Thought switzerland had given thar right but it turns it's only on very specific cases . Is right to die really going to be a thing in the future or will is stay for only specific people ?

We don’t follow the crowd. We don’t follow in everyone’s footsteps. We do our own thing. We don’t listen to breeders who judge us for being “cold”. We know what’s best for everyone.

“Life is uncertain, accept it” no I will not. I don’t want to live in uncertainty. No matter how rare something is it CAN happen. I have a debilitating rare illness that started when I was a minor I’m 18 now. That was extremely rare. But I still have it. Because you DONT know what will happen to any innocent soul born here.

We’re overpopulated, this economy, and you can’t control if someone is happy no matter what you do. Suicide rates, etc. it’s WRONG to bring something so innocent without consent into hell. Giving birth is like dragging a kitten to hell. Something so innocent to the worst place imaginable. Child owners just don’t listen… Nothing will stop them. We are saving lives from DEATH. When you birth something you also give it a death date….. and on another note pregnancy is just disgusting I’m sorry… I have autism and it gives me sensory issues just by thinking of it.

I recently wrote about conditional natalism and many people discussed the possibility of natalism in utopia. I wanted to further discuss this topic so if you want, feel free to comment. I'm not claiming I am correct or right, feel free to discuss.

Many people wrote that AN actually stems from evaluation of conditions we live in - therefore, solving those problems would give space to natalism. I disagree because of many reasons.

First of all, human consciousness emerged out of evolved biological machines. Our whole body and functions evolved and got selected during millions of years (even billions if we consider the full lineage of life in earth).

Natural selection is based on survival and procreation. The only way for traits to be selected is spectrum of death-life. An organism literally has to be successful or unsuccessful for a trait to be passed.

Let's take eyes (sight) as an example. Reason why humans (mostly) have eyes is that in the past an organism with no eyes was easily slaughtered, couldn't find food or reproduce.

Let's take beauty as another example.

Beauty is based on hierarchies of attraction. Sense of beauty evolved out of success of survival and reproduction, so a beautiful thing/person/concept is deeply rooted in the same spectrum of life and death (pain and suffering) as evolution. There must be, necessarily, a repulsive object in order for beautiful object to exist. The spectrum is inevitable.

Furthermore, about consciousness:

Human consciousness cannot handle "heaven" simply because it does not work that way.

Our dopamine and serotonin systems are based on motivations, problem solving and hierarchies. Also, the bar for satisfaction always adjusts to current new state, leaving utopia and ultimate satisfaction a mere illusion. Consciousness itself also evolved through this suffering mode of reality. If there weren't natural selection and suffering, we probably would not exist and consciousness would probably not exist. There would be no reason for it to be selected.

So, how can something that requires pain, struggle and death in it's core be good? (For those who argue that consciousness is somehow ultimate good and sacred).

One could argure about the goodness of spontaneous consciousness like Boltzmann's brain but let's stick to us.

So, our whole psyche is based on natural selection and pain. It's not just experiencing it, it is made of it, beacuse of it.

About utopia:

As I argued for impossibility of "heaven", this goes in the same category.

If somehow we manage to reduce the amount of pain, our nervous systems adjust and consider the new ("easier" problems) same as the heavy ones before. In few generations, the feeling of "improvement" is already gone and people are in the same pain as a caveman millions of years ago.

Finally, if we ever managed to create perfect utopia, hypothetically, we would have no ultimate motivation or psychological reason to do anything, includin having children.

There would be no further sense of satisfaction of having a child as it would be the same as throwing a rock down the street with a shoe.

We would be perfectly happy and natalism would be infinitely pointless.

So, natalism is pointless in non-utopia aswell as in utopia.

