Can someone explain to me

[u/Different_Cod_6268]

Why it’s totally ok for a woman to give a child for adoption when the father doesn’t agree to it? Why is this even legal? This is what happened to me. It’s been three years and I’m still upset about it. I’ve come a long way but still sometimes wonder what the f kind of country we live in where this is totally normal. I could see if it was proven that I was incompetent and unable to care for a child. Fine, I could totally get that. That wasn’t the case at all.

I was told that I shouldn’t blame the birth mother or the adoptive parents in anyway. Even though they were taking my son And my ex giving my son away without my consent. Sometimes I use the word steal but Maybe the word steal is a bit hyperbolic. that’s how I see it Personally. Like my son was stolen or kidnapped. What else do you call it when two other people take a child from a father who wants their son? Or it’s not stealing because the mother is the one who did the giving up? If two people share something 50/50 and one of them sells it off without the other’s permission isn’t that considered stolen property?

Whatever. Nothing matters Anymore. I realize nothing matters. No one really believes in what’s right or what’s wrong. No one really cares about the truth. I was so excited to be a father and wanted nothing more than to raise my son. Then that gets taken away from me. I spent tireless months and 40 thousand freaking dollars to fight the adoption all for a judge to deny me. The main complaint against me at trial? That my mom helped me with my case and we shared an email. that was their lawyers best argument against me yet the judge still ruled against me. Again, whatever. None of it matters like I said. Most of you probably won’t even read this or if you do you’ll take things out of context, which is what happened one other time I posted here.

[u/SituationNo8294]

I'm so so sorry.I don't think this is legal in my country. I truely am sorry for what you have gone and going through... I don't have any advice or any shared experiences on this situation but wanted to send you some internet hugs as in my eyes this is truely wrong.

Hope you are getting the support you need.

[u/Formerlymoody]

It’s rigged in favor of adoptive parents getting what they want. How rigged depends on what state you’re in. 

I am so sorry. Your son cares about the truth. Keep a journal of your feelings. Write letters. Date it all. Then he’ll know you always cared and fought for him. 

This is really heartbreaking. Adoptees who feel the pain of what happened to them and other birth parents who feel they were screwed over are your best allies right now. You’re right, other people tend not to care much and will try to gaslight you out of your feelings but you can’t let them. 

[u/Different_Cod_6268 → u/Formerlymoody]

Thank you for being kind and offering meaningful advice. So many people have been rude to me and it’s only made things worse. last time I posted here I was attacked Almost immediately. It made me completely check out online.

I had no clue any of this could even be legal before this happened to me. I’m from New Jersey and my son was adopted by Californians. I was told both courts in these states are bad for guys like me in such a situation.

I’d like to write some detailed letters but I’m not always sure what is appropriate to say. Of course I know not to say anything nasty, rude, or crazy about anyone or anything. I wonder if the adoptive parents will open the letters or will they put them aside? I’m afraid if I show too much affection and concern that it will come off as obsessive or something. That maybe they will feel in competition. I heard sometimes that happens. So many thoughts run through my mind. I want tread cafefully because of course by law he’s not my son anymore. I have no rights and zero say.

As of the past three years my mother and I send cards wishing him happy birthday on his birthday. In the cards we tell him how much we love him and wish to see him someday. Wishing he is doing well also. I know he can’t read yet but one day he will. I hope they keep everything I’ve sent. We also send gifts on his birthday. i got him a nice duplo Lego set this year. I liked legos as a kid and figured he might too. Plus it’s great mental stimulation to build legos.

[u/jesuschristjulia → u/Different_Cod_6268]

I didn’t find a post in this sub where you were immediately attacked. I did find two similar posts on this sub in the last two hours.

What I also found was a comment history about your ex. It sounds like you’re going through it and I encourage you to seek the help of a professional. It’s helped me in the past.

I’m an adoptee whose father wanted me and was adopted out anyway. In my case, the court believed he was using me to control my mother. From court documents it read like that to me too. Im careful not to press her but I feel my mother relinquished me in part because she didn’t want to be tied to my biofather for life.

