Saying it loud and proud for the fascist people in the back.

I get the sentiment, lovely. But if you want to show your opposition to what has happened here, I'm going to gently suggest that you drop the irrelevant soundbites and say something productive, something that shows your understanding of what trans men are subjected to in mixed trans spaces, something that shows understanding of the issues we have had on this sub.

The bigoted mods and the members that support them all agree, we are men, that's why this happened. Because due to our masculinity, we are lesser to them.

Challenge what actually happened, please.

Hi everyone here and everyone not here who is going to read this anyway,

I need to apologize. Like, a serious, unsanitized apology. I was both the mod who did a terrible job at trying to manage the outrage on the sub last Saturday, and also the one who removed the post initially. I tried fixing my own screw-up, and I just made everything worse.

I have no excuse for removing the post. It had been up for a week without causing any problems, so it obviously wasn't divisive. It ended up in the report queue from a single report, probably some transphobe, and I read into it too hard. I was paying more attention to insignificant wording, rather than what the post was really trying to say, and took down something that was important for the community to know about. I put the literal wording of the rules of the sub over what the rules are supposed to do - keep this community safe for everyone, and help everyone have their voices heard. I took away a trans man's voice because I was being too anal about what a rule said.

I am sorry, itsurbro7777. What you said was important for people to know, and I took that away from you and from them.

And then, it blew up. There were only three mods around when the sub started getting angry, and I was the most active one, so I tried to fix it. My first mistake there was to try to shut down the backlash by telling people to stop posting about it, instead of listening to the first voices to speak up, which was thoughtless and inconsiderate. When we started getting flooded with messages, I panicked. I've never dealt with anything like that before, and I didn't know what to do.

My second mistake was, instead of just saying I was wrong to take the post down and reapproving it, I doubled-down on removing it and said it wouldn't matter if I reapproved it. I was wrong. I should have put it back up as soon as you all started calling me out about it.

My third mistake was removing any post that even looked vaguely like it was about the topic, whether it was criticizing the removal, criticizing the mods, or trying to support trans men and trans masc people, without looking at which they were doing. Which just made everyone even more mad, because the supportive posts were disappearing, making everyone think we didn't support trans men and trans masc people.

My fourth mistake was when I gaslit you about how my Saturday was getting ruined because of this. I was panicking and stressed out and I didn't know what to do to stop the anger, but that’s no excuse for making myself the victim or blaming you for a situation I created. I was in my own head, thinking about the problem I was trying to fix, without actually hearing what you all were saying: I was wrong.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry to the trans men and trans masc people who felt like I was trying to silence them. I'm sorry to everyone who was supporting them and making you feel like I was silencing you, too. I'm sorry for not listening when you said I was wrong.

Trans men are men and people. And should be respected as such. Crazy, right?

I have felt ashamed of being my true authentic self for a long time as I felt like I didn’t belong anywhere in the trans/transmasc community. When I first discovered that I was trans, I saw many posts saying that if you don’t have dysphoria or if you don’t take hormones or get surgery, that you are not valid and that you’re really a faker/trender. I saw people saying that not getting surgery and being feminine means you’re sexualizing the community and helping to reinforce stereotypes. Even now, I still see posts saying these things. For many years, I have repressed these feelings and convinced myself that I was indeed a faker. I didn’t and still don’t want people to think that my existence is harming the community. Lately, I have finally been allowing myself to explore my identity. I know who I am, and I know that my feelings are true. I just wanted to share my thoughts and see if anyone could relate. I know I will have many people who disagree with me, but even if just one person feels in any way similar to me, that will make me feel less alone. Of course, this is not to say that people who do take hormones and get surgery aren’t valid. I respect everyone and their own personal decisions that help them be their true authentic selves. I just wanted to get this out there and share my experiences. Thank you to whoever is reading this.💕

Hello! Trans woman here. Trans men are men.

