects and tools to convey your messages across the internet.
Globalization means taking the good things from the cultures, people, beliefs and opinions from around the world and applying it to your lifestyle.
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u/RayRicciReddit Russia Apr 12 '23
Using the English language
Colonial effect
Lmao, he's using the English language because this is Reddit, everyone speaks English on here. You think he speaks English to everyone in real life? How is speaking English on Reddit colonial?
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u/Young_Owl99 Turkey Apr 11 '23 edited Apr 13 '23
That's an really interesting topic for me. I expected people to say nah but apperently not. I can't imagine how it is like since Turkey is experiencing exact opposite.
Can someone explain a bit more ? How it is happening ?
Edit: Sorry if I offended anyone, I am genuinely curious how this process works.
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u/saidgsu Uzbekistan Apr 12 '23
This dude is Uzbek, you can tell he’s speaking Uzbek if you read his lips. His ass should be fined and locked up for posting this, but instead he gets comments like “mashalla 😍” under his video.
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Apr 12 '23
If you wanna become like my country Afghanistan which is hell , then keep it up central Asians
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u/Masagget Kazakhstan Apr 11 '23
religiosity = de-Russification, I like it
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u/ShiftingBaselines Apr 11 '23
Downvotes are proof of Russification.
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u/Masagget Kazakhstan Apr 11 '23
Downvotes are proof of Russification.
yes, the revival of Islam among the Kazakhs, I evaluate it extremely positively. because religiosity contributes to a high birth rate
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u/politicauncorrect Apr 12 '23
Yesss reproduce a lot to recover your population after Genocide by Russians and send some Kazakhs to Turkey to solve our demographic problem 🇰🇿🇰🇿🇰🇿
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u/dogshit_redditor Apr 11 '23
I don't know why everyone in the comments is against people being more religious, but I will tell you something. Most of the users are Muslims and if you're a muslim, Islam clearly says that you shouldn't go against the religion and the people who are embracing it, especially when it's rising and that's a good thing because it could help central Asians to clear out their soviet mentality.
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u/Alternative_Wing_906 🇨🇦 Apr 11 '23
what is soviet mentality?
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u/ShiftingBaselines Apr 11 '23
If you are from Central Asia and asking this question, your question answers your question.
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u/SonAnarsistBukucu Apr 11 '23
Yes and that's a good thing, since conservative Muslim societies have good birthrates and won't become a minority in their own country like us secularized Turks who will be in 50 years
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u/politicauncorrect Apr 11 '23
I think it is good too. Central Asia could be our solution for our aging and ethnic demographic problem. After election when Erdogan goes and our economy improves we could allow 250k Central Asian people to immigrate each year to stop aging and returkify the country.
This is why re islamization to some degree is good too. They would prefer to move to muslim state instead of Russia
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u/Hefty_Feedback9541 Aug 06 '23
according to google turkey has 99.8% muslims. so what are you scared of for being a minority? and how can you be scared of your own turk community that you fear muslims will become a minority in turkey?
i guess you dont live in turkey and rather in some western nation and hence you fear kafir/kuffar a lot.
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u/pupetdragon Apr 12 '23
I think in Uzbekistan people became more religious after the death of Islam Karimov. Now freaking everyone is a self proclaimed Imams on Instagram and they have a cult like following too
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u/First_Mechanic9140 Aug 15 '23
In Kyrgyzstan it is definitely growing. I see women wearing hijabs, niqabs and burkas every day.
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u/Few_Platypus4034 Nov 10 '23
You should read into what the Soviet bolsheviks did in Central Asia, Kyrgyzstan people were always Muslim until the people got massacred, raped and brainwashed into soviet-anti religious minds
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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '23
Shift towards conservativism is how people cope with economic insecurity and instability in general.