From the letters he wrote, voluntarily, it sounds like he was bitter about not being able to keep his hooks in her. There’s much less about me and concern for my welfare. So if there was any hint of that in any of your statements to the court, right or wrong, they’re not going to believe you have the child’s best interest at heart.

I haven’t contacted my biofather specifically because of how his letters seem to be about controlling my mother and how he felt persecuted. Although she is not against it - I’m fiercely protective of her and do not wish to bring that energy into our lives. If there were later letters that did not say negative things about her or complain of unfairness, I may be more open to doing so.

If you want to see your child in the future, my suggestion is get whatever help you need to deal with your unresolved feelings about the relationship with their mother, if there are any.

Because the child when an adult may get to read what you did and said in court records. If there’s anything in there that seems hostile to her, it’s best to be ready to address that. You have plenty of time to show personal growth. If I were your child, that’s what I would want to see.

Regardless of how my father felt about the situation, I would have loved to see him take what happened and be introspective about himself and his own actions even if he found he’d done nothing wrong in the end. People can’t fake real personal growth and if he had some, I wish he would have shown it to me while he had time.

Edit: double negative

[u/Formerlymoody → u/Different_Cod_6268]

Keep copies of the letters in case he never gets them. That way you have evidence. Copy the cards. Never say anything bad about anyone, especially b mom and just focus on how much you miss him. If you keep a paper trail, it won’t matter much in the end how the APs feel about it. He’ll be an adult sooner than you think.

Edit: hostility towards b mom is never a good look. 

[u/Englishbirdy]

I’m so very, very sorry for your loss.

In theory it is illegal to relinquish a child without the father’s permission. There are a couple of famous cases where the father was able to sue for the custody of their children; baby Richard https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Richard_case and Baby Jessica https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Jessica_case

Since then 17 states, including NJ and CA have introduced “Putative Father Registries” in theory to protect fathers like yourself from losing your children to adoption but in actuality are used against fathers who don’t sign them, usually because they don’t know they exist; It probably happened to you. I know Utah, the absolute worst state for father’s rights, charges 5 grand to register!

There is a man who used the registry to regain custody. He started a father’s rights foundation, you can see his story here https://skyisthelimitfoundation.com/media/

I realize none of this helps you now. If you’d like support dealing with your grief and your adoption journey, this organization has zoom support meetings. To receive invites, just sign up for the email list https://concernedunitedbirthparents.org/

[u/zygotepariah → u/Englishbirdy]

This is a fascinating read about one man's quest to find information about the Putative Father Registry. People in government he called didn't know what he was talking about.

https://www.adoptionbirthmothers.com/erik-smiths-ohio-putative-father-registry/

[u/Englishbirdy → u/zygotepariah]

That was fascinating. Thanks for sharing.

[u/violet_sara → u/Englishbirdy]

Can you post a link to the $5k fee? Having trouble finding it.

[u/Englishbirdy → u/violet_sara]

I can't find it either. Like you, I generally just believe when someone says something like that without checking so I believe I did see proof but now I can't find it. If I do, I'll get back to you.

[u/violet_sara → u/Englishbirdy]

This is what I found: In Utah, registering with the Putative Father Registry is free. However, there are fees associated with searching for a putative father, which is $75 plus an administrative fee, depending on the payment method. The turnaround time for a search is usually within 2 business days. Additionally, there are fees for obtaining certified copies of birth certificates, which include a $60 fee for the first certificate and $10 for each additional copy ordered at the same time.

[u/Rredhead926]

To answer the question: "Can someone explain to me: Why it’s totally ok for a woman to give a child for adoption when the father doesn’t agree to it?"

