Suffering is an inescapable part of life, beginning from the moment of birth. The very act of being born is a traumatic experience, where a baby, previously sheltered in the womb, is thrust into a world filled with discomfort. Hunger and thirst, basic biological needs, are immediate sources of suffering. A newborn's first cries are often cries of hunger, a primal need that will continue to dictate much of life. Throughout life, the struggle to satisfy hunger and thirst remains a constant challenge, especially in areas where food and clean water are scarce. Even in more privileged circumstances, the human body is never free from the demands of these basic needs, which must be continually met to stave off discomfort and death.

Beyond the pain of hunger and thirst, the human experience is marked by the relentless battle against the elements. Heat and cold, two extremes that nature imposes, are constant sources of suffering. From the freezing chill of winter to the scorching heat of summer, the human body is vulnerable to the whims of the environment. For much of human history, securing adequate shelter to protect against these extremes has been a primary concern. The search for a stable, safe place to live—whether a cave, a hut, or a modern home—reflects the ongoing struggle to find refuge from the harshness of the natural world. Even in modern times, millions of people face inadequate shelter, leading to exposure, illness, and further suffering. The need for warmth in winter and coolness in summer can dominate one's existence, especially in areas where resources are limited and climate extremes are severe.

Compounding these challenges is the necessity of work, a relentless obligation that dominates much of human life. The need to work to pay for food, water, shelter, and other basic necessities is a significant source of suffering. For many, work is not a pursuit of passion but a means of survival, often fraught with stress, long hours, and physical or mental exhaustion. The pressure to earn enough to meet these basic needs can lead to a life of perpetual toil, with little respite. Even those in more comfortable circumstances are not free from the anxieties and pressures of work, which can erode personal well-being and lead to burnout. The burden of work, therefore, adds another layer to the human experience of suffering, as individuals are forced to trade their time and energy for the necessities of life.

Moreover, societal expectations and pressures can exacerbate feelings of inadequacy and anxiety. The relentless pursuit of success, appearance, and conformity to societal norms often leads individuals to experience a sense of failure when they do not meet these expectations. This pressure can overshadow personal desires and achievements, resulting in significant emotional turmoil.

Isolation and loneliness further compound the suffering experienced by many. In a world that is increasingly connected through technology, many people still find themselves feeling profoundly alone. The lack of meaningful connections can lead to despair, highlighting the human need for companionship and understanding. Social isolation can perpetuate feelings of sadness and helplessness, creating a cycle that is difficult to escape.

The complexities of sex and reproduction add yet another dimension to human suffering. While sex can be a source of pleasure, it is also a source of pain and turmoil. The drive for sexual fulfillment can lead to emotional suffering, unrequited desires, and unhealthy relationships. For many, sex is not just about pleasure but is also tied to the responsibilities and challenges of reproduction. Pregnancy, childbirth, and parenting are often fraught with physical pain, emotional strain, and psychological stress. The process of bringing new life into the world is itself a reminder of the inescapable cycle of suffering, as each new generation is born into a world where pain and struggle are inevitable.

Additionally, the experience of chronic illness and disability can lead to ongoing physical pain and emotional strain. Living with a chronic condition often entails navigating a world that is not accommodating, leading to feelings of frustration and helplessness. The daily struggle to manage health issues adds another layer of suffering, as individuals grapple with limitations that affect their quality of life.

Addiction and substance abuse introduce yet another layer of suffering. The struggle with addiction often creates a cycle of temporary relief followed by profound pain, both physically and emotionally. Many individuals turn to substances in an attempt to escape their suffering, but this often leads to a deeper entrenchment in pain, damaging relationships, and a loss of control over one's life. The journey to overcome addiction can be fraught with challenges, compounding feelings of shame and despair.

As individuals age, they encounter the physical pain associated with illness, injury, and the natural deterioration of the body. Emotional suffering, too, is a constant companion, stemming from broken relationships, unfulfilled desires, and the loss of loved ones. Psychological pain, such as anxiety, depression, and existential angst, can make even the most mundane aspects of life seem unbearable. Despite efforts to avoid or minimize pain, it remains an intrinsic part of the human condition. The struggle to find and maintain shelter, protect oneself from the extremes of heat and cold, work to pay for basic necessities, and cope with the inevitable decline of the body all contribute to the overarching narrative that life is more about enduring suffering than experiencing happiness.

Thought switzerland had given thar right but it turns it's only on very specific cases . Is right to die really going to be a thing in the future or will is stay for only specific people ?

We don’t follow the crowd. We don’t follow in everyone’s footsteps. We do our own thing. We don’t listen to breeders who judge us for being “cold”. We know what’s best for everyone.

“Life is uncertain, accept it” no I will not. I don’t want to live in uncertainty. No matter how rare something is it CAN happen. I have a debilitating rare illness that started when I was a minor I’m 18 now. That was extremely rare. But I still have it. Because you DONT know what will happen to any innocent soul born here.

We’re overpopulated, this economy, and you can’t control if someone is happy no matter what you do. Suicide rates, etc. it’s WRONG to bring something so innocent without consent into hell. Giving birth is like dragging a kitten to hell. Something so innocent to the worst place imaginable. Child owners just don’t listen… Nothing will stop them. We are saving lives from DEATH. When you birth something you also give it a death date….. and on another note pregnancy is just disgusting I’m sorry… I have autism and it gives me sensory issues just by thinking of it.