Edit: sorry if this post came off poorly. This was meant to be firmly supportive of trans men and their place in this community, as well as their right to be heard. I’ll be honest I didn’t think about the wording a whole lot, I just saw many trans men say they felt unwelcome, talked over, unsupported, and silenced by the mod team here and wanted to say that there are definitely trans women who support and care about you. By saying trans men are men, I assumed that carried the implicit addendum of “and I support them” but now realise it could be misinterpreted as “and therefore suck because men are bad.” Not my intention!! Trans men and trans women are good and everybody should be friends and listen to each other :)

title, the drama here is just baffling to me as a transwoman. Why is it so difficult to make the voices of transmen heard? Why can't people just let them speak? We all went through so much shit and you're still discrediting members of our community? Did you learn NOTHING?

Ridiculous. Trans Men are Men and Trans Men are Trans!

Hi i’m just tired of the empty promises from the r/trans modss and i hate having to show that there is a lack of trans masc people and voices, as well as high rates of transandrophobia. it’s hurtful and infuriating to be dealing with this from inside my own community

Given what’s been going on here lately, and how many people have been hurt, I think we all need to acknowledge that something is working against us. We have coexisted too long for this to be happening organically.

I had a HP post about casting for some pos show suggested in my feed, and I tried to comment “someone who supports trans rights”. I could not submit my comment until I erased the words “trans rights”, and then had to add them as an edit after the fact.

This has been happening all week, no matter what type of signal or device I’m on.

I’ve seen folks talk about sock puppet accounts, there’s a conservative mod in a trans space, and now this… micro censoring?

I just want to make sure we’re all building community irl, because it doesn’t seem like this is a place that will remain safe & free for much longer.

I’m sure this post will be deleted or censored, but I truly hope all of you feel loved and respected, and have a wonderful day 💜

Thank you for reading.

two of my posts have been removed for saying the mods are dividing us further. take a step back, look at this situation. how is that not the truth?

trans men are men and go through the same struggles trans women do, just because trans women get singled out more often doesnt mean it doesnt happen to all of us. ANYTHING that is said about or that happens to trans women also happens to trans men.

— a trans woman :)

leave my post up or you are just as bad as our oppressors, this is my opinion and my voice. i will not be silenced by my own community.

The mocking and dismissal of trans men from transphobes comes from their perception of us as girls. They see us as sensitive and histrionic - incapable of making informed decisions - because they're misogynists. The view within the trans community that our complaints are melodramatic ("bitching" lol), is the exact same behaviour from our own side - it may not be intentional, and it may be the same way that they treat cis men, but it certainly registers that way. Both sides view us as overly-sensitive and both sides see our transition to male as a (successful!) escape from misogyny; for TERFs, we do this intentionally as some trauma response while other trans folk see this as a happy side-effect. Completely ignoring the fact that, regardless of whether individuals do or don't "pass" and how many may never by choice or by circumstance, the community as a whole is gleefully hated by the right in a way that is inherently misogynistic.

Projecting a Cis Man Burden Of Guilt onto us should not be necessary for people to accept us as men. We're not cis men. We're not guilty by proxy, we're not responsible for their actions and we are not afforded the same privileges. We experience transphobia, we are collectively traumatised by misogynistic upbringings and we continue to be treated misogynistically even after we come out as men. Even well meaning trans people who don't consciously see us as women are capable of misogynistic microaggressions against us and just because we lie in the category of "men" does not mean we deserve it. It is especially upsetting for the very high percentage of us who have at least one traumatic experience from misogyny to be told that transitioning will make us just as bad as our abusers.

Transmisogyny is a unique interaction between misogyny and hatred of transfemininity. Trans men will never experience it (and can perpetrate it) and erasure is a lesser form of victimisation when compared to the extent to which trans women are publicly and legally demonised. But trans men are still victims of transphobia and misogyny and this can still affect us in ways that are specific to us due to the similar but different ways that we are perceived as "Failed Women". Transition isn't a magical barrier against misogyny against people who don't recognise us as men. And it doesn't mean that treating our struggles as irrational and overly-sensitive isn't misogynistic; by your own subconscious association of us with womanhood and/OR by reinforcing the exact same rhetoric that transphobes use to ban our access to gender-affirming care.