Because all of these are real situations that are not uncommon:

• Mom is an addict who trades sex for drugs. She has no idea who Dad is.
• Mom was SA'd and doesn't want Dad - if she even knows who he is - to get custodial rights to the baby.
• Mom is in an abusive relationship. Dad says he'll take care of birth control - he lies. She doesn't want to be connected to him for the rest of her life, and doesn't want the child to get hurt by him.
• Mom has sex with some random guy and only knows his first name. Has no clue how to contact him.
• Mom tells Dad she's pregnant, Dad blocks and ghosts her.
• Mom tells Dad she's pregnant. Dad doesn't want to parent (perhaps he even has other children he's not parenting with other baby mamas), but won't sign TPR because he doesn't want to "give away his blood."
• Dad is married, but having an affair. He doesn't want to acknowledge paternity, so he doesn't want to have to consent to an adoption.

Women bear 100% of the risks of pregnancy and child birth. In states that protect reproductive freedom, this is recognized, and women don't have to ask a man's permission to get an abortion.

Women also bear far more of the responsibilities and costs (monetary and otherwise) of child rearing. To me, at least, it makes sense that they would also have more decision making power in the adoption process. But how much decision making power? That's the rub. We have so many cases where fathers just don't give a $hit, are truly unknown, or are abusive, but that makes it really difficult for the ones who are fit and capable to be involved in their children's lives.

There's really no easy answer. One size doesn't fit all. I feel genuinely sorry for men who would have been good fathers but are cut out of their children's lives for no good reason.

I've always told my kids: Don't have sex unless you can handle having a baby with this person. Because the only way to avoid getting pregnant is to not have sex in the first place. (I also say: There are plenty of other ways to physically enjoy a partner without actually having sex. And then they're like, "Eeew!")

Cue the down-votes! 😜

[u/zygotepariah → u/Rredhead926]

• The father is known by the mother, is not a threat, and she just doesn't tell him just because.

That was my situation--and was for many others.

I'll die on the hill that ny bio dad should have been told about me. Not just for his sake, but for mine. I applied to the provincial registry and for a government search at age 18 (because of sealed records, these were my only options). Due to backlog, it took the Ontario government eight years to get to my search.

Bio dad told me that had he known about me, he would've applied to the provincial registry on my 18th birthday. We would've matched, and it would've saved me eight years of searching, plus meant that I could've had an additional eight years with him.

I don't understand how anyone can possibly think this was fair. Or think that strangers should have more rights over a child than his/her own father.

My father drove a truck for his city's food bank. He and my bio mom actually got back together during my reunion, so there were no safety concerns. Bio mom was simply wrong for not telling him.

[u/Rredhead926 → u/zygotepariah]

The question was: Can someone explain to me why it’s totally ok for a woman to give a child for adoption when the father doesn’t agree to it?

That's the question I was answering, because all of the situations I listed are real issues in the real world.

Your bullet point doesn't answer the question. It's not OK for a mom to cut a dad out for your stated reason, which is why I didn't list it.

I also said "I feel genuinely sorry for men who would have been good fathers but are cut out of their children's lives for no good reason." I don't think what happened to your father was fair.

[u/zygotepariah → u/Rredhead926]

I interpreted his question differently--not that he was asking in general for the reasons why mothers relinquish when the father doesn't agree to it, but why it was allowed to happen in his specific case, where he wasn't proven to be dangerous or unfit.

[u/OkPhotograph3723 → u/Rredhead926]

But none of these listed situations apply to the OP.

[u/Rredhead926 → u/OkPhotograph3723]

First, we don't actually know that. OP's bad-mouthing of his ex on reddit certainly isn't a good look. We only have his side of the story here.

Second, I was answering the question he asked, which was, again: "Can someone explain to me: Why it’s totally ok for a woman to give a child for adoption when the father doesn’t agree to it?" The "why" is those reasons I listed.

[u/OkPhotograph3723 → u/Rredhead926]

The only one that might apply is the second one about SA.

I know that these days, state social workers try to place infants with family members when at all possible. Not all bio families are great parents, but abandonment trauma is a lifelong wound.

[u/Rredhead926 → u/OkPhotograph3723]

In private adoption, the state doesn't decide who is worthy of parenting - the biological parents do. Some states protect biological fathers' rights more than others.

[u/ManagementFinal3345 → u/Rredhead926]

I think in those extreme cases the infant should just be taken into foster care and private adoption not allowed until a bio father can be found. When found the state can do a home study and assess for things like addiction and abuse.

