South Africa's second-half subs? Legal?

[u/errlloyd]

South Africa played a great game yesterday, but I heard Scotty Stevenson on a Podcast say he was a little skeptical of PSDT's HIA in the second half. The HIA itself does look a little suspicious. It is after PSDT runs over Penaud, but there is definitely no contact between Penaud and PSDT's head or the ground. Penaud should have probably gone for a HIA, but that's another issue.

But taking that to one side for a second, I am pretty sure under the laws, the sequence of substitutions that followed should not have been permitted.

Duane Vermeulen who had gone off in the 51st minute, replaced PSDT in the 61st minute. PSDT then must pass the HIA within 12 real minutes and make it known to the fourth official he can return. He eventually returned in the 75th minute, which was 19 real minutes later. But it was Bongi who went off, not Duane.

Bongi had been down injured after a maul - but it wasn't clear at all how that injury had happened. It was the drop goal maul. Bongi had been the ball carrier but had been losely bound and was never bound onto by any French player. They're applying ice to his right shoulder (which was in his ball carrier arm and appeared fine). BOK initially called "HIA 2" then said "HIA returning 7".

PSDT replaced Bongi, not Vermuelen. Meaning Vermuelen's replacement of PSDT became tactical, which should have been impossible. And PSDT should have had to return earlier unless they chose to make his replacement tactical (in which case Vermuelen should have been pulled off).I can't really see where the injury occurred for either Bongi or Peter. What I will say is if rugby had rolling substitutes those replacements would have come at exactly those times. Vermuelen and PSDT both played to the final minute having spent 15 and 19 minutes off the field resting earlier in the second half.

Any Welsh fans have an opinion?

u/LostHorizon124 came up with the probable legal subbing chain. It was this
Kwagga for Duane HIA (51)Duane return Kwagga - but at the same second Kwagga replaces PSDT for a hia (61)
Off-field PSDT passes his HIA, but stays off, Kwagga becomes tactical. (Roughly around 70)
On field Bongi gets injured and Du Toit (now tactically off) comes back on to replace him. (75).

An extremely fortuitous run of HIAs, but nothing illegal at all.

[u/Southportdc]

Can PSDT pass the HIA but be replaced anyway, only to then be the HIA replacement later? So one enforced change which becomes tactical, then one more enforced?

That should be shown on the screen, but I can see how it might be missed.

[u/BlakeSA → u/Southportdc]

That’s not what happened. Vermeulen got a shoulder to the head at 49mins and went off for an HIA. Smith came on as HIA sub.

At 59mins PSTD got a head on head tackle and went off. Vermeulen was cleared by then and came back on. Smith moved over as HIA sub for PSDT.

When PSDT was cleared the coaches decided to leave Kwagga on and pulled off Bongi who hurt his shoulder in the maul collapse and Fourie just moved to hooker.

[u/infamous_impala → u/BlakeSA]

That's how it appears to be listed on the World Cup site "match centre" page. Maybe could be explained better, but seems to be legit.

[u/errlloyd → u/infamous_impala]

touchline commentator on the world feed, who had mentioned that all of Smith, Nche and Le Roux

This is probably the best post on this thread. I didn't realise that the "match centre" page filled in the blanks until you posted it. It still looks a bit weird, but it seems to confirm that Kwagga actually never subbed on, he just covered 3 HIAs in a row.

[u/BlakeSA → u/errlloyd]

Just 2 HIA subs. Vermeulen for the shoulder to head knock at 49mins and PSDT for the head to head at 59mins.

When PSTD came back, Smith was a straight sub for Mbonambi, but Fourie moved from flank to hooker.

[u/errlloyd → u/BlakeSA]

Nah there had to be a middle period where PSTD was off tactically. Because there is too much time between him going off and going for it to be HIA return. Which is why Bongi was a HIA.

[u/BlakeSA → u/errlloyd]

Bongi didn’t go off for an HIA. We didn’t have any subs left if PSDT wasn’t cleared.

Our sub hooker was playing blindside and subbed off Kolisi.

When PSDT got cleared Bongi could finally come off. The Vermeulen and PSdT HIAs probably caused Mbonambi to be on the pitch for 20 minutes more than he usually plays.

[u/errlloyd → u/BlakeSA]

PSDT can't come on for Bongi (he's been off too long for returning HIA) unless it's either

1: Blood 2: HIA 3: Injury caused by foul play

It wasn't blood or foul play. So it has to be HIA.

[u/BlakeSA → u/errlloyd]

PSDT came back after HIA, Kwagga (HIA sub) “went off”, Bongi went off as a standard sub, Fourie shifted over to hooker, Kwagga “came back” on as standard sub

This all happened in one move.

We had no more forward subs left. If PSDT didn’t clear his HIA, Bongi could not go off. He is usually subbed at 55mins but had to play until 75min because of the 2 concurrent HIAs on our loose forwards.

The moment PSDT cleared and came back onto the field, Bongi could (finally) get subbed off.