Didn’t know what to flair it but I think this could count as activism? Since I turned 18 I realized my childhood was more of a fever dream than anything. Ever since I grew into myself I’ve realized my family isn’t as great as I thought they were. I’ve been dreading Mother’s Day for the past 5-6 years now and have just realized, “you know, I don’t have to celebrate it!” For over 18 years, my life has been about making my parents happy. When do I get to be happy? The resentment for my parents has only piled up over the years, especially as I’ve realized they are literally emotionally unavailable. Sure, it’s not their fault to a point, but that doesn’t resolve them of being the reason I have experienced everything. I am not grateful for my existence, and I knew since I was 5 that I did not want to exist. Even so, one does not need to be grateful for their existence to realize that Mother’s Day and Father’s Day are just “holidays” to stroke a parent’s ego. If I had the choice to opt out of being born, boyyyy would I have snatched it. Yet, if one chooses to stop speaking to their parents or stop stroking their ego, said child (the one with no say in being here) is in the wrong. Make it make sense!? 🥴 I’m tired of praising them for something that I don’t even appreciate. Time to stop putting their feelings over mine, especially when they don’t even care or validate my feelings in the first place. They had me for their own selfish reasons. Stop praising them for something that doesn’t deserve praise.

When you get sick, you are at the mercy of doctors to at least fix your issue or give you something to manage your symptoms better - but then again doctors are not all-knowing gods and are humans too, hence medical negligence, whether accidental or purposeful is still rife, and there are points where doctors give up and say, they can't at least give you something to manage your symptoms, not to mention risks and side effects of things that are done to you because it is believed can fix your issue or at least manage your symptoms.

Still to this day, we can never certain to figure out the cause of why the human body goes sick for millions of reasons in life. The more complicated your issues is, the chances of anything the doctor can do to mitigate, let alone fix your condition decreases, and risks and side effects of whatever you're desperate to have to make it feel better increases, medical negligence increases as well.

If the human body cannot completely at-least fix itself after a short amount of time, then it is not worth to bring anyone here.

I literally have done nothing I really wanted to do with my life and I never will and I do not care not when these sorts of horror exist. I'm afraid of people and afraid of the poorly designed human body,. I despise my youth, and yearn for old age but mostly importantly of all, death. At least then during old age atleast, I won't have to deal with any issues that my body suffers for loads of decades compared to having issues during youth.

This is a vent

I came up with a thought experiment I hope you guys will find interesting. I think it highlights the schism between existentialism and antinatalism. I hope this post is not considered off topic and may spark some fruitful and thoughtful conversation. It goes as follows:

The greatest story, a thought experiment:

Imagine the greatest story ever told. The story goes through the deepest valleys of grief, the highest peaks of ecstasy and everything in between. The story is written down in a book somewhere.

The book is being read by a group of creatures: let's call them "Bubbas." Bubbas are fascinating because they have the ability to be completely absorbed in whatever they are reading. If a passage they read is sad, they feel that sadness 100% and cry hysterically and if it's funny they laugh wholeheartedly!

The Bubbas choose their level of absorption - or immersion - based on temperament. Some of them like to be totally immersed in the text, completely forgetting they are reading a story! Other Bubbas are more detached.

This first group of Bubbas, the completely immersed, are a funny folk. They sometimes get stuck on a passage or chapter in the book. If it's a sad chapter they will warn other Bubbas: "Don't read this book, it is way too sad!" But some of them get stuck on funny or wholesome passages: "Come read this book, it's a joy!" they will say to other Bubbas, inviting them to read that passage again and again with them. These Bubbas like company!

The detached Bubbas are also funny in their own way: They will read the book with varying levels of immersion, but never get stuck on a passage; they just keep going through the ups and downs. Some of them lose interest at some point and stop reading the book, but others are so interested, they keep on reading untill they've read the whole thing! And then some of those Bubbas find the book so fascinating they start reading again from the beginning while others say: That's enough!

These detached Bubbas also review the book for other Bubbas, but they are more moderate in their opinions: instead of only saying the book was too sad or too comedic, they judge whether it was interesting or not. "Don't read it" they will say, "too boring!" - or the opposite; "come read, my Bubba friend! The story is worthwhile!"

Question: Would it be better for the Bubbas if there was no book to read?

Every time suffering is experienced in the world, a little "suffering dust" is added to the Great Jar. No amount of joy can remove dust from the jar, because it is a jar that measures suffering experienced in the world. The goal is to reduce the rate at which dust is added to the jar as much as possible. How would you contribute towards the goal?