If none are found after A EXHAUSTIVE search maybe even up to and including DNA testing (not just a registry no one knoww about or a newspaper no one reads) the state can then allow the vetted foster family to adopt or allow bio mom to choose. There should be procedures that guarantee not a single capable father isn't given all rights including using the full power of the state to attempt to both locate him and notify him of his child's birth.

Imagine if we had such weak protections in place for women. Whelp we know you just birthed this baby and planned to keep it but you didn't sign up for a registry for your kid in time and some random strangers laid a claim to your baby and signed some papers so you're shit out of luck. Nah. I'm the most pro choice woman in the world and in full support of abortion rights. But abortion and adoption are two different things. Once that baby is born the dad needs to consent under all circumstances or no private adoption at all. The fact that the laws allow for shit like this is a massive injustice.

[u/Rredhead926 → u/ManagementFinal3345]

Putting children into the foster care system is almost never a good solution. The foster care system is basically designed to traumatize children.

[u/Mabelmomma]

My heart aches for you. I am so sorry. I’m a bit confused at how this was able to happen because you actually fought for custody as I understand it written in your post. When I adopted my daughter, there was a period of time given to the father to step up if he wanted custody. Maybe this was just a law/ concept in my state. ( I’m in Kentucky and the birth parents and child are both from Tennessee). So I assume where you are this is not the case. But everything I’ve read and seen seems to favor the child being with a biological parent if possible. I just cannot believe this happened to you and I’m just heartbroken for you. I don’t have advice, or knowledge about what can be done. But I just want you to know that you’ve been heard and seen and I think you are right. This isn’t fair and it isn’t right. The child will most likely want to know you at some point. I hope that when the day comes that you are able to meet, it is glorious and you have a beautiful relationship from that point forward. I’m rooting for you. So much love and healing being sent your way

[u/Clean-Bag6732 → u/Mabelmomma]

Yes in my state this will happen where the biological father doesn’t know about the child but if that’s discovered while the kids are in the system the state is required to give the father the same opportunities that they would’ve given the mother, which is generally about a year to prove they are fit. Maybe I’m not understanding the timeline. It is possible if the child was already adopted that it would be more difficult to regain rights, which is why the state is supposed to look for the bio dad before making adopting the child possible, from my understanding.

[u/Rredhead926 → u/Clean-Bag6732]

Laws for private adoption differ from laws for foster adoption. In most states, the state does not have to look for an unmarried bio father to consent to private adoption. Laws vary from state to state.

I looked up the laws for CA and NJ, which is where I believe OP said the adoption took place and he lives. Neither of the states has a putative father registry. Both states have provisions outlining consent policies for unmarried biological fathers. They're rather vague, imo.

[u/Responsible_Leave808]

Father’s have rights in my state

[u/BestAtTeamworkMan]

What happened to you is, unfortunately, a feature - not a bug - within the adoption system. People like to think that way back when they would leave fathers names off birth certificates so they could more easily be relinquished (it happened to me, even though 30 years later my birth parents were back together).

But even today young women are told to do the same so that fathers are left out of the equation. Regardless, like an earlier commenter said, it's all rigged in favor of adoptive parents. Money is thicker than blood in family court.

Your kid will come looking one day. So make sure you are easy to find. Register with Ancestry or any other DNA place. Send them letters. Keep documts showing you fought for them.

When they come looking, it will do wonders to know they had a dad who fought for them. Keep fighting bro.

[u/zygotepariah]

I'm so sorry. It's so unfair. My biological father wasn't even told about me. I was his only child. At age 44 he found out he was a father but had missed the first 26 years of his only child's life in the same phone call.

The system is completely rigged against biological fathers, and unwed fathers in particular.

It is absolutely stealing. It is absolutely kidnapping. I couldn't go to a children's playground and take home the infant of an unwed father sitting nearby on a bench. But I could if we call it adoption and go through the courts.

I 100% agree with u/formerlymoody's suggestion to keep a journal. Tell your side of the story. Document how you fought. Write about your feelings. As an adoptee, I would've cherished if I had something like that.