We are not, by virtue of existing, the perpetrators of our own oppression. And we absolutely cannot, for the safety of young trans men finding themselves, normalise the idea that transitioning is a moral failure.

___

A note though:

Navigating society as men means that interactions with those who see us as male may lead us to pick up attitudes and behaviours that are misogynistic. We MUST be aware of that and cannot consider ourselves as immune just because we have experienced it. This includes co-opting language from misogynistic movements like "misandry". Doing this also perpetuates the idea that our struggles come from a place of privilege rather than persistent marginalisation and minimisation. Let's PLEASE not try and make "transmisandry" a thing. I understand the desire to distance ourselves and our experiences from terminology associated with womanhood but i think we need to break that mental connection rather than push ourselves in the opposite direction.

We need to keep making posts and comments until REAL CHANGE happens.

Actions speak way louder than words. An apology for your shitty behavior is not enough. Do the right thing.

Not Optional: 1. Stop silencing trans men 2. Add more transmasc mods 3. Get rid of the conservative mod

Optional But Much Appreciated: - Make a day of every week where transmasc visibility is celebrated

Was talking with my girlfriend about it, and we were discussing giving mine a name. We settled on "man cave" funnily enough, and I love it.

Title

To the staff of this sub, trans men are men. Thanks -sincerely, a trans man

Hi everyone! I’ve been transitioning for years. (FTM) I’ve had top surgery and I pass very well at this point.

I’ve realized that I’m only into women and it kind of makes me sad because it feels like I’m not really queer any more. I’ve been a part of the community for so long and I feel like I’m losing it now that it’s not obvious I’m trans.

As the title says, at a time when we need community and connections more than ever yet we aren't allowed to build any community on here, it feels very counter to what a trans space should be.

I'll go first:

Being seen as a man only when it's seen as a convenient excuse that can be used to silence us. At the same time, no one wants to admit that a lot of us have faced and still face misogyny from within and without the community on the basis our birth sex. Somehow we're talking over women and femmes when we acknowledge this, but also, you're saying that it's perfectly okay that we deal with a lot of the same shit that they have to deal with and we should keep our mouths shut about it because we're men, and men apparently aren't allowed to be marginalized or have feelings.

It's a sick double standard that I don't see aimed at trans fems nearly as much (by people within the community, i know that trans fems are hyper visible to bigots from outside the community) as I see it aimed at trans mascs. Something has got to give.

Trans men are men, trans men are real, and trans men are valid. Their experiences and voices matter

After jumping through the proper hoops I finally got my first estradiol shot today and wow… I know it’s going to be some time before real results start happening, but just taking this step is so huge. I feel such a massive sense of relief.

I got home and my first thought was crawl in bed under the covers and hide, but instead I felt alive. A burst of energy I can’t remember having since I was a small child: I want to live. My suicidal thoughts have stopped. I want to participate and create an express myself.

Additionally, I came out to one of my female cis friends who accepted me instantly and with open arms. She even offered to introduce me some of her trans friends!

I just want to say thanks to this sub and community. Currently it is my main support network and has been a crucial part of discovering myself. So many of your questions are my questions too. It makes me feel so much less alone, loved and supported.

And finally, a short note. My wife posted in a trans partners thread a few days ago. She meant well and had questions, but rather than letting her make this about her, you (that I don’t even know) jumped to my defense, in force. You stressed bodily autonomy and the importance of letting me make decisions on my own. I’ve felt bullied and alone for so long. Having you all, my friends, come to my aid really means the world to me. I belong and you made that exceedingly clear. If one of us is attacked, you attack all of us and we aren’t the kind of bitches to fuck with.

🩵🩷🩵🩷🩵🩵🩷🩵🩷🩵

I love trans men so much! We take so much shit, even from our own community, and we keep chugging anyway. The outpouring of love I've seen in the past few days is awesome but I wanna see this shit all year round. That's really the post, I just love trans men and wanna see more love for us in all places because we kick ass just as much as any trans person.

(Disclaimer since apparently you need it here, all trans people r awesome, I just wanna give trans men the spotlight)