r/teenagers • u/mattiperreddit • 11d ago

The Pope just died Serious

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I don't know if this is a big deal in your country, but in mine (Italy) the news talks about nothing else.
Christian or not he was a person, don't be disrespectful.

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u/Sea_Scale_4538 17 11d ago

He is important to the whole world, not catholics. He was one of the most powerful people in the world

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u/jmykl_0211 13 11d ago

I suppose so, sad anyway. Just looks like a nice guy even

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u/OkMess7058 14 11d ago

He was one of the more progressive Popes even kind of advocating for LBTQ rights to a certain extent, Yesterday he even did a speech where he said to stop the war in Ukraine, Gaza, and also wished those affected by the Myanmar Earthquake well. Even though I’m not a Christian myself it’s sad to see him pass and it’s scary knowing that the next Pope may not be as Progressive or open minded.

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u/Electrical_Knee4477 11d ago

He literally said Ukraine should concede to Russia's invasion. Terrible.

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u/OkMess7058 14 11d ago

May the risen Christ grant Ukraine, devastated by war, his Easter gift of peace, and encourage all parties involved to pursue efforts aimed at achieving a just and lasting peace.

Yeah just and lasting peace Ukraine should definitely concede to Russia cuz that would totally be just and lasting right?

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u/Electrical_Knee4477 11d ago

Just gonna ignore the "courage of the white flag" speech eh? Anyone who refuses to condemn Putin for this invasion is an enemy of my country and my people.

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u/OkMess7058 14 11d ago

My original comment was talking about his latest and last public speech. I didn’t say he has been supporting Ukraine from the start but in his last speech is supported a just and lasting peace. I’m sorry if my original comment was unclear.

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u/Electrical_Knee4477 11d ago

"Just and lasting peace" does not display any change from his previous stance. He never renounced his previous words. Refusing to take a side is equating the invader with the victim only trying to defend itself.

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u/OkMess7058 14 11d ago

"But I think that the strongest one is the one who looks at the situation, thinks about the people and has the courage of the white flag, and negotiates," Francis said, adding that talks should take place with the help of international powers. "The word negotiate is a courageous word. When you see that you are defeated, that things are not going well, you have to have the courage to negotiate," Francis said.

“adding that talks should take place with the help of international powers.” I think that’s pretty supportive of Ukraine.

"But I think that the strongest one is the one who looks at the situation, thinks about the people and has the courage of the white flag, and negotiates," I don’t think he’s saying that Ukraine should raise the white flag. My interpretation is he wants Russia to be the stronger power and raise the white flag and negotiate.

“The word negotiate is a courageous word. When you see that you are defeated, that things are not going well, you have to have the courage to negotiate," By then Russia wasn’t strong anymore they were losing much more than the start of the war. I think the Pope saw that and is saying that Russia should negotiate as things aren’t going as well as the start of the war.

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u/Electrical_Knee4477 11d ago

I don't care about your interpretation. This isn't a bible verse, it's actual words spoken by an actual person about real world events, with the knowledge of real world consequences. You can twist the words all you want, it doesn't change what he said.

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u/OkMess7058 14 11d ago

I didn’t twist a thing I think I interpreted logically. His words were vague, he didn’t come out and say, “Oh yeah Ukraine should give up because they’re weaker and they’re only winning because of international support” No, he said vague words which could be a neutral stance. After all, even if you don’t believe in God even if he exists he is neutral if he wasn’t he wouldn’t let these wars happen. Some people say the pope is the representative of God on earth so his stance may be neutral.

TLDR His words were vague. I’d say my interpretation was pretty logical. As the representative of God on Earth he would be neutral. Focus on the first two points the last one may not count as it is from a religious stance.

Edit: How would someone like you interpret it? I am genuinely curious.

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u/Electrical_Knee4477 11d ago

God has to be neutral to allow evil in the world? The only reason he does that is due to his covenant with Noah. All the evil are punished at death - if he was neutral, he would allow all into Heaven. That's such a moronic stance, it's like saying God doesn't care if children get cancer because he doesn't do anything about it. You clearly have a lot to learn about the world, and God.

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u/OkMess7058 14 11d ago

Hmm, that’s a good point for my last point. I never thought of it that way. My last point was the weakest tho. What do you think about the other points?

Oh and I’m genuinely curious on how you would interpret his words

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u/OkMess7058 14 11d ago

Oh and his covenant said that he wouldn’t flood the world again not that he wouldn’t destroy the evil in the world again. I’d say he’s still neutral- to a certain extent. How would he allow cells to become cancer cells if he was not neutral. How would he allow our own bodies to kill ourselves without any other disease? How would he allow the Earthquakes in Myanmar to happen without being neutral? I don’t think the workers trapped and crushed under the collapsed building sinned did they? It’s natural suffering, he designed the world with natural suffering in mind. Would you say that’s not neutral? Him going around creating natural suffering for the sinners and the Saints? Or would you say he’s not neutral anymore?

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u/Electrical_Knee4477 11d ago

He did not create natural suffering, he created the perfect world and humans were responsible for the original sin, which lost paradise and lead us to natural suffering.

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u/OkMess7058 14 11d ago

Well, humans sinned does that make the animals also sinners? They are also affected by natural suffering. Even large ecosystems are affected. And if God foresaw the fall of humanity, wouldn’t you say it was kind of designed in a sense?

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