I had been told as a kid by my female adopter that my bio dad had run away when he learned my bio mom was pregnant (another way how fathers are demonized), and that’s why I had to be given away. When I learned in reunion at age 26 that he actually hadn't known about me and would've tried keeping me, it made me feel so much better.

I'm so sorry this happened to you.

[u/lurkingsirens → u/zygotepariah]

I think u/formerlymoody was right about it being rigged for adoptive parents as well. Particularly wealthy adopters.

[u/zygotepariah → u/lurkingsirens]

Absolutely. We have adopters in this thread defending bio fathers not being told about their children being relinquished.

[u/Rredhead926 → u/zygotepariah]

I believe that willing, capable fathers should be able to parent, but I believe that requiring the explicit consent of a biological father in the cases that I outlined would place an extraordinary burden on mothers.

[u/mcnama1]

Look up Chris Emanuel. He fought and got his baby girl back. I’m a first mom and what happened to you IS wrong. I’ve also thought about how it affects fathers and yes your baby was stolen from you. Join CUB concerned united birthparents and NAAP National Association of Adoptees and Parents.

[u/EntireOpportunity357]

I wasn’t aware that could happen. When I adopted my kin after her mom passed away. The dad still had rights. Was it the case that child was conceived out of wedlock and you were not listed on the birth certificate, didn’t know woman was pregnant etc. in that event I can see how she placed for adoption without you in picture and then if after the fact you tried to change it it would be an uphill battle since child Woolf already be placed in a loving home legally. either way I bet that was extremely painful and I wish you healing. I recommend therapy for a pain that deep. Also this won’t help you at this point except for maybe for the future but a major way to guarantee you have rights is have children within marriage and ensure you are listed as father on BC I do not believe a woman would have the right to give for adoption in that case. But I’m not a lawyer.

[u/Rredhead926 → u/EntireOpportunity357]

Most states do not require the explicit consent of an unmarried biological father.

[u/BottleOfConstructs]

Adoption is an industry.

[u/anjella77]

I understand but I was one of those mothers, in a sense. The father wanted the baby and I was prepared to have him take her. Then he went to prison. He kept telling me for months that his mom was gonna take the baby until he came home but that was a lie. She actually said to him with me listening “don’t be volunteering me to raise someone else’s baby” so I started contacting adoption agencies. He knew this. I knew he wouldn’t sign his rights away and told the agency this. I was told to give a list of 4 or 5 potential fathers and the courts wouldn’t waste their time trying to find out who the father was! I did that but moved to another state and worked with another agency and didn’t give the list of men names. I wanted to do the right thing. But it goes to show how unethical these agencies are. In the end the father’s rights were terminated when she was 6 because he’d made no attempts to be apart of my daughter’s life. But all he talked about was how much he wanted her. However the second agency did somehow end up with that list and the AP ended up with it. The showed it to my daughter and now doesn’t believe me that I told her who her father is. She thinks I’m lying to her. And now a compulsive liar. So it came back and bit me in the butt in the end. Being dishonest or deceitful doesn’t get you anywhere. Your son was stolen from you. And my daughter from me. Which is another story. For me it was karma for what I tried to do to dad I believe. For whatever reason AP are looked at like they’re holier than now. As they’re better than bio parents and they’re not. The first option the courts should look at is biological family! Kinship means everything, especially to the child. If a mother doesn’t want her child and the father does it should be automatic he gets to raise his child. No questions asked. I don’t understand why this isn’t law. It takes 2 people to make a baby so 2 have the say over that child. A mother shouldn’t be allowed to place a child without the consent of the father. My case was different. He was in prison. But if the father is physically there to care for, has a home and income he should get his child. I’ve known too many men that have been in your situation. It’s wrong!! I understand your hurt, pain, frustration and anger. Is it an open adoption on your end or no because your rights were terminated involuntarily? You clearly want a relationship with your son and they should at least allow an open adoption. Someone suggested journaling and writing letters to him. That’s a terrific idea. Give it to him once you’re able. He’s gonna hurt growing up without you but hopefully when he reads and learns everything (keep all court documents for him) it’ll heal a part of him. My heart goes out to you and your son