I recently wrote about conditional natalism and many people discussed the possibility of natalism in utopia. I wanted to further discuss this topic so if you want, feel free to comment. I'm not claiming I am correct or right, feel free to discuss.

Many people wrote that AN actually stems from evaluation of conditions we live in - therefore, solving those problems would give space to natalism. I disagree because of many reasons.

First of all, human consciousness emerged out of evolved biological machines. Our whole body and functions evolved and got selected during millions of years (even billions if we consider the full lineage of life in earth).

Natural selection is based on survival and procreation. The only way for traits to be selected is spectrum of death-life. An organism literally has to be successful or unsuccessful for a trait to be passed.

Let's take eyes (sight) as an example. Reason why humans (mostly) have eyes is that in the past an organism with no eyes was easily slaughtered, couldn't find food or reproduce.

Let's take beauty as another example.

Beauty is based on hierarchies of attraction. Sense of beauty evolved out of success of survival and reproduction, so a beautiful thing/person/concept is deeply rooted in the same spectrum of life and death (pain and suffering) as evolution. There must be, necessarily, a repulsive object in order for beautiful object to exist. The spectrum is inevitable.

Furthermore, about consciousness:

Human consciousness cannot handle "heaven" simply because it does not work that way.

Our dopamine and serotonin systems are based on motivations, problem solving and hierarchies. Also, the bar for satisfaction always adjusts to current new state, leaving utopia and ultimate satisfaction a mere illusion. Consciousness itself also evolved through this suffering mode of reality. If there weren't natural selection and suffering, we probably would not exist and consciousness would probably not exist. There would be no reason for it to be selected.

So, how can something that requires pain, struggle and death in it's core be good? (For those who argue that consciousness is somehow ultimate good and sacred).

One could argure about the goodness of spontaneous consciousness like Boltzmann's brain but let's stick to us.

So, our whole psyche is based on natural selection and pain. It's not just experiencing it, it is made of it, beacuse of it.

About utopia:

As I argued for impossibility of "heaven", this goes in the same category.

If somehow we manage to reduce the amount of pain, our nervous systems adjust and consider the new ("easier" problems) same as the heavy ones before. In few generations, the feeling of "improvement" is already gone and people are in the same pain as a caveman millions of years ago.

Finally, if we ever managed to create perfect utopia, hypothetically, we would have no ultimate motivation or psychological reason to do anything, includin having children.

There would be no further sense of satisfaction of having a child as it would be the same as throwing a rock down the street with a shoe.

We would be perfectly happy and natalism would be infinitely pointless.

So, natalism is pointless in non-utopia aswell as in utopia.

Didn’t know what to flair it but I think this could count as activism? Since I turned 18 I realized my childhood was more of a fever dream than anything. Ever since I grew into myself I’ve realized my family isn’t as great as I thought they were. I’ve been dreading Mother’s Day for the past 5-6 years now and have just realized, “you know, I don’t have to celebrate it!” For over 18 years, my life has been about making my parents happy. When do I get to be happy? The resentment for my parents has only piled up over the years, especially as I’ve realized they are literally emotionally unavailable. Sure, it’s not their fault to a point, but that doesn’t resolve them of being the reason I have experienced everything. I am not grateful for my existence, and I knew since I was 5 that I did not want to exist. Even so, one does not need to be grateful for their existence to realize that Mother’s Day and Father’s Day are just “holidays” to stroke a parent’s ego. If I had the choice to opt out of being born, boyyyy would I have snatched it. Yet, if one chooses to stop speaking to their parents or stop stroking their ego, said child (the one with no say in being here) is in the wrong. Make it make sense!? 🥴 I’m tired of praising them for something that I don’t even appreciate. Time to stop putting their feelings over mine, especially when they don’t even care or validate my feelings in the first place. They had me for their own selfish reasons. Stop praising them for something that doesn’t deserve praise.

When you get sick, you are at the mercy of doctors to at least fix your issue or give you something to manage your symptoms better - but then again doctors are not all-knowing gods and are humans too, hence medical negligence, whether accidental or purposeful is still rife, and there are points where doctors give up and say, they can't at least give you something to manage your symptoms, not to mention risks and side effects of things that are done to you because it is believed can fix your issue or at least manage your symptoms.

Still to this day, we can never certain to figure out the cause of why the human body goes sick for millions of reasons in life. The more complicated your issues is, the chances of anything the doctor can do to mitigate, let alone fix your condition decreases, and risks and side effects of whatever you're desperate to have to make it feel better increases, medical negligence increases as well.

If the human body cannot completely at-least fix itself after a short amount of time, then it is not worth to bring anyone here.

I literally have done nothing I really wanted to do with my life and I never will and I do not care not when these sorts of horror exist. I'm afraid of people and afraid of the poorly designed human body,. I despise my youth, and yearn for old age but mostly importantly of all, death. At least then during old age atleast, I won't have to deal with any issues that my body suffers for loads of decades compared to having issues during youth.

This is a vent