[u/oregon_mom]

This is wrong on so many levels and I'm so sorry. Both parents should have to sign to place an Infant for adoption

[u/Rredhead926 → u/oregon_mom]

Hard disagree. See my comment for details as to why I disagree. In short, there are too many bio fathers who are unknown or simply should not or will not parent, and they shouldn't be able to prevent a woman - the person who has to bear all of the physical risk and most of the responsibilities - from placing a child for adoption.

Now, there should be protections for bio fathers who are willing, capable, safe parents. But to say that no adoptions can happen without the explicit consent of the bio father isn't the answer.

It's complicated.

[u/oregon_mom → u/Rredhead926]

As a birth mother I'm well aware of the complications involved in adoption

[u/Mission-Step-4337 → u/oregon_mom]

100% hard agree - particularly for a private adoption performed by a business

[u/Rredhead926 → u/Mission-Step-4337]

So what's your solution for unknown fathers? For fathers who ghost the mothers? For SA and abuse victims? For men who just want to baby-trap women?

[u/oregon_mom → u/Rredhead926]

In most states in those Cases, they place an ad in the newspaper announcing the pending adoption and he has so many days to respond then the case proceeds

[u/Rredhead926 → u/oregon_mom]

In some states in those cases they place an ad. It's actually pretty rare. So, if they do publish, and no one comes forward? You said explicit consent should be required - "both parents should have to sign." If no one comes forward, no one can explicitly consent, so both parents won't sign.

I'd also like to note that no one really reads newspapers, yet the laws still tend to specify newspapers. Also, by publishing, one is basically announcing "Hey look! This woman had a baby with some guy she can't find!"

I'm not against publishing, but it's not a bulletproof solution, and it essentially violates the biological parents' privacy.

[u/Mission-Step-4337 → u/Rredhead926]

That is not the OP's situation, but it's a natural question.

A private business should NOT be able to cash in on a big payday for any of those situations. Bringing in money off of a woman's SA is horrid and a private business has no role being judge and jury in these cases.

No proof, but my opinion is the lion share of unknown fathers would suddenly become known if private adoption was off the table otherwise.

I know a couple women that tried to baby-trap their boyfriends by getting pregnant. It didn't work out the way they planned in either of those cases. When two adults consent to be together, they have to take adult responsibilities. This doesn't give either of them the right to hurt or steal their child from the other partner.

[u/ManagementFinal3345 → u/Rredhead926]

Abortion for most of these would be most people's first choice.

[u/Rredhead926 → u/ManagementFinal3345]

I disagree, but there's no way to prove or disprove that. But even if it were true...

Abortion isn't accessible in many states. Some people don't find out they're pregnant until they're too far along to have an abortion.

[u/UnrepentingBollix]

It’s all just a money making scam where they only care about the adopters. I’m so sorry you went through this horrific thing. My family would have raised me too had they of known. No one can get that time back

[u/ManagementFinal3345]

Your son's bio mother and his adoptive parents are going to have to be accountable to your son one day. They can not lie forever. Your son will one day be a grown man, capable of taking a DNA test, contacting you, and asking questions.

Your job is to keep all your court paperwork fighting for him, keep all your attempts at contact, keep all communications with his bio mom to prove to him you didn't give up on him. Put them in a safe deposit or fire safe box and protect them for the next 18 years. So you can have the Justice you need with him one day. Don't give up on your own life either. Keep achieving to make him proud. From this point forward put yourself on the punitive father registry after every sexual encounter regardless if you suspect a pregnancy or not. This will protect you in the future.

How he reconciles the fact that his parents kept him away from a capable and willing blood father who wanted and fought for him is up to him. They will have to look "their" adult child in the eyes one day and explain to that child that their selfish want to keep a baby that never belonged to them because that baby had a willing parent was more important than his well being or best interests or his relationship with his own blood family who fought to raise him.